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PandasThumb.org: Dover textbook case showing signs of a pending ID crackup

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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 01:27 PM
Original message
PandasThumb.org: Dover textbook case showing signs of a pending ID crackup
Edited on Thu Jun-23-05 01:29 PM by BurtWorm
Three "Intelligent Design" experts were recently dismissed from the Dover, Pennsylvania, case in which an ID textbook was mandated to be used in a biology class, ostensibly because of a disagreement about "legal representation." It's more likely that the experts, representing the carefully laid out "non-theological" case for ID that has been taking shape in the last 10-15 years to make it more compatible to the Constitution, have had their case hostilely taken over by the overtly conservative-Christian Thomas More Law Center, thus imperiling the stealth strategy ID was specifically created for.


:popcorn:

Here's how Ed Bryant of PandasThumb.org sees it:



http://www.pandasthumb.org/pt-archives/001160.html#c35754

The DI <Discovery Institute> has been in a bind from the moment this case started. For the past few years, both sides in this dispute have been waiting for the case - the legal test case that would determine once and for all whether ID <intelligent design> can be taught in public school science classrooms or whether the previous precedents against teaching "creation science" will be applied to ID in a similar manner. That's what all of the activity in this area for the last decade has been building toward. Everything that ID advocates have done during that time has been designed (yes, intelligently) to put legal distance between ID and the type of creation science that was banned from public school science classrooms in the Edwards decision. It's not by accident that the Wedge strategy was worked out by an attorney, Phillip Johnson. Johnson knew that the courts would not allow an explicitly religious idea be taught in public schools, so it was necessary to distance ID as much as possible from religion and make it appear to be religion-neutral.

This is why you hear constantly from ID proponents that the designer is not necessarily God, it could also be, for instance, aliens (never mind that this is flatly contradicted by the fact that the DI's official definition of Intelligent Design includes the claim that "certain features of the universe" are "best explained by an intelligent cause" - the makeup of the universe itself is well outside the reach of "aliens", because aliens, like humans, are part of the universe itself. No, their definition requires that the designer be outside the universe itself and hence "supernatural" because their definition combines cosmological and biological design). This is also why the DI was so upset by the discovery and release of the Wedge Document, because that document makes explicit the fact that the entire ID movement and strategy was designed as part of a larger campaign of Christian cultural renewal (which is also why the DI changed the name of its ID component from the Center for the Renewal of Science and Culture to merely the Center for Science and Culture). The DI is nothing if not politically savvy and they know that these little rhetorical details make a big difference. They also know that the success or failure of a court case to determine whether ID meets constitutional muster for public school science classrooms depends largely on how well they separate ID from religion.

At any rate, both sides have been on the lookout for that one case that could decide the legal question once and for all, and obviously both sides want the details of that case to be as beneficial to their side as possible. That involves many factors - the specific policy being defended, the entire body of statements made before, during and after the crafting of that policy, the makeup of the Federal court district in which the case would be filed, and so forth.

Fast forward to the Dover situation. The Dover school board adopts a policy to teach ID in science classrooms, but in doing so at least one member of the board makes it clear that this is being done for explicitly religious reasons. The DI immediately began to distance itself from the Dover policy largely for that reason, knowing that this isn't really the test case that they would want. They know that it's too soon to attempt to mandate the teaching of ID because, at this point, there really isn't any there there. As <William "Of Pandas and People"> Dembski notes in the article cited above, "there is still a long way at hammering out ID as a full-fledged research program." Many other ID advocates, like Paul Nelson and Bruce Gordon, have said similar things. But the ACLU files suit on behalf of parents in the district and the TMLC comes riding in to defend them, and now the DI is in a bit of a bind.

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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. What is the hypothesis used to establish ID THEORY?
Has that hypothesis been tested by independent tests and garnered same results? You know following scientific practice.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. The hypothesis is that if something seems too complex
to have happened by chance, it must have happened by design. Life seems too complex to have happened by chance, therefore, life must have happened by design.

There is no way to test the hypothesis scientifically.
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aden_nak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. It is imposible to prove and absolute negative.
Edited on Thu Jun-23-05 01:53 PM by aden_nak
You can't prove that a supernatural being DIDN'T design the universe, so therefore it might have. Proof based on the inability to prove an absolute negative is NOT scientificly sound, because it allows for infinite variations on the theory that are just as accurate by the same standard.

You can't PROVE, for example, that J. Edgar Hoover didn't invent a time traveling machine, go forward in time thousands of years to get advanced technoloy, and then travel back to ancient Egypt to construct the pyramids. You can't actually PROVE that he didn't do that. So can't we teach that as one possible way that the pyramids were constructed, since no one is 100% sure how it was done?

But if you get beyond the problem of using an absolute negative as your proof, one of the other central tenants of the scientific process is lacking in Intelligent Design. It assumes an absolute about nature that is only proven if you already accept that absolute. In this case, the absolute is that life is too complex to exist, as we know it, without a designer of some kind.

This flies in the face of many other lesser known but more credible theories, such as the possibility that so called "junk DNA" strands are actually an encoded documentation of failed genetic culdesacs. Or that what we have come to term retroviri are actually mutations themselves of the original organizing principle for self-directed genetic mutation. But the real point is that in order for you to assume that life is to complex to exist without a designer, you must accept first that we already know everything about life that there is to know.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Barring that, the designer ID postulates
is nothing more than the God of the gaps. In other words, a glorified way of saying, "I don't know why that is why it is."
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aden_nak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. God must have done it. Or maybe space aliens. Or maybe a wizard did it.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Astonishing that they think this willingness to give up the investigation
is a scientific attitude. :eyes:
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geniph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. The hypothesis is:
Edited on Thu Jun-23-05 02:33 PM by geniph
"I don't understand it. It's too complex. Therefore, it must have come about by supernatural means. Perhaps the Great Pink Space Lobster created the world and everything in it, or a Magical Winged Puppy."

...I want a winged puppy, myself, except that the housetraining would be a real pain in the ass.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Incidentally, IDers hope to put God back into all science.
They think "natural materialism" is a metaphysical error that science has perpetuated since Darwin came on the scene and pointed out that God was unnecessary for explaining the mechanisms of nature. IDers see natural materialism as inherently atheistic, which is an error. Just because God is excused from the discussion in modern science doesn't mean it argues against God. Even I, as an atheist, can appreciate that. God is simply irrelevant to scientific inquiry because God (if there is one) is by definition supernatural and hence, outside of the natural world that is science's purview.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
9. kick
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