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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 01:28 PM
Original message
Rove's comments are not a diversion, but a preparation.
it might be more a case of
"making the case" for torture.

LynnTheDem and others have posted the news of the imminent release of photos and video of horrific acts of torture being perpetrated in our name.

After all, it will be days before information and new visuals are released, and Rove has accused Democrats of being weak when it comes to terrorism. He has said this days if not a week prior to the event of the release of the new information. His comments would likely have been out of the media by then. So I don't see that his recent comments would serve as a diversion from that.

Torture to him and Bushco is "getting tough" with terrorists. Rove knows there is no way to divert attention from what will be released. The recorded screams of a child being raped has nothing to divert from it in the civilized world.

Rove is trying his best to get us to justify the horror as "getting tough" with terrorists.

Torture is better than therapy, is really what he might be saying.


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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. Torture for them IS better than therapy
Why work it out in your head when you can use your might? And, if you can own a little bit of stock in the company that you give the contracts to, well, that's just a perk now, isn't it?

They should take a lesson from those that were hit hardest in the stock market crash. They got therapy if they didn't jump off the roof.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. Was there something that actually happened where a Dem suggested
therapy or is he pulling this right out of his ass?

The only touchy feely stuff I can remember was from Richard Gere, who isn't usually thought of as a Dem figurehead.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I've never seen it.
I think it was more about the argument that to defeat terrorism you have to get at it's roots.

Which is more about the economic and foriegn polocies that contribute to someone becoming a terrorist.

The reason Rove used the word "therapy" is because he is an idiot, who along with the othe idiots who listen to and follow him, bridle at the thought of therapy. They see it as "pansy-assed" or some other term idiots such as themselves use, when in reality what they could really use...is some therapy.
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gumby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Rove mentions a Moveon.org message
from Sept. 13 that urges "restraint." The radio monkeys are citing moveon in their defense of Rove and the 'liberals are wimps' repetition.

Anyone have that moveon message?
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. I wasn't listening closely enough, but I believe it was Joe Conason
on Al Franken who said that when that charge was laid at the feet of moveon.org, they were contacted to get more info. and they indicated they DIDN'T run that message.

Maybe a DU'er who actually was focused and could hear what was said will pitch in and fill in the missing pieces.
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Code for get a clue is the word "therapy" (reverse psychology here)
I suggest taking the card on face value. Start at the core and work your way outward.

The Cult of Karl
By Harold Meyerson
Issue Date: 12.30.02

So who you gonna believe, Bob Woodward or Ron Suskind? In Bush at War, Woodward's new behind-the-scenes account of the White House in wartime, mighty battles are waged between the Powellites and the Cheneyistas over the fundamentals of foreign policy. Multilateralists duke it out with unilateralists, leaving the president to choose between, or meld, two distinctly opposed viewpoints of America's proper role in the world.
(snip)
http://www.prospect.org/print/V13/23/meyerson-h.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Rove#Trivia

I would also suggest the dude is a abuser but not in the classical sense, but more in intellectual sense. He prays on peoples need to put up a defense to which he has learned to anticipate and strip bare. To this effect putting on the nasty or waiting for the rest of the public to wake up is the only way out (that I can see).


Abuse Recovery

Cult leaders easily dupe followers. Usually, their crimes revolve around abuse: emotional, physical and sexual. Cult leaders may also commit financial and criminal abuses. An abusive person may start his own organization, or he may grab power after the death of a charismatic preacher. Abusive people may be put in place after a hostile takeover of a company or government. One common way it can start is when corrupt politicians make political appointments. This section is directed to people who suffered abuse as adults or children under the care of dishonest people.

What is it about abuse that makes it so difficult to recognize and talk about? Guilt, perhaps, since we have all abused or been abused at some time. If we had kids, the odds are that we hit them, since studies show that ninety seven percent of American parents hit their kids. According to Murray Straus, a well-respected researcher in the field of child abuse, ordinary spanking can and should be eliminated to produce healthier children. Spanking is the fall back method of getting the point across, but there are dozens of parent training programs now that teach parents how to set boundaries and manage their children without hitting.

