Raising Republicans (Hillary Clinton & Co.)

[Joz]

I'd like to share a story of what I see as having been a major problem in the democratic party that seems to be coming back as an issue. These are things that were done that made me and a number of friends of mine grow up to vote republican once turning 18. That means the 2000 election. These are also things that I don't understand why democrats would do, as I now don't think it's democrat-like at all.

I was a teenager in the 90s. Boys coming of age in America during that time and beyond tend to have certain popular hobbies: playing video games, listening to music, using the Internet. A couple things happened that REALLY turned me and my friends off to democrats. Number one was the Communications Decency Act of 1996. In case somebody isn't familiar this is the legislation that Bill Clinton signed in an attempt to censor the Internet. Using swear words on the web was not allowed, and nude pictures even for artistic reasons were also not allowed to be posted by ANYBODY, with the penalty being something like 3 years in jail and/or $55,000. "Black Thursday" happened on February 8th and I remember it. Most major websites and a lot of the web turned their pages black in protest of this unconstitutional law. Go to http://birthday.yahoo.com - It's #11 in the top 100 moments on the web of the last 10 years. A unification like this has not happened on the web since. Us 16 year olds were more than rejoiced when a Republican Judge in Philadelphia striked the law down and declared it unconstitutional. Yay, the republicans saved our constitutional rights to freedom of speech!

Then there was Tipper Gore and her crusade to clean up music, there seemed to be a sense that she wasn't satisfied with the Parental Advisory stickers they put onto cds and wanted to censor/ban all the music that had "bad lyrics". The icing on the cake was the Gore/Lieberman ticket. There was nothing specifically scary about Gore, he didn't look to be much smarter/cooler than W, but it was his vice presidential candidate, Joe Lieberman, who told us that he was going to clean up the video game industry, censor out any games that had blood in them, and we're no longer going to be able to have fun playing Mortal Kombat. And I'm supposed to vote for these guys!?!? YEAH RIGHT!! After all this, I cannot share the excitement and enthusiasm I had going into the voting booth and casting a vote for Bush/Cheney - who didn't talk about any of this censorship crap. My joy that they had "won" and that our country would stand as it had been, and our constitution would not be thrown out the window by the democrats was through the roof. I was relieved.

Well... things didn't quite work out. Turns out George W. is the worst president ever and I had wished I voted for Gore instead. After all, a battle to censor video games and music pales in comparison to starting wars with countries for fake reasons, killing thousands upon thousands, setting ourselves up for a dangerous future, ignoring America and running the country into the ground. Bush makes Clinton look like a God. And I now know that Clinton was overall a great president. Needless to say me and those same friends voted for Kerry in 2004. I was a strong Kerry supporter (still am). I've done my research and realize that the republicans are and have been pretty evil for a very long time. But Joe Average doesn't do political research, he just hears news stories once in a while.

So it comes to current day. I'm a grown up kid and still like to listen to music, use the internet, and play video games. I was browsing some Grand Theft Auto (the game) websites the other day and what do I see as front page news? A headline that reads "Clinton Speaks Out Against Grand Theft Auto". My heart dropped into a pool of flashbacks. The news story included:

The senator took direct aim at one particular video game, Grand Theft Auto, a series popular among players and criticized by parents for its crime spree role-playing. "They're playing a game that encourages them to have sex with prostitutes and then murder them," said Clinton.

I'm not here to debate the values of the game (rated 17+). I'm here to say: Here we go again, she's going to raise more republicans. I never heard Kerry, Edwards, or Dean talking about any of this crap. How is using the government to limit free speech/expression democratic party values? Was it the democrats who were outraged about janet jackson's not even fully naked breast falling out of her shirt and being on tv? Can you imagine if these days Bush declared that there is to be no profanity on the Internet or else you will go to jail? Can you imagine the outrage? Well Clinton actually did this. Imagine if as many people as today were online 9 years ago. Or how about if Bush declared intent to ban violent movies. No more Kill Bill. It looks like Hillary is poised to do similar things, and will in turn raise an entire generation of republicans.

I will likely work hard getting the vote out against her during the primaries if she runs. Her appeal to socially conservative parents may garner temporary votes but will lose more votes for the party in the long run. This is why I hated dems as a teen, and up until only a couple years ago.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. self deleted

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. OK here is one thing you should know

Grand Theft Auto and San Andreas are not popular among cops either.

There is more, and I AM a game designer... games in some ways glorify war, and games in some ways glorify violence... it is the nature of the beast.

That said, what you are describing is also talking points, gaming has been under attack by social conservatives on both sides, (but mostly the extreme religious right FOR LITERALLY DECADES) go to a paper and pencil store and talk to the old timers about oh Dungeons and Dragons and how it was blamed for EVERYTHING! Or what about Vampire the Masquerade?

No you guys had a very nice and to a point easy teen age years... were you did have some pressures on your hobbies, but it was easy. Welcome to the real world, nice splash, this Saviour's of yours may end up sending you to the ultimate obsenity... so will you keep voting Republican?

Oh and one more thing, how exactly will yuo work aginst Hillary, the Junior Senator from New York, when you are in California? Just wondering... that IS the California Flag.

[Joz]

6. Will I keep voting republican?

Did you not see the part of the post where I de-credit the "long time" history of the republicans? Why in the hell would anybody vote for them after becoming politically knowledgeable? Of course I would vote for Hillary if she were to become the candidate. I'm just saying that I don't think she'd be the best president for the sake of the future of the party.

How will I work against her, when I am in California? Yes, that IS the California flag. I don't know, for some weird reason I thought that we had these things called "primaries" in which the dems in each state got to choose who they wanted the presidential candidate to be. I thought that perhaps I would join the side of one of the other democratic candidates for the nomination, but I guess I'm crazy!!

[Deja Q]

16. How can I both agree and disagree?!

Oh come on. The majority of dems vote w/repukes, with the latter then accusing dems of being SOFT.

No good deed goes unpunished and Clinton was quite the enabler for any number of reasons (telecom, welfare, DMCA, DOMA, 55mph speed lmit, jocelyn elders, monica, mishandling of waco, wanting to invade iraq, and on and on...)

Two sides. Same coin.

But I will admit; computer video games are more divisive than anything. Made only for freaks like myself who don't know what a life is.

[EST]

3. Ten years ago I thought Hillary might make a good president.

She has, unfortunately, come under the sway of the earlier incarnation of the DNC, all trying to out holy each other and the neocons. She still hasn't figured out that merely being pres is of no real value unless you can actually leave the country better off than you found it.
Of course, nobody's version of 'better' seems to match anyone else's.
If the theocracy becomes a real time 24/7 reality, which seems pretty likely, there will be few video games, naked statues, any sort of art that disagrees with the published norms, etc.
People will fuck, of course, but there will be very little joy in it and republicans, religious leaders and some democrats in name only will still get off on pedophilia but finding them and prosecuting them will become increasingly difficult.

I would most assuredly vote for H.C. if she ends up being the nominee (highly unlikely) over almost any repug, but I certainly would not be happy about it. Any more rule by the incomprehensibly incompetent rethuglicans is just beyond the pale. It's going to take fifty to one hundred years for America to recover from the horror that the corrupt leaders of the last forty years have inflicted on us, if it can happen at all. I am getting pretty old and shall not live long enough to see America a truly free nation again, but there may be a little satisfaction in assisting the honest people in aiming in that direction, once again.

[Devlzown]

4. There are plenty of us who don't like Hillary.

She can vote for the war, but she has all this outrage about a video game? My suggestion is that you get organized for a candidate within the Democratic Party that you like (in 2008) and forget about Hillary. I think she's gonna have a lot of big money backers, but a strong grass roots other candidate just might be able to defeat her. And if she does win the nomination, then you'll just have to make a decision about whether you want to vote for her or go third party. I don't know how I'll vote if she's the nominee.

[democracyindanger]

5. Riiiiiight.

If, even as a 16-year-old, you thought Democrats were the ones threatening your ability to play video games, then you weren't paying attention. Moral Majority...Christian Coalition...sound familiar? And you became a Republican because of the "Republican" appeals court judge? How strange, considering it was the evil commie liberal ACLU that filed the case. No Republican stood up for your right to watch cyberporn. No Republican congressman hit the airwaves to decry the act, no Republican or conservative organization filed an amicus brief. In fact, it was DEMOCRATIC Senator Pat Leahy that introduced a bill to quash the indecency bits of the act, calling them unconstitutional. It was Grassley, Dole, Coats, McConnell, Shelby and Nickles--REPUBLICANS all, who wanted to amend the Telecommunications act to prohibit "transmission of indecent material to minors"--which sounds like it's all about porn, but it also included things like "indecent language."

Hillary didn't "raise an entire generation of republicans." They're hatched in swamps of ignorance.

[Joz]

8. Leeeeeeft

Oh really!? I guess most 16 year olds are paying good attention to political details in this country then? How about more like 95% of them could care less? Thats the point!! It was portrayed as "Bill Clinton signed the telecommunications decency act" pinning a lot of responsibility on him (did you look at the yahoo birthday link?), and reported as a republican judge overturning the decision. I am well aware NOW that it was democrats who did a lot of the fighting against the act. In fact, I couldn't be prouder of my state senator for being one of the FEW who voted against it. The point is that almost no 16 year olds follow the ACLU, congress, Pat Leahy, etc. Go ask them who their senators are, 9/10 will not have a clue as to even one senator. So it's best not to do stupid crap like sign the decency act and have your name attached to it, to yell about censoring video games and music and have it get on the news, because thats the only thing they will see, and they will NOT want to vote for you.

I didn't say Hillary raised an entire generation of republicans, I said she could if she makes some of the mistakes Bill did, which is what she is on her way to doing currently.

[mitchtv]

7. Michel Powell has done more damage to

free speech than any Dem.
Now the patriot act, and the anti gay amendment attempt, and the Teri Schiavo affair. Keep playing with your toys while the the environment dies You will soon be allowed to shoot people for real in Iran and Syria. Don't expect any help frrom the free Republican media. Dissent=treason to these fuckers

[LightningFlash]

9. Welcome to reality.

And I agree that there is way too much censorship vowed by these conservatives, it's disgusting. As for Hillary Clinton, Joe LiEBERMAN and their ilk I believe these people were never democrats.

They are social conservatives with the democratic label. I don't at all see anything but leadership cozied up to the far right.

Don't vote for anything that comes out of the DLC and especially them. Help Howard Dean and the new face of the democratic party by researching their activities.

http://www.democrats.org

Dean's the only official chairman there is bringing the backbone back to the party and raising the roof.

[Joz]

10. Interesting

I never knew about the DLC, thanks for the info, looked it up in wikipedia, v.interesting, and somewhat lame, surprised to see kerry's name on there??? I thought him significantly more liberal than Hillary for example. Anyway, to what you say about dean and etc, here here!!

[LightningFlash]

11. Kerry's the middle man...

Not true DLC but heavily impartial to DLC, used to be DLC all the time until going liberal DNC.....

He's the ultimate conundrum....Can't see where he is one moment to the next :shrug: :think: But, I think he is seperating himself from them more and more....

[Clark2008]

12. Looking for a primary candidate?

Well, I'd be remiss if I didn't tell you to look at:

http://www.securingamerica.com

[Perky]

13. cool calculating and correct Hillary

While I am not for censorship per se...Hooray for Hillary for criticizing GTA and its creators on such dreadful content...if accurate. I am not saying it should be banned and there is nothing in your post in which she says that it should be either. I am just saying it's inappropriate material.

