Phone call with Republican dad

[Plaid Adder]

My father, the guy who voted for Bush knowing he was an idiot because "he would surround himself with good people," now acknowledges that the Bush team is basically a disaster. At least, he acknowledges the following:

1) The speech at the U.N. basically laid an egg, despite the NYT being "remarkably kind" in their commentary.
2) The gang had no plan for what happened after they won the war, which is astonishing.
3) Things are "not good."
4) Condoleeza Rice has turned out to be a disaster.
5) If nothing changes, Bush "could lose this election, which would be incredible."

He also expressed surprise that Clark is polling so high, given the "World War III" story, which he was able to repeat in detail.

I said I didn't like Clark either (although for different reasons). He asked me who my candidate was. I said I didn't have one, although Kucinich was closest to me on the issues, and that although I had heard a lot about Dean I didn't really know much about what he planned to actually *do*, ditto for Edwards, who Liza likes. He said, "Well, their plan is to get elected."

Which is of course true. But I still would like an exit strategy. Although I don't blame them for not having one. I can't think of one either.

Anyway, my dad remains a paternalistic capitalist imperalist who thinks we need to spend the money to rebuild the Iraqi oil industry "under American leadership" and then use the money to pay for the cost of the war...but at least he can now figure out that Bush isn't even very good at being a capitalist pig.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[stevedeshazer]

1. Sweet

When the "paternalistic capitalist imperialists" start seeing Bushco for what it is, that's progress.

[dkf]

2. The tide is turning.

I always said that Bush was a blight on our country.

Sadly I was right.

[CWebster]

3. Interesting

that he doesn't care for Clark.

I guess the older generations aren't likely to forget the cold-war stand-off and the real risks poised with any foolish or careless moves.

[Renew Deal]

5. That or

he got his detailed version of the story from Limpballs.

[Plaid Adder]

6. Very unlikely

My dad isn't the Rush kind of Republican. He does listen to Imus, who he said did a number on Bush's U.N. speech this morning.

I think it's more likely he got the story from the NYT or some other mainstream source; I've seen it plenty of places.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[NNN0LHI]

7. What made him think Bush would surround himself with fine fellows then?

[Plaid Adder]

8. He trusts rich old white guys.

It's really that simple. Being a rich white guy in his 60s himself, he feels better when the country is being run by people who understand that rich white guys know what's best for the economy. I don't think he quite understood about the kind fo corruption in which these particular rich white guys were involved.

I mean, you all can bash my dad if you want, but I don't think we're gonna get anywhere by refusing to accept the idea that for some people being a Republican can be a principled (if, in my opinion, utterly misguided) decision, and not necessarily the result of Rush Limbaugh's brainwashing.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[NNN0LHI]

10. Being a racist equates with one with being principled? Hokay n/t

[Plaid Adder]

16. OK, I retract the term "principled."

But I must do right by my dad, who never asked to be drawn into this conversation:

To the extent that my dad is racist, it's the kind of racism that I would argue is shared by about 95% of the white American community, including most of us here at DU: the basic assumption that power and whiteness just sort of go together. Looking a field of candidates, he's just gonna assume that the most "presidential" or the best "leader" is going to be a white guy in a suit. (And indeed, if large chunks of the DU population aren't also making that assumption, then what explains the fact that the vast majority of the threads are about 3 white guys in suits, while Sharpton and Moseley-Braun hardly ever come up?) He's not *conscious* of doing that, and if you asked him he would say that he believes in racial equality and he has actually done some things to promote racial and gender equity in the field in which he works. But he has not gotten around to examining the whole problem of white privilege, or the fact that his political beliefs are shaped by it. And yes, that is a problem, but it doesn't make him Trent Lott.

My point was that my dad is part of the same club that the Bushes and Cheney are part of, and that's why given the choice he votes for guys like them. Yes, race is part of that; but so is a shared culture which indoctrinates them all with Chicago school economics and teaches that it actually hurts people to try to deviate from the workings of the market. He represents a different part of the Bush base, one which I would argue is probably more important in the long run than the raving Freepers across the way: corporate conservatives who don't really give a shit about having the Ten Commandments in the courthouse or John Ashcroft in the bedroom, but support Republican economic policies because they help preserve what they consider to be an A-OK status quo. This is a segment of the country that basically votes Republican no matter what they run, and I think the 2000 election proved that they are a force to be reckoned with.

The reason I posted about this conversation in the first place is that I see it as a sign of hope. My dad is probably never going to vote for a Democratic presidential candidate, alas. BUT, I also do not see him shelling out a dime, much less $2000, to re-elect President Miserable Failure. If enough of his corporate buddies feel the same way, then the money tap is not going to gush as it was wont to, and Junior is in deep doo-doo.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[paulk]

9. well, that is what the media told us pre election

24/7

[Plaid Adder]

19. Bingo.

I would say the major thing that separates my political POV from that of the rest of my family right now is that they believe what they hear in the American media. Specifically, they believe the New York Times.

It drives me nuts, frankly. My mother's opinions can be reliably forecasted based on whatever Thomas Friedman is blathering about on any given day. With my father and my brother the WSJ is more of a factor, but they still see the NYT as the standard for what's "real" information. None of them would so much as look at the Guardian, even though, as my mother constantly tells people, they did live in England for several years. Meanwhile, my sister, who has actually logged some time assistant-producing for ABC and Discovery News, has managed to learn all about how sausage is made without being at all put off sausage, to use Bismarck's analogy, whereas after hearing her war stories I can never quite look at sausage the same way again.

Ah, the mystery of kinship.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[ElsewheresDaughter]

4. i have an exit plan here....and i suggested it to Senator Kennedy

The USA should take half of the $87 billion Bush* is requesting for his quagmire, earmark it for Iraq, hand it to the UN and say "we are pulling out because we understand that the provocative presence of US troops is doing no one -- particularly the Iraqi people and US troops -- any good." Such a sane move would immediately dampen the radical Islamic case.


$43.5 billion would go a lot further towards rebuilding Iraq than the $87 billion that would mostly end up in Halliburton's vault.


or even offer the entire $87B to UN earmarked for Iraq and get the fuck out!

[sangh0]

11. About the WWIII story

Ask anybody who repeats it "Do you really think that Russia (and not the USSR. The USSR had fallen by this time) would want to start WWIII over Serbia?"

[WilliamPitt]

12. If you do a little digging into the big BUSH LIES thread I started

You'll find something about how the oil revenues from Iraq can't come close to paying for this mess, and they knew it.

I think your dad and matcom's dad should get together and go bowling. :)

[TioDiego]

13. Way too proletariat, Polo would be better.

I have seen a lot of Republicans doing 180's on Bush too, Plaid.

[Plaid Adder]

17. Hey, my dad would bowl, he grew up in the Midwest...

In fact I remember him taking us bowling often when we were little. I was never very good at it, though.

I dunno about linking the Plaidder and matcom dynasties though, imagine what would happen.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[Oilwellian]

14. You can add my dad to the mix

Plaid was describing him perfectly only he's much older. I learned last summer NOT to talk politics with my dad. I had him so upset, he left the table saying "I'm not going to listen to this horseshit anymore." Oh well, I tried. It was one of those moments where I had to ask myself if I'd rather be right, than happy. I chose happy considering my dad doesn't have that many years left.

[Brush_Hill]

15. The tide IS turning!!!!

The long and short...My family in South Carolina has turned away from the Republican Party en masse over what my 70 year old aunt calls "this stupid war over oil." It is beginning to happen. I come from a long line of Citadel graduates and I have to say that if these people can see the light, it shouldn't be too hard to get a Democrat in the White House in 2004.

[Clark Can WIN]

18. Perhaps your father will learn to look beyond

Axe grinding hatchet jobs and spend more time getting to know Clark, like say in the debates. I can guarantee that Republicans like your father and conservative and moderate independents will feel alot "safer" casting their vote with a four star general than Kucinch. The margins will reamain close all the way to the end in this election too, so if we really want to win this time we had better just make sure we don't blow our own feet off before the big race begins.

BTW. How is it that pigboy and company can invest so much stock in one magniloquently overblown and overhyped and bloodless incident BUT George Bush running around blowing things up all over the place in the middle east is not running a risk for escalated conflict?????? .........................ahhhhhhhhh that's right, only the wars with WHITE people count.

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