Another reason people overlook abuse is due to limited experience in handling strong emotions. Thanks to Freud, most of us have invested a great deal of energy in covering up pain. We think that we're doing someone a favor by ignoring their pain or hiding our own, but we're really just unable to confront our own feelings. Jung taught that connecting with our personal depths makes us more wholesome people, with more empathy for others.

Often the perpetrator gets away with his crimes because he wears the disguise of an upstanding citizen; for example he may become a prominent member of the church, or a business or civic leader. This is the case in cults, and often in incest families, too. Cult or family members like everything about certain respected elders, so they refuse to listen to charges that victims may raise. Everyone wants to keep the family secrets hidden; as if the problem has gone away. A mother may conspire by refusing to acknowledge an act of abuse against her child. She may try to prove that the perpetrator is a nice man. Conspirators teach victims that their perception of reality is invalid and that what happened to them was acceptable, thinking this will help them forget it. Anyone who claims that abuse can easily be forgotten is a dangerous person who should never be allowed to gain power over others, especially children.
(snip)
http://surrealist.org/norimuster/handbook2.html
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. Randi is looking for sources and there isn't one
nothing from MoveOn - right out of Karl's lying ass
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Randi just mentioned that Bush is the one using psychologists
on prisoners to find out what they're most frightened of ala "1984" and the rat cage on Winston's face.
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. When the government wants us to accept child rape, touchy-feely is nice
as an option.

Never forget, they not only allowed it, but are trying to get us to accept it. What sort of people are they? How low have we fallen in allowing it to continue?
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meti57b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. Rove was test-marketing the strategy for the 2006 & 2008 elections
(as they said on "Countdown").
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
5. Yeah that's true
"See, we are getting tough, and by complaining about these new photos the Democrats are just proving me right"
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LiviaOlivia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
6. Another consideration
from patriotboy
http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/2005_06_19_patriotboy_archive.html#111959460816140699
~snip~

"I'm seething with anger over Rove's assertion that people like you and I want our soldiers to come home in bodybags. Such a statement is unforgivable. It would not matter if it was a mistake, an unfortunate phrase spoken in anger. It would still be despicable.

It appears, however, that it was something more than loose words uttered at a weak moment: it's part of a calculated strategy to turn those of us who opposed the war into scapegoats for its failure. It's reminiscent of the scapegoating of Jews by German nationalists after WWW I. This new Bush strategy transcends being merely despicable; it is evil."


~snip~
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Jose Diablo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
7. If the movie comes out that shows
a mother being forced to watch her 10 year old daughter being raped to force the mother to say where her husband went, if this is shown, then Rove and the rest of the turds are finished.

There will be no way to spin that with the mothers here or anywere else for that matter.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
21. I haven't heard of that video.
that sounds like one of Saddam's techniques.

But we are now in a place where it's difficult to tell the difference between What Saddam once did and what Bush does now.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
9. right now, apparently, on CNN - a report from Guantanamo
somehow I bet it will match the country club and great treatment storyline that DickCHeney and DuncanYachtsmanHunter started within the last couple of days.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. It will have to be a country club where
the wives beg to be killed.

Although they always suprise me, I just don't see how they can spin this successfully.

These pictures will finally separate the delusional nuts in our country from the rest of America.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Reaction to 911 Attacks
The little problem with his statement is that the Bush Regime were planning brutal war before the 911 Attack. 911 was the "new Pearl Harbor" that made it easy for them to con Amerikans into an illegal Invasion.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. ironically either earlier today or yesterday
bush said something to the effect that 911 reminded us that we were at war. So says the Bushism column at Slate.
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
13. the 'live from gitmo' fluff piece on cnn reinforces this
preparing the waters with repeated mantras about the disneyland of prisons
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
14. There is somethign else here
they are preparing the country for a hot civil war... wether wittingly or unwittingly, but that is the only way they can declare Martial Law and suspend the Constitution...

It is also in preparation for the next phase, so people we will have fun in them ahem reeducation camps...

This is psy ops, pure and simple
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realFedUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
18. making it ok to be complicit in 9/11
Some day soon the truth about 9/11 will
be learned by more Americans
and Rove and Bush Inc. will have to make
an argument for why they needed a new
Pearl Harbor.

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