Piling On Dick Durbin

[dogday]

Those of us who have read accounts of the gulag or of the interrogation methods of the Nazis and similar barbaric regimes are familiar with the infinite varieties of torture. Maybe for that reason I did not feel it was anything of a stretch for Sen. Dick Durbin to refer to those regimes when reciting what an FBI agent had seen at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba: detainees "chained hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor, with no chair, food or water," or deprived of a bathroom, or kept in extreme heat or cold. One was found "almost unconscious on the floor, with a pile of hair next him. He had apparently been literally pulling his hair out." Whatever that is, it is not America.

This was Durbin's point. He was right, although not necessarily politically prudent or elegant, when he said that if you did not know these descriptions came from an FBI agent, you "would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime . . . that had no concern for human beings." I certainly might have thought so -- although, in general, these regimes were capable of far worse than that, and Durbin should not have said "most certainly." A "possibly" would have done just fine.

Still, Durbin is not being faulted for a lack of nuance. He has instead come under vitriolic attack by Republicans who would have you think that the Democrat from Illinois likened America to the Soviet Union or the American military to Nazi Germany or disparaged the military in its entirety. In the name of our armed forces, Virginia Sen. John W. Warner asked for an apology. Newt Gingrich, the former Republican speaker of the House, called for Durbin to be censured by the Senate. That would be a more severe penalty than that accorded Sen. Trent Lott (R-Miss.) for praising the late Strom Thurmond's racist 1948 presidential campaign.

Bill Frist, the Republican leader of the Senate, also called on Durbin to apologize -- although he himself did nothing of the sort when his videotaped patient, Terri Schiavo, turned out to be horribly brain damaged and not, as he suggested to the Senate, potentially treatable. Frist has lost the ability to blush, but not to mischaracterize. He said Durbin "called Guantanamo a death camp" -- words that do not appear in the text.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/20/AR2005062001175.html

[seabeyond]

1. durbin needs to demand an apology for the misrepresentation

of what he said from the right, from media, from republicans

[Conker]

4. They are the ones who should appologize.

Not Durbin.

[seabeyond]

6. apologize for lying in outrage what durbin says

apologize for running prison to allow the torture
apologize to the soldiers for not being more responsible leaders
apologize to iraqi's for doing this to their people
apologize to the men women and children they raped

yep....they are the ones that owe apology

[fooj]

2. I'm still waiting on an apology from those senators

who REFUSED to sign the lynching amendment...talk about DISGUSTING BEHAVIOR!

peace.

[AX10]

3. I'm still waiting for an apology for the "pro-lynching" Senators...

who all happen to be the Repubs that are assaulting Durbin!

[stanwyck]

5. Pity this co-worker of mine

she was stuck in horrible traffic here in Atlanta yesterday (on I-85) so she was desperately trying to find out on the radio what had happened so she could devise an exit strategy. That meant listening to Neal Boortz (he's on a supposed "news" -- traffice report -- station). And, of course, Neal and his brain-dead listeners were all frothed up about Durbin's comments. It's never the real issue with these folks. It's not about whether Dubya avoided his military service (which he most assuredly did), it's about whether Dan Rather was using copies for his report. Not the validity of the report. And it's not about the complicated reality of Gitmo. It's about Durbin's rhetoric.
Is it because these issues are too complex for conservatives? Why can't they address the meat of the issue? Are we acting in accordance with America's ethical and moral traditions? Are we eliciting valuable information? Are the people being held actually insurgents? Or people caught in a web?
Why the emphasis on Durbin's comments instead of examining what is truly important to our nation?
Back to the co-worker...she could only take seconds of Neal. Then she'd switch back to NPR.
By the time she got to work, she could understand why all these old white men are so cranky. They listen to this sludge all the time.

[maxrandb]

7. Can I Say Something As an Active Duty Naval Officer

with more than 20 years of service to my country. I don't think my opinion should matter more simply because I'm in the military, but this is how I feel STRONGLY about this whole thing.

Senator Durbin did not slander the military. He did not slander America. The only people that have SLANDERED THE MILITARY, are the INDIVIDUALS that commit despicable acts against those we are holding in prison, and the LEADERSHIP that either allowed it to happen, ordered it to happen, or wrote rules so ambiguous that they knew it would happen.

There have not been many times that I have felt ashamed of my uniform. One was when 47 of my shipmates were killed in a turret accident, and the Navy (without proof) laid the blame on a dead Sailor that could not defend himself.

The second time was when I saw people wearing the same uniform that I wear building "meat pyramids" with Iraqi citizens.

That is the true shame. And I think that soon some additional photos are coming out that could potentially be MUCH WORSE than what we have seen.

Yes!! There are people out there "slandering" the military and America, but it's NOT Senator Durbin.

Senator Durbin should apologize when the DOD apologizes to me for allowing Rush Limbaugh a forum on AFRTS where he can tell my shipmates that "I Hate America".

and if your confused about how I feel about Rush....if I got close enough to him...I'd Rip His Tits Off!!

[KansDem]

10. Thanks for you insight!

Your comments are very informative. I believe this whole attack on Durbin is a desperate attempt to distract from the real issues, which you so effectively described.

[maxrandb]

11. It's The Game We've Allowed Them to Play for 30 Years Now

We've allowed them to "frame the debate". I can't say it's not effective, but it's a debate style that any 3RD "grader" could understand.

You listen to someone like Hannity and the question is always "are we better off without Saddam"? Of course, any American in his right mind would answer that as "Yes". If you say yes, you can't criticize the pResident. If you say "No", you obviously hate America and are a Saddam sympathiser.

You see in there world, you never have a 3RD Option. They only give you 2 choices:

a. You get rid of Saddam the GWB way. You lie to the American people, go in on the cheap, poorly fund and supply the troops, send only 150,000, have no plans for what to do after the fall of Saddam, break international law, alienate the muslim world, and generally make a complete mess of things.

OR

b. Saddam's still in power.

How "effed" up is that??

Another example is you can either support the troops, no matter what they do, or your defined as an anti-American, troop hating terrorist sympathiser.

Again. NO THIRD OPTION. To them, your options for dealing with prisoners of war, or "enemy combatants" is

a. Treat them any the hell way we want. Drag them naked around on dog collars. Beat them senseless. Hog-tie them for 48 hours with bright lights and rap music playing. Sick dogs them and then hold them down as you sew up the wound with a needle and thread.

OR

b. Coddle them and let them go free.

As if a valid option is not

c. Detain them. Question them. Treat them well. Try them and convict them if warranted. Release them if they are no longer a threat. In other words. Restore the principals of human decency to America. Make America a symbol of HOW TO DO THINGS RIGHT. This should not be a "race to the bottom".

[dogday]

8. They are trying to create a distraction and discredit Democrats

DSM and other memos are coming to light. This is a diversion to take the heat off this administration....

[Lecky]

9. It's a disgrace

I've never seen so many desperate republicans trying to divert Americans from the truth.

It's painfully obvious.