I'm sorry but the Democrats gullibility astonishes me.

[friesianrider]

I know I'm going to get flamed to Hell for this, but I truly can't believe how stupid and gullible the Democrats are with regard to this Karl Rove thing. After 5 years, we still haven't quite understood that the * WH is ALL ABOUT DISTRACTION. They've done it with every major issue since 2001, and when the DSMs finally starting to create controversy, all Turdblossum has to do is go out there and make one totally false and untrue statement and **NOW** the Democrats are all in a lather. Why weren't they all hitting the news outlets about DSM? Yes, I think we should call for Rove's resignation over a ridiculous (but typical) comment...who cares if we have actual proof of a rush to war and a plan to lie to the American people :sarcasm:? No, let's go with the calls for a Rove resignation, not all stand before the press as a united Party and call FOR *'S RESIGNATION over the DSM. Yes, the comments were a total exagerration and completely untrue (gosh, the GOP's capture of bin Laden has just really shown us who's tougher on terrorism, huh!?), but seriously. Is it really worth creating controversy over THIS nonsense from a fat balding fuck or should we create controversy over DSM?

I don't understand why the Democrats keep falling for this bullshit time after time after time. We play right into Rove's hands, without fail, every time.

Go ahead...flame, but I'm frustrated to death.

[BurtWorm]

1. How does this distract from DSM?

I've been reading references to DSM all over the place as Dems react to Rove.

PS: If Rove wanted to distract us from DSM, he might have chosen a distraction less conducive to reminding him of them.

[FearofFutility]

100. I think it has more to do with media coverage

DSM, you get a story here and there. Rove's comments, I've heard them over and over and over again.

[Zensea]

2. The DSMs are not going away

So what if there is the current distraction?
They'll still be around next week and next month in black and white.

[friesianrider]

6. How? They already are.

I haven't heard even a mention of DSM at all the last few days. Every second spent talking about Turdblossum is a second away from DSM. I watched the Today Show this morning and all they had was Dan Bartlett on there talking about how Democrats are "so weak" on terrorism and how all the Dems criticizing Rove voted "with the pResident."

It's bullshit, I'm sorry. Comments as ridiculous as that don't even deserve a reply when we have something like DSM to talk about.

[BurtWorm]

10. Here's one reference:

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/index.html

A few weeks ago, John Kerry vowed to make an issue of the Downing Street memo in the U.S. Senate. And then nothing happened -- or so it seemed.

In fact, Kerry has been working behind the scenes to get some of his Democratic colleagues to join him in calling for the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence to look into Downing Street, and now it's finally happening. Kerry -- joined by Sens. Jon Corzine, Tim Johnson, Frank Lautenberg, Barbara Boxer, Tom Harkin, Jack Reed, Jeff Bingaman and, yes, Dick Durbin -- has just written a letter to the committee's chairman and vice chairman, arguing that the revelations contained in the Downing Street memo "raise troubling questions about the use of intelligence" in the run up to the Iraq war and provide "renewed urgency" for the committee to complete an investigation that Republicans have said is no longer necessary.

[friesianrider]

15. Salon.com is good, but not exactly a big-name network...

...at least IMHO. I just have a feeling that this whole thing is going to fall through the cracks just like so many "Bush is cooked!!" stories did before. Of course I hope that I am wrong, but I don't exactly have much faith in the Dems anymore to stick to important issues that demand attention and demand them getting in front of the press and talking about it.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

93. Maybe you should have done a Google news search....

...on the Downing Street Memo before complaining that it's disappearing.

There's "only" 2,750 hits from a variety of sources...have fun reading them:

<http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d&q=Downing+Street+Memo&btnG=Search+News>

The mainstream media appears to have been given the green light by their conservative corporate masters to start hammering the NeoCons...it's been quite a while since I've seen this amount of negative press against the NeoCons.

[BurtWorm]

16. Here's another, also from today:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/24/opinion/24krugman.html?hp


And then there's the Downing Street Memo - actually the minutes of a prime minister's meeting in July 2002 - in which the chief of British overseas intelligence briefed his colleagues about his recent trip to Washington.

"Bush wanted to remove Saddam," says the memo, "through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and W.M.D. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy." It doesn't get much clearer than that.

The U.S. news media largely ignored the memo for five weeks after it was released in The Times of London. Then some asserted that it was "old news" that Mr. Bush wanted war in the summer of 2002, and that W.M.D. were just an excuse. No, it isn't. Media insiders may have suspected as much, but they didn't inform their readers, viewers and listeners. And they have never held Mr. Bush accountable for his repeated declarations that he viewed war as a last resort.

Still, some of my colleagues insist that we should let bygones be bygones. The question, they say, is what we do now. But they're wrong: it's crucial that those responsible for the war be held to account.

[BurtWorm]

33. And another:

Which I just found serendipitously.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2121222/

Reading the Downing Street Tea Leaves
When did Bush decide to invade Iraq?
By Fred Kaplan
Posted Thursday, June 23, 2005, at 2:09 PM PT


Before we leave the Downing Street memo to the squabbles of history—with some touting it as the crowning proof of George W. Bush's duplicity, others dismissing it as a vague trifle, and still others (like me) coming out somewhere in between—let us examine one last intriguing and vital mystery that the document poses: When did Bush decide to go to war in Iraq?

[converted_democrat]

36. It's important to remember when you are watching NBC that their

parent company is GE, who makes alot of money off of defense contracts. So, they are going to have opinions and people with opinions that are pro war whether it's right or not. I'm not distracted, I have a good idea about what's going on, but I take careful care to make sure that the source that is giving the information does not have other motives.

[Zensea]

39. What difference does it make? There is no instant gratification

So what if the Democrats ignored Karl Rove and kept focusing on the DSM every moment? It would still take some time for things to happen.
So why not go after Rove also?
If the DSMs are so insignificant that this latest distraction is enough to derail them, then they wouldn't have amounted to anything anyway.
But if they are truly significant they will still be around in a month and in a year in black and white doing their damage.
It seems to me that there is a fundamental misconsception in your premise, the misconsception being that if all eyes were on the DSMs right now that then suddenly Bush would not be in office. But that's not the way the political process works. If the DSMs do factor in to removing Bush from office it is going to be a long drawn out process that will be built of many different things. It will not be some instant gratification where suddenly the blinders come off of everyone AND they suddenly take action immediately.
Things just don't work that way.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[friesianrider]

9. Well that was a productive comment.

:eyes:

[merh]

26. It really was.

Why is it that folks can't realize that it becomes a distraction only if we allow it. If we combine all of the distractions and use them to establish their ulterior motives, that is to distract from the truth and impeachment talk, then we are using all of our resources and not falling for their games.

It was constructive -- try multitasking and using everything against them that they give us.

[friesianrider]

29. No, it was a smartass comment not warranted in this discussion.

And I think it was very rude, too. If you've got something to say, please do it without trying to make fellow DUers sound like idiots.

[merh]

42. Your post was written to make DUers and dems sound like idiots.

That was the purpose of your post, that we had fallen for the distraction tactics of the admin and were foresaking efforts relative to DSM.

Practice what you preach! :hi:

[friesianrider]

48. Um, no.

It was criticizing the Democratic leadership. Obviously, I wasn't bitching about DUers, unless a lot of DUers regularly make the rounds of the press.

You comment was still very rude towards me and unwarranted.

[merh]

57. Yeah right

Seems like other posters got the same impression, but hey, whatever. :hi:

[friesianrider]

59. Nope, I think it was just you. nt

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[friesianrider]

72. Maybe you should try reading them.

I'm not the one who can't seem to grasp a simple concept here...

:)

[merh]

73. Chip - shoulder - floor

It might help you in your communication efforts. :eyes:

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[merh]

81. Practice what you preach!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[merh]

91. Then stop being one!

And tact, if employed when you wrote your opinion, would have prevented others from finding your post so bothersome.



