Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Gagging Dr. Howard Dean

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
Itsthetruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 01:25 PM
Original message
Gagging Dr. Howard Dean
City Pages
June 22, 2005

Gagging Dr. Dean
by Steve Perry



Next it was the Democrats' turn to declare open season on Dean. The catalyst was a series of "provocative statements" concerning Tom DeLay, the idle rich, and the Republicans' status as a white Christian enclave. As to the particulars of his remarks, more shortly. But first a brief roll call of some of the prominent Democrats who have damned the party chair with criticism or surpassingly faint praise lately. When Dean proclaimed that a lot of Republicans did not work for a living, it was too much for John Edwards: "The chairman of the DNC is not the spokesman for the party.... He's one voice. I don't agree with it." Also for Joe Biden, who seemed to speak from the same script: "He doesn't speak for me with that kind of rhetoric, and I don't think he speaks for the majority of Democrats." Harold Ford, Jr. of Tennessee, a Congressional up-and-comer whose fate it will someday be to lose to Barack Obama in the Democrats' version of American Idol, said: "It may get to the point where the party may need to look elsewhere for leadership, because he does not speak for me." A guest at a party planning confab in the home of Clinton pollster Mark Penn later told Fineman, "There was a ton of positive energy at the house, except for the fear and loathing of Dean." Also piling on: Mark Warner, Ben Nelson, Dianne Feinstein, Barney Frank, Harold Ickes, and the press aide to Sen. Hillary Clinton. It's a pretty impressive field, encompassing most of the presumed or dark horse Democratic presidential candidates for 2008.

On June 2, Dean threw a bit of red meat to a gathering of party activists. Concluding a comment about a shortage of voting stations in Ohio last November, he jibed that Republicans might not understand the hardship of missing work to stand in long voting lines because "a lot of them have never made an honest living in their lives." Miraculously, the building in which Dean spoke these words did not collapse around him, but beneath it the foundation of the Republic trembled and threatened to break apart. Republicans the party of privilege? Who but a hateful troll like Dean could even conceive such a mad thought?

The media deserve a lot of credit for making a scandal of it, readily eliding Dean's comment about GOP elites into a remark about "many Republicans" (Boston Globe) or finally "Republicans" in general (San Francisco Chronicle). Of the various remarks for which Dean has been pilloried lately, Democrats were most vociferous in distancing themselves from this one. The reason was simple: The sort of folk Dean held up to contempt are the main funders of the Democratic Party, too. Thanks to New York Times tax reporter David Cay Johnston's book Perfectly Legal, we know a little more about the composition of what he terms the "political donor class." We know first of all that it's very small and very rich: By Johnston's calculation, about one-tenth of 1 percent of Americans give 80 percent of the total moneys received by the two major political parties. Many of the big donors, especially the corporate bundlers, make a point of playing both sides; many give to one party or the other. But it all works out in the end, since they have far more in common with each other than with the other 99-plus percent of the country. Most of what you need to know about the futility and corruption of the Democratic Party--the me-tooism, the abject fear of fighting spirit or fighting words, the overarching role of money in all of the above--is summed up in this little episode.

Ideologically, Dean makes a curious vessel for the party establishment's wrath. As he told a very liberal-friendly ACLU crowd in Minneapolis two months ago, he is "not that liberal" himself. In fiscal terms he is a balance-the-budget guy, like Bill Clinton, who in turn described himself thusly, in Bob Woodward's The Agenda: Inside the Clinton White House: "I hope you're all aware we're all Eisenhower Republicans. We're Eisenhower Republicans here, and we are fighting the Reagan Republicans. We stand for lower deficits and free trade and the bond market." Dean talks about social programs, mainly health care, but of course a Democratic Party that followed his lead would be mightily constrained in funding social programs by its budget-balancing creed. In sum, Dean is a little more liberal on domestic issues than Clinton, a little less liberal than Richard Nixon. Now that he has quit speaking up against the war (We cannot leave Iraq, he says at every stop), there is little to make him unpalatable to frontline Democrats on issues of policy.


http://www.citypages.com/databank/26/1281/article13433.asp


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
meegbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. NO SEX THREADS!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Itsthetruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Now That Was Funny!
eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. But you're not. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
2. Democrats are stupid to slam into Howard Dean
Pisses me off. The Republicans are not going to let up on us if we play nice, so why bother playing nice. I'm not saying we need to be stupidly agressively, but at the same time we need to be out there fighting.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
3. So.......Dean scares the crap out of Republicans?
He must or they wouldn't work this hard to smear him.

