Hey, Tom Cruise! Two Words...Andrea Yates...you friggin' idiot.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

Whether you know it or not Mr. Cruise & your fellow cult members, the brain uses chemicals and hormones to allow for the signaling from one neuron to the next and to facilitate the growth or paring of synaptic connections between neurons. Most, if NOT ALL, psychiatric problems are biological in nature and involve these neurotransmitter systems (i.e., dopamine problems implicated in schizophrenia, serotonin in depression, etc.). Vitamins and exercise are certainly good for the body and may help some psychiatric symptoms, but THEY CANNOT permanently reverse a malfunction in neurotransmitter function.

Frankly, I hope the media highlights the next high profile and tragic mental disorder case (e.g., Andrea Yates) and emphasizes that the pseudo-religious, anti-psychiatry bullshit you promulgated the other day may be partially to blame for these sort of tragedies.

BTW - WHY THE FUCK ARE WE LISTENING TO MEDICAL ADVICE FROM SOMEONE WHO BELIEVES THAT HIS SOUL WAS BORN FROM AN E.T. NAMED "XENO"? Could scientology's anti-psychiatry campaign be born from a deep-seated (and possibly well-founded) fear of their followers being diagnosed with a DELUSIONAL DISORDER?

JB

[Karla Marx]

1. Tom Cruise is an idiot.

'Nuff said.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

2. Someone told me he didn't graduate from high school. Is this correct?

If so, I would have loved for Matt Lauer to ask when Cruise received his M.D....oh, wait, that's right. You didn't even graduate from high school. :)

JB

[Midlodemocrat]

44. I think that is correct.

But I can't remember where I heard it.

Cruise is a complete nutjob. $cientology is pretty scary shit and for him to come out about the psychiatry profession like that is despicable. A lot of people's lives have been saved due to psychotropics and to disparage them is heinous.

I can't stand that guy. Frankly, I will Frist him here and say that by watching him on TV, I think he is manic.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

45. Thanks for the confirmation. And, I second the manic dx. n/t

JB

[Orangepeel]

76. props on the coinage

I just wanted to acknowledge your excellent use of "frist" as a verb!

:thumbsup:

[Nothing Without Hope]

110. yes, and Fristian is a good noun for nutjob pseudoreligious denominations

I'm not a Christian myself, but even I can see those guys certainly are not from the same planet as Jesus.

[rodeodance]

8. try to get pass his fluff and listen to what he said-carefully. Labeling

is a other's tactic.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rodeodance]

19. I am ignoring the scientology aspect--I think he makes good points

about abuse of prescription drugs, psychiatry etc. Lots of critical studies have been done. His message gets lost when we focus on the fluff or whatever you want to call it.

[rodeodance]

27. and no, i am not a scientologist. and that is not the issue for me.

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. He is causing harm

by speaking out against something he has no authority to speak out about. His fans will listen to him and some will take his advice. What if Andrea Yates had said she took no meds for her severe post partum depression because of what Tom Cruise said?

He needs to stick to acting and quit handing out medical advice.

[rodeodance]

32. agree--but don't conflact Yates (and others) actions to listening to

what Tom says. People can sort threw this.

[proud2BlibKansan]

50. But was Yates on meds?

I thought I read that she refused to take them.

[Orangepeel]

77. I remember reading that she doesn't want to take her meds now

because when she is lucid, she realizes what she did. She'd rather be crazy than aware.

edited to remove an inaccurate statement

[Carni]

80. I think at one point she was on them but some extreme preacher...

told her that she wasn't being a good enough Christian etc
(can't recall the man's name but he's a nut job from Michigan)

As far as I am concerned the husband of Yates was more guilty than she was for insisting that she follow the mumbo jumbo of some religious extremist instead of reputable medical advice.

That case really bothers me!

[proud2BlibKansan]

84. Me too

I can't believe her husband was never charged. He knew she was losing it and he left her alone with the kids.

[Carni]

94. Yep! Like that isn't neglect of some kind!

It also bothered me that he was plastered all over with his fans at his prayer vigils and whatever else serving as the focal point.

[proud2BlibKansan]

95. He also kept getting her pregnant

and her post partum depression just got worse and worse.

[Carni]

98. I know

And then she was homeschooling five kids to boot?

I love my kid, but I also want a life--Andrea Yates did not have one and then she was told to shut up and pray because she wasn't "good enough"

The whole thing is sickening!

[Shallah Kali]

112. Russel Yates should have been charged with negligent homicide

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/02/28/national/main502440.shtml

Rusty Yates described how just weeks after wife Andrea first tried to kill herself with sleeping pills in 1999, he found her in the bathroom with a knife to her throat.

SNIP

Yates wrestled the knife away, but he didn't take her to the hospital until the next day.

SNIP

He said the doctor, Eileen Starbranch, initiated the decision. Starbranch testified earlier the couple decided to stop taking the medications and that they were considering having another child against her warnings.

SNIP

A medical chart note on Aug. 18, 1999, the day Starbranch gave the advice, reads:

"Apparently patient and husband plan to have as many babies as nature will allow!" the psychiatrist wrote. "This will surely guarantee future psychotic depression."
~~~~~~
Other articles at the time said there was more than one suicide attempt. How many times does a person have to attempt suicide before you take their illness seriously???? If she had been watched and treated for her own sake this horror inflicted upon the children very well might have been prevented.

[Carni]

156. No argument here!

I agree completely the man is negligent IMO

[ellenfl]

46. what he needs is a good chemically imbalanced

stalker. maybe then he would acknowledge that some (mental) things are beyond our control.

ellen fl

[earth mom]

54. Cruise is not causing harm.

He is waking people up. Many drugs have worse side effects than the original reason for which they are being prescribed. People need to look into other ways in which to heal their bodies such as diet and getting rid of the chemicals in water and food that are being pumped into our bodies without our knowledge. Other countries don't suffer the illnesses-mental and otherwise that the U.S. does. There IS a reason for it.

To blindly accept what the pharma giants and psychiatrists and doctors dish out to us without question is the biggest mistake people can make. Why do most meds have such horrible side affects? That alone should give anyone pause. We should be delving deeper and demanding more answers. Instead of trusting other people to watch our backs when they have such vested interest in our following their lead...as in BILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

[proud2BlibKansan]

56. But many people need drugs

I have a family member who is mentally ill. I have seen her on and off drugs. She is able to have a fairly normal and independent life when on meds. Off them, she is hospitalized and unable to function.

If she ever told me that she was going off her meds because of something someone like Tom Cruise said, I would be more than a bit upset.

People like Tom Cruise have a huge fan base and their fans put a lot of stock in what they say. He has a responsibility to speak responsibly. He is not an authority on anti-depressants and can indeed cause harm when he gets on a soapbox.

[mondo joe]

71. BS. Or did you think Frist did a good job diagnosing Terri Schiavo based

on a videotape?

[earth mom]

139. Frist has his head up his ass-everyone knows that!

:eyes:

[CBHagman]

88. Spend time with bipolar, schizophrenic, or depressed people.

Mental illnesses have been around for centuries, but our understanding of how to treat them has grown dramatically in the last 30 years. I am old enough to remember when people sneered at suicides as "cowards" and thought they were damned to hell, or that depression merely indicated a character flaw, an inability to pull oneself out of it.

While I understand the concern about use of medications and agree that there are dangers in overusing them, I also want to remind you that there are many good reasons to use medications and indeed lives that are altered for the better and/or prolonged. Don't kid yourself about diet and exercise being able to do everything. Talk to someone who has Type 1 diabetes, or cholesterol that scores off the charts and does not respond to dietary and exercise changes, or bipolar disorder.

I'm puzzled by your question implying that most medications have "horrible side effects." Which medications? I can't honestly think of a single medication I've taken that has caused "horrible" side effects. While I took relativel few medications for the first 42 years of my life, I can't say anything I've used since then or before has had ghastly side effects.

As for Cruise, he IS hurting people. He's doing the Bill Frist Diagnosis Shtick, but at least Frist has a medical degree. Cruise doesn't even have a high school diploma, if I recall correctly, and he essentially plays dress-up for a living. Think about it. Who is he to judge women with post-partum depression?

Our culture is pretty celebrity-mad, at least on the surface, and I've already read newspaper reports of patients making worried calls to doctors after Cruise's comments. A celebrity does have the power to influence things for good or ill. It's also lovely if they don't behave like total PRICKS in public!

[earth mom]

143. Ah but you see, I have.

My brother was bipolar and his meds never worked for him properly. And the side effects drove him up the wall. He had a very sad ending. Maybe he would still be here if they could have found the proper meds that would have worked for him or maybe alternative medicine held the key. We'll never know.

I myself suffered from depression as a teen and was even prescribed prozac as a young adult after my mom was killed by a drunk driver. The medication didn't work-no surprise there since I was no doubt experiencing normal emotions. After that, I changed my lifestyle and diet and my life changed in a positive way. Though losing my mom still pains me greatly to this day; 23 years later.

In addition, I have another close family member with extreme hyperactivity-adhd-who probably would have been prescribed ritalin except because I had already found out about alternative medicine therapies, I was able to help him go on a special diet with supplements to the point that he is cured of his hyperactivity.

I KNOW what I'm talking about.

[goclark]

101. Yes, they need to really probe the side effects

and they just dance around them on the TV ads.

The softly tell you at the end ,"if you have liver problems bla bla bla bla, you should not take this drug."

How the hell would we know if we have 1/2 of what they say?

Drugs are a two edged sword. Both ways they can hurt you if the drug industry keeps pushing us to take them . There is NO control of how they will effect each person.

[mondo joe]

102. I take it you were fine with Frist diagnosing Terri Schiavo?

[goclark]

129. Hell no! I am not talking about that at all.

[mondo joe]

147. Then why not trust a person and their physician to make the best

choice for them?

[goclark]

157. I do trust the person and the physician

I don't trust all of these overkill ADS telling me,to tell my physician, that I want to take Previcid.

My doctor is perfectly prepared to give me options.

[madeline_con]

106. "He is waking people up..."

He's waking them up to what a moron he is.

All of a sudden this guy who believes he's possessed by a ghost from a volcano is dispensing medical advice, and people BELIEVE IT!!!

:rofl:

[Carl Yasutomo]

122. One of my in-laws has schizophrenia

I have seen her on her medication and off. Believe me, if you knew someone suffering from a debilitating mental illness like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder and you saw what medication can do for them, you would be furious with Tom Cruise. Psychiatric drugs have been a GODSEND for millions of people who would otherwise have no chance of a fulfilling life. Cruise obviously has no idea what he is talking about.

[bettyellen]

130. he's against all drugs and psychiatrity, and that is doing real harm...

and next time my cousin gets carted off to the bin, i'll tell her you blame her for drinking water and eating food for the groceries.
of course it won't sink in becasue she's stopped taking her meds and not lucid, again.
lots of people do abuse drugs, abut lot of lives are saved,
becasue you have no experience with it, you're fine with a broad brush. sorry, there are loads of us in fear our loved ones will hear this stupid shit and go off their meds and crumble again.

[girl gone mad]

155. I don't think people need to have "authority"

on a subject to be allowed to speak their mind. I also don't know that he's giving medical advice, just stating his opinion, however misguided it may be.

100 years from now, people will probably view the way we treat many illnesses, including psychiatric disorders, as barbaric. But, for now, medication is often the best or only option.

I do think that medications are overprescribed and that there is not enough research being done on non-drug therapies, sometimes because the financial incentive for creating new drugs is so great.

I don't believe that it's a bad thing for someone to question the drug industry or psychiatry anymore than I think it's wrong to question religious beliefs. Science is strong. The medical industry should be capable of defending itself. Maybe Cruise is doing us a favor by speaking about these issues. It represents a chance for the psychiatric field to educate people on the benefits of drug therapies, and a chance for more level-headed critics of the drug industry to educate people on prescription drug overuse and abuse.

[thecorster]

48. If people don't realize

that our society overmedicates itself, we're in worse shape than I thought. Every commercial you see on the evening news broadcast slot is for some kind of perscription med. OF COURSE AMERICANS ARE OVERMEDICATING. I don't need a whack-job like Tom Cruise to tell me that. He was supposed to be promoting some shitty movie, not lecturing Matt Lauer.

[More Than A Feeling]

53. Hypothesis: Americans are not overmedicating

One: Science is producing medications for things that have never been treatable in that way before.

Two: People with mental illness used to be sent away, or hidden as an embarassment.

In fact, according to this history of mental illness (at a website of a mental hospital), it was drugs that allowed mental patients to return to the world from the institutions.

http://cscwww.cats.ohiou.edu/~ridges/history.html

Perhaps the question is not why we are taking so much medication, rather it is why do we have so many problems that need medication in the first place?

Are they inevitable, and new treatments to be celebrated?

Or are they somehow inflicted by circumstances that could be altered?

[proud2BlibKansan]

58. Drugs have made a huge difference

for my family member with a mental illness. Thank you for what you said. 40 years ago she would have been locked up and would surely not be alive today because of her suicidal thoughts (which go away when she is on meds).

She is also gullible enough to fall for a cult like Scientology and hero worship someone like Tom Cruise. So yes, I do think he is dangerous.

[Carni]

79. Agree to a point/ but I had post partum depression and it was horrid

I didn't seek help and granted I did manage to get through the deal without injuring myself or anyone else...but it wasn't pleasant and in hindsight I think I should have sought medical help.

I wasted several months of my life in a total fog.

I also think Tom Cruise is a complete irresponsible idiot that should stick to bad acting.

[mondo joe]

18. All he is is fluff. "You don't know what I know" is his entire evidence.

And he's right up there with Creationists.

[rodeodance]

24. I would love to enter into a good conversation with him about the history

of psychiatry and psychology, the HOW ritilan went to market, how it is being used today, etc etc.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

35. Yes, that's right...talk to Tom and NOT TO MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS?

So, you think that Tom Cruise REALLY has a grasp on the history of psychiatry...more than say a PROFESSOR OF PSYCHIATRY with 22+ years of training and experience?

I just don't get it.

JB

[K-W]

37. I'd like to talk to him about space alien souls.

And about how much it costs to be saved by scientology.

[mondo joe]

65. If you look to high school dropout actors in cults for your

conversation, you deserve what you get.

[elehhhhna]

52. He's preparing to play Rummy in a movie, maybe?

[bettyellen]

132. he's a moron, but unfortunately he was right about Lauer, also a moron.

i'd hope his next interviewer actually prepares a little.

[obietiger]

57. An idiot

turning into a freak

[HawkerHurricane]

3. Unlike Tom Cruise, I know the history of Scientology...

Thier anti-psychiatry campaign comes from L. Ron Hubbard being denounced as a quack by psychiatrists for his book 'Dianetics' back in the 1950's.

Shortly after the Dianetics Foundation went bankrupt in the 1950's, L. Ron was talking to fellow Science Fiction writer Robert A. Hienlien, who told him (Publicly! There are witnesses!) "If you want to make real money, found a religion."

The rest is history.

[rodeodance]

5. I hope this starts a critical discussion of Ritilin in the public schools,

now its use in adults, the history of these drugs--and psychiatry. It is long overdue.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. Thise critical discussions have been going on for years.

[RandomKoolzip]

43. What does that have to do with Hawker Hurricane's comment?

Scientologists are fucking nuts themselves. They believe in aliens and the great god Zenu. IT'S A FUCKING CULT, just like Manson's Family, except better funded and prettier.

[wakeme2008]

6. the difference was Robert A. Hienlien could write and

Ron could not just IMHO.....

[Mythsaje]

108. You are SO right...n/t

[coloradodem2005]

7. Wow!!!!

Did not know that.

[K-W]

15. Site with great info on scientology

http://www.xenu.net/

[linazelle]

4. Drugs are prescribed excessively and they are harmful to many..

nothing wrong with Tom Cruise speaking out against them--whatever his beliefs.

[mondo joe]

10. Cruise did not speak out against EXCESS but against medicine and psych-

iattry overall.

Do you think schozophrenia is cured with vitamins?

[rodeodance]

21. tease out his critical points and let Fox et all do the damning.

[mondo joe]

23. You TEASED OUT his critical points? Please cite them, specifically.

Thank you.

[rodeodance]

30. I already mentioned a few--and i am sure you can find others (beyond

the fluff). I am not advocating all alternative medicines for all cases but Western medicine is oversold in many cases--there are alternative therapies. This is one point Tom was trying to make.

[oldcoot]

62. Tom Cruise was also critical of Brooke Shields for using

anti-depressants after suffering from postpartum depression. He apparently believed that she would have a better career if she had not used these drugs. He also thought she should use vitamins instead. At the time, I thought he was being very condescending toward a woman who was supposedly a good friend. His comments also reminded me to a certain extent of those pharmacists who lecture women about the "evils" of using birth control, when they want to get their prescriptions refilled.

Are there bad psychiatrists who prescribe medicine to patients who do not need it? Yes, these psychiatrists exist. However, there also equally bad surgeons, lawyers, teachers, etc. Should we dismiss an entire profession because some individuals really suck at their jobs?

[mondo joe]

66. No, that was not one of Tom's points. Please cite where he said that,

if you still think he did.

[FourStarDemocrat]

83. He stated that on television interviews a number of times, incl. Oprah nt

[mondo joe]

89. It was? He said western medicine is fine but there are also

alternatives?

[K-W]

12. You are mistaking his insane position for your more sane position.

Tom Cruise is dellusional. He belongs to a cult that tells him what to say, everything he is saying is dogma from scientology written primarily by a science fiction writer. You discredit what I assume is a reasonable opinion by linking yours to his.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

13. WRONG. He's an actor...shouldn't be dispensing med advice.

I'm praying that someone sues the living fuck out of Cruise for his comments. Making sweeping statements that Psychiatry is a "pseudo-science" and that all psychiatric drugs are essentially poison is the height of stupidity and irresponsibility for anyone to make...let alone a high school dropout scientologist.

JB

[Carni]

81. I agree with you on this

Cruise (regardless of what I may think of him) has every right to state his opinions but he also has the responsibility (IMO) to do it responsibly...I don't feel that his rants have been at all responsible.

[Merope215]

107. That'd be nice

Seriously, it would be terrific if someone sued his ass off over that and won a couple hundred million. I've never liked him as an actor, and now he's not only crazy but dangerously so. You want to be a member of a lunatic cult, fine. But don't go dispensing medical advice based on your understanding of a hack science fiction writer's space alien invaders or whatever it is $cientology preaches these days. It's irresponsible and idiotic, and it's likely to prevent lots of people who hang on his every word from getting the help they need.

[rodeodance]

26. well said linazelle

[Cha]

59. I think she said it

well, too. And I see your points, rodeodance.

[QC]

9. Nah, Andrea just had too many space aliens in her.

It was bound to happen.

[patricia92243]

11. Think he needs to see a shrink. Sounds like he's gone off the deep end.

[mondo joe]

14. Scientologists vs Psychiatry is like the GOP vs Journalism.

No wonder they hate it.

[K-W]

38. Good comparison.

Because there certainly are problems in journalism, but the GOP isnt trying to solve them. There are of course problems with psychiatry, but Tom Cruise isnt trying to solve them, he is trying to get super powers.

[watercolors]

17. Sounds like Tom

needs a little ritilin!

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

20. Actually, his current actions appear more manic than hyperactive...LITHIUM

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Cruise is either hypomanic (which isn't necessarily a bad thing to be) or suffers from Bipolar Type I disorder. Sadly, for him...both are clearly and unequivocally caused by a "chemical embalance."

JB

[rodeodance]

22. "love' does strange things to the brain.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

25. So, does unquestioning fandom for idiot movie stars... n/t

eom

JB

[DemBones DemBones]

47. Why not Bipolar II?

Just curious. I didn't see the interview but Cruise is an idiot. Psychiatry is not an exact science but psychotrophic drugs help more people than they harm.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

49. Sure, I guess. Frankly, we've only seen manic behavior...

I would love to see what he's like if he ever comes down from these "highs." Another possibility, I guess, could be stimulant abuse.

JB

[depakid]

51. If anything he presented hypomanic, which would be BP II

or part of the "softer spectrum" of affective disorders.

Mania that's typical of BP I is much more extreme and dysfunctional. He wouldn't be able to hide or control that without mood stabilizing meds.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

55. Maybe he has special vitamin-controlled BP II...

The scientology therapies are only reducing his symptoms to BP I severity levels. :)

JB

[tavalon]

113. He always has, actually

He has ADHD.

[SaveElmer]

31. To be fair...

It was Matt Lauer that brought up the topic. Cruise is entitled to whatever whacky views he wants. The only thing that concerns me is whether his movies are any good. Most of them are...as to the rest...it's just noise!!!

[rodeodance]

34. and i do think Matt L. should do a little reseach before he talks to Tom c

again.

[Orangepeel]

78. not to defend Lauer (who is also an idiot) but Tom made it into a story

if he hadn't started the whole thing by saying that Brooke Shields was irresponsible for saying that drugs helped her post partum depression, nobody would be asking Tom Cruise about it.

[roguevalley]

103. Tom Cruise suffers from rich boy, look-at-me, never told to shut the

fuck up disease. He had an interview in Australia where during a question he didn't like, he jumped on the interviewer. Told him 'put your manners on'. If he doesn't like a question, he attacks the interviewer. He's a dumb fuck who has never had to be real because he controls his life with an iron fist- even auditioning a 'new wife'- and as such, he's delusional about himself and his place in the world.

War of the Worlds is slated to be the biggest clunker in the history of films. That could explain his actions.

[ElectroPrincess]

33. He's a gutless wonder Re: Patriotic issues - when his opinion truly counts

I remember that The Right Wing lauded Tom Cruise because he made statements to the effect that it was not "his place" to be part of the discussion on whether or not to INVADE Iraq.

That tells me all I need to know about the character of the man.

As a person who specialized in the field of physiological psychology, I can state with certainty that psychotropic medication, when properly prescribed and monitored SAVES LIVES.

There ARE children who benefit from Ritalin but yes, ADD and ADHD are over-diagnosed.

Answer: We need more thoughtful people (and more funding) within our mental health system.

Yes, always try to work your problem through with family and counseling, however, don't hesitate to seek skilled help (Psychiatrist) if all behavioral therapies have been exhausted without a positive outcome.

Tom Cruise has got a zap on his head. I don't value his opinion.

[K-W]

39. Are you sure the answer isnt making Tom Curse Surgeon General? nt

[ElectroPrincess]

41. LOL ... no, but he was different than I recall in the past

He's got a bee in his bonnet over something and it's ain't love. But gee, now I'm not following my own advice to not give a damn.

You caught me. Bummer. :(

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

36. Actually Andrea Yates husband had them in a crack pot religion

that was probably far more the source of her problems than post partum depression was. I think it's far more likely her depression was due to the severe amount of repression she was subjected to.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

40. Yates suffers from a longstanding psychotic disorder...

Her difficulties with post-partum depression only compounded a pre-existing condition. She was being well maintained on medications until her prescribing psychiatrist TOOK HER OFF HER MED and switched to another WITH NO MEANINGFUL FOLLOW-UP. If you need proof that psychiatric medications work, please take a look at Yates' arrest photo and photos of her following medical treatment during her incarceration. Night and day.

Her hyper-religiosity is not an uncommon symptom in psychotic disorders, bipolar disease, and medial temporal lobe epilepsy. She probably was always given to "magical thinking," so your point about her husband's religious effort probably didn't help but were not the root cause.

JB

[merh]

42. There are those who require medication to survive in society.

But the insane push to medicate every hyper child or every child that doesn't fit in with the others or every child with attention problems has gotten out of hand.

The way they decide which child needs to be medicated today makes one wonder if the likes of some of the greatest minds would have been medicated when they were young. To be bored with the goings on in the class room and to act out is not necessarily a problem that requires medication.

IMHO, our society suggests medication too quickly for every illness, including depression and panic attacks or that feeling of not belonging. We have lost the balance. :shrug:

[Carni]

82. Very good points

I feel the same way.

I don't like the way meds are forced at young kids.

The long term effects of these various meds on kids doesn't seem to be known and I take great issue with it because I think there is a lot of very subjective diagnosis going on.

[merh]

85. We are an instant gratification society.

People lack the patience to deal with each other, let alone "unruly" or "hyper" kids. So of course, the quick fix it to medicate them. It happened to my nephew when he was a teen, going through the rebellious teen years. His mother put him in a mental health facility and then they put him on some meds for obsessive/compulsive behavior (??), meds that were not needed. He got off the meds as an adult, but he looks for quick fixes to his emotional problems now, alcohol being his substitute.

Whatever happened to accepting that nobody is perfect, that you will have good days and bad days, that happiness is not a constant state of existence, but a good state to work toward.

The movie "Rebel Without a Cause" could not be made today. The James Dean character would have been sedated before he was age 9. :shrug:

[Carni]

96. I can't say that I disagree

I don't know enough about mental illness to be an authority but it bothers the hell out of me that so many kids are labeled as ADD, ADHD and Bi-polar, manic and whatever else. I was a totally unbalanced rabble rouser as a teen but quite frankly I think that was (and still is) a part of my personality.

Hell most of the people at DU are considered "mentally ill" by the Republicans.

[SammyWinstonJack]

60. This is what being filthy rich and having celebrity status gets you.

The ability to push your bullshit spiel from the "public' airwaves, onto the unspecting masses, who mostly agree. I think the guy is an idiot right up there with John Travolta who gives his daughter a million dollars on her birthday for every year she's alive up until the age of 11. Does this asshole really need much less deserve a tax cut? I am sick of these self serving self, absorbed and self righteous rich pricks!

[DeaconBlues]

61. Many top-notch psychiatrists and psychologists also have serious issues

with the medication of the "mentally ill." For example, Thomas Szasz asserted that the problem with mental illness doesn't lie with the person who is supposedly afflicted, but with a society that can't accept people who are so radically different in their perspectives and behaviors.

http://www.bigeye.com/szasz.htm

You are probably right that Cruise is an idiot who is taking up the anti-psychiatric crusade for the greater good of Scientology and not people who need help. But this issue is a greatly complicated one, and neither side should be shut out.

[depakid]

63. Szasz is quack of the first order

and has several suicides under his belt to show for his little crusade.

[DeaconBlues]

70. Could you give me some context to your accusations?

It seems to me that any psychiatrist who is involved with unstable patients will have "several suicides under their belts." Its the nature of the profession to have patients who take their lives.

[depakid]

86. Here's what the wiki says for starters

"Szasz is often said to be allied with the anti-psychiatry movement of the 1960s and 1970s. He disavows the connection, though, since he is not opposed to the practice of psychiatry if it is non-coercive. He maintains that psychiatry should be a contractual service between consenting adults with no state involvement, and he favors the abolition of mental hospitals and the repudiation of force. According to Szasz, involuntary mental hospitalization is a crime against humanity which, if unopposed, will expand into "pharmacratic" dictatorship.

So, from his point of view, people who at risk of harming themselves should not be hospitalized.

Szasz has written extensively about suicide from several angles, though the salient ones for this discussion can be found in his book Fatal Freedom.

Basically, he contends that depression isn't a cause per se of suicide- and that the decision to "enact suicide," as well as other forms of self-chosen death (i.e. assisted suicide), should in no way involve the psychiatric or medical communities, or by extension, the State--that self-chosen death should be neither blocked nor aided by any of these institutions.

Several people who have been active in the bipolar community who ended up committing suicide- ater actively resisting inpatient (or pharmcological) treatment have left writings or told others in their lives that they were influenced by Szasz's views- hence my comments about having several suicides under his belt.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

64. Thomas Szasz! Man, drag out the hippie psychiatrists/theorists will ya...

Might as well add R.D. Laing, Rollo May, and just about any other prominent mid-60s to early 70s psychotherapist into the discussion. Unfortunately (and understandably), these theorists were reacting to the emergence of psychotropics for the control of mental disorders and problem behaviors during the great transition of patients from institutional settings to the community. The large majority of these counter-culture theorists were reacting to situations not necessarily applicable to today's problems. For instance, many of their anti-medication/anti-labelling theories were fine for a culture that willingly would reimburse or pay for YEARS OF PSYCHOTHERAPY, which is clearly not the case today. Sad, but true. Until our society (and insurance companies) is willing to return to a combination of medication and psychotherapy (duration for as long as it takes), we are stuck with effective short-term, but largely temporary solutions.

Now, I wonder if Tom "the great psychiatry historian" Cruise would like to add to this discussion. :)

JB

[DeaconBlues]

72. All great points that would probably make Top Gun's head explode

if he tried to understand. For some reason we can't get to a happy medium in this country, where we understand that psychiatric problems are generated by a combination of physiological and social factors. Medication in isolation is not the answer, though it seems that it is the option of choice for many psychiatrists today. And therapy in isolation is probably not the answer for many disorders, despite the leanings of anti-establishment hippies like Szasz and myself.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

75. Reciprocal determinism...we all live by it.

As you suggest, all behavior can be thought of as an interplay of environmental factors and biology. They are entertwined. Though at some threshold point, it appears that environmental factors on behavior cannot completely reverse innate/genetically-determined biological changes causing behavioral problems or biological changes as a result of consistent or severe environmental impacts (e.g., PTSD). It is at this juncture where psychiatric medications appear to be of the greatest benefit. In part, to push the biological changes closer to a threshold where the environment (therapy) can have a positive impact (e.g., combined meds and cognitive-behavior therapy for depression) or to increase levels of biological factors irreversibly changed and resistant to environmental impact (e.g., disorganized schizophrenia).

Regards,
JB

[depakid]

87. Bandura!

Nice- and of course I agree with what you have stated above.

The point is usually made emphatically among peers groups and professionals that interventions for depression and/or bipolar disorder need to include a talk therapy component (like CBT) alongside taking the appropiate medication.

Unfortunately, getting this kind of care these days is difficult- even for people who may have insurance.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

91. You got that right. CBT is reimbursed for about 2 mos.

Insurance parity efforts for psychiatric treatments have gone by the wayside over the last few years. As the economy worsens, unfortunately the downward pressure is most acutely felt by those farther down the mental health professional pecking order.

I have limited my clinical work to one day a week and prefer to cover my effort by funded research. It's sad that I have had to resort to this, but when Medicaid/Medicare are only reimbursing about 60% of my total costs (and after waiting months) it's not feasible for me to support my family by doing clinical work alone.

JB

[depakid]

93. The old arguments about overutilization

and "moral hazard" may have once had merit (as in- 25 years ago) but they aren't persuasive today- though they're still trotted out in any discussion of mental health parity.

One day a week! Wow- now that's depressing- and I imagine that one can see the collective effects of this in the loss of mental health care capacity, particularly in more rural areas.

Hard to believe that CBT is only reimbursed or two months. I had always heard the average number of sessions around 16.

I don't see how patients can be expected to gain the the appropropriate coping skills, problem solving abilities, and self-efficacy in that short a period of time.

[tavalon]

116. And after what I read from you above

that is painfully sad.

I'm not rich and yet I know that most people just can't make this work but I ended up paying for most of my five or so years of therapy myself. I probably spent tens of thousands of dollars on it and it was/is worth millions. I saved my life with the help of those two therapists.

I am happy, healthy and fully functional (though not perfect. Who is?) and have been for a number of years. That said, to bring this discussion back to the medication issue, I take an antidepressant pill every day and will do so for the rest of my natural born life. Without it, my brain will go back to its set point and that set point is low, low, low. All the talk therapy in the world will not change that.

I think the myriad psychotropic medicines are simultaneously over used and under used. I think discussions like this one should be happening far more often than they currently are. I think Tom Cruise is a bit misguided and a little too hyper at this juncture of his life but if it gets the discussions going, so be it. Unfortunately, the media is incapable of examining the issues with any depth and as per usual, goes for the exploitation, shock angle. No surprise there, I'm afraid.

[tavalon]

115. Oh, man,

lingo and acronyms are a funny thing! That is all I have to say about that because I want this thread to remain open. :)

[tavalon]

114. And this is why I stayed with this stupid thread for this long

I was waiting for the intelligent commentary to come out. Thank you. There have been a few comments before yours that also had some insightfulness but this is graduate level.

I need to pass this on to my friend who is whip smart, has bipolar 1 and keeps refusing medication. I keep expecting to hear from her family that she has committed suicide. I have talked with her until I'm blue in the face and have gotten nowhere.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

133. The problem is that bipolar "highs" are VERY REWARDING.

The medication compliance issue in bipolar disorders can be thought of from an operant conditioning standpoint. When the patient is in a depressed phase, the medication can be thought of as a negative reinforcement component (e.g., removal of negative baseline). When the patient is in a manic phase, the medication is more like a punisher because it removes that the patient perceives to be a positive baseline. This yo-yo problem with bipolar disorders is well known and (unfortunately) pervasive.

JB

[tavalon]

145. I know, I know

Unfortunately, one of my partners also has bipolar 1 and the way we all found out (herself included) was when she slammed right past euphoric into a psychotic like behavior. We had to get her involuntarily committed because she wasn't already plugged into the system (none of us, including her, had any inkling that she had bipolar). It frightened her and us very badly and now, she is very committed to taking her medication and gets nervous when she gets a little hypomanic.

I thank my lucky stars that she doesn't have the tendency you describe. I hate that my Canadian friend does. She's the one who will likely die and she is such a wonderful and creative person. They both are.

[spooky3]

125. Good points. Also, why are all mental disorders lumped into

one huge category by these critics? We don't treat physical disorders that way, nor do we we group all people together to say "this works" or "this is harmful".

For person X with diabetes, diet alone might control the problem. For person Y, weight loss may be needed along with diet change. For person Z, insulin injunctions must be taken. For people with a completely different disorder (e.g., an allergic reaction to a bee sting), obviously a completely different intervention is appropriate. With any of them, the wrong treatment not only will not solve the problem, it could be harmful.

These statements are so obvious they seem ridiculous, but with commentary on psychiatric problems and solutions, all too often these most basic distinctions are not made.

[K-W]

67. Tom Cruise isnt representing a side.

He is representing a for-profit-cult.

[DeaconBlues]

69. as the tired old cliche goes...

sometimes even a blind pig finds an acorn. Perhaps Cruise doesn't have the facts or the right motivations, but he is representing a valid interpretation of the psychiatric wars (that perhaps we use medications to mask problems instead of authentically confronting them).

[K-W]

90. no he is not representing a valid interpretation

he is not presenting a rational evidence based opinion, it is a matter of faith for him, he is distracting attention from people who have reasonable arguments and discrediting them and associating them with his cult religion

[tavalon]

117. Therein is the key

Pushing a pill without also utilizing talk therapy and behavioral assistance is abusive and dangerous.

Ignoring the chemistry of the brain in favor of pill hatred is abusive and dangerous.

Simple summary of a much more complex issue, but hey, it's two in the morning. ;)

[ElectroPrincess]

68. You make a good point DeaconBlues ...

Now before we discuss any more Brave New Worlds, it's time to take our Soma.

You're correct, this is a complicated issue. I believe that it takes a team effort (family, patient, mental health providers) to accurately assess and effectively treat mental illness.

I despise the commercial that says "you don't have to live with depression" as if taking Paxil will *cure* you. The unfortunate truth is that many behavioral and emotional problems wax and wane throughout one's lifetime.

The only true cure is the individual (and close family members) keeping track of their thoughts, feelings and also knowing who to get in contact with should they need help.

To say Andrea Yate's hubby didn't have A CLUE is a profound understatement. ;)

[DemBones DemBones]

73. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that

Andrea Yates's husband DIDN"T GIVE A SHIT?

:shrug:

He was all wrapped up in his own beliefs and loving their superiority, I think, much like Tom Cruise seems to be.

I did see clips of Cruise when he was squirted in the face with water and thought he overreacted to what was intended to be humorous. Practical jokes are dumb but suing the joker for assault?

:eyes:

[DeaconBlues]

74. I hate to start a love fest, but you too are right on

In an ideal world, we would use a combination of therapeutic and social treatments for mental disorders with, yes, medications if they were absolutely necessary. It would also be nice to live in a society where idiosyncrasies that are not harmful to the self are others are tolerated, instead of being looked upon as diseases that need to be done away with.

[tavalon]

118. Now,

that's a point of view I can line up behind.

[roguevalley]

104. deleted because. :-D

[julialnyc]

92. Simply

I don't think advise based out of a cult like group against psychiatry is coming from the right place.
There is the good and the bad in every profession.

There are people how really need help for a chemical imbalance and people who are over prescribed.

To each their own (but I don't think Tom Cruise should tell a women with post partem depression that she is wrong based on a religion)

[Roxy66]

97. Thank you for saying something sane about the whole Cruise thing n/t

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

99. No problem. Here's a copy of the letter I wrote to the Today Show.

Today's interview with Tom Cruise regarding the merits of psychiatry or psychiatric practice was completely irresponsible. As someone who actually knows about the history of mental health movements, psychiatric/psychological practice, and the administration of medications and therapies, I can without reservation say that Mr. Cruise is either sorely misinformed and/or biased in his opinion by standard "anti-psychiatry" talk promulgated by his scientology religion.

Hundreds of thousands of viewers this morning heard Mr. Cruise state that Ritalin is an anti-psychotic drug, which is not the case. They heard him state that people with serious mental health issues can just get over things with vitamins, which is not the case. And, they heard Mr. Cruise state that mental illnesses are not the result of "chemical imbalances," which is completely and utterly false and flies in the face of over 80 years of research in the brain and functioning of neurotransmitters.

Unfortunately, I fear that many viewers of Today will take Mr. Cruise's misinformation campaign on mental illness and standard medical treatments as gospel and will fail to seek the treatment they need. It would be completely irresponsible for Today to run Mr. Cruise's interview without providing a factual counterpoint to his disinformation...something I hope your programming directors will consider providing very soon. If a Today show viewer were to commit suicide or kill someone else because they heard Tom Cruise say on the Today Show that medications are bad, could the Today Show or NBC be held partially liable for that person's actions?

In closing, I would like to pose a question (and possibly a good counterpoint example) for future Today topics on mental health issues and standard medical treatments for those issues. Does Mr. Cruise think that Andrea Yates, who tragically killed her children while off her psychiatric medication, does not suffer from a chemical imbalance? Does he think that her children may still be alive if only she took a few vitamins and received counseling by a scientologist?

Respectfully,

[tavalon]

119. Fabulous letter!

Maybe they could interview you as part of the counterbalance.

He really said Ritalin was an antipsychotic? Boy, that's misinformed. Big time. Now, if he had said it was an amphetamine, at least he would be in the ballpark (and he still would have been able to achieve his fear mongering objective). He didn't even make it onto the same planet with that one.

on edit: needed to divorce fear from mongering.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

131. My hope was to appeal to NBC's fear of potential lawsuits...

In the grand scheme of things, I fear that NBC corporate doesn't give a rat's ass about the consequences of Cruise's remarks. In fact, they're rating are probably experiencing a positive jump as a function of the negative publicity. So, raising the spectre of possible liabity issues may be the only way to get their attention and to correct the problem.

As an addendum to this, on Saturday the weekend Today Show ran a segment as a response to Cruise's remarks...but unfortunately, they had two anti-psychiatry folks and MARIE OSMOND as the pro-psychiatry side!! Hardly an adequate response and in many ways only compounded the problem.

I would encourage others to write in to the Today Show and DEMAND that they run a WEEK-LONG series on the SCIENCE OF PSYCHIATRY w/ ACTUAL PRACTICING PSYCHIATRISTS.

JB

[spooky3]

126. excellent letter--and I'd be tempted to add...

a prominent psychologist should be brought on to critique Tom Cruise's acting! :-)

By the way, my own layman's diagnosis of Cruise (to add to the delusional disorder that others have identified) is histrionic personality disorder.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

135. More accurate to say that he has Cluster B personality disorder charact.

I don't see him fitting histronic personality disorder features completely and exclusively. However, he does appear to have some histronic behavior, narcissism, and (maybe) even some sociopathy, all of which, are commonly clustered together in the DSM-IV personality disorder diagnoses. Also, we can't really say that his personality disorder features have led to problemmatic levels of personal and/or familial distress and dysfunction...at least until this past week. So, going with personality disorder features is a safer diagnostic bet right now.

JB

[Neshanic]

100. When Tom has a baby, then maybe, MAYBE I will take his advice

Until that day when he walks down San Vicente with a stroller holding the young un' that popped from between his legs, and shows no remorse for taking the drugs that help a woman's pain giving birth then and only then will I consider listening to a shit house rat like him.

[madeline_con]

105. "BTW - WHY THE FUCK ARE WE LISTENING ...

TO MEDICAL ADVICE FROM SOMEONE WHO BELIEVES THAT HIS SOUL WAS BORN FROM AN E.T. NAMED "XENO"?

I, for one, am not. :)

[Mythsaje]

109. AND YET

people were incensed that the government wants to get into the juvenile psych evaluation and treatment business.

Let's see...what are the safe drugs?

Not IB or Tylenol. Bad for the liver. Or is it kidney? Or is it both? Well, they now say ibuprofen might be dangerous for your heart. Huh.

Nice catch, FDA.

We all know about Vioxx.

How many of us know about the effect anti-depressants are having on some teenagers? "May cause a marked increase in suicidal thoughts."

Oh, isn't THAT lovely?

There's no doubt that drugs help people, but, as an add on AAR in the Seattle market says, No one gets a headache because their body doesn't have enough acetamenophin. When we have indigestion, it's not because of a Nexus deficiency.

The add's for a homeopathic/naturopathic doctor.

Regardless, I'll reserve judgment on whether all this drug pushing ("Don't do drugs, but take THESE) is good or bad for individuals or society as a whole.

[tavalon]

120. Uh, oh

They aren't going to take ibuprofen off the market, are they? I think I'd better hit Costco this weekend.

Come to think of it, where is Costco in Seattle. I just realized that I know there is one (or more) but I don't know where. Hmm, the things that occur to me in the middle of the night.

[Mythsaje]

127. I don't know where one is

in Seattle... I'd assume there'd be some on the N. End. I KNOW there's one in Federal Way and one in Tacoma.

[Curtis]

111. Didn't Andrea Yates

suffer from post partum depression? I may be wrong on that, but if that is what she was suffering from, normal prescribed anti-psychotics won't really help but only mask (which is what Tom was saying). This type of depression is actually a hormonal one and the standards drugs do nothing to help that problem.

[Modem Butterfly]

121. Drugs only mask what you're feeling

Oh, sure they make you feel better, and sure, you may even THINK you're getting better, but it's all fake. You only THINK you can get through the day without wanting to say, lie motionless on the bathroom floor in the dark, and it only SEEMS like you can function without being compelled to hurt yourself. Psychoactive meds only MASK your symptoms, the way insulin masks the symptoms of Type 1 diabetes, or anti-inflammatories mask the pain of arthritis. It's all fake. :sarcasm:

Untreated mental illness kills people. But then, so does $cientology.

http://www.lisamcpherson.org

[mondo joe]

128. Are you Bill Frist?

Amazing! You can diagnose the patiennt without ever even meeting her!

[Curtis]

134. Instead of the both of you being so sarcastic and confrontational

Please read what I actually said again. I was OBVIOUSLY asking a question and said it is possible I was wrong on what I thought.

Oh, and forget the fact that I've been through the ringer on medications and forget my own personal history and forget my wife is bipolar and is going through hell with medications right now, and if you didn't know, perhaps you should have been a little less quick to shoot from the hip and criticize me so quickly. :eyes:

[mondo joe]

146. My expectations are not lesser because you've had bad experiences.

Your personal experience does not address Andrea Yates, not the whole of healthcare or pharmaceuticals.

Frist also shot his mouth off without knowing what he was talking about.

[Curtis]

150. Wow. Such hostility

You obviously have you mind set on "setting" me straight or some other issue.

If you would simply READ (do you know how to do that?) my post, I SAID plain and simple "I may be wrong on that" in the first place. Instead of being such an ass about it, perhaps you could have simply corrected me and went on.

Oh, by the way. I guess I forgot to add the fact that my sister is a nurse and works in this field. So, since it appears Andre Yates suffered from more than I thought she did (thanks to those who took the time to set me straight and be polite about it) then you are right (still no reason for you to be an ass).

However, my point still stands that it is more successful to treat normal post partum with hormones and in THOSE cases anti-depressants do nothing but mask the problem.

[mondo joe]

152. "Anti depressants" do not simply mask problems.

They don't. They can be an importannt part of treatment, and they can be crucial in helping people begin to make improvemments in their lives by alleviating crippling depression.

Would you deny someone pain meds post surgery because they simply mask the pain?

[Curtis]

153. Understand this please

The way meds are used in SOME cases does nothing but MASK the problems. When someone walks into a doc office and says I've been feeling a little depressed lately, most docs now-a-days will quickly pull out the old perscript pad and dole out the latest anti-depressant. They do this without even wondering what may cause the symptom in the first place and do not try to treat the real problem. In these circumstances, they do nothing but mask the problem.