:boring:

[Name removed]

104. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[H2O Man]

60. If you meant "leadership"

but not DUers, please explain why the OP predicted that you would be "flamed"?

[friesianrider]

64. Because people think the Dem leadership...

Can do little wrong. That we should waste time fighting with assholes like Rove. And it's people who think like that who are making sure the GOP gets away with DSM.

But it's okay for that other DUer to act as if I'm too stupid to multitask - yes, that will get things accomplished - mock fellow Democrats. No fucking wonder we can't get out shit together to win elections.

[H2O Man]

67. "mock fellow Democrats"

Never a good idea, as merh pointed out.

As far as Rove goes, democrats should not ask for an apology. Rather, we should point out that this bitter, nasty bastard is representative of the administration. Bush is becoming unpopular because of his war in Iraq, and his being exposed as a liar to boot. Keep the focus on that.

[friesianrider]

68. Yes, but that's exactly what he did to me...

"Sorry you can only focus on one thing at a time."

What exactly is that? Other than making a comment meant to say that I'm too stupid to multitask? I guess that's okay though...

[H2O Man]

75. I do not think

that you are incapable of multi-tasking, and I agree with most of what you have said about Rove. I agreed with merh, however, that the way you said it seemed out of touch with what is being said on DU. I think that there were at least a half-dozen threads that said Rove is trying to distract us, within a couple of hours after the fat boy said it. On each of those threads, I saw numerous people agreeing. Hence, I would not expect that you would be flamed for suggesting the same thing.

Our best approach now would be to have DUers across the country e-mailing the shows on CNN, MSNBC, and Fox, and calling in to talk shows on TV and radio. We need to hammer home the idea that Rove meant exactly what he said. And we need to keep the pressure on Bush for the war.

Also, we should point out that Cheney has said the enemy was on their last leg, so to speak. They look to be growing stronger. We need to get out of Iraq today.

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[H2O Man]

82. Merh is one of the kindest

and most thoughtful people on here. You may have gotten off on the wrong foot.

[friesianrider]

84. Yeah, I'm sure, I hope I have 10 kids just like him...

Maybe it was when he said he was sorry I could only focus on one thing at a time. Or maybe it was the obnoxious comments hinting that I can't read. I must be overreacting. :eyes:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

94. Well, to be honest, you apparently did very little searching for...

...articles on the DSM before you decided to stir the pot with your initial post.

[H2O Man]

56. I agree 100% with merh.

And I would note that almost every DUer recognized what Rove was doing, and they were able to respond appropriately.

[friesianrider]

61. No shit.

I'm not saying Rove was right, but why waste time fighting a losing battle? Do you think Rove or * will back down? Do you think the American public even cares what Rove has to say? Do you think even 3/4 of the American public knows who Rove even is? Half of them don't even know who the VP is.

If you all want to get all huffy over some comment that is to be expected from an asshat like Rove, then you go right ahead, but I'm sick of losing elections because we can't friggin learn to choose our battles wisely...and a fascist comment by Turdblossum should NOT be at the top of anyone's list with soldiers dying left and right.

[H2O Man]

65. You are being silly now. n/t

[friesianrider]

66. LOL, right. That's what I thought nt

[merh]

71. Of course DUers were able to respond appropriately

as were the Dem leaders, just let them continue their desperate tactics to distract and use their efforts to support our demands, investigate the DSM and the illegal & immoral war.

Hello H2O! :hug:

[H2O Man]

85. Hello, merh!

I just sent you a note.

Reading it will require multi-tasking, of course. But I have confidence in your ability! (grin)

[merh]

96. LOL

:rofl:

:hug: :hug:

[pinto]

95. Rove, the press, the Dems, response, rebuttal and taking our agenda

to the public....this is a great topic for discussion here and one that is a big part of our efforts against the (splintering) Republican majority.

[merh]

97. No one said it wasn't.

:hi:

The tone of the op is what I find offensive, but heck, I'm just one person with the ability to focus on more than one issue at a time and I am not gullible. :shrug:

I also don't believe a broad brush statement that all members of the democratic party are gullible either.

(**Note to self: it is the democratic party, not democrats)

[tk2kewl]

4. Democrats should be able to do more than one thing at time IMO

Go after Rove and keep hammering on DSM

In my neck of the woods Rove's comments make people sick.

[Eric J in MN]

5. We shoudn't talk about anything else? nt

nt

[friesianrider]

8. Of course not, but...

When you get media time, I don't think it is wise to respond to such absurd comments....it would be better spent, IMHO talking about the most pressing issue of the day.

[walldude]

13. I agree.. the Dems spend most of the time

Defending themselves instead of attacking the Administration. And most of them cave, with an apology for their "un-patriotic" remarks. Maybe if they would ignore the lame repubs and just keep on the offensive we could get something accomplished.

[friesianrider]

17. EXACTLY what I'm saying.

Thank you.

[babylonsister]

18. Absurd comments? You betcha, but very poisonous, divisive,

hurtful and untrue, especially to widows of 9/11. This thread is enlightening: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3940048

[friesianrider]

27. More important than the DSMs?

At the end of the day, I think it is smart to choose your battles wisely. The payback for the WH is FAR better than it is for Dems by responding to such trash.

The WH says bullshit everyday that is poisonous, divisive, hateful and untrue...but if we wasted time responding to all of it or even MOST of it, we'd have nothing left to talk about.

[babylonsister]

37. So you suggest we just let Rove SLANDER liberals

and Dems (us!), and not respond? That can't be an option, despite how important the DSMs are. The Minutes are not going away; more and more politicians and articles and internet sources have jumped/are jumping on that bandwagon. Plus, Conyers is far from done with this. And I believe I read the folks who compose families of 9/11 victims are getting involved, too. We can be ambidexterous when shoved. :)

[friesianrider]

49. If we responded EVERY TIME Rove slandered us...

WE'D HAVE TIME FOR NOTHING ELSE.

They do this BS everyday, and if we're stupid enough to respond to it and allow ourselves to be on the defensive, then we deserve what we get.

[babylonsister]

54. Respectfully disagree, but we're allowed to do that. nt

[iconoclastNYC]

7. I think this will drag down the WH's ratings more

I think Americans see that the turdblossom is trying to blame the people who were rigth about Iraq for it failing. Its not going to fly.

Uh oh...last post til i compose my 1000th post opus.

[newscott]

11. That's because the Dems don't set the press agenda

The Repubs do.

[Inland]

12. If the Repugs want to distract with something that makes them look bad....

they can go right ahead.

Like trying to shift attention to SS private accounts, or showing that they will lie about dems in order to claim 9/11 as their own...

It's not the same as the faux indignation over Durbin's remarks or putting MJ and Aruba at the top of every newscast.

As far as I'm concerned, if Bush wants to set himself on fire to change the subject, I'll wait until he's ashes and then bring up the DSM again.

[TheDebbieDee]

14. Another poster, MaddezMom in LBN forum, mentioned that.......

this Rove flap was intentionally initiated to divert attention from the fact that the * administration ADMITTED to the UN recently that they had used torture in an attempt to get info from detainees in Gitmo and Iraq.

It's something that this administration has done over and over again - this "bait and switch" with the news media.

I must admit, I'm surprised that anybody still falls for this. The hard part of this should be figuring out from what truths the flap is diverting our attention.

[friesianrider]

20. Exactly right.

Anytime something like this happens, the Dems should know damn well it's only a distraction...but they haven't seem to have gotten the memo yet.

I just want to pull my hair out that the Dems even bother responding to this horseshit.

[Newkophile]

19. I totally agree

To demand an apology that you must know you're not going to get strikes me as the height of stupidity. All it does is throw the ball right back in their court so that Rove &/or a spokesman can then say anything they want to to the media justifying Rove's stance. Dumb, Dumb, DUMB!! The Dems should be attacking and slinging the shit right back at them, e.g., how 9/11 happened on their watch while they were ignoring advice from Sandy Berger et al to concentrate on the threat of terrorism, ignoring a Presidential Daily Briefing in Aug '01 stating how al Qaida was determined to attack within the U.S., etc. Act like anything they say is bullshit so that even an apology that is never going to be received is just as worthless as the rhetoric they state. Attack, God damn it!!

[friesianrider]

22. My thougths exactly.

Why in the world they even bother demanding an apology is beyond me...it just seems so stupid and gullible of them to even ask. Why even waste time when there's much more important issues?

All they're doing is setting themselves up for being on the defensive...again.

[dogday]

21. More than one result

Everyone know this Karl Rove ploy has more than one result. Yes it is a distraction away from certain issues but Karl is being divisive, he needs the right on the right, so he is trying to divide and conquer.....

[friesianrider]

24. So why we even bother responding is beyond me.

Yes, I get that it is a divisive and hurtful comment to everyone involved in 9/11, etc, but what exactly do the Dems think they are accomplishing, other than giving Rove/WH the chance to respond to the Dems and smear them in the press even further, thus taking press attention away from more important stories?

[dogday]

40. what do you suggest they take it up the rear?

[friesianrider]

50. Again, if we responded every time the GOP slandered us...

We'd do nothing else but sit there like jackasses and defend ourselves for ridiculous claims.

They could call us devil-worshippers and we actually are dumb enough to think that is worthy of a response. It only puts us on the defensive.

[LiberalAndProud]

23. A resignation from Rove would undermine this bogus administration.

Anything that weakens this mad-man's EEmpire is good by me.

I want this ROVEr out of the White House.

[friesianrider]

25. And the fact that some Dems actually think THAT would happen..

Is what's really ridiculous, and why calling for a resignation is stupid. Period.

Can anyone actually see * saying "yes, Dems, you're right. I think I'll call on Rove to resign." Puh-lease.

[LiberalAndProud]

30. I am offended by the never-ending rhetoric. I am an American Citizen.

I am tired of listening to the bleeding-hearT liberal rhetoric. Can SOMEBODY point out to this ROVEr that

WE WERE RIGHT!!!

-edited for spelling

[friesianrider]

32. Yes, but you're kidding yourself if you think...

There is a snowball's CHANCE IN HELL * would EVER ask for Rove's resignation.

Actually being gullible enough to even ask for something you know damn well will never happen is the utmost in stupidity. Why not talk about the REAL issues at hand?

[LiberalAndProud]

38. Forgive me if I believe this is an issue.

I don't listen to Lush Rinbocottin but I heard him say, before I could get to the remote...

"Let me tell you why liberals are stupid."

I have to put up with this **It from him because I believe in every person's right to express him/herself as a private citizen, or even (dare I say it) a private corporation.

HOWEVER. I DO NOT NEED TO PUT UP WITH IT FROM THE WHITEHOUSE.

pardon me for yelling.

[friesianrider]

70. It IS wrong, no one is disputing that.

Really. I don't condone what Rove said, and if times were different these days, I'd definitely say don't let this comment go.

But we have the DSMs, people are DYING left and right, we are spending BILLIONS on this war, and we are suffering grave consequences from a United States President flat-out LYING to the American people. I just don't see, given all these issues that demand our attention NOW, how typical Rove comments even register on the screen. He has always said crap like that and will always say crap like that. The question is, will we let it put us on the defensive or will we ignore it and work on the more important issues? We need to choose our battles more wisely if we want to bring our troops home and get back on track.

[LiberalAndProud]

80. Or we could use the adreneline-rush to energize everyone who was insulted.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. Not gullibility, it's the politics of convenience. aka Avoid the issues.

Right up there with Mike Jackson and the disappearing bride.

[EC]

31. This does not distract, I'm still sending in a letter on DSM

to my Voice of the People for this month, but piling on grievences one after another is meant to bury them.