Everything about Dean scares the GOP -- his tactics, his message, his resilience. They bash his tactics right before they rip them off to use them themselves.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3937128
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. The article didn't say Dean scared the GOP but the Dem Elite
who are Eisenhower or Rockefeller Republicans.

In fiscal terms he is a balance-the-budget guy, like Bill Clinton, who in turn described himself thusly, in Bob Woodward's The Agenda: Inside the Clinton White House: "I hope you're all aware we're all Eisenhower Republicans. We're Eisenhower Republicans here, and we are fighting the Reagan Republicans. We stand for lower deficits and free trade and the bond market." Dean talks about social programs, mainly health care, but of course a Democratic Party that followed his lead would be mightily constrained in funding social programs by its budget-balancing creed. In sum, Dean is a little more liberal on domestic issues than Clinton, a little less liberal than Richard Nixon.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-25-05 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #13
22. Not much diference, IMO.....n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
4. This is a good article
Everyone should read the whole thing IMO, especially before posting. :-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Yes. The original poster appears to have some kind of agenda.
Everyone, READ THE WHOLE ARTICLE before jumping to some kind of conclusion about what it REALLY says.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. You think?
Next time he says anything good about the Democrats will be the 1st time. He really ought to be posting over at the www.naderunderground.com
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Itsthetruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Nonsense!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. So you happen to like 6 individuals who agree with you on Iraq
and SS. I've seen enough of your Democratic-bashing counterpunch postings nonsense to know that your in the "not a dimes worth of difference" camp. Hey, why not be an equal time basher and post the same at FR?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Itsthetruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-25-05 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. 60% Of The People Agree With Me On Iraq
Edited on Sat Jun-25-05 08:46 AM by Itsthetruth
We want the Bush government to withdraw from Iraq and our troops brought home.

Join us!

And perhaps you can convince the leaders of the Democratic Party like Howard Dean to support the American people and our soldiers by demanding withdrawl from Iraq rather than acting as George Bush war enablers. Or would you rather go on supporting Democratic politicians who support Bush's occupation of Iraq?

Wasn't Howard Dean once a "anti-war" candidate for President? Well, he's not running for anything now so it's OK when he wishes George Bush success in his war efforts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-25-05 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. Been there from the beginning my friend.
That's not my point. You seem to make it your work to divide this community with your constant postings on what's wrong with Democrats. Sorry, but I'm one of those people who still blame Ralph Nader (well actually, the idiots that followed Ralph) for giving Republicans the opening to steal 2000.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-25-05 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #4
24. It is a good article - and expresses what I have said before
one of the best things about Dean - is that his populist appeal - and use of the internet early on to raise scads of $ - threatened to shake up the current circle of dem strategists/consultants... who are insular and have not been terribly successful in recent years (imo). I say that as one who briefly worked in that world (as a peon - but observer) in the eighties and I know how tight and interconnected it is. A shake up has been needed - and I think he continues to provide it.

Further more - and not in the article - but echoing our own Plaid Addler - but tying it to the article - the recent press around his "gaffes" - has gotten discussions... see he isn't far off the mark, and among middle of the roaders there is a greater discomfort with the directions bushco is taking us (esp after baring all with schaivo on the domestic front, and the dsm providing the sensed but not clear discomfort with the how behind iraq on the foreign policy front) than there is with his over the top statements. So here is how this ties together - the criticisms by insiders - keep the media coverage of the statements going... which imo, means more water cooler discussions about the underlying ideas behind his statements. So if he starts getting folks to face up to their discomfort with the radical right as the republican party... while also successfully fundraising via populist messages ... which in turn shakes up the conventional wisdom of the 'old guard' dem strategists/consultants in DC. Then all for the good. Meanwhile - he takes the heat for the statements... without backlash hitting those seeking election/re-election.

Keep it up, Gov Dr Dean - keep it up!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dbonds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. How feasible is it to kick the DINO's.
Look at where they get their donations and if it is someone that also supports mostly republicans or business looking for influence, boot them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LightningFlash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-25-05 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #5
21. Kick them clear to the curb. We did it to Zell Miller, repeat the process.
n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-25-05 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #21
31. We did? I missed that, and I don't think Zell noticed either. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LightningFlash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-26-05 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. Zell was outcasted...
He no longer is recognized by the party and could shred his registration. Seperate the DINOs from the democrats...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
7. I really don't appreciate the snips you provided as they distort this.
You are misrepresenting the gist of it. The gist of the article is MORE CLEARLY represented here:

{snip}

Two things make Democratic Party powers lose sleep over Dean. The first and less distinct is his taste for the populist rhetorical style. He has a flair for articulating popular anger in popular terms, and he is very good at seeing where to strike. It doesn't matter much that he is sometimes inarticulate or in less than full command of his factual claims for the same reason it hasn't mattered in the far more egregious case of George W. Bush: Rank-and-file Democrats and independents who see Dean tend to like him. The unprecedented war chest he amassed from nickel-and-dime donors before the Iowa Massacre is ample proof of it. And this brings us to the more material reason the Democrats hate Howard Dean: He threatens to refigure the fundraising base of the party, however modestly, and thus to shift the balance of power in the party hierarchy.

Beneath the mass media dustup over Dean's rhetoric, there is a related and more telling battle going on over precisely the issue of grassroots fundraising. Dean wants to use the same fundraising strategy as party chair that he used as a candidate, emphasizing small donations collected over the internet and through state and local efforts coordinated via the internet. Through the end of April, the Democrats had raised a little over $18 million. The Republicans had raised almost $43 million. Critics seized on the discrepancy as proof Dean could not deliver. This fails to consider the position in which Democrats found themselves relative to Republicans after the last election ("The Republicans control pretty much everything," notes Democratic political consultant Steve Cobble, "so why wouldn't they have a huge edge in fundraising?"), and it likewise ignores the fact that Dean has raised more money than his predecessor had at the same point following the 2000 election, when the party could still receive direct soft-money donations. Judged against those two factors, Dean's performance as a fundraiser would seem pretty respectable.


{snip}
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Itsthetruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Did You Have A Problem Finding And Reading The Entire Article?
You clearly didn't because I posted a link. To me some of the most(not all) interesting points where in the paragraphs I used. Unfortunately, I had to pick and choose just as all other posters do with the paragraph limit.

It seems you would have picked four entirely different paragraphs in the article for a lead post and I don't have a problem with that. Would it be correct for me to assume that you would not have discovered the article if I hadn't posted it? A simple thanks would be appreciated.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I'm glad you posted it
I thought it was a very interesting article.

"The time is ripe for a full-throated attack on corruption in the halls of business and government and especially in our profiteering health care system. "
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fla nocount Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-25-05 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #7
23. Thank you for the snips. I'm a populist too. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
11. Perry has diagnosed the real problem with the Dem Elite and Dean
<SNIP>
Two things make Democratic Party powers lose sleep over Dean. The first and less distinct is his taste for the populist rhetorical style. He has a flair for articulating popular anger in popular terms, and he is very good at seeing where to strike. It doesn't matter much that he is sometimes inarticulate or in less than full command of his factual claims for the same reason it hasn't mattered in the far more egregious case of George W. Bush: Rank-and-file Democrats and independents who see Dean tend to like him. The unprecedented war chest he amassed from nickel-and-dime donors before the Iowa Massacre is ample proof of it. And this brings us to the more material reason the Democrats hate Howard Dean: He threatens to refigure the fundraising base of the party, however modestly, and thus to shift the balance of power in the party hierarchy.
<SNIP>

The above paragraph sums up the real reasons the Dem Elite hate Howard Dean -- he's a catalyst for changing the paradigm of the Dem Party.

Dean still possesses enough personal leverage to make himself a real nuisance to business-as-usual Democrats. You will note that most party frontliners have avoided any suggestion that he step down as chair. This is largely because Dean's four-year chairmanship is all that binds him to his brokered promise not to run for president in 2008. The party would rather neutralize him in his role as chair. (Remember, per Newsweek, the scuttled insider plan to appoint a spokesman to stand in front of Dean?) If they can smear him enough to take away whatever lingering mass appeal he has going forward, so much the better. This is where the attacks on his public words come in, and at more than one level. Consultant Cobble again: "Dean knows that when he's out there talking is when the small donors jump in. The big-money people know that too--they know that to keep the fundraising going, he's got to put red meat out there. And they probably also realize that if they can intimidate him into stopping that, he'll be forced to turn back toward them for money."

