Who Believes the 'Pottery Barn rule' & 'Cut & Run' is RW BS re: Iraq

[bpilgrim]

why are folks on our side using reductionist RW talking point BS (Al Franken now on AAR) to describe their postion regarding keeping our troops in this illegal occupation?

we can send aid, etc, but bring our troops home from this ILLEGAL WAR, ASAP!

peace

(repost cause the other one was busted)

[grumpy old fart]

1. say what???

what's the question?

[Horse with no Name]

2. I think you meant "Pottery Barn"

which is "you break it you buy it".;)

[bpilgrim]

4. D'oh!

fixed, thanks :hi:

peace

[louis-t]

3. I believe it is "Pottery Barn"

LOL!

[bullimiami]

5. one thing that isnt bs. bush promised to get rid of saddam and give

iraq democracy.

and they mean to have it. they are not going to allow bush to be the new saddam.
the sunni, shia and kurds mean to set their own rules, run their own country and control their own resources.
bush blew it big time because he promised all of his buddies that iraq was there for the taking and all they had to do was get rid of saddam. ha fucking ha.

[HockeyMom]

6. Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall,

Humpty Dumpty had a great fall,
All the King's horses and all the King's men,
Couldn't put Humpty together again.

[UdoKier]

7. Your poll is worded very unclearly.

It's far from obvious what "yes" and "no" mean here.

If yes means "bring them home now", then yes.

[bpilgrim]

10. re: Iraq - Are the 'Pottery Barn rule' & 'Cut & Run' expressions RW BS?

hows that?

(sorry, i was rushing when i posted this)

peace

[Deep13]

8. What's the question?

The war is wrong and illegal and just plain stupid. I would say that we are stuck with it, but staying does not fix anything. Any credibility we had over there was lost when we tortured prisoners and looted their treasury.

[bpilgrim]

11. see post #10

:hi:

peace

[converted_democrat]

9. I believe in a form of the Pottery Barn rule...........

I think we did break it, but we broke it at the behest of corporate interest. I think the war profiteers should fix it on their own damn dime.

[salin]

12. I think it is a mess

and am not sure what to do about it - frankly leaving could make things worse - but staying keeps things really bad. And f*ck that crap that I am buying some rw tripe - this is part of why I objected going in the first place. I am against humanitarian disasters (which we have created) and am not sure that the likely civil war that would follow wouldn't be another one (think cleansing type retaliation against Sunnis).

Probably something more along sending lots of aid - working through NGOs - and working to get more international support for assistance for basic security and getting basic services (water, electricity) up and running. I think aid in the form of NGOs doing the rebuilding - without the current profit motive - is important as the jobs provided would build economic alliance with the rebuilding efforts.

I don't know I would fully pull everyone immediately - but I don't know what the options are - and certainly pursuing bush's war dreams and war games is NOT what we should be doing. I just don't think there is a simple answer, nor do I think the solution is binary - either 'keep bush's war going'... or 'pull everyone home right away.'

salin - probably to be considered a near 30,000 poster mole - for expressing these thoughts... either that or a dupe of the rw. :eyes:

[bpilgrim]

14. "leaving could make things worse" -it's chaos right now

with suicide bombers going off daily how can it get any worse?

since our presence there is what is fueling this disaster i say pulling them out and turning over control to the UN should be a top priority.

we all should be advocating a plan to turn over control to Iraqis mediated by the UN and bringing our troops home, not playing into the false "Binary Logic"

repeating the BS RW slogans simply lets them frame the debate and prolongs the war.

peace

[Taxloss]

15. The Iraqis hate the UN almost as much as they hate the US.

Thanks to sanctions.

[bpilgrim]

18. i doubt that

but it is true that they are very upset with the U.N. as well but they are the only international body charged with enforcing international law and nation building.

peace

[Taxloss]

19. You're right, the resentment over sanctions has probably dissipated by now

in the face to the American war of occupation.

But UN-endorsed troops would not be welcomed in Iraq, I feel.

[Bridget Burke]

13. We broke Iraq, but we still don't "own" it.

Let's ask the Iraqis whether we should leave. Some have been making their opinions clear.

[welshTerrier2]

16. Who believes it, you ask? um, most of the Dems in the Senate ...

i see it more like we broke it and now they're shoving the shards up under our fingernails ...

[bpilgrim]

17. who believes it is a reductionist RW talking-point that harms the cause

to end the war by bringing our troops home is what i was trying to say... but you are right that unfortunately most of our Dem leaders and spokespersons apparently buy into it as well as many of them use it when discussing Iraq and it is insulting our intelligence to use these terms as if they actually mean something :puke:

"i see it more like we broke it and now they're shoving the shards up under our fingernails ..."

ouch, good analogy :toast:

peace

[The Magistrate]

20. Both Things, Mr. Pilgrim, Are Fatuous Nonesense

The longer the United States stays in that place, the worse the long term damage its prestige and standing will suffer, and the more greatly degraded the capabilities of its military forces become, owing to the demoralizing character of occupation duty. That chaos and tyranny is sure to follow our departure does not alter this one whit: chaos and tyranny accompany our presence, after all, and the change will be merely one of direction and degree.

Failure ought not be persevered in, and whether the arguement that be persevered in be cloaked in school-yard taunts like "cut and run", or draped in the more highfalutin formulations of "preserving our honor", the course urged is equally nonesense.

"There is a saying, 'If at first you don't succedd, try, try, again.' That is foolishness. It ought to run, 'If at first you don't succeed, quit, quit at once.'"

[bpilgrim]

21. Thank you, sir

you put it much more plainly then i did but those are my exact sentiments.

we need to get our elite to stop using their reductionist talking points so we can actually have a real discussion about this disaster and find the best path to get our troops out of harms way.

:hi:

peace