Any one believe the U2 was shot down by Iran?

[still_one]

They are very silent on what happened. Why didn't the pilot have time to bail out?

[ConfuZed]

1. I believe it was shot down IN iran :)

[rzemanfl]

3. Wouldn't that technically be "over" Iran? n/t

[ConfuZed]

14. *grumbles* Yes

:rofl:

[rzemanfl]

2. Me for one. n/t

[Sanity Claws]

4. I don't

If Iran had shot the plane, I think it would be crowing about it. I can think of no reason why Iran would not publicize it, if that were true.

[still_one]

13. I disagree, I think they would keep a low profile

[Sanity Claws]

16. Why? What's the advantage to Iran of keeping it quiet?

I think it would be to its advantage to bring it up in the UN, to the EU, everywhere, and ask for protection against the invader.

[Kool Kitty]

48. Because if they crow about it,

the little emperor could use it as an excuse to bomb the shit out of them. That's what I think.

[bleever]

5. Are we really flying that kind of plane over Afghanistan?? Why?

I don't think so.

[kliljedahl]

27. Why not, that's where UBL is...

or Pakistan, Syria, Sumatra, etc. etc. etc.


Keith’s Barbeque Central

[ebayfool]

43. Gets around quite well, doesn't he? LOL

Considering he's supposed to be the most hunted man in the world!

[POAS]

36. Gotta keep an eye on our opium trade routes.

[ellenfl]

6. that's probably what * will say so he has

an excuse to attack iran.

ellen fl

[Botany]

7. I do

it was over a country in southwestern Asia ......

this country would have a civil war if we start a war in Iran .....
these fuckers are nutz!

[Cocoa]

8. I was thinking Pakistan

the line about "host nation sensitivities" made me think Pakistan.

[ewagner]

9. I saw a documentary

about the U-2 as an airplane and learned a few things about it.

The nickname is "Dragon Lady" because she will kill you if you're not careful. The flight "envelope" at altitude is very, very narrow and landing it is a very "zen-like" experience, primarily because of the long wingspan and bicycle landing gear.

I haven't seen anything to suggest that it was shot down. It's a difficult airplane to fly and there is a lot that could have gone wrong.

There is a lot of secrecy around the missions and that's understandable. But it is equally true that the location of the mission is suspicious.

[kevinmc]

10. I've Been Thinking the Same Thing n/t

[Rick Myers]

11. Seems odd to use a U2 in a tactical situation

Maybe there was a gap in Sat coverage and a need for a look at something, but it seems odd. Of course, we were DUMB enough to retire the SR-71, so...

MSNBC-GE reports a Pentagon 'source' says it crashed on approach in the UAE. That would make sense, since at altitude the pilot could easily get out of the plane.

[lenidog]

40. The problems with satellites is that anyone good at math

can predict when they are flying over and well at least try to hide everything or make it look like normal every day activity

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

12. Naaah. Our gummint would never lie to us.

Would it?

[Kraklen]

15. I wouldn't be the least surprise.

But why wouldn't Iran announce it?

And if the WH was trying to provoke the war, why wouldn't they be playing it up?

[Rick Myers]

19. You're right...

Iranians would have been jumping up and down on the wreckage and screaming at the UN.

It crashed on approach in the UAE.

[kentuck]

17. no..

I don't think there was a plane shot down.. It was simple public propaganda to make someone think something that is not.

[ThomWV]

18. Who Cares Where The Junk Pile Is?

I don't give a shit where the plane came down. I want to know who had the ability to bring it down?

[Rick Myers]

21. Crashed on approach to the UAE

It's a legendarily touchy plane to fly, and PARTICULARLY land.

Explains why pilot did not survive.

[Kraklen]

22. Who had the ability?

Anybody with 45 year old military technology.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kraklen]

28. People with turbins (sic) are idiots?

That sort of racist nonsense is what got us into the quagmire in Iraq now.

[Rick Myers]

30. That's not exactly correct

Even if you can GET an AA missile to 70,000 feet, you still have to detonate damn close to the plane. SAMs with that range/ability are not as availible as other missile systems.

[Kraklen]

32. It worked for the Soviets in 1960.

No reason to suspect the Iranians couldn't do it today.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

37. If you believe the official US Government story.

[Kraklen]

38. Well, and the official USSR story

after the fall of the Soviet Union.

But then again, we haven't heard Santa Claus' side of the story.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

45. Typical sarcastic response from you. Here's a link for you to....

...read and consider without your usual dose of nastiness:

THE SECRET TEAM
The CIA and Its Allies in Control of
the United States and the World

L. FLETCHER PROUTY
Col., U.S. Air Force (Ret.)
<http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ST/[/b>

Read the ENTIRE chapter linked below on the U-2 incident of May 6, 1960, and then tell me what you think you know.

