Your chance to assist the city of Fresno against Free Republic

[Patriot_Spear]

Democratic Underground is the one group in America today who is most aware of the willful malice and anti-American views promulgated at the website Free Republic.

The current lawsuit FR has launched against the City of Fresno is a perfect opportunity for us to get their virulent brand of hate speech into the public record.

You can do your part by using the contact information below to share some of the more egregious statement / acts on FR with the city's attorney; giving him the ammunition necessary to make the honest label of 'hate group' stick to that noxious den of filth known as Free Republic.


Breaking News Thread on Lawsuit: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=128845&mesg_id=128845


Fresno City Atty Contact info:
Fresno City Hall
2600 Fresno Street
Second Floor
Fresno, CA 93721-3600

Phone [phone]
FAX [phone]

[e-mail]

[bearfartinthewoods]

1. ya know, we are not exactly innocent of 'hate speech' here.

this pot is not willing to call that kettle black because i don't want the scrub brush coming after DU next.

i do love my freedoms..

[prolesunited]

3. Yeah

FR and DU are on the same level. :eyes: Hating Bush and his administration and advocating harm and violence against African-Americans, Muslisms, gays, liberals are exactly the same. NOT!

I have no problem with their existence and they have a right to their free speech, just as we do here, but on numerous occasions, they have tried to incite people to violence and THAT is where they crossed the line.

You prove to me that DU is a hate group on par with FR. I am certain that you can't.

[bearfartinthewoods]

7. first, i have to admit that i don't hang out at FR so my experience is

several years old. when i did read FR, i did see MEMBERS advocating harm and violence against certain groups but those posts were usually removed pretty quickly.

it's ridiculous to hold admin responsible for everything said on a website. how do you think Skinner would feel if he were held responsible for the content of every locked or deleted thread and post here?

now if FR has changed in some way that indicates that admin is promoting violence, that's a different story. but i doubt it and i'm not likely to hang out there long enough to try and prove it.

[Patriot_Spear]

9. Like it or not- the site owner is responsible.

As I'm sure skinner could tell you- why elese do you think he has to recruit Mod's every two months?

Use your head man...

[bearfartinthewoods]

10. doesn't freepville have mods anymore?

if so than things have changed.

as to why Skinner needs new mods every 60 days, maybe because it's a thankless, exasperating chore for which they aren't paid? <grin>.

are you saying a site owner is responsible for things that are posted even though they are then deleted by mods acting on behalf of admin?

[Patriot_Spear]

21. If it happens over and over and over and over and over ...

...and over and over and over again- and then left up for days and days and days and days?

Sorry, you're contension that FR and DU are the same is just flat out wrong. Period.

[Patriot_Spear]

4. Let me get this straight; you're saying DU is equal to FR?

C'mon man- you need to give up the 'wake & bake' scenario if you're really equating the crazy hate at Freakkk republikkk to DU.

[bearfartinthewoods]

6. i'm saying i like my freedom of speech

and realize that anything that threatens freepvilles freedom threathens our freedom.

[Patriot_Spear]

8. Horse pucky...

The argument has nothing to with 'free speech'. The essence of the question is 'does FR (or anyone else for that matter) have the right in incite violence and promote criminal behavior through their website'.

The resounding answer is no.

C'mon, quit playing games- Are you seriously defending FR's right to say something like 'I enjoy hanginig niggers'?

Give me a break.

[Terwilliger]

14. I WILL

are you not an American, patriot_spear? Free Speech is paramount.

Frankly, DU should not assist in anything. If Fresno calls out for examples to help their case, then people could forward things. DU itself should not participate in an organized attack.

[bearfartinthewoods]

15. are you saying that statement was not pulled?

i'm saying site admin should do due diligence against inappropriate
postings but should not be held responsible for the fact that they are posted.

hey...i have seen people say they'd like to koll bush here at DU.
the posts are pulled as soon as someone alerts on them. what more
could anyone expect?

[liberalhistorian]

11. They would have absolutely NO AMMO against us!

We do NOT foment hatred and incite violence against any group that isn't in exact lockstep with us, or against minorities, gays, "furriners", feminists, the French, Muslims, non-evangelical Christians, etc., etc., nor do we say things like "ten thousand down, ten million more to go", regarding the French and the heat wave that killed 10,000 in that country. Nor do we say things like, in referring to the Iraqis, "kill them all and then forget about the damn country."

I deeply resent your implication that DU is anything at all like Freak Republic. Yes, we do have the occasional oddball, but, unlike at Freak Republic, that occasional oddball is usually quickly shouted down and tombstoned.

[bearfartinthewoods]

18. oh puleeease

you wrote:

"We do NOT foment hatred and incite violence against any group that isn't in exact lockstep with us,"

ya gotta be kidding...

no one here ever expresses or foments any hatred or violent wishes towards republicans or freepers or rushbots or any one of a hundred famous neocons?