[friesianrider]

34. You guys actually think we're "outsmarting" Rove?

This is what I'm talking about. Rove is an evil man, but he knows damn well what the hell he is doing. These comments weren't by accident, they were MEANT AND SAID SPECIFICALLY to draw a reaction from the Dems to distract from the issues at hand.

The only way, IMHO we can not allow the ball to be bounced back in the WHs court is to IGNORE THEM. They say shit like this everyday, but if we responded to every single comment like this, we wouldn't get anything else done.

[dogday]

44. Where have you been? We have been ignoring these assholes

for a long time. We have taken their crap and we are not taking it anymore. As far as Rove goes, yes he is an evil mastermind, but it only takes one slip up, one mistake, to bring it all down, and he is capable of making one mistake....

[LiberalAndProud]

63. He pulled this play from his playbook one too many times

This is a tired coach who can't run interference too much longer. Any good baseball team owner would be looking for somebody new.

but of course your right. GWB never was any good at it.

[Singular73]

35. Nah, this backfired on Rove...

Like usual.

He's so overrated.

[Kurovski]

41. DSM will not go away because of Rove's comments.

We are already prepared for a long haul with that. Even Conyers has told us this.

Rove is doing a number of things, and one of them is preparing us for the release of new photos and videos of torture, IMO.

I pose a theory in this link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3938916

I may be an idiot about a lot of things, but I'm not being "stupid" about Rove's comments. Respectfully, please don't call fellow Dems and progressives stupid.

As long as we keep plugging away, level by level, at DSM and the unacceptability of torture, no amount of horsehit from Rove will do a thing to stop us.

[Rex]

43. It's no more surprising than the Republicans ability to believe

Rove and Cheney when they lie outta their asses. Then again, human history shows many examples of man's gullibility when it comes to political bullshit.

[Itsthetruth]

45. They Do That Because It's The "Safe" Thing To Do

Meanwhile most people could give a rats ass about Rove's statements. Most people don't know who the hell he is and don't care. That's just the political reality whether we like it or not. So why make a big deal about Rove when we have the Iraq war to hammer Bush on? Because it's a "safe" issue. Everybody in the Democratic Party can agree that Rove is a bad guy. Better to talk about Rove rather than Iraq. That's because the Democratic Party and most of its leaders have still not taken a position in favor of ending the war against Iraq and support the occupation.

That's my take on it.

[friesianrider]

52. Exactly right!!

Sheesh, I thought everyone on DU had lost their minds.

[Stirk]

46. The sensible thing to do would be to use Rove's comments to segue back

to the DSM.

It doesn't have to be smooth. Just accept invitations from cable news idiots, let them talk up Rove and get their cameras trained on you, waiting to catch some frothing anger, and say, "for this man to slander half the country as traitors, when his own BOSS, President Bush, lied the nation into a war... DSM... etc.".

Either ignore this shit completely, or use it for access to cameras only. But DON'T waste time focussing on it.

[friesianrider]

53. THAT would be smart.

Take the comment and use it as a way to talk about OUR issues (DSMs, the lies, the prisoner abuses, etc etc)

I'm right on track with you on this.

[Dr Fate]

87. They dont WANT to talk about DSM. They want it to GO AWAY.

The "strategists" who lost the last 3 elections have ruled that the DSM is a "crazy, Micheal Moore issue."

[KoKo]

47. I agree....it's becoming a "food fight" and we fell right into the trap

once again. This is a very serious time and instead we seem to be acting like teenagers that the "Principal gave a lecture to" while the Bullies with their Fat Cat Parents are allowed to keep doing what they do best.

It's kind of disheartening. :-(

[friesianrider]

58. Precisely.

We keep taking the bait and always end up looking like jackasses. We need to seriously stop worrying about getting involved in this small crap when there's more pressing issues at hand.

I can't understand for the life of me who more of the Dem leadership gets their panties in a bunch over a fascist like Rove making typical comments for a fascist like Rove, but they stay remarkably silent on so many, many important issues.

[underseasurveyor]

51. Friesianrider first thing I'd like to tell you is..............

I'm so glad to see you here
Welcome back, missed you :pals:

Personally it is my belief that many of the D's, not all of em, "gullibility" is by design. It's difficult for me to believe that these supposedly 'in the know' Dems have no clue about what's really goin' on within "Turdblossoms," heh heh good one, administration with their self serving constitution raping, oily agenda. If nothing else the first four years should have served as the first clue to what lies ahead in the Turdblossoms second term. And this same stop-look-over-there game goes on today? So that leads me to think that either these D's are denser beyond imagination or they know exactly what's going on and they're choosing to play the game.

That's how I see it anyway:shrug: So yeah this diversion crap frustrates me to no end too:grr: You aren't alone my friend.

[friesianrider]

55. Hi! :)

Thank you much :)

I hear ya about Rove...I just see the Dems making the same exact mistakes over and over and over again...and can't help thinking "don't they ever learn?" They have some SERIOUS strategy problems, IMHO, because they keep making the same mistakes over and over by even dignifying these kinds of comments with a response. Only puts us on the defensive for an ultimately very tiny issue given all that is going on today. I think it seems obvious that our efforts would be MUCH better focused on the big issues (remember Carville, "don't sweat the small stuff"). This is small stuff, and anyone who thinks Rove didn't plan for exactly this to happen is, for lack of a better word, a fool.

Until the Democrats learn to FOCUS on the important issues (and Karl Rove is NOT ever one of them when soldiers are dying and we have a historic deficit), we won't be winning much of anything.

[Vinca]

62. Personally, I think ole Karl genuinely misspoke.

He's a controlled asshole 99.9% of the time and we finally got to see that other .1%.

[kaitykaity]

79. No, no, no.

Rove is trying to hit us with crap that only sticks
with the base. A last gasp. Nothing else -- flag
amendment - was sticking.

And now it's Rove who is finally getting flamed.

This is what works with our media. don't you get it?
Short and sweet. He said, she said.

It's that thing Ray McGovern says about false balance.
in the media. "Bush says world flat, Dems disagree.
Some controvesy about shape of earth."

Rove is so desperate that everything is falling apart
that he himself came out of safety to get in the
fray.

Unprecenented. A lot of people have waited a long
time for a shot at Kkkarl. I'm glad they took it
once they got it.

[Dr Fate]

86. Top DEMs WELCOME this distraction. They dont WANT to talk about the DSM.

GET IT???

they put it on websites & write letters merely to fool the base into thinking they are "on it."

That is why you will never see the top, star DEMs talking about it on those TV interview shows.

[friesianrider]

88. Yes, I agree.

And it is a crying shame if you ask me, but the way the party is these days.

[KoKo]

89. Indeed.....n/t

[Tinoire]

105. Totally. A few whispers to the base but no noise & no action. n/t

[The Straight Story]

90. Let me help make the point for you:

To me what your initial post was getting at was that dems seem to have spent more energy and time on a comment made by rover then more substantial issues. They seemed more pissed off, more on fire, and so on while the real issues they sit in back rooms planning on some day maybe saying something to maybe someone.

Stolen elections, dsm, and so on down the line - sure some are doing a little bit on them here and there (and some like conyers are doing a lot more) but they seem to lack passion and energy. Why?

Rover said something which pissed em off - well bushy has done things which have been a zillion times worse. Calling for rover to resign is easy work, let's hear em take on the hard stuff with the same passion.

[friesianrider]

92. Precisely...thank you for the clarification :)

:hi:

Good to see finally some DUers understand my points here. I only wish the Dem leadership took on the really important issues with as much tenacity (or, ANY tenacity would work for me)! :)

[merh]

98. But when you find a weakness in the armor of their champion,

But when you find a weakness in the armor of their champion, when you find that he has made a mistake, a bold face lie that can be proven to be a lie, you attack. That is not falling for their spin, that is not being gullible, that is being smart, especially when that same "champion" has attacked you or members of the democratic party for far less.

