Rove trying to pave the path of acceptance for Torture Photos to come...

[hlthe2b]

Yes, of course this was orchestrated and very intentional. By painting Libs/Progressives as pacifists wanting to placate terrorists and Repugs as decisive, "do whatever it takes to protect Americans," he is clearly hoping that he will build acceptance for the horrific Abu Gharaib torture photos/videos to come.

Why we can't both anticipate and strategically plan response to these actions is beyond me. Rather, we are always left to "react" and try to convince ourselves that this will all backfire on them, that the public will see through this.... Well, I hope that is true and I am hopeful from recent polls. However, recent history has thus far shown otherwise.

Hate towards these cretons may not be helpful, but that's about all I've got, right now.....:mad:

[ObaMania]

1. When are the photos to be released? n/t

[Barad Simith]

7. ACLU press release timeline

http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=18393&c=206

[vickie]

2. When are these torture photos coming?

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

3. If the photos and videos are half as bad...

As they are reported to be, then I really doubt that there is much they can do to inoculate themselves with attacks on libs/progressives. Yes, it's a distraction, but if the quality of the photos holds up, then they will stand alone in testimony to dark times and darker actions.

Rumsfeld was not his usual cocky self yesterday. There is likely a good reason for that. I posit that reason is he knows whats coming and it ain't gonna be pretty.

[LightningFlash]

5. The photos will be even worse....

Than reports were led to believe. Male/female victims sodomized, rape and incest by marine officers of both genders, a total castration of their feet and hands.....

Chew on them moral values. All on 30 degree floors. Rumsfailed will have to justify ordering these atrocities. :crazy: :crazy:

[mark11727]

9. Dumb question...

...who'd be crazy enough to PHOTOGRAPH something that is clearly a CRIME under any law, either domestic or international? Did these people think that this would never come out, or didn't they care either way?

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

11. They do it primarily for two reasons, I think:

First: They don't intend for the photos to be seen by anyone but themselves or confidants, it's to document those "special moments" for their own enjoyment and remembrance later. Why do you think so many serial killers have photographed/videotaped their crimes and/or saved incriminating trophies from victims?

Second (and even more nefariously): They are intended to be shown to future victims to create fear, show that their captors "mean business" and this is what happens if you don't cooperate. The idea being to get more mileage out of individual acts of cruelty I guess.

[KnaveRupe]

10. Ummm....

rape and incest by marine officers of both genders, a total castration of their feet and hands.....

Incest?

Dude.... WTF are you talking about? Are you implying that these marines are having sex with their own relatives at Ghraib?


I'm not even going to go near "castration of feet and hands".

I feel the same outrage as you, but choose your words more carefully when you're posting about stuff like this. Don't give the lurking Freepers anything they can take back and use to paint us as stupid.

[LightningFlash]

13. No...

What I'm implying is according to the ACLU "incest encouraged" acts have been performed including one leaked to the Times where the female interrogator gets on top of the prisoner, where people hang things on their necks and play Christina Aguilera music, and other wonderful things that the media doesn't report. That's in the Times and multiple papers today.

[GiovanniC]

15. Bear With Me For Not Understanding

What is an "incest encouraged" act?

Where we force prisoners to have sex with their own children or something?

I don't really understand what you meant, keeping in mind the definition of "incest".

[LightningFlash]

17. Simple context.

"Inhumane" sexual acts, dog treatment, "putting down the pat" etc.

They had the "terra-rists" on top of eachother filming them under various degrees of duress. Think Abu Gharib in a different setting.

[GiovanniC]

18. Maybe I'm Thick

I still don't see where any of this relates to "incest".

[H2O Man]

19. I was under the impression

that was in reference to forcing "suspects" to watch their family members (younger siblings, etc) being sexually abused. I believe that is the context the word is used in.

[GiovanniC]

22. Okay, That Explanation Makes a Lot More Sense To Me

Than "suspects" being forced to share cells with relatives. I would think, all things being equal, I would prefer my family with me in a prison cell than for them to be in a separate prison cell (and I wouldn't see anything incestous about it).

[LightningFlash]

20. Well..

The "captives" ARE related, and many of them are forced to use the same cells....There is alot of things that clearly scratch this surface and show its no different than a Gulag penitentary. Even if they have food and the photos will show it.

[Patty Diana]

24. between fathers and their sons___at gunpoint__reported by ACLU

in earlier documents. These Docs are on line at the ACLU FOIA Pages

[GiovanniC]

25. Damn, I Had No Idea

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[reality based]

6. Trying to inoculate the country and the media against use of the F word

("Fascist") when the pictures are released. If they're as bad as reported, I don't think it will work. An Internet petition might be in order. Of course a lot of congress-critters have already seen them and didn't express a great deal of outrage.

[rodeodance]

8. Dan Bartlett-Councelor to Jr--also has been in TV lots lately touting

talking points. It is the 'positive' view mantra.

[ElectroPrincess]

12. I don't give anyone who tortures "a pass" - it's evil

However, as a former Army Officer, what I want to know is WHERE WERE THEIR LEADERS when these atrocities were taking place?

The people who rightly assert that one can't deny responsibility by stating "I was only following orders" should also respect OUR responsibility to follow this to the TOP levels of Command.

IMO the Corporals, Squad Leaders, Platoon Sergeants, Platoon Leaders, Company Commanders, XOs, Battalion Leadership - all the way up to the General Officers in the Pentagon, The Secretary of Defense AND The President of the United States should be questioned about the "tone" and "command atmosphere" that allowed such abhorrent acts to occur on THEIR WATCH.

Everyone up and down the chain needs to be questioned. We are supposed to be the moral leaders of the free world. This whole situation (The Geneva Conventions being quaint?!?) is a tragic chapter for our entire country.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hlthe2b]

21. They must be released per court order....

Pro-Active response is anticipating based on Repug patterns and neutralizing in advance. For example, given Bush* severely dropping poll numbers, and given their history, Dean or Reid could have started stating their expectation that once again, Repug leadership will try to divert attention from their problems and to blame anyone but themselves.... That should be our mantra...

[H2O Man]

16. I agree.

I think it's a foolish thing to invest energy in demanding Karl say he is "sorry." Later for that. We should focus attention on the fact that he isn't sorry, this is what they are like. This is the essence of the administration's character. An apology implies that Karl becomes acceptable, where we want to make clear he is unacceptable.

[Karenina]

23. Paul Krugman quote

"We need to deprive these people of their ability to mislead and intimidate. And the best way to do that is to make it clear that the people who led us to war on false pretenses have no credibility, and no right to lecture the rest of us about patriotism."

[H2O Man]

26. That's right.

I saw an aunt & uncle in a grocery store yesterday. They are working class people who remember WW2 and FDR. They said that the worst thing that is happening in America today is that the criminals in Washington DC are intimidating people of good will. They said that while we face many huge problems as a nation, we will not be able to find any solutions when the true American spirit is stifled. They compared the atmosphere in this country to that in Germany when the Nazis were making it an "offense against the state" to question the violence and cruelty of the government.

Karl Rove ranks as the last human being in America who has any right to question the patriotism of anyone. He is a parasite. The democratic approach to him should be limited to utter contempt.