A question for religious DU'ers WRT CIA paying fake clerics.....

[Liberal Veteran]

This is not designed to be a flame war, but an actual question. I am agnostic who grew up as a Christian, but turned away from organized religion because on examination, I found I didn't require that in my life to be spiritual. That is neither here nor there.

Reading the article about the CIA paying fake Muslims clerics/mullahs to spread "moderate, pro-american" sentiment in the Middle East struck me as a disgusting tactic, although I read a couple of DU'ers that actually thought this was a good idea.

I don't. I have always believed that being a cleric of any faith was a vocation (a calling from God if you will). I find the notion of hiring people to pretend to be muslims clerics to be disrespectful and downright blasphemous and I wonder how DU'ers who are aligned with particular faiths would feel to find that their particular priest, priestess, rabbi, whatever was a paid operative of a particular government?

I understand the nature of propaganda, but I wonder if this is really a good idea.

What are your thoughts on it?

[youngred]

1. I think that's absolutely disgusting

and discredits much of what we have to say about our "moderate", "pro-american", we're-the-good-guys propaganda. Giving voice to moderate or pro-american clerics fine, but putting up mullahs to preach that message is the ultimate slap in the face. If people began listening to these charlatans and they were discovered ANY goodwill that might have existed would evaporate faster than alcohol near chimpy

[displacedtexan]

2. 'jesus wept'

just about says it all.
if xtians would remember the shortest bible verse, they might think before they act.

[blondeatlast]

6. Agreed. And I do remember that phrase often.

Now more than ever.

[joycep]

3. It is not good as far as I am concerned

If the US would act in the right manner, we would not have to pay someone to say that we are ok. In other words, we should walk the walk, not talk the talk. I would certainly not want my minister paid by the Government to influence me a certain way. I believe the Golden Rule is just as good for governments as for ordinary people.

[dawg]

4. If they would do it to Muslims there ...

they would do it to Christians here.

[PsychoDad]

5. It does make me wonder....

Who else may be on the payroll? American Muslim leaders? Sun Yung Moon maybe? Fallwell, Robertson? Benny Hine? L. Ron Hubbard?

Maybe entire conventions/sects, ie: Aryian Brotherhood, The Southern Baptists, Mormons, etc.?

Paid by the government to keep the belivers in line, and centered firmly in proper view of politics, obedience, and religion by preaching a pro-agenda/USA message. Unquestioning seritude to the state in the name of religion....

Wonder how this works in regards with the first admendment?
:eyes:

Tin foil kufi time :tinfoilhat:

[sangh0]

11. Black churches take Repuke money

as admitted by a high level RNC operative whose name I cant remember. (First name = Ed?)

[Resistance Is Futile]

13. The Unification Church

Moon's Unification Church does have very close ties to the CIA and the cash flow between the two organizations has essentially been bidirectional at times.

[blondeatlast]

7. As a Christian, I despise the idea.

However, I am not averse to having Muslim believers go in and preach tolerance of the US and others ON THEIR TERMS, not those of the CIA or bush administration. That means no money from the gummint.

In fact, I think that would be a pretty good idea: no conversion involved, instead, offering a different perspective that they are accustomed to in the ME.

It would have to be initiated by Muslims, of course, wth Muslim scholars oversseing it.


Haven't read that thread but I'd like to. Link?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

8. Happens all the time, and has forever

Surely no one is surprised that religious leaders are being paid by political leaders? Try reading a history book.

Not only that, but the US via CIA has lots of connections to missionary groups sent from the US to South America and elsewhere.

[Liberal Veteran]

9. I think it's the notion of creating fake clerics out the whole cloth...

"In Islam, as in many other religions, anyone can call himself a religious leader," Mr Kessler is quoted as saying. "So, besides paying mullahs, the CIA created fake mullahs - recruited agents who would proclaim themselves clerics and take a more moderate position about non-believers."

I dunno....I just find the notion of fake mullahs to be a lot more disgusting and disrespectful than subsidizing REAL clerics who are sympathetic.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

10. no different than Pat Robertson

as far as I can tell

[Lydia Leftcoast]

12. It IS offensive...

but the U.S. governments have done it a lot, and I bet they're still doing it.

During the Central American conflicts, there were persistent rumors that the C.I.A. was helping American fundamentalist and Pentecostal missionaries who told the people to submit meekly to their governments. President Rios Montt of Guatemala, one of the worst human rights violators in that country's sorry history, was a member of one of those American-sponsored groups.

I keep asking why the fundies are able to build large, luxurious church complexes in the suburbs almost instantly. Having grown up as a preacher's kid, I know that mainstream churches take years to reach that stage. Since the huge church complexes provide a total information environment (church services, study groups, social activities for everyone from preschoolers to seniors, broadcast and print media, music, personal counseling) and instill a fear and suspicion of "non-Christian" sources of information, they can be a tremendous force in indoctrination.

If any investigative journalists are reading this, I urge them to investigate the possibility that the suburban megachurches are being funded by conservative political forces. I may be wrong, but the question warrants an inquiry.

[Liberator_Rev]

14. Spain's King & Queen paid "real" clergy to support it invasion of America

It's practically the same thing, except the clergy were authentic. But they were on the royal payroll and the Church blessed the carnage, the robbery and the enslavement of the Native Americans and was paid HANDSOMELY for that blessing, with a fixed percentage of the loot.

I have been reading an extremely interesting book on the "American Holocaust", which cost about 100,000,000 native Americans their lives. Since the CONQUEROR'S wrote the history, it takes a lot of work to get to the FACTS. I really urge every Liberal reading this to go out and get this great book by David E. Stannard.
http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org.

See what Christ might say about the "Christian Coalition" & "Religious Right" imposters.