As for pain meds, denying someone who's had surgery pain meds is stupid. But, there are instances when pain meds should not be doled out. Do you honestly think Rush Limbaugh needed the pain meds he was taking or did they simply mask his real problem (addiction)?

[mondo joe]

154. So there are abuses? Wow!

Are there abuses? Of course.

Now tell me this, you write "When someone walks into a doc office and says I've been feeling a little depressed lately, most docs now-a-days will quickly pull out the old perscript pad and dole out the latest anti-depressant. They do this without even wondering what may cause the symptom in the first place and do not try to treat the real problem."

Most docs do that? Source please.

[Curtis]

158. Wow. I made an error

Yes, it is a rookier error and I should know better since I am working on my MA. SOrry, I didn't know I had to have a lawyer in my pocket to talk about something on the internet

Anyway, no not MOST, but MANY doctors do tend to over-prescribe various meds.

And before you read the links of course, let me try to cover all bases. Of course, I may miss something because I do not have a lawyer handy to reply to your exacting standards.

Some of these links discuss different drugs (not just anti-depressants), foreign countries, one even makes the claim anti-depressants are both OVER and UNDER perscribed and may not stick specifically to the discussion at hand. However, they do aid in representing an overall trend that doctors do tend to over-prescribe various medications instead of actually trying to find and fix the problem. And, yes. Some articles may even claim MOST doctors over-perscribe (good enough for you?)

This first links to an org that did a study that showed drugs were being over prescribed:
http://www.ncahf.org/
as explained here:
http://www.journalism.indiana.edu/gallery/j201fall03/DowntownBloomington/MehrlichHolistic/index3.html

more and different ones

http://www.paulburstow.libdems.org.uk/news/325.html
http://www.newstarget.com/z001298.html
http://www.copernicusmarketing.com/about/mzine/monthlyeds/nov04.html
http://www.mercola.com/2004/jul/28/over_prescribe.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12795779&dopt=Abstract
http://www.goacom.com/overseas-digest/Social%20issues/society05.html
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Demystifying_Depression:The_Controversy_about_Antidepressants
http://todaysseniorsnetwork.com/power_of_ads.htm


Well, that should just about show where I get my information

[mondo joe]

159. An improved argument. Thank you.

And you needn't have an attorney. Just exppect to get called on inaccuracies.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

136. Longstanding psychotic disorder compounded by post-partum depression

It's clear from the medical history revealed during Yates' trial that she had longstanding psychiatric issues (e.g., prior psychotic breaks) and the post-partum depression pushed her over the edge.

Psychosis and depression are generally a lethal combination.

JB

[Curtis]

137. Aaahhhh

Okay. I didn't know that. When my younger sister had her first kid, she was treated with JUST anti-depressants. They did nothing for her except mask the symptoms. However, when she had her second kid, she was treated with hormones and then slowly taken off them much like my older sister was treated. They both sing the praises of hormones to treat past partum over anti-depressants. The difference with this case being they didn't have long on going depression. I didn't know that about Yates and that is why I asked.

BTW-Thanks. It's good to see someone can still be courteous and answer a simple inquiry.

[Bridget Burke]

149. No, she suffered from postpartum psychosis.

She had suffered from it previously--after the birth of the previous child. Her husband should not have gotten her pregnant again. But she had problems at other times, as well.

Those suffering form "simple" postpartum depression probably will not kill. But drugs might help them get "over the hump"; there is no need for them to suffer & they have responsibilities.

Any mental problems--mild or severe, temporary or long-lasting--benefit from a variety of treatments. Simple non-medical things, like help with the children or a vacation, can be useful. Counseling--from conversation with someone who cares to full-blown psychoanalysis. Attention to diet & exercise are good. Drugs can play a part--which drug (or drugs) & for how long? (Note: Hormones are drugs.) Let's hope the patient has a support system & a medical plan that will pay for more than someone who writes prescriptions.

[Curtis]

151. Thank you to you too for taking the time

to be polite and setting me straight. It's much nicer than being confrontational ;)

[Skypilot 18]

123. Where did Tom cruise?

Where did Tom Cruise? Did he take Vicky's Car and drive down the Patty Lane and stop at the Audry Meadows?

inquiring minds don't give a flying f---k

That said, I have never spent one penny on anything movie that Tom Cruise has acted in.(that's a lie. I went to see "The Rainman",but only because Dustin Hoffman was in it) I just don't care for his acting. I was a better actor in 4th grade than that guy is now.

I've never met the guy and can't make a judgment either positive or negative about him personally. He just is selling something I have no intention of buying. (like his acting skills which reminds me of John Agar, man of one face and one of the worst actors of all time.)

where did Tom Cruise? (ah who cares?)

[Doomy]

124. Cruise

has a Napoleon complex. Because he is so short he walks around with a big opinionated mouth to make up for lack of size. I bet he is short in the pants too.

[sleipnir]

138. The Daily Tom Cruise thread/Scientology Bash!

YEAH!
:bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:


For the record, I'm strongly against Scientology, but it's becoming a recurrent topic on the board, each day there's a new thread.

[Blue Gardener]

140. Isn't he also against psychiatric Counseling?

Forget the drug angle. As I understand it, he is also against counseling, even when no drugs are prescribed. Counseling can be very beneficial to some people.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

141. Unless it is counseling done by scientologist...

Scientologist ashew any and all forms of modern psychiatric practice, but have made psychiatric medication their primary target. This movement against psychiatry is deepseated and motivated by hatred of the profession by their mediocre science-fiction writer leader, L. Ron Hubbard.

JB

[oldcoot]

142. They have also gone after counseling

According to this article, Kelly Preston has lobbied the state of Florida for a bill that restricts mental health services for children. See http://www.sptimes.com/2005/04/13/State/Actor_lobbies_against.shtml for more information. Notice the political affiliation of both bill's sponsors. Aren't you glad that Republicans ignore those Hollywood types?

[Blue Gardener]

144. So typical of the repugs

Want to have it both ways. I am quickly losing any respect I had for the Scientolgy cultists. I used to like John Travolta and Kelly Preston, but I was unaware they were lobbying against pyschiatry in Florida. Thanks for the link.

[liberal hypnotist]

148. Most Brain Science Is Theory

Scientology is an interesting business. It seems most followers like Cruise have early development issues.

L. Ron got his start issuing free Dianetics copies to prisons across the country. He has a great imagination. The problem is: it got out of control when people bought into it so strongly.

Now, emotions and biology are closely related. There are are growing group of researchers that would concur with Lil Tommy Cruise. The emotions create the physical result. In my business,hypnosis, I believe "we create our own reality". We most times think ourselves into illness.

What is interesting is to watch the amount of publicity Tom gets for acting a bit out there. Being from the 60's generation, being out there always seemed normal.