Leaders of the democratic party have been waiting a long time for the Rover to make a mistake, to stumble. This is just the begin of his fall. He is trying to distract from the DSM and it is obvious, so they are taking full advantage of his mistake.

That is not being gullible, that is not being played, that is being smart and it is about time the leaders of the party start taking full advantage of all mistakes made by the admin and its masters.

[The Straight Story]

99. I am not saying they were off base or wrong to do it

Just that I wish they had that much passion about other things :)

[merh]

101. Oh, I agree.

It is hard to understand what they are so afraid of and why they allowed themselves to be fooled by the "moral majority" meme that has stifled them all of these years. I can't decide if Clinton's bj did a number on all of our leaders or if they just have so many skeletons buried, they are afraid to act and to be true leaders.

Let's pray that the backbone Dean has shown is contagious and that they do take full advantage of Rover and his mouth.

[The Straight Story]

107. I am with you on that

I don't mind hitting them on all fronts at once :)

[Mythsaje]

102. Rove just painted

a HUGE bullseye on his forehead. It may be meant as a distraction, but, while all the DSM stuff is going on behind the scenes in the House and Senate, the American public (at least the decent people--liberal or otherwise) are outraged.

Having this propoganda hack forced to stand their and take punishment from top Dems, bloggers, Air America, the families of the 9/11 victims, and spouses of currently serving military Democrats is priceless.

It makes them look like bigger boobs than they already are. Only the rabid kool-aid drinkers aren't going..."huh?"

Expose him for the liar that he is and it actually catapults the DSM story in the hearts and minds of those who weren't yet convinced.

[clark4me]

103. Actually both should be addressed

DSM should be getting attention and it should be pushed in every and any way that it can be. Any dumbass remark that the Administration makes should also get attention.

The Democrats have been too careful and it hasn't done anything to help this country. Dean is doing what needs to be done and once in a while some of the Senators open their mouth, but I fear they run back to their offices and check for the "coverage" and "reaction" of their remarks and THEN decide if they will shut up, apologize and maybe venture out to make another remark. They are much too controlled (by fear of the RW media) and measured.

The Repugs have buried us with their dumb ass remarks and gotten much traction in their favor while we have had ample opportunity to make remarks, statements...and adress DSM as well as a multitude of other issues, but the Dems are either complicit to an extent or AFRAID. Take your pick

[Itsthetruth]

106. If Rove Should Fall Who Gives A Crap?

Big deal. Bush will replace him with another asshole, perhaps a bigger one.

This is a real nice distraction and diversion from the big issues that the public is concerned about .... Iraq for example.

[More Than A Feeling]

108. *ignites flamethrower*

yes, it is worth it. Putting Karl Rove's political scalp on the mantle would be a big accomplishment and send one message "DO NOT FUCK WITH US"
Seriously, part of political success is establishing that you are a force to be reckoned with, and getting people to want to be a part of that. It's good for the ego. Frankly, the Democratic ego isn't looking to healthy. We need all the pride boosts we can get. Noone wants to hang out with people who don't take pride in their party. Also it cuts down on the future bullshit we will be forced to put up with, if the other side learns that hateful political rhetoric comes with consequences.

Fighting back when attacked. It's the only way they will learn. When have Republicans failed to fight back against anything we have said about them?

[Straight Shooter]

109. I think Rove should be focused on. Too many people don't know who he is.

They also don't know the power he has.

Lots of good posts on this thread. I also mentioned when Rove made his comment to watch out, something else was coming down the pike. But, OTOH, he may have been just full of himself (or full of shit, what's the difference with Rove) and he overreached.

The thing to drive home with people is that when Rove gets out in public and speaks, he's speaking for bush, he's saying what bush wants to say but doesn't have the guts to do it himself.

That's why we need to focus on Rove, as well as certainly all the other priorities. We have a lot on our plate. Let's see if we can stick a fork in Rove first.