ON EDIT...i have an appointment but i will be back this PM should you wish to continue.

[Patriot_Spear]

22. Buddy, you're out there...

If you really think FR and DU have the same content, then I seriously doubt your critical thinking skills.

Nothing Personal- But FR is filled with the kind of hate speech that would send any decent person running from the room.

[buff2]

23. I agree with you 100%

I never will forget that thread over at FR during the 2000 Presidential campaign when they were yucking it up about how they intercepted a democratic conference phone call with a reporter....and how they made obnoxious noises,burped and farted into the phone,and continuously flushed their toilets. It was awful how they were carrying on...in fact,it was so bad the phone conference had to end because of it.I can't imagine anyone here would do anything that low down. That group of hatemongers will stoop to anything,as long as they think it is hurting someone else who doesn't agree with their facist nazi views. There is no damn sense in going as far as they go....like shouting and screaming 24/7 in front of Al Gore's house in 2000..."get out of Cheney's house" and "soreloserman". My God.......anyone who defends those horrible people are just as bad as THEY are IMHO. It's one thing to have a different opinion,but when you hatch up hellish plans like they do,it's going too far. That is one website that needs to be taken down......that and those anti-abortion sites where they promote the murders of Doctors who preform abortions.The stuff they put up over there about Hillary and Bill is the most obnoxious despicable garbage I've ever seen on a website. It's enough to make you cringe....and puke buckets. :puke:

[bearfartinthewoods]

25. seems like some here will stoop pretty far as well

even so far as to repress freedom of speech because people make them angry, protest against the administration and pull off a really funny stunt.

i'm not going to click on this thread anymore.

you people are scaring the helloutta me,

ever hear the phrase, i despise what you are saying but i'd fight for your right to say it?

[Patriot_Spear]

27. You're not fooling me...

This is not about free speech and you know it- it's about the place where hateful speech translates into hateful acts; the difference bwtween writing about rascism and burning a cross on someone's lawn.

[buff2]

30. You scare the hell outta ME!!!

Your defending those hatemongers makes me wonder if you're in the group you really agree with. You sure as hell don't sound like one of us. :grr:

[bearfartinthewoods]

24. well, as i said, i don't go there anymore so can you point me to what

you're talking about? some thread you feel is typical? thanx

[buff2]

31. Then what makes you such an authority about what is going on over there?

If you haven't read their BS lately,then how do you know what the rest of us are talking about? Geez... :crazy:

[FlaGranny]

13. I don't believe anyone is threatening their freedom.

They started the lawsuit didn't they? No one is trying to close Free Republic down. The worst thing that can happen, once a judge or jury see the evidence, is that they'll lose their libel lawsuit.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

2. Robinson has made...

A grave tactical error. In a lawsuit, there is something known as "discovery" and it works both ways. He is going to have to open up a lot, all, of the FR archives to Fresno's lawyers. If he goes and purges the archives, he stands to get in a real peck of trouble, now that he has filed suit. Even so, no matter. There is no shortage of people who have been archiving interesting nuggets from the site, as well as the Google archives.

Even if he drops the suit, he's gone a Bridge Too Far. Can we say bye-bye yet?

[prolesunited]

5. Several posters have put archived files

in this thread here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=128845&mesg_id=128845

You may want to PM them and urge them to forward their files to the attorneys.

[tinanator]

12. him?

unless you have been threatened or worse, offline, I dont think a bunch of angry emails amount to much more than a nuisance.
Neither is a bunch of DU bickering and "wake and bake" insults. I find you thoughtless and rather condescending (for want of a more potent term) with remarks like that.

[prolesunited]

16. Here's from a DU thread the other day

Background on the situation with examples of some of the threats that led up to me. You show me where this would be tolerated on DU. They are threatening to shoot people. That is NOT free speech.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=351282#353288

Mrs. Reyes said she had has seen evidence that the Free Republic was "antigay and anti-immigration."
    "When intolerance comes to the table, we need to answer that call," she said.
    And the big "hate rally" itself?
    According to the Bee: "About a dozen people met at Shaw and Blackstone avenues Friday. They listened to country music, waved American flags and held signs asking drivers to honk their horns if they support U.S. soldiers."

There was much more to it than. You can watch the whole situation unfold on this thread at IndyMedia:
http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/09/1639517_comment.php#1639563

Basically a group called Freepwatch wanted to protest the Freepers picnic, an action most of the organized groups voted down. However, we've seen how Freepers react when cornered. From the link:

There has been discussion in the Fresno media about whether Debbie Reyes did the right thing in her attempt to alert the community to the potential for violence at the Free Republic demonstration. Here are some of the messages we saw in the days leading up to the event. You can decide for yourself whether there was reason for concern about the public’s safety:
"Let's be there in numbers." More teeth to knock out.Assholes.

************************************************

Many freepers are armed. I wouldn't do this.

********************************************

Sounds like fun!!! Whuppin' some anarchist ass and showing support for America...

*********************************************

Maybe they'll "protest" much along the same lines as their slovenly (and little-missed) heroine du jour, the late Rachel "Speed Bump" Corrie.

Hey... I'm beginning to see a potential upside to this whole "protest" deal, after all...

(Note from Mike Rhodes: Rachel Corrie was murdered at a protest in Israel when she was run over by a bulldozer)

******************************************

You forgot pro-gun. FR members are PRO-GUN. You guys need to remember that; it's very important. They are PRO-GUN! Some of them consider gun-laws to be unconstitutional. Disrupt at your own risk.

******************************************

And their knees make easy targets.........

***************************

Stuff for picnic by this will be fun Thursday September 11, 2003 at 01:50 PM
Lets see... I got the sodas, the watermelon, fresh batteries for the stun guns, softball bats, pepper spray, my steel toed boots, arm bars, knee bars, chokes, neck cranks, wrist locks, shoulder locks...this should be a fun picnic...I almost hope that these uninvited guests show up.

*****************************
Do I get to test it out!!!!!! by my new S&W 500 Thursday September 11, 2003 at 02:27 PM
(note from Mike Rhodes - this message contained a .jpg image of various caliber ammunition. Let me know if you would like to see the original)

****************************
and this message was sent directly to me:

To: [e-mail]
Subject: We have guns, lots of guns

I wouldn't fool

That's when Reyes stepped in and called them a hate group.


The situation is further aggravated by city leaders partaking in some of this hate speech as well:

The current controversy began when the City Attorney's Office made the e-mails public in response to a request by The Bee. Though Calhoun didn't send controversial e-mails, critics contend, he is culpable because he received Kloose's e-mails and did not discipline her.

In one e-mail, on June 10, Duncan wrote to Kloose: "If I had one dirty bomb ... I could eliminate all the liberals in Fresno at once." The e-mail was written during City Council discussion of the Human Rights Commission's budget for the current fiscal year.

Many HRC supporters are politically liberal and were present in council chambers that day. During the same meeting, Kloose wrote to Calhoun: "If these HRC folks bring down a crowd and get unruly, I'm calling to send over some officers to 'Cap' these guys "

http://www.fresnobee.com/local/story/7445084p-8362763c.html

[noonwitch]

17. The freepers have the right to say what they want on their website

Even if it is hateful. The City of Fresno has the right to not support it in any way, shape or form.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

19. Not when it comes to killers of abortion providers

Yeah, read some of that stuff. :puke: JimRob wants roe v. wade overturned.

[tinanator]

20. yeah but

it would appear that there are freepers on and in the city council.
At that point, Id say its a sticky wicket. (sp?) They have been, in fact, supported by the doofus mayor who labelled them "not a hate group" and that should be to his everlasting shame. Somehow I doubt it, though.

[dfong63]

26. be careful what you wish for

if they can declare "free republic" a hate group, then they can do the same to DU and other websites. i dunno about the merits of the free repub lawsuit, but i think that the fresno board declaring them a "hate group" was just plain dumb.

[Patriot_Spear]

28. Ha-ha, 'bring it on'

n/t

[prolesunited]

29. Have you examined ANY of the postings

from there that have been reposted here?!?! You show me how DU qualifies as a hate group.

They have the right to their opinions, to post them and speak freely. They do NOT have the right to threaten and intimidate and harass private citizens and try to incite violence against the groups they target.

Do your see ANYBODY here advocating violence or threatening people?

I don't want them to be shut down. I uphold their right to exist and speak their minds. However, perhaps they will no longer openly advocate violence against groups and individuals on their site.

Free speech requires responsibility. There are strings attached, just like you can't yell fire in a crowded theater. Think of Hale and his "church," which incited a killing spree by his follower. Sure, he didn't pull the trigger, but he certainly bears some responsibility for this taking place.

Hale investigated in 1999 Illinois shootings
CHICAGO (AP) - A federal grand jury is investigating whether white supremacist Matt Hale ordered or encouraged a fellow supremacist's shooting rampage, federal prosecutors revealed in filing a new obstruction of justice charge against him.

Over the 1999 Fourth of July weekend, Benjamin Smith, a member of Hale's World Church of the Creator - now based in Riverton, Wyo., but then headquartered in East Peoria - targeted minorities in Illinois and Indiana, killing two people and injuring nine before killing himself.
http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&display=rednews/2003/08/30/build/wyoming/35-haleshootings.inc

[tinanator]

32. DU as a hate group?

gee, I dont know.. Let's poll some Nader voters for their response...