The grassroots energies that coalesced around Dean are thus put in check, and the vaunted post-2004 battle over "the soul of the Democratic Party" is laid to rest, appropriately, with a chorus of whimpers.


I don't agree with Perry's ending. Dean said that the Dem Party need to be reformed in order for us to reform the nation. I also think the grassroots and Dean will succeed in transforming the Dem Party. Perry forgot about the DNC Exec Committee giving Dean a big vote of confidence after the brohuha and Dean saying he was going to be in the GOP's face. But on policy issues, like Iraq, Perry is right, Dean has been muzzled, so I think it's up to the state DNC committees to draft an Iraq policy for Dean to use. Robert Greenleaf said that followers enable leaders to lead them, and on Iraq, the grassroots will have to enable Dean.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
17. i signed up 13 a month to dnc last nite
to support dean and let our fellow dems, he speaks for us. they can be prim and proper, we trust dean. even when he has an ooops. at least he admits to not beingperfect adn will openly talk about it. i like dean. and i like him in his imperfection
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MODemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
18. Dean is tired of the republican BS and he's speaking out
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I haven't heard him say anything about speaking for the democrats, he's stating an honest opinion of his own, and this is his right. He was good on Jon Stewart's show last night, and he has the extremists of the right pretty shook up. :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LightningFlash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-25-05 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
20. Dean speaks for everyone.
And the democratic DLC elite needs to get the hell out of the way or wash out. :thumbsup:

Forward all your comments and ask Dean to cover more and more issues. http://www.democrats.org
democraticparty@democrats.org (official address)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-25-05 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
25. "Why does Howard Dean's own party consider him ..."??
Excuse me. That title should read "Why do the Democratic power brokers consider Howard Dean dangerous to their interests."

Howard Dean is only dangerous to those who feel threatened by him. And, AFAIC, I hope he keeps threatening them all by exposing how selfish their agenda is.




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ragnar Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-25-05 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
27. Polemicism makes a good night club act.
I don't particularly like polemic essays. This is particularly true when the rhetoric is manipulative and generally presents a dishonest view of reality. Even if every Democrat in Washington said Dr. Dean did not speak for him or her, it hardly constitutes "open season" or "gagging." If you like to listen to a preacher talking to a choir, I guess this might be a secent essay.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-26-05 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #27
35. Overall, it's a highly insightful and extremely accurate article.
Edited on Sun Jun-26-05 04:59 PM by stickdog
A few polemical flourishes don't alter the acuity of its analysis.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ragnar Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-26-05 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. After reading the other posts, I went back and read the whole thing.
I find the polemicism annoying. The article is very insightful though, and perhaps inciteful too. Frankly, I would not be overly shocked if Dean keeps up the rhetoric until he gets fired so he can run as an independent in 08. He would almost certainly get my vote.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-25-05 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
28. Thanks for this ..
Edited on Sat Jun-25-05 04:45 PM by zidzi
snip~"Two obvious questions, then. Why are so many of the most powerful Democrats afraid of Howard Dean? And can anyone so reviled by both D.C. party establishments be all bad?"

Far from being "all bad"..Dean is mostly ALL GOOD!

snip~"The only part he fails to grasp is how spectacularly distasteful and off-point his big idea is to the Democratic Party."


Maybe Dean will "grasp" it if he reads this article! ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Independent_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-25-05 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
29. Dean speaks for me!
:D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeftyDarthBrodie Donating Member (941 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-25-05 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
30. Dean's record never matched
with the smears from the Ghastly Old Party or the So-called Liberal Media. He balanced budgets, recieved high marks from the NRA and I believe supports the death penalty. Someone correct me if I am wrong on that point.

He does support national healthcare, which is the most important domestic issue currently facing us, and came out early in opposition to the invasion and occupation of Iraq. I greatly admire Dr. Dean for these two principled and correct stands he took.

Hopefully he can re-install some energy and backbone into our party and take it back from the Eisenhower Republicans.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-25-05 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
32. What an incredible article. I recommend it highly, but as others have
said, you need to read the whole thing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-26-05 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
34. MUST READ! Amazingly insightful article. (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lakeguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-26-05 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. Yes, a great article indeed! As with most stories, you don't get the
whole picture just reading a few paragraphs. Thems the rules though...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-26-05 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Yes, a great article
kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-26-05 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
36. The Repukes hate freedom of speech and love solidarity.
The Dems hate solidarity and love freedom of speech.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-27-05 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
40. kick (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 19th 2024, 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC