What The Hell Do Scientologists Believe? I Have No Idea!

[DistressedAmerican]

All I really know is that a lot of celebs are followers.

Anyone able to summarize what these people are all about?

[slackmaster]

1. "You'll PAY to know what you really believe!"

That about sums it up.

[Endangered Specie]

26. omg slackmaster has invented a perpetual motion machine!!!!

;)

[Mugsy]

41. Based on the philosophy of L. Ron Hubbard.

They are very secretive, so little is known about Scientology, but here is the gist:

L. Ron Hubbard. was a reasonably decent science fiction writer in the '70's, whose most famous book was "Battlefield Earth" (brought to the screen by Scientolgy lapdog Travolta in a huge movie flop. BTW: that book is over 1000 pages in paperback!)

While Hubbard did not write Dyanetics (the foundation of Scientology) eventhough the book bears his name, it was his own personal made up religion... that Earth was first populated by a super-intelligent alien race that visited here millions (billions?) of years ago. And we are all the progeny of those aliens.

Hubbard died decades ago, yet Scientology books bearing his name are still being written.

They cater so heavily to celebs because they teach that "fame and fortune" is a sign of ultimate reward, that you are a deserving person. So you can understand why the richest, most famous actors just LOVE Scientology (Travolta, Cruise, Kiddman, etc). And they treat their celebs accordingly... like "Chosen Ones".

It's really quite a bizzare racket.

I love this quote by Katie Holmes' father about his future son in law: "Any father should be concerned when his young daughter becomes engaged to a middle aged man that jumps up-n-down on furniture and worships aliens.
:rofl:

[Cha]

63. Nicole Kidman is NOT into

Scientology..see how rumors get started?

[geniph]

68. Kidman's not a Scientology fan

She's too polite to speak badly of it, but she's still a practicing Catholic. That was at least part of the reason they divorced.

[Teaser]

2. That there are ghosts of dead aliens

in our heads that cause us all our problems.

Oh, and we are descended from clams and still retain traumatic clam-memories that need to be exorcised by doing special exercises with your thumb and hand simulating a clam opening and closing.

[Frederik]

74. Very, very expensive special exercises.

[aden_nak]

3. It makes Mormonism look like a rational, scientific view of history.

[jeff30997]

4. Scientologists believe in the almighty green rectangle...

The dollar bill.

[stevedeshazer]

5. All I know is that they believe...

...that I should take a free personality test.

It never went farther than that by my choice. :crazy:

[iconoclastNYC]

12. It's "FREE STRESS TEST" now

You can find them most days in Time Square subway station in NYC.....when they ask me if i would like a stress test I tell them: "NO I DON'T LIKE CULTS"

[im10ashus]

14. good reply.

and much more gracious than I have been able to muster over at Grand Central Station. I hate those people. Damn cult members!

[iconoclastNYC]

21. I love the confused look you get when you say Cult.

Its like some of them have never even thought about it before.

Me and a friend of mine want to phamphleteer over there sometime.

Xenu.net has a PDF of a good one to hand out that lets out all the secrets you have to pay Scientology 400K to find out.

[Q3JR4]

16. If you take one of those

"personality tests" no matter how well you do, they'll recomend that you take a "communication course." That's how they get your hooks into you.

[wuushew]

6. All I know is that Battlefield Earth is one of the worst movies ever made

John Travolta could never pay me enough to make up for the two wasted hours of my life I lost.

[Matariki]

7. here you go

everything you'd want to know about Scientology - and then some:

http://www.xenu.com/

[DistressedAmerican]

9. Thanks I'll Check It Out!

[paula777]

45. OMFG - Did you go to the tinurl link. I'm embarrased to admit

I am hesitating .....

* Details of this incident have been available for public view on the internet for several years and to date there have been no reported illnesses or deaths attributed to viewing this information. However, many scientologists still refuse to view these materials until they have completed all the preparatory steps. For the brave and curious, full details can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/2x55d

[Frederik]

75. Here you go

This is very, very secret information that is worth lots and lots of money:

Data (1) (1)
The head of the Galactic
Confederation (76 planets around
larger stars visible from here)
(founded 95,000,000 yrs ago, very space opera)
solved overpopulation (250 billion
or so per planet) -- 178 billion
average) by mass implanting.
He caused people to be brought to
Teegeeack (Earth) and put an H Bomb
on the principal volcanoes (Incident 2)
and then the Pacific area ones
were taken in boxes to Hawaii
and the Atlantic Area ones to
Las Palmas and there "packaged."
His name was Xenu. He used
renegades. Various misleading
data by means of circuits etc.
were placed in the implants.
When through with his crime Loyal Officers
(to the people) captured him
after 6 years of battle
and put him in an electronic
mountain trap where he still
is. "They" are gone. The place (Confed.)
has since been a desert.

:rofl:

[NC Beach Girl]

61. wow

Just wow...thanks so much for that link, I never really bothered to find out about Scientology before and I am just amazed at what this is really all about.

The aliens...I thought that was a joke, but they are totally serious.

:crazy:

[sweetheart]

65. Here you go, from the horses mouth:

http://www.whatisscientology.org/

[ET Awful]

8. They believe anything and everything that L. Ron Hubbard wrote for

them to believe. The xenu.net link in the post above has all the lowdown.

[EC]

10. Think L. Ron Hubbard + Ayn Rand... n/t

[SlipperySlope]

11. Hubbard was a sci/fi writer - he made it all up

They believe that aliens from another planet came here and live inside your head, and that all your failures and weaknesses are caused by implanted memories from these aliens. Or something like that.

[lectrobyte]

13. Beware of alien clams! Are we CLEAR on this?

[Q3JR4]

15. If your a celeb,

you're helping to "clear" (get rid of the "reactive" mind) the whole world and save humanity from itself and the big bad alien that imprisoned us here. Sure, you pay tons of money but you get to feel good about yourself (activities take place that increase the level of suggestibility leaving one in an euphoric state). A celebrity doesn't get to see the darker side.

If you're a normal everyday peon, you still pay thousands of dollars for therapy that does nothing more than increase your suggestibility and places you in a state of..seemingly..perpetual hypnosis. If your staff you don't have to pay anything, but you get substandard food, get worked for long hours, and pushed further and further to increase your level of output for the "church". Any deviation from the norm, any question in your mind, is your fault and you are punished accordingly. People have lost their minds because of what they were put through and some have even died at the hands of the other members.

Anyway, onto your question.

Humans have an "active" and "reactive" mind. We have to work with the "reactive" mind to remove it's influence over us, and only scientology (created by L. Ron Hubbard) can do that.

Later on you learn that billions of years ago the universe was overcrowded. The supreme galactic ruler, Xenu, put a bunch of people on the surface of the earth and detonated H-bombs in the volcanoes on the planet killing everything on the surface. Around the planet he placed devices that would trap the souls (what the scientologists call thetans) in clumps and then reprogram them and send them back to the surface in another human body (christianity and the like are just "engrams" programmed into your mind by these machines). Only through scientology can one work with the thetans that are clumped to you and get rid of them. If you do, you'll get these fabulous powers that all of us have in our "clear" state.

(You ain't supposed to know this, Scientologists believe that if you read through the last paragraph before your "ready"--read you've paid thousands of dollars to the "church" and given up a bit of your sanity along the way--you'll go insane).

That, my friend, is the "BIG SECRET," just--you know--FYI and stuff.

[Amaya]

20. Wow!

that is truly bizarre.

[SammyWinstonJack]

40. Insane!

:wow: How can people believe this? :crazy:

[geniph]

69. I'd say Cruise read the last paragraph before he was "ready"

judging by his recent amazing impersonation of a psychotic...

[jonnyblitz]

94. that doesn't sound any whackier than xianity to me. nt

[zalinda]

17. I was in Scientology for awhile back in the 70's

Scientology translates as the science of knowing. If you want to find out about it, there are books to read, so you don't have to "join" if you don't want to. It is not a cult, as a matter of fact, not that you'd ever get that idea from this group of people. I NEVER had a problem with leaving the group or the staff of an organization.

I can only give you info on my experience. First, they teach that you are not a body, but a spirit. They teach that there are things in your past that impinge on the way you view and live your life. For example: there was a woman that I met, that I instantly did not like. Not until I really started looking at why, did I find out that she bore a striking resemblance to a woman in my young past who was having an affair with my father. After I realized that I was able to be friends with the woman and she turned out to be delightful. They teach that you should always understand what you read, if you come across a word you don't understand, you should look it up. They also have some rules for living which is very good.

Now, I understand that there have been people who have had problems with Scientology, but that doesn't mean that all of Scientology is bad, just as a bad priest doesn't make the whole of Catholicism bad. And, I have never heard of a space alien in your head or coming from clams, and I had been in Scientology and even on staff for over 5 years.

Why did I leave? I moved out of the area, and did not have access to an organization. I still use what I learned in Scientology all the time. It was invaluable after my divorce and living my life when my economic life was going down the drain.

Dianetics is available through the library, as well as some other Scientology books. Read it, if it makes sense to you, fine, if it doesn't, then Scientology is not for you.

zalinda

[question everything]

18. The worst part is that once you are in

there is no way out

There have been several celebrated cases where individuals were literally persecuted for wanting out, where reporters were attacked for writing about them.

I wonder whether what's her name realizes this, when she said yes to Tommy boy.

Nicole was not one of them, was she?

[zalinda]

28. That's not true, I was in and now I'm out

with absolutely no problems. Most of what you read and hear about Scientology is a bunch of lies. If you only read Ann Coulter, you'd only believe liberals are worthless.

zalinda

[Pithlet]

29. So, the stuff about having to pay thousands for courses

isn't true? That's one of my biggest problems with the organization is how it bilks its own members of so much money. Any organization that claims to be a religion, but does so, is highly suspicious to me, which is why so much of what I hear about it seems believable. Believe me, I don't want to bash any Scientologists, because I don't find fault with its members on the bottom rung who (I believe) have been conned. And if much of the stuff I hear is false, I'd like to hear the true story. I have zero interest in joining, but if much of what I hear is slander, I'd be interested in knowing that.

[Endangered Specie]

31. As I understand it they charge significant quantities of money

to obtain higher ranks (OT8+)... the exact total can be anywhere in the 6 figure range. There are reports of many "bottom rung" members going broke/bankrupt. (here is a link to some 'researched' costs: http://www.xenu.net/archive/CoS_prices.html, http://www.xenu.net/archive/prices.html)

wikipedia is a fairly nonbiased source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology
there are many other sub articles there... happy reading :)

There are a number of websites that are devoted to recording the "wrongdoings" of the scientology religion/cult.

There is also a good Time article.

[Pithlet]

33. That is my understanding as well

I've seen it reported too many times, and from too many reputible sources, with so many people who used to be in the orginization testifying to that fact.

[zalinda]

43. Yes, you do have to pay money

just as you do when you support your Christian church. Scientology doesn't ask you to tithe, they ask you to pay for your services.

The reason you have to pay? Because something that you get free you don't appreciate. Also, there has to be some way to support the churches.

zalinda

[DistressedAmerican]

49. Frankly, If They Charge A Cent Beyond Their Operating Costs,

they are ripping folks off. If those at the top are living in luxury, they are ripping people off.

I'nm not saying they are. I have no idea. But, I am suspicious of any church that requires a heafty contribution...

[zalinda]

70. I never saw anyone living in luxury in all my 5 years

Some of the people running the orgs were just as poor as the rest of us. They had a hard time meeting their rent and usually had a spouse who made up the slack by having a regular job.

zalinda

[ElaineinIN]

56. Actually, you don't need to pay any money to my church

at least.... you donate if you can, and of course you are actively encouraged to do so. There is absolutely, positively NO requirement to pay a red cent, unlike scientology, which requires you to pay money to move to the next "level" of clear--at least that is my understanding from the IRS cases on the subject.

[Pithlet]

81. Most Christian churches don't force you

and it isn't thousands of dollars. Many churches expect tithing, but most don't demand or you're kicked out of the church. It certainly isn't required before you're allowed to attend services. And the tenets of faith aren't kept from you until you pay.

And there are plenty of things I get for free that I appreciate. In fact, the things I appreciate the most and are dearest to me I didn't have to pay a dime for.

[springhill]

30. I can only speak about my brother's experience........

He was in Scientology in the 70,s also, and he was harassed when he left. Notes left on his door, constant calls, etc. They were not very happy. Also, my brother always needed more and more money to pay for whatever this religion was teaching him. After he left, he told me that they were told to ask friends, family, anyone who could give them the money that they needed to stay in the program. I swear, there was something really wierd about him during that time, and I definitely compare what he went through to a cult mentality.

[zalinda]

44. When people first get into Scientology

they do become a little weird acting. There is something called TR's, I think it's short for training routine, but I'm not sure, it's been a long time. With TR's, you start out with just sitting in front of another person a "looking" at them. You have to be able to sit there comfortably "confronting" the other person for 2 hours. After you are able to do that then you go to the next step which is letting people say things to you without reacting to them. Okay, it's been a long time so I don't remember all the steps and in order. But, the purpose is to become comfortable in your own skin and with another person. Some people have a very difficult time with these exercises and become a little weird because they over emphasize these exercises when first talking to people. What these exercises do is free you from reacting to things when you don't want to. It lets you be more in control of a situation. This can be heady stuff, and lasts for awhile until you relax and use the techniques naturally.

As for the asking for money. What many don't know is that each org supports itself. Staff do not get paid a salary, they get paid a portion of the money that is brought in that week, by the entire organization. When you are facing eating ramen noodles again for the next week, you can do some pretty desperate things to get money in the door. What else that you don't know is that Hubbard did not get anything from the orgs, except from the books sold. How do I know, I was treasurer at the Detroit org for awhile.

zalinda

[RandomKoolzip]

47. But what about all the aliens from space mumbo-jumbo?

I mean, that IS what Scientology is all about: that aliens came to earth and enslaved all the "Thetans" and dropped ancient H-bombs in volcanoes 'n' shit.

What are your feelings about that stuff?

[zalinda]

71. I never heard anything about that stuff

Everything I heard and learned was about improving oneself and the world around us, so there was no conflict in the world. You were supposed to be ethical, and yes, basically live by the golden rule. Most of the things that were taught was tools to use to live your life in an ethical manner.

zalinda

[RandomKoolzip]

85. That sounds pleasant and all, but....

You DO know that Xenu the alien overlord destroying the souls of "Thetans" (read: science fiction.....y'know, the stuff L. Ronald trafficked in before starting his quite profitable religio-scam) is the center of their religion, right? I mean, they can sell you the self-actualization stuff to hook ya, but the more moolah you spend on the shit, the more goofy-ass bizarro theology they throw at ya.

I guess you just didn't spend enough money to find out about the science fiction cosmology behind the "self-help" facade.

[zalinda]

87. So the "self-help" facade doesn't mean anything?

Most people do not get to the higher levels. And I can't confirm anything about Xenu, since I never heard of him/it/her in my 5 years in Scientology. So you discredit me and my achievements because someone somewhere has said that there is a Xenu? Don't we know that if you say something enough times, everyone thinks it's true. I know what I experienced and I know the people I encountered, including those on the upper levels. These people were just as committed as anyone you can name to try and help people and change the planet to one of peace.

I know for a fact that many of the "truths" out there are lies. One of the biggest lies is that when you get audited they find out all your secrets and will blackmail you with it. I snuck a peek in an auditing folder one time, because I was curious about what was written down. Most of what was written down was needle movements on the e-meter. There was absolutely nothing about what a person was saying, just reactions.

And, it may just be that Xenu was a story that Hubbard was working on. He was a Sci-fi writer after all and he was writing Sci-fi up until his death. I do know that he was a prolific writer, as he also wrote under pen names. From talking to an old timer who knew him personally, he was an amazing multi-tasker.

If something helps a person, why question what may or may not be in that person's future? I would guess that about 75 percent who join Scientology will only take the communication course and 10 to 20 percent will not be able to finish it. It is not an easy course to finish. But, the gains are wonderful if you do. I wouldn't care if no one ever got to the higher levels, because the lower stuff is just great. It's like meditation, many people just use the basic stuff and never advance to being able to control your bodily functions, but you don't invalidate the lower level stuff because the higher level stuff seems like Sci-fi.

zalinda

[RandomKoolzip]

89. What can you get from Scientology that you can't get from

any decent therapist or self-help book? Answer:

An E-METER!

http://www.randi.org/jr/040502.html (read about halfway down)

Seriously, though....There are many ways to acheive self-actualization that don't have the stench of goofy cultism attached to them.

[zalinda]

93. The difference between a therapist and an auditor

is......one tells you what is wrong with you and the other lets you find out what the source of your problems are. A therapist will also recommend anti-depressants, it is the easy "cure". Sometimes what you think bothers you, really turns out to be something quite different. I know in my auditing sessions that what I thought was going to bother me didn't, but a different event. We tend to cover up what is bothering us to protect ourselves. There have been many, many people who have gone years to therapists, and can't say that they even feel better. A person who comes out of an auditing session feels very much better.

What the meter is used for is kind of like a lie detector, when you are discussing an event the needle will do something and the auditor will note what kind of needle action it was and ask you a question to find that needle movement again. And each time there is a needle movement, a new question is asked, until you find the event that was bothering you. When you finally find the event, and what you were feeling at the time, you feel great, because you can confront the situation. Now, I've never been an auditor, so I can't tell you any more than what I experienced.

BTW, I went to the link that you provided. I couldn't tell you what an e-meter costs now, so I won't comment on that. But, I did notice a number of inaccuracies of what Scientologists "believe".

Also, recently, my medical doctor has tried to get me on anti-depressants 3 times in the last year. To shut her up, I took them for a month. She couldn't believe what they did to me and took me off of them right away. It turned out that one of the reasons I was feeling so bad was because I was missing an amino acid. I didn't think it made much of a difference, but my son said there was a huge difference.

So, like I've said before, if it works for you fine, if it doesn't that's fine too. If you don't want to join Scientology don't, I don't mind. I am not in Scientology right now, I haven't been for over 25 years. But, what I've learned in Scientology helped me to overcome some very bad things that have happened in the last 25 years. I didn't want to sit in silence anymore while people who's only "crime" is being a Scientologist is vilified.

zalinda

[ElaineinIN]

57. Again, I would suggest the IRS cases

Part of the reason that the IRS originally denied tax exempt status to Scientology as a church was on the basis of the money that L Ron took out of the organization. Also, if the money brought in for the week was divided among the staff, that would be enough to deny tax exempt status to the organization, no matter what kind of nonprofit they are.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that you had a good experience and it worked for you, but some of things that were happening on the upper levels, esp. while L Ron was around, were pretty questionable.

[ElaineinIN]

59. FYI... if anyone wants to look it up

Church of Scientology of California v. Commissioner, 83 TC 38, affirmed 823 F.2d 1310, cert denied 486 US 1015. In this case, the IRS revoked CSC's tax exempt status--the revocation was affirmed by the Tax Court (TC), the Tax Court's decision was affirmed, and the Supreme Court refused to hear the case.

A successor to CSC went through a similar process 92-1 USTC Paragraph 50,305... Church of Spiritual Technology. I believe its a Claims Court case.

Finally, Hernandez v. Commissioner, 490 US 680 (1989), where the SCOTUS determined that taxpayers do not get a charitable income tax deduction under Section 170 for auditing fees paid to Scientology, as its not a charitable contribution but a fee for services rendered.

PS... at some point in the late 1990s, the IRS and Scientology came to an understanding regarding all of this, and there is a settlement agreement somewhere, so I think some of the Scientology entities might now have exempt status. But at least this is what the IRS and the Courts thought of L Ron and his teachings ....

[springhill]

99. I really don't care that they don't make money.......

What I cared and do care about is that those who can't afford to pay the fee are asked to talk family members and friends into giving them the money. I know, because I finally had to just tell my brother, no more. It's not like I was rich either.

They were brainwashing him into believing that this was ok because nothing was more important than his scientology program, even if that meant exploiting the people he loved.

[question everything]

66. TIME magazine had a major cover story

some 10, 12 years ago - not sure - and it reported about the intimidation by the leaders: of former followers and of the reporter himself/herself.

This certainly was not an Ann Coulter-type story.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

32. I have a friend who left after 30 years in the cult. Many people

whom he was involved with while a member have turned their backs on him.

[johnaries]

19. you have to pay to find out.

I've read some of L. Ron Hubbard's science fiction.

That's right, he was a science fiction writer before he thought up Scientology. That should tell you something.

Anyway, he was an ok SF writer, but he thought he was one of the best. He would get upset that he didn't get as much recognition as Asimov, Heinlein, Clarke, etc.

So I don't know what it's all about, but I remembered it all started with his book Dyanetics. You can try reading it. Me, I don't trust any philosophy coming out of an egomaniac's mouth.

[Synnical]

22. $cientology Truth or Dare!

http://radaronline.com/fresh-intelligence/2005/06/21/index.php#report_001417

<snip>

The “thetans,” or alien ghosts, were implanted in earth’s volcanoes 75 million years ago by the evil intergalactic ruler Xenu, until the nasty buggers escaped and invaded the bodies of each and every one of us. New recruits like Katie Holmes, or “preclears,” answer the questions while hooked up to an E-meter—a crude, polygraph-like contraption—as a Church-sanctioned auditor records the subject’s responses for further expensive inquiry. We excerpted 20 of the list’s 343 questions in the premier issue of Radar, on newsstands now. For those playing along at home, here’s another verbatim sampling.

• Have you driven anyone insane?
• Have you ever killed the wrong person?
• Is anybody looking for you?
• Have you ever set a poor example?
• Did you come to Earth for evil purposes?
• Are you in hiding?
• Have you systematically set up mysteries?
• Have you ever made a practice of confusing people?
• Have you ever philosophized when you should have acted instead?
• Have you ever gone crazy?
• Have you ever sought to persuade someone of your insanity?
• Have you ever deserted, or betrayed, a great leader?
• Have you ever smothered a baby?
• Do you deserve to have any friends?
• Have you ever castrated anyone?
• Do you deserve to be enslaved?
• Is there any question on this list I had better not ask you again?
• Have you ever tried to make the physical universe less real?
• Have you ever zapped anyone?
• Have you ever had a body with a venereal disease? If so,
did you spread it?

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Endangered Specie]

27. explain these:

Censorship of the internet by software that scientologists are supposed to install:
http://www.xenu.net/archive/events/censorship/

operation snow white:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White

fair game:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_%28Scientology%29

Lisa McPherson:
http://www.lisamcpherson.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_McPherson

[zalinda]

38. I'll answer what I can

Censorship of the Internet: I can't tell you if that did or did not take place. The organization has a history of trying to shield it's people from negative or inaccurate writings about Scientology. I never quite understood why, but that's policy. It may stem back to what has happened earlier in the organization. A book called Dianology was written by a person who was a Scientologist, but didn't like the ethics part of the program. You see, ethics is a very important part of Scientology, because after a few releases you start to feel pretty powerful. So, if it did happen, it wasn't because they wanted to censor, but to protect. And, since it has only been reported by critics of Scientology, I don't know if I'd trust that it's true. Just as I wouldn't trust what Limbaugh says about liberals is true.

Operation Snow White: Again, I don't know all the facts, except I do know that the government had been hassling them with raids of various offices. It may be that some decided to take matters in their own hands. I do know that crime is not condoned in the church. And, I can give 2 examples. First, a staff member got a draft notice and was trying to get out of going. He was an ordained minister, but the government was not going to exclude him, so he decided to move to Canada. When the ethics officer found about it, he was told that if he moved to Canada, he would be kicked out of the church. I heard that he went into the army, but I can't say for sure as it's been many years ago. Second, was a guy who was dealing drugs and decided he was going to continue to do so, so he could pay for Scientology. He was told that if he did he would not be allowed to take classes. He threw the drugs away, and I do know that was true because I happened to be a friend of a friend of his. Were they kicked out of the church, yes, most definitely. Are they back in, maybe. You can get back in the church, but it is a long, difficult and humbling process.

Fair Game: I do know about fair game, as it was voided just about when I joined the staff in Detroit. What you need to know is that Hubbard wrote thousands of bulletins. We would get about 50 or so every week, and that's just what I saw. He often would correct a former bulletin, he never claimed to be infallible. I never saw fair game enacted, in the year I spent in Detroit or the 4 years I spent in LA. Could someone have dug it up and used it? Yeah, sure, but they would have been out ethics if they did. And they would be kicked out of the church. There are bad people who do get in to Scientology, just as there are bad people who get in to any religion, doesn't make the whole religion bad. As far as SP's (suppressive person) goes, the biggest example would be Karl Rove. An SP is a person who covertly tries to do you in, whether mentally or physically. Most of us know someone who pretends to be a friend and then we found out that they were doing some serious talking behind out back.

Lisa McPherson: I don't know anything about this. But, we are told that we are responsible for the condition we are in. From the little I read, it looks like this person was in trouble long before she died. Should she have been on drugs, maybe, I don't know. Would it have helped, would she have still died, I don't know. I know that Scientologists don't believe in drugs. Certain drugs are okay, but others are not. They aren't like Christian Scientists, but you could draw some parallels there. Should they have committed her to a metal institute and forgot about her, maybe. But, I think they were in a position of damn if you do and damn if you don't.

No one in Scientology is out to hurt anyone, quite the opposite is true. They believe that man is basically good, but that his reactive mind is short circuiting them to do bad things. These people are just as serious as a priest or nun when they join staff. They want to do good work and change the world into a world where hate no longer exists. I have never seen such dedication as staff members. Do some go overboard, of course, just as in any other religion. But, everyone seems to see only the bad things that some people have done, and publicize that.

Did you know that Scientology was the first to bring to light the abuses in nursing homes? Of course not, because they never bring attention to the things that they do that they believe in. I would not have known if it hadn't been for over hearing a conversation between 2 staff members in LA.

We know, as liberals, how the press can work for us or against us. There are so many out there who bang the drum on how bad Scientology is that we forget that there are millions more who have been helped. Not all people who get into Scientology stay, and they are not all being harassed. Scientologists are not cult members, quite the opposite. When we read or take courses, we are told that if something works for us, then keep it, if it doesn't then don't. We were never told that Hubbard was God, we were never told that we had to be like everyone else and we were never told how to run our lives. The only constant in Scientology is the ethics. Being ethically is the only way to live, that is the power.

zalinda

[dutchdemocrat]

88. Piss off.

No one in Scientology is out to hurt anyone, quite the opposite is true.

Piss off propagandist.

Really.

[zalinda]

90. How nice of you

I explain what I experienced for 5 years and I am called a propagandist. I'm not telling anyone to go join up, I'm saying that don't call something evil because there are people who say it is. If you don't want to agree, then don't, but it is really not necessary to call names.

Just as you could ask the Salem witches what they think of Christianity, you will find people in every religion that do bad things, that doesn't make the whole group bad. I knew many good people who gave up their lives and lived in poverty while on staff, in hopes of making a difference in the world. All I was/am trying to do is to give some insight about what Scientology is, from what I experienced.

zalinda

[Endangered Specie]

95. you wouldnt perchance still be a $cientologist?

because all of what Ive listed has been confirmed with a good deal of proof.

Scientology has been directly responsible for harm and death of real people:
http://www.scientology-kills.org/dead/dead.htm

[Endangered Specie]

23. Recommend reading...

(funny you mentioned Scientology, I have been reading about it since yesterday)

lets just say that they make bigger clowns/idiots than Bush in your sigline.

Links:
{
the main anti-Co$ site (this site is loaded :), its really all you need and half the links below are at xenu)
www.xenu.net

wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Scientology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology

operation snow white:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_snow_white

Time articles:
http://www.xenu.net/archive/media/time910605.html

this self-censorship they do will freak you out:
http://www.xenu.net/archive/events/censorship/wordlist.html

funny and concise reading:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=scientology&skip=0
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=scientology&skip=10

rotten.com, even funnier reading:
http://www.rotten.com/library/religion/scientology/

google caves into Co$
http://www.dailyrotten.com/articles/archive/290725.html

alt.religion.scientology is the 'official' newsgroup for anti-scientology

fair game:scared:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_%28Scientology%29
}

That should keep you busy, all you ever wanted to know and more :)

edit to add more

[Endangered Specie]

24. They are like the Borg.

our real life equivelent of the trek villians.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

34. From Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology#Beliefs_and_practices
Beliefs and practices
Main article: Scientology beliefs and practices

Scientology's doctrines were established by Hubbard over some 33 years from 1952 through to his death in January 1986, issued in the form of thousands of lectures, books, essays, and policies. Most of the basic principles of Scientology were set out during the first 15 years of its existence, with Hubbard devoting much of his later life to the more esoteric upper levels (or "Advanced Technologies") of the Scientology belief system. The church describes his actions as improving and expanding on the workability and use of these principles.

The central beliefs of Scientology (or rather the early teachings) are that a person is an immortal spiritual being (referred to as a thetan) who possesses a mind and a body, and that the person is basically good. The life one should lead is one of continual spiritual and ethical education, awareness, and improvement, so that he/she can be happy and achieve ultimate salvation, as well as being more effective in creating a better world. Scientology claims to offer specific methodologies to assist a person to achieve this.

Those that reach the higher teachings (OT III) within the Church of Scientology will learn all about Xenu, the evil intergalactic ruler who implanted "thetans" or alien spirits, in earth's volcanoes 75 million years ago, after which they escaped and invaded human bodies. The ultimate belief of Scientology is that you are possessed by the spirits of aliens murdered 75 million years ago by "Xenu" and you have to exorcise these spirits. The cost of reaching OT III approaches $360,000.

Another basic tenet of Scientology is that there are three basic interrelated (and intrinsically spiritual) components that are the very makeup of successful "livingness": affinity, reality (or agreement), and communication, which equate to understanding. Hubbard called this the "ARC triangle". Scientologists utilize ARC to enhance their lives, primarily based upon the belief that raising one aspect of the triangle increases the other two.

Other important teachings that even new Scientologists are likely to encounter include the existence of "suppressive persons", whose destructive actions can directly impede the Scientologist's progress, and the evils of psychiatry: Scientology says "psychs" have caused us grave problems for thousands of years.

In an attempt to clarify the concept of conscious, subconscious, and unconscious minds, Hubbard wrote that the mind of man is structured in two parts: the "analytical mind" and the "reactive mind". He described the analytical mind as the positive, rational, computing portion, while the "reactive mind", according to Hubbard, operates on a stimulus-response basis. Scientologists believe the reactive mind is the root of an individual's travail, as well as the root of mankind's inhumanity and inability to create lasting, prosperous, sane societies.

The central methodology of Scientology is called "auditing", (from the Latin root aud-, to listen), which is one-on-one communication with a Scientology-trained "auditor". The auditor assists a person to have realizations about himself and unravel the reactive portion of his mind, ie, emotional "charge", specific traumatic incidents, his own ethical transgressions, and bad decisions of his past that tend to lock him into a life not totally under his own control.

The Church states that the goal of Scientology is a world without war, criminals, and insanity, where good decent people have the freedom to reach their goals.

[BigBearJohn]

35. If you really are interested, then read Dianetics.

In my opinion, it's no worse than any of the other suppressive
religions on this planet.

[Skittles]

36. hey BigBear

remember the howls of derision that met that religious cult, the one where they committed suicide after convincing themselves spaceships would come and take them to some promised land? A lot of the people who though it was ludicrous think a woman had a baby without having sex, think a man arose from the dead, etc. They just don't get how someone looking in from the outside might see all of them as silly.

[LibDemAlways]

37. Scientologists actively recruit actors and

celebrities. Once they've got their claws in you, watch out. I used to work with a woman whose husband was a character actor. You'd probably recognize his face. They were approached by scientologists, but the husband wasn't interested. The wife was curious and was invited aboard a yacht, where she ended up being held against her will. She escaped in the middle of the night by jumping into the water of LA Harbor.

[DistressedAmerican]

51. That Is Some Story You Have There!

Why the wife would bwe interested is beyond me. But, them again so are Christianity, Judiasm, Islam, etc.

[leftofthedial]

39. it's about 90% money--$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ talks

and about 10% just enough mumbo jumbo to qualify as a "religion"

That's about the same ratio as conventional organized religion

[gauguin57]

42. Here's the Time magazine package that got me upset back in the early '90s

It's worth a read. Especially the end, where it shows what Scientologists will do to those who try to investigate them (and to their family and friends!).

http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Fishman/time-behar.html

[DistressedAmerican]

52. Here's A Quote And A Half!

"Eleven top Scientologists, including Hubbard's wife, were sent to prison in the early 1980s for infiltrating, burglarizing and wiretapping more than 100 private and government agencies in attempts to block their investigations. In recent years hundreds of longtime Scientology adherents -- many charging that they were mentally of physically abused -- have quit the church and criticized it at their own risk. Some have sued the church and won; others have settled for amounts in excess of $500,000. In various cases judges have labeled the church "schizophrenic and paranoid" and "corrupt, sinister and dangerous."

[fishwax]

60. Thanks for posting that

an interesting and informative read.

[jzodda]

46. Get ready to be shocked

They believe that we are souls in exile from the Great Galactic Emperor. This is 100% true and it forms the foundation of their upper levels of teaching. I forgot the name of the emperor but they believe that are bodies are inhabited by these souls who escaped the galactic Tyrany

EDIT: The Emperor's name is Xenu

now I remember

[rman]

48. they believe in aliens

though understandably, they are not very up-front about it.

[noonwitch]

50. Is the Process still around?

Scientology for satanists. Charles Manson was a scientologist once. They probably don't like to talk about that.

[RandomKoolzip]

53. Good point.

I've just been re-reading "The Family, " Ed Sanders's book on Manson.

Bruce Davis, one of Manson's henchmen, was in England taking scientology courses when the Tate-LaBianca murders went down. Later he killed two people living in a Scientology dorm in LA.

Manson got a lot of his brainwashing/suggestion techniques from Scientology. Apparently he was really into it while in prison, before he started "The Family."

Also, there's all sorts of unpleasant links between Scientology and Jean Brayton's OTO, the Process (like you mentioned," and other icky satanoid groups.

Plus, Scientologists believe that aliens from space have enslaved the human race and we need to use "e-meters" to "clear" ourselves. That may not be evil, but it's fuckin' wacky as all get out, and the fact that you have to spend thousands of dollars to get that info strikes me as a little bit batshitcrazy.

[QuettaKid]

54. slightly off topic.....

While the The NY Daily News’ legal department was passed out underneath tables at various Hamptons nightclubs this weekend, Ben “Gatecrasher” Widdicombe snuck this highly anonymous, completely inscrutable tidbit into his weekend column:


So here’s what I’m hearing about that relationship.
A source VERY close to the deal is saying there’s a contract.
It’s worth $5 million.
It’s for five years.
There will be no sex.
The deal was sealed June 7.
That’s what I’m hearing.

[zalinda]

72. Manson was never a Scientologist

I happen to be in LA at the time. Manson came into the LA org and attended an into lecture. When the recruiters talked to him they thought he was really weird and sent him on his way. He left ranting about how he was much better than they were. A few months later he was arrested, and the recruiters were scared silly that they could have been his target for telling him that he wasn't welcome.

zalinda

[RandomKoolzip]

86. That contradicts what Ed Sanders and other insiders have to say.

Apparently Manson was schooled in Scientology by fellow inmates while housed in Terminal Island in the mid-60's.

And Bruce Davis, Manson's "Vice President" while M was on trial, was a Scientology student who managed to murder a couple who resided at a place called "Thetan Manor" in 1969.

There are many connections between the Family and Scientology. Not the least of which was Manson's assimilation of Scientologist brainwashing techniques in his indoctrinationg Family members.

[mrfrapp]

55. Links

http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/

http://www.xenu.net/

http://www.whyaretheydead.net/

http://www.clambake.org/archive/books/bfm/bfmconte.htm

[insane_cratic_gal]

58. How are Aliens any worse

then a Man or god born from a virgin?? Why is one more believable then the other? Stories, religion is riddled with them, myth folklore, used to guide a society.

Your balking at aliens, yet your ok with Men who part an ocean, talk to a burning bush, get implanted without sex, a star that suddenly appears in the sky.

I've always heard that Scientology was based on a bet. Hubbard was bet he couldn't come up with a religion and have followers. He won.

I'm not going to condemn anyone for what they believe. We have party that does that already.

[onager]

62. Some ludicrous fairy tales are more acceptable than others...

...as you'll find out very quickly around here.

ie., ludicrous fairy tales that the majority believe are given a sort of special status. They're automatically exempt from criticism.

And BTW, be careful. Comparing the majority 'Murican religious cult to a minority, off-brand cult will get you accused of religion-bashing.

I suspect that the $cientology "bet" story is an urban legend. I've heard it attributed to several people.

FWIW, Harlan Ellison always said he was a witness when L. Ron Hubbard uttered something like this: "Why are we wasting our time, writing science fiction for a penny a word? We should start our own religion and get rich."

[beam me up scottie]

64. And don't quote Nietzsche,

can't forget Nietzsche.

[Pockets]

67. In their defense...

If I had a choice I think I would select Scientology over Christianity. The negative reactions in this thread are mostly anecdotal. For instance references to corrupt leaders in Scientology can be compared to corrupt Christian leaders (one could point to wars started over Christianity, priests raping boys, Christian churches talking elderly life savings, etc). The only difference is, the way I see it, Christian leaders are supposed to set some kind of moral example, whereas I think Scientology leaders are more along the lines of program directors, and not necessarily meant for others to aspire to be like.

So, Scientology is a made up religion, what religion isn't made up? I would prefer to deal with a religion that admits it's made up that one that that doesn't. At least Scientology was made up within the past century, instead of 2000 years ago, so it may apply better to modern circumstances. Scientologists know that Hubbard wrote science fiction stories -- he's not made out to be like one of the 12 apostles who Christians believe had a direct connection with God. Okay, I think MOST Scientologists know their religion was made up despite the fact that some might not.

What matters is that, although sometimes they might fail, their goal is to better its memebers and those around them.

[Endangered Specie]

96. In that case, I dare you to join up... sign up for the SeaOrg special...

if your still alive after escaping... PM me

[earth mom]

73. Scientology is no different than other religions.

I really don't see what's so wrong with Scientology and what the big brohaha is about. I see Scientology as no different than any other religion. Except that the celebrities that practice it seem to be happier and nicer and care about people FAR MORE than their Christian counterparts. Go figure! And Christian churches expect a tithe of 10% or more. And the Kabbalah center in L.A. has all sorts of Kabbalah products for sale and lots of donations from it's rich members. All faiths need and expect the support of their members.

With Scientology, people are totally freaked out by the "alien" angle which may or may not be true. How is believing in aliens any different that worshiping some guy from thousands of years ago that supposedly arose from the dead? If I HAD to choose, I'd go with believing in the alien and following Scientology. And for the record, I'm not a believer in aliens-I know very little about the subject. :shrug:

[ElaineinIN]

76. Donation versus Extortion

I agree with you on the substance of the religion... from a 3rd party perspective, virgin birth and being raised from the dead is no more fantastic than aliens, and what you believe in this regard is ultimately a matter of faith. So I can't and don't criticize Scientologists for their faith, and I hope that it gives them comfort and enlightenment.

My issue is the financial aspect. Yes, many Christian churchs request a tithe and and many religions sell things, etc. But, at least in the churches where I have attented (RC and Episcopal), financial contributions are truly optional. There is nothing that I need to buy to be a better Christian, find God.. etc., whatever your measure is. If I am homeless, I am welcome. If I can't contribute, I am welcome. My monetary situation with the Church does not affect my relationship with God. Do they want us to contribute--of course! Does my salvation depend on it... no.

From everything I've read about Scientology, you can't improve your well-being and "clear" to higher levels unless and until you pay for the audits. This concept of spiritual extortion is very troubling to me, and distinguishes it from other religions, in my mind. I can't get my mind the fact that if you are poor, you're basically unable or not worth saving.

[zalinda]

80. That's not true, because you can join staff

When you are on staff you get free training and auditing. And just think of it this way. A Christian church will have hundreds of people who give a tithe every week to the church, and church services may only be a couple times a week. With Scientology they are open from about 9 to 9, 7 days a week, to accommodate peoples schedules. They also have a lot more staff than a minister and maybe cleaning staff. Classes are small and auditing is one on one. They do, or did have Sunday services and anyone is welcome to attend. If all they did was Sunday services and a one day a week study group at night, I could see where you would think they are living a rich life.

zalinda

[B Calm]

77. They believe in spirits.. Indian ghosts, etc

[BiggJawn]

78. Read "Dianetics".

It's the same thing as if a "religion" sprung up surrounding the events in "The Hobbit".

[Djinn]

83. or a few other great works of fiction like

the Bible and the Koran

[PATRICK]

84. Hubbard

supposedly was an Intel op stationed in Asia. In his spare time(?) he probably developed this amalgam of modern science and neutral eastern mind/soul development which is more method(a la American self improvement success fads). Fake Buddhism with psychobabble.

Not surprisingly those elements which would likely lead to an enlightened
liberating and open minded approach were blended into a strongly reinforced cult system of elitist mind control, secret society style, Freemason-like power, money empire shielded from taxes and control, social invasiveness one would expect of a CIA guy. One who never really believes the stuff he dishes out for ulterior motives.

The science fiction establishment(Hubbard rode in on the Golden Age) was dismayed by this crossing the line to twist the line into something far worse than charlatanism, something worse than the futuristic religions speculated on in books like "Dune".

[onager]

101. Intel op stationed in Asia? BWA-HA-HA!

:rofl:

Hubbard was in the Navy, where he was responsible for two famous incidents:

1. He used an "abandoned" island for target practice. The island was actually Mexican territory, which caused some diplomatic complaints.

2. He reported sighting a Japanese submarine which turned out to be a floating log. But he tied up a number of ships and naval units for hours with his hysterical claims. After that, IIRC, the Navy transferred him to command of an LWD (Large Wooden Desk).

Oh, and after his discharge, he spent years lying and trying to get free government money for "wounds sustained in combat." Twue Bewievers still insist he was blinded in combat and healed himself, using early $cientology "tech."

He later created a huge mythology about his background which his gullible followers bought hook, line and sinker. (Big surprise there.) I don't remember all the details, but his Official $cientology Bio has him winning all sorts of medals and being in all sorts of combat.

The "intel op" yarn came about because El Ron took a vacation to Asia when he was still in his teens, IIRC.

All this is in the excellent book Bare-Faced Messiah by Russell Miller. You can read the whole thing on-line.

Miller faced years of harassment, legal and otherwise, from the kooks for writing this book. The "Church" (spit) managed to force some changes in the U.S. edition, with their usual barratrous legal nonsense. The UK edition was published uncut.

[Shallah Kali]

79. article | Cruise's Scientology hard sell turn off Johansson?

I can't believe I am posting this gossip :o

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0621people0621.html

After two hours' worth, Cruise invited Johansson to dinner. But he didn't have anything intimate in mind.

"Cruise opened a door to reveal a second room full of upper-level Scientologists who had been waiting to dine with the pair, at which point the cool-headed ingénue politely excused herself," Radar reports.

The site also reports that Johansson was only one stop on Cruise's pre-Holmes invasion tour; other young actresses said to be on his hit-on list include Jessica Alba, Kate Bosworth and Lindsay Lohan.

[spanone]

82. Many years ago I went to a Scientology meeting in Los Angeles

It was basically a recruiting seminar. They were extremely vague about what you gained but were very specific that it would cost a lot of money to attain the different levels of attainment. It was creepy.

[Algorem]

91. Engrams!Ahhhheee!These freaking engrams!

[Zynx]

92. Pay them $200K. Then you'll find out.

[lala_rawraw]

97. Fake religion started by sci fi writer...

L Ron Hubbard

[Endangered Specie]

98. Oh, they also arent very original:

their official symbol:

[kiki]

100. Craziest of all...

...they beleive Hubbard was a decent writer.

I've read some Hubbard, and I've read some Shatner. Tough call which was worse.

[seabeyond]

102. i asked a friend for the higher in scientology. posted in another thr

this is a friend who's parent fell into this in the 70's. she is still dealing with the anger she has with her parents because of it. since she has been a part from earliest of days, and has rejected it, i thought she would be much better than i to explain the higher. kinda long. but she took my question seriously. probably was good for her to think about this. so she can let go of some of her anger......at her parents becoming sheep to this orginization

"there is a lot higher in scn....I saw people who were living in gutters and on drugs rise out and empower themselves and raise self esteem

no drugs, no alcohol "permitted"

it seems to me that it was created as a way for people to break out of their old cycles, old patterns of living....by bringing an awareness....to raise their awareness, and gave tools to do so. it seemed like the idea was to empower people, and give them tools to do that also....practical tools that could be used in everyday living.

the basic tenets are core things in the higher.....
.such as
--the power of thought and the power of intent.
--that each person has a choice....choices in how to live their lives. and bringing in power of thought and intent, can create your own living experience
--that we are beings....not our body, not our mind, not our soul, and that we are eternal. we have a body, we have a mind, we have a soul
--that we have lived other lives and often that things that happened during those other lives may still be affecting us in this life. but....given tools so that could look at those and release them.
--affinity, reality, communication form a triangle....if any is out of balance then the other two are out of balance also...the three combined to create understanding
example of each person has different reality....if can communicate to each other can bring an affinity (point of acceptance, I suppose) and create an understanding even though realities are different. lots of exercises for communication, in projecting yourself to another, so as to be heard (after all this, and think of my mom and how she goes to not able to hear her, lol)
--each of us is here for a reason....a purpose
--we pick our biological family
--issues such as pain, suffering, fears, etc can be released. can be tracked back to an original incident/event, and once look at that, the emotion/charge is released.
--physical symptoms, illnesses, diseases are psychosomatic.....meaning that is reflection of something going on internally, or something that is being held onto, such as anger, fear, etc may also be related to something that happened in another life. releasing the "charge" off of the events/incidents promoted physical healing
--when learning, must understand the meanings/definitions of words....if don't, then creates a block and miss what comes next, or miss the grasp in a concept.
--everybody is created equal (thus a promotion of respect for life and for living creatures and for other humans)
--you cannot change another, you can only make change within yourself. if you feel emotion (fear, anger, etc) towards another, then there is something that is being triggered within you by the other person"