Chapter 20: Krushchev's Challenge: The U-2 Dilemma
<http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ST/STchp20.html>

QUOTES:

This course of events had more impact upon the United States than upon the Soviet Union. The U.S. Government made much of the fact that the U-2 was an "unarmed civilian aircraft" and that it was flown by a civilian. However, in his book, The Craft of Intelligence, Allen Dulles makes much of the fact that operation of such sophisticated aircraft could scarcely have been kept a secret. It wasn't! As he wrote, "Sooner or later, certainly this would have leaked out." Since this was so certain, then why did the U.S. Government have to give out untrue cover stories? And why did they have to permit Powers to carry so much identification when it would have been better to limit the leak as much as possible? Even if he had died, they would have had all the information they needed. How did it happen that they broke with policy procedures for that special flight by letting him take off loaded with incriminating evidence that proved he was a U.S. spy pilot? Who was it who wanted this special U-2 flight on May 1, 1960, two weeks before the summit conference, to fail and then to become so glaring an admission of guilt when it did fail that it would inevitably doom the summit conference along with it? The incidence of these things, too many things, give weight to the thought that this flight was intended to be something rather special.

....snip...

The Soviets would know the plane was there; as we learned later, they knew of almost every flight during the previous four years. They had tracked and forced down countless U.S. aircraft in preceding years. It has been known for decades that Soviet radar is as good as or better than ours. They tracked the U-2 planes, but could not reach them at their extreme altitude. So the U-2 could communicate, not in the usual manner, but with flash, or "squirt", coded transmissions at predetermined times. In spite of the rather strange way in which the news of the loss was announced, there is no reason why we should believe that some authorities in this country did not know that it had occurred, and perhaps they knew exactly why it went down. Yet they ordered the administrator of NASA to give out an unreasonable cover story, which even said the plane had come from Turkey.

When the plane went down, its signals faded and it was lost from tracking radar. The engine had stopped, and Powers was gliding the plane down from its extreme altitude, which was so high that the air's oxygen content was insufficient to support combustion. The normal combustion of the jet engine at that altitude had to be assisted by the infusion of a trace of raw hydrogen from a small liquid hydrogen cryogenic storage bottle. If by some chance the engine either coughed itself out, or if something happened to this slight hydrogen supply and the engine flamed out, it could not be restarted at that altitude. The pilot would have had no recourse other than to let down and see if he could restart the engine at some lower altitude. The evidence that the engine would not restart even at thirty thousand feet indicates that the trouble was most likely hydrogen deficiency and not a normal fuel flameout. Had it been a simple flameout and had there been plenty of hydrogen, the engine should have restarted, as others had in similar circumstances.

When the plane did not restart, Powers was forced to let it continue to spiral toward the earth, and then at a safer altitude either bail out (a high altitude bailout is dangerous and violent) or continue on down to the ground. Actually, some of the early pictures of the U-2 showed an aircraft that was relatively undamaged, when one considers that the Russian story was that it was hit by a rocket in the air and then crashed into the ground. We may never really know whether Powers parachuted because he was hit by Russian rockets or gunfire or whether he parachuted simply to leave a plane that was doomed to crash anyhow. The elaborate pictures of the plane, which the Soviets released at the trial, show neither bullet damage nor rocket fragment damage, although at that point neither would be important; the plane was going to come down. If it had not been on the way down, neither rockets nor bullets would have been able to bring it down in those days.


If you still think you need to hear Santa Klaus' side of this story, feel free to contact him since you seem to think he's real.

[Rick Myers]

42. Just checked some info

Iran has about 25-30 SAM launchers with 150 missiles capable of that kind of shot. Not much, considering most of them are concentrated around Teheran and on guard to cover their ASMs at Hormuz. We'd just AVOID those areas.

This is a tin foil hat story. It was an old dog.

BUT, here's a new spark for the consipracy. It is assumed all U-2s are now operated by the CIA. Since it is considered a 'utility' aircraft, it can be flown by 'contractors.'

Ack!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

47. U-2s were basically managed by the CIA from the beginning....

...they had pilots who supposedly had "officially" resigned from the Air Force, and flew the U-2s as "civilians". If they were shot down and survived, they were supposed to tell their captors that they were civilians...basically a spy. The truth was that the pilots were still employed by the USAF, and I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the same ploy was being used today. It's called "sheep dipping".

I think the modern version of the U-2 has a much higher ceiling than the older models that flew in the late 1950s into the 1970s. I doubt that the Iranian SAMs have any more chance of hitting the modern U-2 than the Soviets had of hitting the U-2 that Gary Powers flew.

[KansDem]

20. Any similarities to the Gary Powers incident?

Gary Powers and the U-2 Incident

Following World War II, the relations between the United States and the Soviet Union grew increasingly wary. The USSR did not agree to a U.S. 'Open Skies' proposal in 1955 and relations continued to deteriorate. The U.S. instituted high altitude reconnasaince flights over the Soviet Union because of this aura of mistrust. The U-2 was the plane of choice for the spying missions. The CIA took the lead, keeping the military out of the picture to avoid any possibilities of open conflict. By 1960, the U.S. had flown numerous 'successful' missions over and around the U.S.S.R. However, a major incident was about to occur. On May 1, 1960, a U-2 spy plane piloted by Francis Gary Powers was brought down near Svedlovsk, Soviet Union. This event had a lasting negative impact on U.S. - U.S.S.R. relations. The details surrounding this event are to this day still shrouded in mystery.