She is not entitlted as an individual and a leader and an opinion maker to say anything about gratuitutous sex and criminal activity being thought of as appropriate????

If you are so libertarian in your views that you would seek to silence those who raise objections in the public square to that which most Americans think is pepugnant, perhaps you should take another trip to the right.

The political side of this is actually pretty crafty. in that she is seeking to inoculate herself from what will be attempts by some on the right to play the hollywood card in 2008.

[LightningFlash]

14. Actually, it's nothing of the sort.

Censorship is bad in all its forms, especially in war. People deserve to see and must see the horrors that the USA is causing, right there in raw detail.

GTA and other forms of entertainment provide this, a sense of real free speech and understanding. They should not be sold to or marketed to anyone under the age of 17, and by law they are not.

But they should not be banned, and neither should graphic war image portrayals. As with censorship, comes dissensitizement. Everyone becoming fully dissensitized is the biggest issue of all....

No to any kind of censorship, that goes for Hillary Clinton policies.

[Perky]

15. Dude,,,did she call for censorship

No...all she said it that it was disgusting.

[Joz]

19. uncool hillary in the eyes of the youth

...who will hate her presidency (should it be so) if she does these types of things and excitedly vote for the republican candidate in the next election by the time they are in their mid 20s.

Of course she is, of course she is entitled to make an opinion on it. Opinions are not what I am concerned about, it's being in power to make moves based on those opinions is what I'm worried about, like what her husband did.

I think you are wrong in thinking most americans think GTA is repugnant, I think it's 50/50 at best, more likely to be more people in favor of the game, wouldn't be one of the highest selling games of all time otherwise.

I don't know where you are coming from with these libertarian claims. I'm not seeking to silence anybody. I'm fearing censorship policies from democrats in the highest and most representative offices in the land. I simply do not think that censorship is a democratic value at all, and I think that censoring things while being a democrat in the highest office of the land reflects poorly on our party and misleads people to think that we are a bunch of f what the constitution says types. And if you don't think people are going to vote the other way based off of that, you are seriously wrong.

[shugah]

17. hi Joz! welcome to DU!

:hi:

i understand your point on this - video games, music, and internet activity are important to teens - and yes, probably most of them are not all that politically aware. if they hear that someone is trying to censor or take away these parts of their culture, that "someone" becomes the enemy, no matter who they are or what else they may stand for. it makes perfect (tho sad) sense.

i don't think politicians tend to campaign to 16 years olds and that makes sense too. 16 year olds can't vote, and as i think we agree, most are not particularly politically aware. do i think polilticians should consider this demographic as potential future voters? well, i think that should be more of an overall party function.

but i think you have to admit most teens don't even want to become politically informed, so it presents a problem. any rumors of threat to video games etc. will spread like wildfire. something like the prisoners being held at gitmo is probably not a topic on most teen related message boards.

the problem as i see it is finding a way for the more politically aware in that age group to counter the info/disinfo and try to shed some light on what is really happening. such as, despite any legislation or rhetoric on the subject - to my knowledge no video games have been banned, the internet has grown bigger with infinite newness and variety, and your cds are censored only if you shop at walmart. 16 year olds today are doing the same things you were at that age (probably with even more graphic sex and violence).

anyway - just wanted to let you know i understand what you are saying. if i can suggest it tho - rather than working against any particular possible candidate, try to find someone to throw your support to. much more positive! i think it is so sad that so many young people are already so cynical about politics.

[Joz]

18. Yep

Thanks for the welcome. Yeah thats pretty much exactly what I meant. It's true that 16 year olds can't vote, but they turn 18 pretty soon, plus 18 year olds and 16 year olds are not *that* far apart in their ways. I'm basically wishing for certain democrats to, I don't know, be more democratic on some issues such as censorship, because it gives young voters the wrong impression and a misrepresentation of the party, allows them to easily fall into the inviting right wing, then it takes a long time to break them out of this.

