Why Durbin was right to say what he did - My experience

[Coexist]

To illustrate - here was a problem I had recently.

I sat down at the computer and flipped on the t.v. It was tuned to CNN. There was a poor quality live-videophone feed from Iraq. I paused to watch it. I missed the beginning of the report, so I had no background. The female reporter was discussing how "the men that were freed here were tortured. The scars they have are awful." She told how they described being tortured with electricity.

I got a knot in my stomach. I thought after everything that came out in Abu Ghraib and Gitmo, that we had stopped that and were trying to clean up our act re: Iraqi prisoners. I was sick.

Well - it turned out that the torturers were Iraqi insurgents, not Americans.

WHY, AS AN AMERICAN CITIZEN in a 'FREE' society should I have to worry that torture is being done in my name. What Durbin said clearly illustrates my conundrum. If you heard the reports Durbin was referring to without knowing the background, you WOULD assume it was a repressive regime that condoned those actions. Not the freakin' United States of America. We should NEVER have to wonder if it is us or them when you hear a report like that.

WE ARE BETTER THAN THAT - I shouldn't have to hear a CNN report on human beings being tortured and get sick because I think it is our side they are talking about. Not in this country. Not ever.

[GreenArrow]

1. the issue isn't a Repbulican versus Democrat one

it's an issue of common humanity. It's not about blaming Americans, it's that torture is not a civilized or acceptable way to treat other human beings.

[havocmom]

2. The Nazis used threats of professional ruin and violence to intimidate

their own domestic critics. And yes, they made good on enough of those
threats that other domestic critics took them seriously and were silenced by the fear.

The neocon thugs' own behavior proves the point that they operate much like the Nazis.

[realFedUp]

3. Leading by example

Most sane and thinking people will tell you
that torture is inhumane and in most cases doesn't give
relevant information AND that by the U.S.
instructing, inflicting and hiding torture practices
in various areas of the world, we are spreading
terrorism and torture.

We are complicit in Torture R US.

[Coexist]

4. I agree and Durbin should have had full party backing

but that is water under the bridge - it is not too late to show him support in lieu of other leaders doing so.

[realFedUp]

6. I agree....Durbin shouldn't have apologized for telling the truth

nt

[wurzel]

5. Durbin was totally wrong.

If it wasn't a foreign "repressive regime" then he was talking about the Bush Administration. And he should have said so in as many words. But he chickened out and allowed the Repukes to characterize his words in their terms. I don't know when the Dems will ever learn. ALWAYS SEPCIFICALLY NAME THE TARGET! If they mean Bush say Bush. If not. SHUT UP.

[Coexist]

7. I just turned the OP into a LTTE

maybe it will get printed.

[Igel]

8. Torture is wrong.

On the other hand, the "we are better than that" brings back bad memories of a minister I knew that firmly believed in Anglo-Israelism, the idea that Britain (and, in one large variant, the US) are at least part of the "lost 10 tribes of Israel."

Whenever there was discussion of the horrors committed by foreign governments, his response was, "That's the Gentile mind for you, the Israelitish mind could never conceive of doing something like that."

[Sparkman]

9. 300 yrs SLAVERY; 300 yrs indigenous genocide; A_Bomb Jap.;penitentiary

system with LARGEST POPULATION IN WORLD or in HISTORY;Selling weapons to any dictator in Europe/Africa/S. America/Saddam/Taliban, who may have "our" oil reserves/cheap commodities; remember the Salem witch trials (our own Taliban); the INDIAN wars; corporations poisoning us with DDT / livestock anti-biotics / untested pharmaceuticals / undisclosed chemicals in cigarettes; $120 Billion recently in government support to big tobacco corp's; 500 Billion in "defense" spending; 300 military bases in foreign lands....

WHAT PART OF U.S. HISTORY can we refer to that would NOT be replete with examples of brutality, torture and subjugation of people?
Seems like it's current direction/policies fit right into the pattern.
Isn't it the progressives' who call out those ruinous policies of our gov., because those in power with the wealth (or those with the wealth in power) who dominate the message in media and the propagandist cultural icons, surely won't self-criticize. Let's remember the fate of Dan Rather/Phil Donahue and Paul Moyers, all forced out of their broadcast positions for expressing dissent.

[formernaderite]

10. As much as I abhor the torture....why are we enabling their religious

habits? I don't want to support handing out copies of the Qu'ran or prayer rugs etc. What happened to separation of church and state? OH, I remember...the Bush admin is proud to comingle these aspects of life.

[merh]

11. Co-mingling only if it involves fristianity.

All other religion is wrong, so there will be no comingling! :smoke: