The controversy over Durbin's comments/apology is entirely phony.

[BurtWorm]

It's Republican manufactured. Is it really worth debating whether it's appropos to compare Guantanamo to Auschwitz? Durbin apologized. Case closed.

What Durbin could have said, which would have been beyond criticism, is that Guantanamo is a blight on America's human rights record. Guantanamo is anthithetical to the Constitution and the principles of the American nation. Guantanamo--in particular, the treatment of prisoners there--shames America. Guantanamo must be shut down, and the prisoners there either released or charged and tried.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

1. Yes

That would have been correct, his sticking to the message. And other Democrats should have joined in, forming an unbreakable coalition of outraged seekers of justice.

That would have been ideal, that would have been right.

That would have taken a spine, and there's not one among all the Democrats. How they manage to stay upright is amazing. If not for Karl Rove's strings dancing them around, they'd probably all slump over in tearful disarray like Durbin's performance yesterday.

Guantanamo was the issue. Durbin allowed his phraseology to become the issue.

What a sordid failure.

[Beetwasher]

2. Apologizing Keeps It in The News-THAT'S GOOD

Gitmo=Nazi is a good meme to keep in the news.

[BurtWorm]

5. Gitmo=Nazi is a wedge to drive those who want it shut down apart.

There will be those who know what Durbin was getting at and forgive him the comparison, and those who can't tolerate the comparison and will have their opposition to Guantanamo diluted. I think it's best to drop that comparison and the fight over the apology and focus on getting that camp closed down.

[sui generis]

3. it is manufactured outrage

you're right - the better strategy would have been as you stated.

But, having said that, if we are unable to ever compare anyone to the early German nationalist party until they're shoving dead political dissidents and jews and gays and catholic priests into ovens, then we are indeed doomed to repeat it sooner or later.

Germans didn't wake up one morning and say, "gosh, I think I'll be evil today".

It happened a little bit at a time over a long time. Comparisons to the early years of the rise of the German Nationalist party are indeed accurate and warranted, even if they aren't a good strategy for the debate over Guantanamo.

[BurtWorm]

7. They're fascists. No doubt. Unfortunately, Durbin cannot say that.

Durbin, and any Democrat who wants to attack the system, has to keep his head cool and stick to substance rather than name-calling. Knowing myself how exquisite it feels to call Republicans names, I know it requires tremendous discipline not to give Republican pieces of shit a handle on how to derail the momentum against them.

[NewJeffCT]

8. They have a whole network & infrastructure to create the outrage

First, it goes on Rush, then somebody from the Moonie Washington Times picks it up, The Moonie Times reporter goes on Fox, where it then spreads to CNN & MSNBC, then Hannity, O'Reilly (quoting CNN or MSNBC) & the like spread it on their radio shows & all the fundies send form emails to wherever they are directed to, pretty soon its picked up on the 3 free networks, and the AP, and it's a groundswell of outrage.

[sui generis]

15. but avoiding every possible exposure we might give them

lets them control what we say and how we say it.

We have to be willing to own a little outrage or they're just going to herd us where they want us.

[BurtWorm]

19. It would be best to find ways of expressing outrage without giving them

something to drive a wedge into it. Just simply saying Guantanamo shames America, for instance. The comparison to Nazis and gulags may be appropos, but it creates too much noise around it for the message to be heard clearly. Is it more important to stick to the comparison or to find one that sticks?

[sui generis]

21. I'm agreeing with you

but there will be a time in retrospectives and in public education where the historical comparisons must needs be made.

Just the same, we were also exploited anyway by the MSM in their portrayal of the incident as a tearful democrat recanting in public and being "forgiven" by the generous, wise, wrongfully wronged noble republicans.

However, statement having been made, if it were me I would not have apologized for the statement or to the troops - it showed weakness, and anyone with more than two brain cells knows that a U.S. senator would not intentionally impugn the people who are dying for their duty to our caligula madman president.

We're as passionate about it because we know how desperately wrong it is to condone torture of people, and that's the issue I would have pointed out. That's where we are vulnerable - in how the world perceives us because of what we do, today.

[BurtWorm]

22. It would be great if Durbin says something like what you said.

After all his remark was meant to express his horror that this treatment of prisoners was sanctioned by Americans on behalf of the US government, not to equate this degraded behavior with that of the other "mad regimes" he mentioned.

My impulse is to want to defend Durbin, who doesn't deserve to be piled on twice like this. Durbin is not the issue. What's being done in our name at Guantanamo is the issue.

[NewJeffCT]

20. I agree

I don't like giving in, especially when the RW machine takes things so out of context.

The problem is that when folks on DU & other progressive places write in support of Durbin, the RW can crank out thousands of letters, faxes and emails to bombard his office. Their machine has had a 30 year head start on ours and has been funded to the tune of billions.

[Spazito]

4. I agree, it is typical diversion from the issue that the repubs

do and the media assists them willingly. Here is a column that totally agrees with Durbin re Gitmo:

Gitmo appalling

snip

The Senate majority leader, Republican Bill Frist, added, "to cut and run because of image problems is the wrong thing to do." Brilliant, Bill. In an earlier time, you might have advised: "Mein Fuhrer, ignore all that stupid criticism of our concentration camps. Stand firm!"

Fortunately, decent Americans find the Guantanamo gulag an outrageous violation of everything the nation stands for. Former president Jimmy Carter, who has become the country's conscience in a time of growing totalitarian impulses, demanded it be closed, as have a growing number of legislators, including the Republican party's most courageous senator, Chuck Hegel.

snip

Guantanamo violates the Geneva Conventions, international and U.S. law. There are reports that in the rest of the secret U.S. gulags in Morocco, Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Diego Garcia, even worse crimes are being committed against those suspected of anti-U.S. activities.

snip

The White House says Taliban and jihadi fighters were "illegal combatants" deserving no mercy or legal protection. Then what of the 20,000 plus non-uniformed U.S. and British mercenaries operating in Iraq and Afghanistan as "civilian contractors," and non-uniformed U.S. Special Forces?

more

http://torontosun.canoe.ca/News/Columnists/Margolis_Eric/2005/06/19/1095168-sun.html

[iconoclastic cat]

6. I understand your point, but are the Repubs making him grovel and scrape?

[BurtWorm]

9. It almost seems more like lefties are.

He apologized. It should be over with and we should be back on what needs to be done: getting Gitmo shut down and the troops out of Iraq. And Bush in hotter and hotter water.

[iconoclastic cat]

11. I emailed and called his offices to ask him to please stop apologizing.

Especially when he was correct in the first place.

Anyway, BurtWorm, I don't know that I agree that the Repubs are manufacturing this whole thing. The Dems are in on it, too.

[BurtWorm]

13. His apology was pro forma.

Think of it as the equivalent of his saying, "Sorry if this offends anyone, but Guantanamo could have been designed by Nazis." Only he put the "Sorry if this offends anyone" afterward.

By the way, here's what the FBI said about Guantanamo (according to today's dailyhowler.com):

FBI REPORT (7/29/04): On a couple of occasions, I entered interview rooms to find a detainee chained hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor, with no chair, food, or water. Most times they urinated or defecated on themselves, and had been left there for 18-24 hours or more. On one occasion, the air conditioning had been turned down so far and the temperature was so cold in the room, that the barefooted detainee was shaking with cold...On another occasion, the <air conditioner> had been turned off, making the temperature in the unventilated room well over 100 degrees. The detainee was almost unconscious on the floor, with a pile of hair next to him. He had apparently been literally pulling his hair out throughout the night. On another occasion, not only was the temperature unbearably hot, but extremely loud rap music was being played in the room, and had been since the day before, with the detainee chained hand and foot in the fetal position on the tile floor.

[tex-wyo-dem]

10. Yep, completely phony...

it's a distraction, smear job and smoke screen.

One of the local RW shills on AM here in Dallas this morning went on and on that Durbin's apology was not sincere...phony outrage to keep the "controversy" going.

I don't expect this to die down soon. They'll continue to use it to smear Dems and distract from all the negative news hitting * and the Rethugs.

[iconoclastic cat]

12. The Dems need to stop responding to the Repub "outrage."

When the Republicans start screaming for apologies, bring up yet another bit of damaging truth.

[truebrit71]

14. The biggest problem with Durbin's apology is that the apology

..becomes the focus, and NOT the human rights violations he was referring to...

He should have stood his ground, told the nazi's to go and fuck themselves, and demand an inquiry into the atrocities at Gitmo and Abu Ghraib.

Instead he backed off, and remains in the spotlight as all the jackbooted thugs get in their kicks....

What apparently doesn't matter in all of this is that he didn't initially accuse the US military of being nazis, and he didn't actually apologize for what he said, but HOW HE SAID IT....

But you'd need a functioning brain to figure that out....

[BurtWorm]

18. If he hadn't apologized, how long do you think would it take

for his not apologizing to stop being the news?

[truebrit71]

23. I honestly believe that it would have died down sooner than it will now...

..and without the follow-on effects of the rethuglicans demanding further apologies from Pelosi et al....

The only thing a bully understands is a punch in the mouth....One of these days an elected Democrat will figure that out....

But I ain't holding my breath....

[BurtWorm]

24. Durbin was done for when the Dems started piling on. Friggin' Dems!

I hope we're not still talking about this tomorrow.

[Scout1071]

16. Of course it is phony. Just like their phony outrage over Schiavo.

It's more diversion tactics. Pay no attention to the man behind the screen.

[moondust]

17. Designed to get rid of DSM news.

Another non-story to displace real and important news.