When I said "working against Hillary", I didn't mean it particularly like that, just to vote against her, I DID mean voting for somebody more socially liberal that identifies with my beliefs better.

[welshTerrier2]

20. the two biggest issues ...

welcome to DU, Joz !!

i'm 55 and i want you to know that it is nothing short of inspirational to see people your age paying attention to the political process ... too many people in this country, old and young alike, take democracy for granted ... they're too busy living their lives to realize they have a responsibility to learn what the hell is going on and make at least some effort to make this country better ...

fwiw, i will not only NOT be supporting Hillary in the primaries, i won't be supporting her in the general election either should she become the nominee ...

but my reasons are very different from yours ... i really know nothing about video games and what content some found objectionable so i won't comment on the censorship issue ...

but what i will comment on is what i consider to be the two key issues that are driving this country into the ground ... they are the issues that i wish your generation, and mine, would finally rise up in protest against ... and, btw, they are issues that Hillary, and Bill, have never mentioned and they never will ...

the US has for some time been the wealthiest and most powerful nation in the world ... we had a real opportunity to make life better not just for all American citizens but for people all over the world ... we could have been a model for other countries that showed that our values, our freedoms and our institutions were committed to the ideals embodied in our Constitution ...

but instead, we've allowed powerful, monied interests to trash America ... American government has been totally corrupted by money ... legalized lobbying is nothing less than blatant bribery of government officials ... issue one is that we need to reverse the stranglehold that massive, trans-national corporations have on our government ...

and issue two is foreign policy ... the US, not just under bush but under many Democratic regimes as well, has long been an imperialist country ... we exploit weaker nations with our economic power ... those that don't co-operate are "liberated" from their evil leaders by our military ... but we are not liberators; we're occupiers and exploiters ... it's been going on for more than a hundred years!!

the country you are inheriting is already at serious risk ... the wealth some of us older folks have known is disappearing ... there is no way the US and its citizens can maintain our standard of living because our government is serving only the interests of mega-corporations and their wealthiest stockholders at the expense of what our society really needs ...

and our imperialist foreign policy, all over the world, has built a world never more hostile to US interests than it is now ... America was one held in high esteem for our ideals and the wealth we created for a strong and growing middle class ... but now the great American empire finally must pay its bills ... and the worst of this will fall on you and the generations to follow ... the empire is collapsing under its own corrupted policies ...

we welcome you to our struggle ... we're all in this together ...

[Joz]

21. Hello!

Thanks for the welcome; thanks for the praise! I agree with you on the two issues you raise. Mostly upon the imperialist sense. I agree with you completely, I am even against hawaii & alaska. You say we've been doing this for over a hundred years. Is that really the case? I thought we were a rather isolationist nation up until we got engaged in world war 2. FDR wanted (or rather, felt the necessity) to get involved with the war before pearl harbor but he knew the american people/politicians wouldn't have it. Right?? Or is there something I'm missing?

And yes you are right, people in their late teens/early 20s need to get involved in politics more, it's freakin pathetic, the ignorance, when what was it, 90% of 18-24s did not vote in the last election, YOU KNOW that if a proper 50% or more of them did vote, we'd have a different president now, even if just 10% more of them voted we probably would. It's SO FRUSTRATING. I drop some political talk to my non political friends every now and then when we hang out regarding important issues. Only when you start going off about what is really going on that they had no idea about, PNAC, Bush's pre-9/11 anti-terrorism policies, the large amount of money spent on other taken-over countries and not on ours, the religious right, the unconstitutional crap republicans are trying to pull, do they get pissed off enough/amazed enough to want to do something. I'm trying to get everyone out to vote in the mid-terms. Doesn't matter AS much here in California, but I have some old friends in PA, etc.