What is Scientology?

[julialnyc]

Don't worry, this is not Tom Cruise related, but with all of this talk I am really curious as to what Scientology is all about. Anyone know?

[Walt Starr]

1. Best link to find out the truth about Scientology

Operation Clambake

[Jon_da_brockman]

4. You you want a less... biased site

here is Wikipedias page on Scientolgy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology

[ET Awful]

6. You mean if you want a site that can be edited by anyone at any time

go to a wiki site and take it with a huge grain of salt.

If you want to see Scientology's own documents reveal the hoax and lie that they perpetrate, go elsewhere. Operation Clambake is an excellent source for FACTUAL information.

Sorry, but any source that doesn't reveal the numerous deaths associated with Scientology and doesn't reveal the ludicrous claims regarding Xenu, Tegeeack, etc., isn't providing enough information.

[Jon_da_brockman]

11. I have always found

Wikipedia to be pretty accurate.

That being said, I think scientology is a joke.

[ET Awful]

14. In many cases, I'd agree with you on Wikipedia, but being that

the article pertains to a group known for fraud (and for using the internet to perpetratd fraud), and being that there is a LOT of information not presented on the Wikipedia entry, I'd say it has been creatively edited to eliminate much of the critical information.

[Walt Starr]

29. Wikipedia can be fairly accurate on a broad range of subjects

Scientology is ot one of them because the entries can be edited and Scientology has engaged in a war of disinformation and litigation on the internet since the internet began. Look into what went on with alt.religion.scientology on Usenet to find out more.

These people are evil. They are every bit as bad, and probably worse, than the Moonies.

[K-W]

47. Wilkipedia often fails on controversial issues. EOM

[Fight_n_back]

68. reading the wikipedia article

I find it hard to believe that anyone would think it pro scientology. It puts a lot out there, for sure.

[K-W]

48. The truth isnt biased.

I would hope people on this site would know better than to try to use the word bias to discredit factually legitimate material.

[ThomWV]

2. Another Religion I Think

And as such no better and no worse than any other. Its all bullshit you know.

[K-W]

49. It is a matter of degree.

Catholicism asks you to come to church every week.

Scientology asks you to partake in rigourous 'education' to achieve levels by demonostrating your ability to internalize the belief system.

Catholocism asks you to give what you can afford, and pressures you to donate.

Scientology has to be purchased. The materials and classes needed to reach the levels are expensive. It costs hundreds of thousands of dollars just to get into the upper levels.

Catholicism is based on the faith in beliefs passed down in families that originated in pre-rational cultures.

Scientology was purposefully designed by a science fiction writer.

Its like arguing that David Koresh was no better or worse than any other religions leader.

[julialnyc]

60. Great description

I don't agree with many religious concepts, but having faith for sale is an argument with no grey area.

[seriousstan]

3. A cult

[babsbunny]

5. That would explain Tom Cruise

:puke:

[evermind]

7. Roughly, it's like a psychological pyramid scheme

Here's how it started. Hubbard wrote a book, "Dianetics - the modern science of mental health", which put forward roughly the following picture: throughout our lives we experience traumas, which lock up energy in our brains in the form of "engrams", and cause incorrect mental processing to take place. Additionally, the engrams are all linked to each other, since we experience new traumas in terms of previous traumas. If we bring our engrams into consciousness, we can "clear" them. They can be detected, during a process of "auditing" - that is talking about past upsetting events, by monitoring stress-levels on an instrument known as an e-meter, somewhat like a lie detector.

"Dianetics" was popular, and spawned a grass-roots movement, with small "auditing" groups springing up in various places and no-one in clear control of it. However after a a few years, a crisis loomed: according to Hubbard's book, one ought to be able to trace back all engrams to the one created by one's first traumatic experience, called the "basic-basic". When this engram was released, Hubbard predicted, the subject would become "clear" - having many desirable mental qualities such as perfect recall and speeded up mental processing. In auditing sessions, people had gone as far back as re-experiencing their birth-trauma, and even traumas of the "sperm-dream" variety, without any evidence of becoming clear.

The pressure was very much on Hubbard to explain this, and produce a bona fide clear. Hubbard did a lecture tour with a claimed clear, but when one of the audience asked "what colour is Mr Hubbard's tie?", and the reputed clear exhibited less than perfect recall in the matter, his credibility was in tatters.

Meanwhile, in the small auditing groups, people were now starting to experience traumas from previous lives....

Following after this, Hubbard announced Scientology - a further development of Dianetics, which contained new doctrines, such as re-incarnation (cast in sci-fi terms as the successive inhabiting of human bodies by alien spiritual sparks known as "Thetans") which helped those of the Dianetics movement which climbed aboard Scientology to rationalise away the receding horizon of Clearness.

After this point, the movement underwent a doctrinal explosion as Hubbard created a rigid organisational framework, imposed a hierarchical structure, and extended the concept of auditing in line with the new points of belief that he was revealing by the truckload. This was very much a method for him to assert control over what had been the Dianetics movement by centralising doctrine and controling access to membership and "orthodoxy".

The end result is a mish-mosh of psycho-spiritual practices and beliefs organised into a sort of pyramid scheme. The new member undertakes to buy "auditing" courses of senior members, which gives him access to higher "grades". Once he has reached those grades, he can give courses to his junior members, and receive payment which he uses to pursue higher-level auditing for himself as he gradually climbs the pyramid. The courses at the upper levels are vastly more expensive than at the lower.

The kicker is, that on joining Scientology, the new member signs a contract stipulating that anything they are paid for giving auditing courses will revert to the Church of Scientology if they ever leave the organisation. That is: they become financially beholden to the "Church" to the tune of all the expensive courses they've given to pay for their own Scientological "education". I've read that people have actually been bankrupted, and lost their houses, over this..

All that may be out of date, now, but was correct when I wrote a university essay on it 14-15 years ago.. :)

[jim3775]

8. A dangerous cult.

whyaretheydead.net

Although I am in agreement that most religion is dangerous.

[BeHereNow]

9. Agreed a cult, but please remember...

Their is a DISTINCT difference between
religiousity and spirituality.
Christians and others of various faiths are
following a path of spirituality, NOT religiousity
as in an extremist cult, which unfortunately seems
to have taken the world stage in visibility.
I live in Los Angeles and there is an abnormal
number of Scientology members here- many of them
related to the entertainment industry.
As a general observation, I have found the majority of them
to be completely self absorbed, seeking their own "success"
in financial and 'fame' pursuits.
A fairly disgusting and cruel bunch in my experience.
BHN

[smirkymonkey]

35. What is it with people in the entertainment industry and

cults anyway? Scientology, Kabbalah (not that it's naturally a cult, but there are those who have turned it into one) etc.

Is it that self-absorbed people seek "religions" that justify their self-absorption?

[Canuckistanian]

42. Scientology has always welcomed celebrities

I'm not sure if it was Hubbard's idea or later leadership that started this, but they got the idea that since celebrities are so lionized and copied, it would be a good idea to concentrate on them.
Sort of like positive PR. If everyone sees famous people gushing about their new belief system, it becomes popular (e.g. Madonna/Kabbala).
The problem is, the celebrities get *extra-special* treatment. They are promoted faster, get invited to all the high-level meetings, have to do much less work, etc., etc. They're also pretty much isolated from the rank-and-file schmucks who are being fleeced and brainwashed.
So, next time you see a celebrity praising Scientology, keep this in mind.

[K-W]

50. Yep, the celebs get a posh version of scientology.

They get to hobnob with each other in an exclusive mansion while the rank and file are paying thousands of dollars for the privelidge of being brain washed.

[mitchum]

54. Insecure, generally uneducated, rich egotists are perfect fodder.

[smirkymonkey]

28. That's a pretty creepy website.

I had no idea it was that fucked up - really scary.

[julialnyc]

31. Me too

I always thought is was sorta weird, but never realized it had to do with people evolving from clams and aliens that you needed to spend all of your money to protect you from.

This is really out there (and mind blowing that it seems to have been a successful ploy).

[julialnyc]

10. Thanks for all of the info and links

I really had no idea what Scientology was about. I agree that everyone is entitled to their beliefs, but the scam in this seems that they chose to become a religion for tax reasons (rather than a self-help group) so that they can take donations tax-free.

The other basic observation I had is that one of their main main things is anti-phyciatry....... isn't that convenient for brain washers.

[mr blur]

12. A loony cult started

by a dishonest, greedy hack sci-fi writer with the object of making a fortune - which he did. Read "Bare Faced Messiah" by Russell Miller for the low-down and you'll wonder how Cruise, Travolta et al could be so dumb.

http://www.nots.org/

[kikiek]

13. Here is a link to the 1990 series on them by the LA Times. Very well

written and informative.http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/la90/

[julialnyc]

15. My Scientology story.. thanks for the link, it mentions this

Let me tell you a story. About four years ago my dad wanted to enroll my little brother in a SAT study course. My little brother was always a great student in papers, but didn't test well. So my dad saw an advertisement in the New York Times for SAT study. My brother went to the first class and he was handed a copy of Dionetics (I don't know how to spell). He stayed for the hour because he was waiting for his ride home and was trying to ask what Scientology was about. He said the clearest explanation (which was neither clear or an explanation) was that they believe that everything has positive and negative energy. From a person to a cat to a piece of furniture.

He said it was bizarre, but he could understand how they "got" people. He said that they were praying on kids and that kids are all into conspiracy and the "coolness" of spirituality (not the actuality of it). He also said that they were extremely nice all of the people there.



That is some pretty twisted selling and marketing of a religion. Market your product in a Paper where the average reader is in a higher economic bracket and sell to 18 year olds whose parents are paying the bill. It seems pretty twisted to me. Why would a religion advertise as a SAT study course. Anyway, that is the only first hand thing I know about Scientology.

[kikiek]

17. Yeah check this one out they must still be around!

http://home.snafu.de/tilman/mystory/applied.html

[julialnyc]

19. I have to send that link to my brother!!!!

thanks for the link!

[julialnyc]

16. something else I noticed

the link (in the category "final days") mentions that Hubbard was lat in the desert in his compound with the film and sound studio. Why did they have recording studios?

[kikiek]

18. Probably hoped to make his own movies. Remember Travolta had

a studio make that one book of his into a movie a few years ago. Major bomb. I have no respect for any celebrity I hear is involved with them.

[julialnyc]

20. it was supposed to be one of the most expensive bombs in Hollywood

I guess their must be many fat cat producers into this!

At first I was wondering if they made videos like Mormons (I always used to get those videos sent to me), but thought it was weird as Scientology is so secretive.

[kikiek]

21. He was a terrible writer. I don't know how anyone could even read his

books. The amazing thing to me still is that this "religion" continues. What a farce.

[wrate]

23. There's a movie called "Battlefield Earth" , out of a novel by Hubbard and

with Travolta in it. Guess what type of ideology this film promotes. It's absolutely ridiculous. I cannot understand how Spielberg could have picked Tom Cruise for that War of the Worlds movie. That alone spoiled the movie for me.

[kikiek]

24. Me too. There are certain actors I can't watch the movies of he is one.

[fujiyama]

62. Battlefield Earth was the film

Apparently it was a terrible movie.

[orpupilofnature57]

22. Cool if your a millionaire, and can control your environment, otherwise

It's like so many other Cult's, trying to make fundamental, what is still mystery.Jesus sent the apostles to drink from a forbidden well, not to break the law, but because they were thirsty.Dogma that defies common sense, is harmful.

[tommcintyre]

25. Years ago, the site bought out their top critic sight....

and surreptitiously disseminated information from it to an unknowing public.

Also, for years it tried to hide the fact that it's founder was dead.

In the 80's, I was really into self-improvement/personal growth. I went in for an "interview". It was one of the creepiest experiences I ever had; and they hounded me for years, trying to get me to join. (I think hoping to chance upon a "weak" moment in my life, where I would be more susceptible to looking for an "answer". This is the way many cults operate.)

[Princess Turandot]

26. Why is scientology opposed to psychiatry?...

This seems to be fundamental to their 'beliefs' but what is their point?

Is there a deity system involved with scientology? Whenever I see references to them, they seem to show photos of people sitting in front of what looks like a gizmo someone made in their basement that you hope doesnt short-circuit!

Oddly, when the WTC clean-up was underway, the scientologists were one of the officially authorized organizations to provide services to the workers, right along side the Red Cross. That I never quite got.

[julialnyc]

30. I agree

For a group that is supposedly against therapy, its whole concept seems like therapy (there isn't allot of history like other religions).

It just seems like mental health wouldn't be the thing a cult would want you to focus on!

[julialnyc]

43. Tom Cruise

has cappuccino tents on the sets of his film where people on the set can get counseling from the scientolgist (I'll admit it....... I read People!)

I don't know exactly what the deity is, I just know that they try to get rid of the evil particles that supposedly live in all of us (which belonged to someone who was blown up by an H-Bomb).


My friend used to live next to the church of Scientology in new york and there would always be limos in front. The weirdest thing I thought was the fact that many females were wearing what looked like flight attendant outfits....... what's up with that?

[julialnyc]

44. here's a illustrated break-down

http://www.xenu.net/archive/scientology_illustrated/

[FourStarDemocrat]

70. They're opposed to psychiatry because they want followers to be..

dependent on the methods of Scientology for all self-help purposes, and not trusting of actual scientific treatments based on facts, data and medical peer review. Their talking points are a scam pure and simple--and with psychiatry out of the way as a possible solution to the real needs of their members and potential members, then the bullshit methods of mental improvement that can be obtained by Scientology become the ONLY legitimate way to go for their hopeful but brainwashed members.

[julialnyc]

71. I was also reading

that Hubbard first came out with his "theory" trying to have psychological acclaim, but was rejected by the medical community.

This is a mix of financial corruption and a grudge.

[Walt Starr]

27. The basis of the Scientology cult

Here it is, in all its glory. The myth of Scientology:

Once upon a time (75 million years ago to be more precise) there was an alien galactic ruler named Xenu. Xenu was in charge of all the planets in this part of the galaxy including our own planet Earth, except in those days it was called Teegeeack.

Now Xenu had a problem. All of the 76 planets he controlled were overpopulated. Each planet had on average 178 billion people. He wanted to get rid of all the overpopulation so he had a plan.

Xenu took over complete control with the help of renegades to defeat the good people and the Loyal Officers. Then with the help of psychiatrists he called in billions of people for income tax inspections where they were instead given injections of alcohol and glycol mixed to paralyse them. Then they were put into space planes that looked exactly like DC8s (except they had rocket motors instead of propellers).

<snip>

http://www.xenu.net/archive/leaflet/xenuleaf.htm

I couldn't make this shit up if I tried, but L. Ron hubbard could. This just goes to show you why he was such a LOUSY Science Fiction writer (pulp variety). I had a friend in the sixth grade who wrote better science fiction than Hubbard.

[julialnyc]

32. W@OW!!

[Walt Starr]

38. The only thing weirder than the story Hubbard made up to base his religion

on are the people who buy into that bullshit!

[julialnyc]

41. people are easy to prey on

if you catch them in a certain moment in their lives.

[julialnyc]

61. like most things in life

people desperately want to think there is an easy solution for life's complicated questions. It is surprising easy to make people drink the koolaide (sad, but true....... we of all people should all know this!!!!!)

[mitchum]

33. Actors are PERFECT fodder for Scientology...

dumb, insecure people with lots of $$$$$$$$$$$

Hitchcock rightly said that actors should be treated like cattle, but Hubbard apparently considered them to be more like cash cows. They were both right.

[julialnyc]

34. Hollywood actors are perfect for this

People who want to be God like will easily fall for a cult that will make them feel that much closer to the "answer" than regular people!

[6000eliot]

40. More importantly

The Scientology people know and will keep their secrets. Is it any surprise that the biggest names in the cult also have the most gay rumors circulating about them?

[bettyellen]

65. very early on they have you confess your weak moraled moments.....

and they record it, so yeah travolta is in for life.
it's a careerist, i'm better than you (or will be) type of thing. there is no interest in helping your fellow man whatsoever which is why i find it insulting they call it a religion. they have no respect for anyone outside the cult, none. we are all negatives to them

[JohnnyBoots]

36. like all organized religion it is

1. a metaphor to explain and express spirituality
2. a tool to control the masses

take your pick

[julialnyc]

37. but this is a little different

in the sense that it was created by a science fiction writer and uses machines on people.

I am not religious myself, but I don't look at someone who is as brain washed (many people like the traditions around religion and take what they need from it and leave the rest........ my parents are like that anyway). I guess I find Scientology fascinating (in a scary way) because someone just decided that it was here and people spend tons of money to get to "higher levels" and let people use machines on them. Scientology is more of a choice than that was just the religion you were raised in.

[Guaranteed]

73. As opposed to the Bible? nt

[K-W]

51. That is a vicious oversimplification and overgeneralization. EOM

[JohnnyBoots]

55. A cult is a cult whatever shape it takes

[K-W]

63. Not all religions are cults and not all cults are religions.

But lets not squabble over catagorizations.

I dont take any issue with comparing the similarities between ideologies or organizations, but I dont see the point in whitewashing the differences.

The destinctions between scientology and other religions/ideologies/cults are important.

[liberal hypnotist]

39. Scientology is a religion because...

Scientology is a religion only for tax exempt status. Big Ron was living on his yacht and being chased by the money police, IRS. He got his science fiction idea labeled non-profit, religious status as a way to get back. His inner circle was really something. No one knows for sure when Ron died. They were planning to have him ascend into heaven. If only he had a shot at today's technology, wow!

[K-W]

52. Its an amazing story, because it worked.

Scientology defies conventional wisdom on how hairbrained a scheme can work.

[Endangered Specie]

57. we all should start a crackpot cult/religion...

could use the money

Ill call mine "Speciology"

[mitchum]

59. I would, but my wife won't let

this has been an "issue" with us for a long time :) I possess both the burning de$ire and the particular gift$ for such an endeavor :)

[Endangered Specie]

45. Heres a list of assorted links:

Critical (read these first):
http://www.clambake.org/ http://www.xenu.net (huge)
http://www.scientology-lies.com/
http://www.scientology-kills.com/
http://www.whyaretheydead.net/
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Fishman/time-behar.html

neutral (with lots of internal and external links):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_controversy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_articles_about_Scientology

Pro (view these with caution):
http://www.religioustolerance.org/scientol.htm

From the horses mouth (abandon ye all brains who here enter):
http://www.scientology.org/
http://www.dianetics.org/


List of famous scientologists (will make you go :wtf:)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Scientologists


Funny:
www.rotten.com/library/religion/scientology/
http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/religion/cult/l-ron-hubbard/

[julialnyc]

46. I noticed many of the actors

Have been ones that have had drug/alcohol problems. They must prey on people in recovery.

[mitchum]

53. Sure enough! Kirstie Alley credits Scientology with breaking...

her cocaine habit. Apparently, it doesn't work so well with ice cream and doughnuts.

[Endangered Specie]

56. God, the thought of her getting her hollywood start....

playing a Vulcan, on one of the best pieces of Star Trek ever made..... makes me sick.

[Hippo_Tron]

58. I liked the idea of Scientology, until I learned that they were serious

Converting to a religion from a Science Fiction book is fun. Actually practicing that religion is stupid.

[Walt Starr]

67. Let's base a religion on Dune

The Mahdi, Paul Muad Dib, commands Jihad against the Harkonnen and Corrino scum throughout the Universe!

[julialnyc]

72. I'd rather

base it on twin peaks!

[devilgrrl]

64. It's all about money

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[bettyellen]

66. they get you to dump all former friends and family .......

and they have crazy theories about your brain and emotins which is why they keep you away from real docs and psychologists who might clue you in to the bullshit. they put you on track to be owing them big bucks your whole life.

[julialnyc]

69. Poison

Poison doesn't work if you allow someone to go near the antidote.