Strong language makes for a strong party.

[Kurovski]

In an AOL poll about the squabble between Cheney and Dean, they ask whether such a fight makes politics "more appealing" or "less appealing"

The majority said that it makes it less appealing. (Even while choosing their favorite fighter in the poll.)

I don't really believe that folks are being entirely honest, As Americans are obsessed with fights and sides, and winning and losing in every other aspect of culture, entertainment, sports, even in a divorce, fights with friends, or problems at work, etc.

We love a beautifully executed roundhouse punch, and the Republicans have been taking advantage of that for decades.

It has always been that way in America. We are free to fight this way, and so we do it. The founders fought wars of words unmercifully.

Why are Dems so often timid to honor this American tradition? And more interestingly, why are Republicans so interested in supporting that timidity?

It's better to fight with ideas and strongly stated positions, as our founders' hoped, than with actual cudgels, which is pretty much the history of the world.

Here's the poll

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20050622102009990004&ncid=NWS00010000000001

[AX10]

1. People (sheeple) LIE!

:eyes:

At heart, people love to see a good fight. Democrats need to learn how to fight with the Republicans. People want a strong party, period!!!

[Kurovski]

2. Can I get an AMEN!!

[newswolf56]

3. I think the "less appealing" vote was a reference to...

...the profoundly disgusting image of adult politicians moronically exchanging insults about mothers -- which as far as I am concerned is only one tiny step above mother-swearing itself -- this nonsense, rather than pointedly debating the issues. I know that's why I voted "less appealing" in the poll: and it's not even the mother insults per se -- its the fact the entire national political debate has deteriorated to nothing but Jerry Springer bread-and-circus namecalling.

I want to hear about issues -- what the Democratic party plans to do to stop America's headlong slide into Third World monopolist oligarchy, what the party plans to do to reign in ever-increasing plutocratic malevolence, what it plans to do about Islamic jihadist terrorism, how it plans to restore our economy from the ever-worsening fossil-fuel disaster. I don't give a damn about some politician's mother...

This is not hypocrisy; it is rather a defiant refusal to be part of the problem.

[Kurovski]

4. See, I thought it was in reference to the fact that

Cheney's pitiful comments were the best he could do to counter Dean's comments about the Republican party.

And those original comments made by Dean made reference to no one's mother.

Furthermore, Dean said nothing about Cheney's mother, even after Cheney desperately dragged dean's momma into it.

And here you've stated that Dean has exchanged insults about mothers.
you even implied that Dean has behaved like a moron for saying something he didn't say.

Dems would have a better chance if they weren't so timid and fearful of facing bullies. Watch the fight, watch the footwork, and watch the referee.

We do the repub's work for them sometimes.

BTW. Dean talks issues when he can grab the podium from Corporate Media.

And finally, whether we feel disgust for the fight or not, the R's will continue the pounding. We haven't won by sitting sweetly on the sidelines, hoping that truth alone will out.

[newswolf56]

5. Please don't misunderstand! I totally agree with...

...Dean's comments about today's Republicans and their instinctive aversion to honest work. But it seemed to me that instead of hammering his comments home -- focusing on the worsening economic gap resulting from monopolist/GOP (God's Oppressive Plutocracy) warfare on working families -- Dean got all defensive and backed off. At least that was surely the impression I got from the media. (If that impression was wrong, I stand corrected -- and thank you.)

[Kurovski]

6. I think there will have to be some "lowering of standards"

to get the message across. I know that it is very distasteful to some, and I do respect that.

Just continue to keep an eye on the referee (media)in these dust-ups.

I will look for Dean's full statement in response to Cheney's irrelevant comments and post it here for you.

All I ask is that you look for the truth Dean strives to get out to the media in these events. Even if you have to hold your nose, keep on an even keel and see how the Republicans and the Corporate media operate, and how Dean attempts to jab, dance, parry, thrust, or whatever.

The media will often make it look as though Dean ( Durbin, etc, )are backing down from their original assertions, as it serves their purpose of controlling speech and creating the perception, in the case of Dean, that he is both 'weak" and "unthinking'.

Respectfully, K

[Kurovski]

7. Here are Dean's comments:

"We are going to be much tougher and in-your-face with the Republicans when they say things that aren't true," Dean said, in an apparent response to criticism outside and inside the Democratic Party that he is using over-the-top language to rally his party.

Dean also responded directly to Cheney, who last week said of Dean, "Maybe his mother loved him, but I've never met anybody who does."

"I don't care if Dick Cheney likes my mother or not; we are going to fight back," Dean told a boisterous crowd of about 300 Democrats at the Boston Park Plaza Hotel. "I think it's great that Dick Cheney went after me. At least they know there's a Democratic Party that's not going to put up with this stuff anymore.

"As the head of the Democratic Party, I will not be lectured about morals by Tom DeLay and Rush Limbaugh." he said, referring to the House majority leader and the prominent conservative radio host.

also:

"My view is FOX News is a propaganda outlet for the Republican Party and I don't comment on FOX News," Dean said. That was in response to vice president Dick Cheney calling Howard Dean "over the top" on Fox News on Sunday.

And this: http://www.political-news.org/breaking/11852/dean-renews-attacks-on-republicans.html


--That's not the speech of someone backing down.

[newswolf56]

11. Thank you for the links. As usual, the reality is...

...somewhat different than the (mis)impression given by monopolist media.

[Kurovski]

13. Also take note of how AOL consciously skewed

your perception by editing the Dean quote. Here is how AOL presented it:

"I don't care if Dick Cheney likes my mother or not...I think it's great that Dick Cheney went after me"

Here is the full quote:

"I don't care if Dick Cheney likes my mother or not; we are going to fight back. I think it's great that Dick Cheney went after me. At least they know there's a Democratic Party that's not going to put up with this stuff anymore."

The entire poll page is set up to reduce it all to the level Cheney wished it to remain at. it's designed to make it all look silly, if not offensive.

[cynatnite]

12. I thought cheney mentioning Dean's mother like this was tacky

I don't mind political fights, but I think it exposes the level of his character.

I do hate it when it gets to this level. I'd rather fight, bitch and complain about the politicians themselves and the idiotic and insane things they do.

This is why I loathe attacks on bush daughters.

[Cocoa]

8. it's not symmetrical

the GOP relies on insults because their politics are not in the interest of their voters.

They are deliberately degrading the political process, because a high-minded political process would be the end of them.

[earthboundmisfit]

9. Right on, Howard. We've gotta quit ENABLING the thugs.

Being polite and taking the high road only enabled the bastards to trample our nation. Yep. Howard Dean DOES speak for me. :patriot:

[Kurovski]

10. Actually, and I suppose ironically,

Dean is indeed taking the high ground by hammering away at the truth.

It's interesting that some think that that will be disastrous for the Dem party. Particularly when it comes to republicans who love Dean because they think he's a bad idea. (or pretend that he is out of fear.)

It makes sense that they would believe that the truth, stated plainly and bluntly is a detriment.

[Kurovski]

14. Shameless kick

...of course it appears today that "strong language" isn't working all that well for Karl Rove.

I suppose lying might have something to do with that.

By the way, the poll could use a de-freepling:

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20050622102009990004&ncid=NWS00010000000001