Mysteries
The conventional story given to explain the crash of the U-2 and the subsequent capture of Gary Powers is that a surface-to-air missile brought down the plane. However, the U-2 spy plane was constructed to be unassailable by conventional weapons. The major benefit of these high altitude planes was their ability to stay above enemy fire. If the plane was flying at its proper height and had been shot down, many question how Powers could have survived. It would have been very likely that he would have died in the explosion or from the high altitude ejection. Therefore, many individuals question the validity of this explanation. Several alternative theories have been put forward to explain the downing of Gary Powers spy plane:

Gary Powers was flying his plane below the high flying reconnasaince altitude and was hit by anti-aircraft fire.

Gary Powers actually landed the plane in the Soviet Union.

There was a bomb on board the plane.

The newest and probably least probable explanation offered for the downing of the planes comes from the pilot of a Soviet plane involved in the incident. He claims to have been ordered to ram the spy plane. Admittedly there is little evidence to support this claim. However, it further muddies the waters of explanation. Even though the cause of the incident is shrouded in mystery there is little doubt to the short and long term consequences of the event.

Consequences
The Paris Summit between President Eisenhower and Nikita Krushchev collapsed in large part because Krushchev demanded an apology that Eisenhower was unwilling to give.
Gary Powers was convicted of espionage and sentenced to 3 years imprisonment and 7 years of hard labor. He only served 1 year 9 months and 9 days before being traded for the Soviet spy Colonel Rudolph Ivanovich Abel.
This incident set in motion a pattern of mistrust that culminated in the Cuban Missile Crisis, a time when U.S.-U.S.S.R. relations reached an all time low. No one can predict if the Cold War might have ended sooner had the U-2 incident not occured.
(more)
http://americanhistory.about.com/library/weekly/aa061801a.htm

One wonders what really happended to this pilot.

[Rick Myers]

24. NONE!

Nothing to see here. Return to your homes, citizens... The U-2s are all old birds. Crashed on approach to United Arab Emerates.

ON EDIT: MAybe it WAS flying it's MISSION over Iran??? Possible!!

[KansDem]

31. Yeah, and the "bomb on board" has a familiar ring to it.

Considering "Operation Northwoods," why couldn't a U2 on routine mission over Iran be "sacrificed" to ratchet up the war rhetoric?

Look at the Gulf of Tolkien incident and 9/11. :scared:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

49. Read my Post #45....it actually took less than that to...

...bring Powers' plane down.

[ThomWV]

23. A Different Question

I recall seeing various TV shows about our history of stealth or at least advanced aircraft in which the U2 was discussed. There never were a whole lot of them and the show gave the disposition of all the ones still flying - mostly doing high level weather duty as I recall. So, tell me, of the available fleet, who owned the one that came down? I only ask because as far as I can recall the Military relinquished all of their's years ago.

[Rick Myers]

29. The USAF turned over some of the U-2S to NASA, but

there are probably a total of 50+ in flying condition. Last reported record of Flight Hours for ALL U-2s was 1997 with 13,900+ hours flown.

That comes out to 278 hours per aircraft.

They still fly every day.

[KG]

25. sound like maybe his oxygen system failed

there aint much to breathe at 70k

[Rick Myers]

33. The airframe was over 30 years old

Plus modifications... IT CRASHED on approach.

Can we take off the tin foil hats now?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

34. Oh, PLEASE don't start with that stuff!

[Tsiyu]

35. Here we go...n/t

[yella_dawg]

39. The odds that the U2 was shot down are slim.

I say that as the designer of the current electronic warfare suite. Since about 1997, the Dragonlady has been extremely hard to hit. Just ask Iraq.

Anything is possible, but anyone who got a hit on the U2 has scary technology.

As for what it was doing? The U2 is all over the place. They've been over the middle east since Gulf I at least.

[true_notes]

41. To My Knowledge

U2 Pilots, if they deem necessary will commit suicide if they feel that the information and their lives are in danger of being compromised by the "enemy". Now, in Gary Power's case (He's the guy that got shot down by the Soviets) the information he was carrying was that of a routine spy route over the USSR. I feel this guy had something important on his cameras and in his head. A DOD sensitive mission, and one that would be worth a pilot's life in their heads. I do agree that he was downed over Iran, because we are actually on the ground in Afghanistan, and we can use low level recon flights to gather information, because we dominate the airspace.

The DOD is covering this story up. People, we are inching closer to an Iranian war.

This is just my opinion based off my military knowledge.

[Zuni]

44. planes crash

it happens sometimes

[Rick Myers]

46. Amen

g'nite! :toast: