What Would GOD/JESUS Say To This???

[ChiciB1]

I was trying to get some attention here because I just watched an extremely heart breaking program on TV. It was a documentary called "We Are Dad" and it's about 2 Gay men who have taken HIV positive children into there homes. They loved and nurtured them when NO ONE else wanted them. They gave them a normalcy they would never have gotten. They were throw aways of society and these 2 white homosexual men gave them love, health care, protection, nurturing and EVERYTHING else a child needs.

But Jeb Bush and the 11th Circuit Court have denied them the right to adopt the children who have survived and are now living with them. One in particular is a 15 yr. old African American boy who wants to STAY with HIS family. The ONLY family he has ever known, but the ruling states that he can removed at any time because he's NOT adopted. And can't be ADOPTED by these 2 Gay men because it's against the LAW!

What would God or Jesus say???

I'm a white heterosexual female, have no Gay or Lesbian family members but I'm also a LIBERAL! The ACLU has accepted this case, but given the climate here in Florida I wonder about the chances of them winning.

Here is the web site to check out this information... http://www.lethimstay.com

I can't say I was shocked by what the Fundies, and Evangelicals had to say about this, but I do have to say that this is one reason why I'm NOT A Christian. I believe in Spirituality and karma because if this is what Christianity is all about, then I reject it. I WAS raised in a very strict Catholic home, albeit a wonderful home. I have no trauma to report, my childhood was as normal as can be expected. My parents were good Christians, but it wasn't the only thing that guided our lives. They made us go to church, but we were never taught to push our religious beliefs on others. However, I did leave the church quite some time ago, and I'm fairly sure I won't ever return, but that's a personal decision.

Just my opinion. I'm not up on the Bible and don't know what the Bible has to say about alternative relationships, but I'm one who believes that one does not CHOOSE to be Gay or Lesbian!

Once again, my ire surfaces when I think about these small minded, hateful people who call themselves good Christians, but who will deny decency to ALL people!! I see no Moral Values in their quest to basically wipe out parts of a society because of a Christian belief!

I think I'm done now!

[wryter2000]

1. That's not Christianity, it's Fristianity

I'm an agnostic because I don't believe in the supernatural, but I respect the church I grew up in very much -- the Episcopal church. The more I listen to Bishop John Shelby Spong, the more pride I feel in my former church.

Do not let these assholes convince you this is what Christianity, even in the form of organized religion, is all about.

www.johnshelbyspong.com

[ChiciB1]

3. I Called Myself An Agnostic For Many Years Until

I was told that I wasn't one because of my belief in Spirituality. But that doesn't really cause me much problem.

So you're an agnostic, but you respect the teachings of the Episcopal church? Or as you said you feel pride in your former church. I'm Confused.

[wryter2000]

39. You'd understand if you read some of Spong

There's no belief in any of the myths required. There is a faith in a greater power they(we) refer to as God and the belief that Jesus was somehow in touch with that greater power and was(is) therefore a guide to God. You don't have to believe in virgin birth or literal resurrection. The Bible is an illustrative document but one that was written by men enmeshed in their own cultures of many, many centuries ago.

You do accept the facts of nature as revealed by science. Rejecting the theory of evolution would be seen as silly. The easiest way I can characterize Episcopalian thought in a soundbite is the response to the tsunami. "The tsunami was caused by plate techtonics, but the spirit of God can be seen in the people who are helping the victims."

And you'd never have the arrogance to see other paths to God or enlightenment as inferior to your own.

It's overwhelmingly a belief in a God of love. Sure, there's sin, and there are plenty of things you're not supposed to do. But forgiveness is available, and the ideal is always to approach the teachings of Jesus.

I don't mean any of this to belittle other faiths. I believe most faiths are wonderful. It's just that this is my heritage, and I'm very proud of it.

If anyone's found me preachy here, I do apologize. Just answering a question.

[ChiciB1]

42. No, I Understand... I Think The Episcopalians Have Many

things in common with the Catholic faith. I've tried and have sought the teachings of other religions, but it just didn't fit for me. I've often wondered about it, and even to this day I sometimes "hope" I would get zapped with a REAL answer as to why I can't simply switch back to that commitment I once had.

But no matter, that is my dilemma and I don't have problems with others having their own beliefs.

My PC was on the blink for a while today. Just thought I would check in again. It's only 1:00 AM here, so it's now time to check out!

[Tsiyu]

45. Have you read "Born of a Woman."

One of the favorites on my bookshelf...

[TriMetFan]

2. Also if I remember right....

They won Parents of the Year a couple of years ago. Goes to show you how stupid the right wing is. What they don't understand they hate. But what is there to hate about 2 very good parents?

[ChiciB1]

6. Parents Of The Year???

It wasn't mentioned in the documentary and when I went to the web site it was pretty current. Maybe I didn't read all the attachments. Nice to hear though.

The case is still being contested from what I understand.

[TriMetFan]

11. Yep they sure won it and I just asked my spouse

about this case and she said she thinks the State of Florida took it a way from them after the Neo-Cons bitched about them being gay or something like that.

[ChiciB1]

13. TOTALLY DISGUSTING!!

I live in the Trifecta Triangle of Florida. Never heard this case before, seems it would have blipped here if it was going to blip anywhere!

Must have been busy with some other project!

