Objectively, we're right and they're wrong.

[Bleacher Creature]

Maybe I'm just too partisan to see things clearly, but it drives me NUTS when I hear people refer to all the sniping going on in politics today as being nothing more than a heightened degree of debate. I have a hard time articulating this, but these people (i.e. Chimpy and the rest of the Rapture Right) are wrong. Period. No debate.

Look, I believe in my core that America is best when we have two viable parties arguing about basic philosophical differences. I also believe that reasonable people can have an honest disagreement on the issues. So if people want to debate whether we should have programs like Social Security and Medicare, fine. Should there be a separation of church and state?? Bring it. But what's going on today is not debate.

What Rove said was wrong. It was evil. It is not opinion. Same thing about lying your way into a war, exploiting 9/11, etc. I just wish people would stop framing it as an ongoing debate.

[stepnw1f]

1. I'm with You

There really needs to be a demand for change. Debate is over indeed. These fools never have listened.

[Bleacher Creature]

2. At least not the current batch of 'em. n/t

[Bleacher Creature]

3. Bump --

Just to see if anyone else has a thought.

[Ragnar]

4. A note from an independent radical.

All republicans are not to blame on this. The current administration only communicates on outbound channels, but there are a few who are still independent thinkers. Categorizing someone as the opposition based on something as ephemeral as party affiliation is why partisanship is such a problem today. Leave the doors open, and welcome those from the other side of the political spectrum who wish to discuss issues.

It is not when two political parties debate the issues that democracy is most vital, but when everyone who really cares and has an idea is heard from.

[RandomKoolzip]

5. Most republicans don't seem too upset, however.

They know that their leadership is fucking them and the rest of us royally, yet they are not speaking out in great numbers, nor are they willing to actually debate the issues in a true level public forum, preferring to receive their news and opinions from "official" party channels which doctor facts at the command of economic elitists with billions of dollars and axes to grind.

Which strikes me as evidence that the ones with denial issues and adherence to partisanship are the ones on the other side of the aisle....objectively speaking.

If those "indepedent" thinkers are willing to make the leap from mild doubt to all out acceptance of the facts, we'll be here to listen to them. Until then, you shouldn't expect us to be warm and welcoming to those who enable such wanton destruction and irresponsibilty through their apathy.

In other words, "they started it."