Lies and this War

[Sugarcoated]

What is this logic that many repubs have, that it doesn't matter how we ended up in Iraq, we should only talk about what's happening there right now. What's not functioning right in their brains that they can't see how Bush decieved the American people? Why should that be, according to them, blown off? Are they that blinded by the right? Is it the repub quality of 'never question anything RW'?

'It doensn't matter HOW we got into this war', it's crazy, I don't know how they justify it.

[getmeouttahere]

1. At the very least....

you would think they would advocate allowing the UN to go in and keep the peace and get our soldiers out, if for no other reason than self-serving and isolationist-type reasoning. Of course, BushCo only finds the UN relevant when it suits their aims (unless of course you're John Bolton, who thinks the UN is always irrelevant).

But they can't even admit that our very existence there is what is causing the never-ending spiral of violence.

[Sugarcoated]

2. The UN to them is like a Satanist Cult

I don't understand the hate for the UN either, so much I just can't get my head around with the way Repubs think.

[Sugarcoated]

3. Does anyone have Repub friends who have said

the reasons don't matter? It's so ridiculous I don't know how to respond to it.

[Sugarcoated]

4. anybody get this lame arguement?

[spindoctor]

5. That's my brother's stance and it is hard to argue with

He is more of a libertarian and he has the position that the Middle East needs to be introduced to the 21st century by force if necessary.

He strongly opposes fundamentalism and nothing spreads faster around the globe than Muslim fundamentalism. Since this is all funded by oil money, he considers it a good thing to take their oil away.

He doesn't care how we got into this war, he is just pleased that somebody has taken the innitiative to take out the trash. In his opinion our culture may have its flaws, but objectively it is still ten times better than theirs.

He is more of a pragmatist than I am and values necessity over morality, I guess.

[Sugarcoated]

7. You know,

that does seem to be the underlying feeling of alot of repubs that I debate with. It's not about Bush's honesty - it's that he has a set, and they love that. Black and white thinking. But that messes up the Clinton BJ Gate thing - it wasn't about the sex, it was about the lying. They're just such a whacko bunch of hypocrites. They don't make sense.

[spindoctor]

8. No, you misinterpreted my post

He has no particular affection for Bush (as a matter of fact, he is the European half of my family so that's really a moot point anyway).

His POV is that American control of the Middle East is preferable over Arab control of the Middle East. And no, he is no neocon either. lol

My bro is a VERY smart man with an expert knowledge of history, politics and economics. He is by no means a hypocrit, just somebody with a different opinion that is very well founded in reality.

[BlueEyedSon]

10. US control of the ME is not going to happen (look how well were doing in

one little unarmed country). It's going to bleed us for as long as we stay.

BTW, the Bushies don't really want to "fix" the ME (obvious from their minuscule troop deployment and lack of post-war planning), just secure the oil.

[spindoctor]

13. Hey! Don't start on me now!

;)

:toast:

[Sugarcoated]

11. Sorry I wasn't clear

I didn't mean to give the impression I thought that of your brother. I was saying that with the common garden variety Repub, the view of your brother, that American control of the Middle East is preferable over Arab control, that may be underlying neo's and Conservatives seeming casual disreguard for Bush's deciet.

[spindoctor]

12. Yes, the goal sanctifies the means

I'm just trying to give you an inside look in the mind of somebody who fits your original description :)

He also feels that politicians always serve primarily their own agenda so you have to consider yourself lucky if they coincide with the common good.

Clinton lied, Bush lied, the next President will lie. Lying politicians is a constant. It's the results that matter.


Trust me, his reasoning is hard to argue with ;)

[BlueEyedSon]

9. Yeah, except it is IMPOSSIBLE for the US to unilaterally impose

modernity by force. It may be impossible to do it multilaterally by force. Given that assumption, whats the point of wasting

$300+ billion
1700 US lives
100k Iraqis

Also, Saddam Hussein, being a SECULAR (and fairly modern) was the least trashy leader there. BTW, the greatest threat to our freedoms and lifestyle is homegrown fundamentalism.

Sorry, but your bro' is hardly a pragmatist, he is a fool (and a marketing man's best friend).

[spindoctor]

14. LOL

You'll have to trust me on the fact that he is far from a fool.

I am not about to defend his stance though or I am likely to get my ass banned from this place. lol

[BlueEyedSon]

15. Why does he hate America?

Oh, riiiiight.... he's not American so he could give a rats ass about a US failure.

:)

[BlueEyedSon]

6. If they lied to get us into a WAR, what is beyond them to lie about????