I really have great admiration for them though!

[TriMetFan]

18. O.k. I got it right now. It was....

'Outstanding Foster Parents of the Year" and it was taken from them.

[ChiciB1]

23. Good Ole Jebby & The Bunch!!!

Anything, anything to get their way!!!

[Midlodemocrat]

4. Believe me, that is not Christianity in action.

Christ was loving. This is pure meanness and spite.

[Not Me]

5. That was the most heartwrencing program I have seen

in a long time.

I live in Florida, and I KNOW that the people here are not that insensitive. But they elect stupid and insensitive leaders who do a poor job. And the Department of Children and Families is a great example.

[ChiciB1]

10. So I'm Late On The Uptake Here....

when did YOU see it?? I have a Dish and rarely watch the regular channels, so perhaps I'm behind the times. It just made me terribly upset.

[JuniperLea]

7. Jesus would

help that family. He was a friend to the down-trodden and saved those being held in judgment by others. You know, whores and such. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Do not judge others. We were given free will by God and now some hold themselves above God and want to take that away.

I was raised Christian... now I'm a born again Agnostic:) Hypocrisy does that to a person.

[w8liftinglady]

25. Great post...nt

[ChiciB1]

28. I See Your Dream Catcher... Have A Few Myself!

This I Can Understand!

[JuniperLea]

30. i have several too

thank 'god' i didn't loose my spirituality along with my faith:)

[ChiciB1]

40. Had Trouble Getting Connected This Afternoon....

We had a rain storm here in Florida, but that doesn't usuallu cause much problem. Don't know what happened, but as with you I agree. My Spirituality is what keeps me grounded, in many many ways!

I've been to several Pow Wows around here, but would LOVE to go to a really big one someday.

[faithnotgreed]

37. as someone who loves Christ i completely understand everything youve

said here

i often think that i dont "blame" people a BIT if they dont or no longer believe. its no wonder with what is perpetrated in "Gods name"

God is love. right on friend...
peace

[JuniperLea]

38. glad you get it and are not offended

i especially hate how people blow up abortion clinics in the name of god. it all boils down to the free will god gave us. no one on earth has the right to take that away from us. no one has a right to manipulate laws to incorporate god's laws. only god has the right to enforce his own laws.

how silly all these fools must look to god. all these yahoos are giving god a bad name.

i would love to believe in god as i did as a child. i guess all of these so called christians have bore witness to their faith with unspeakable acts and that leaves a bad taste so foul i can't bring myself to join their ranks.

[TyeDye75]

8. This bit is heartbreaking

Every few weeks, a letter comes from the state, giving an update on the status of finding another family to adopt Bert. Because he no longer tests positive for HIV and is under the age of 14, Bert is deemed "adoptable."

these two guys took the kid in when no one else would and now that they've seen him through the worst, he is deemed 'adoptable' and they want to take him away.

How can anyone think that is the right, or the Christian thing to do.

[MsTryska]

35. He's a 14 year old black boy who once had HIV

he's never leaving his foster parents.


thanks god for small miracles.

[aaronnyc]

9. I have no idea what God/Jesus would say

Some parts of the Bible appear to be quite "liberal", while other parts (especially in the old testament), seem to approve of revenge killings, war, and genocide. It really all depends on how someone chooses to interpret it.

I am not going to tell you that a true interpretation of Christianity reveals that the religion is all about either liberal or conservative values. There is no absolute interpretation of the Bible. I think that both sides should stop defending their political positions, by saying that God is on their side. And if a God does exist, I would certainly hope that he stays "above the fray" of partisan politics.

[sam sarrha]

16. the Old Testament isnt Christianity. it's there to keep the New Testament

from being mistaken for Buddhism.

[aaronnyc]

24. Christians are supposed to believe both books

Isn't the guy who's casting plagues on entire populations of children in the Old Testament supposed to be Jesus' father (aka God)? Christian fundamentalists certainly talk a lot about the Ten Commandments and Creationism - both of which come from the Old Testament.
Why do you say, "it's there to keep the New Testament from being mistaken for Buddhism?"

[sam sarrha]

26. if you read only Jesus and not Pauls comentary.. it is Buddhism

Jesus liven on the Old Silk Road, Buddhism had been around for 500 years.. it had plenty of time to get to jesus. the Love and compassion taught by jesus is Buddhism.. I am a Buddhist.

The love and compassion, turning the cheak.. forgiving enemies.. that is not what the jews at the time were into.. The god of Jesus was not the god of his father and the Old Testiment has NOTHING to do with what Jesus taught..

it is a tagalong to maintain control of the movement by the power broakers of the day.

[JuniperLea]

29. hahaha!

very funny:)

the text could be, but i'm betting xtians don't cotton to buddhists:) and i bet the xtians are too brainwashed to realize that their condemation will come back at them.

if the rapture turns out to be true, there will be so few gone we won't even miss them!

[sam sarrha]

33. I was hoping for a Big Rapture..git rid of them, would help the job market

[JuniperLea]

34. hahaha! you're killing me!

great screan name, btw. i almost used 'moksha' myself:)

[rkc3]

12. The pre-9/11 Jesus would have accepted this couple's outpouring of love

for society's less fortunate as it is grounded in his teachings.

However, the post-9/11 Jesus would have these abominations burned at the stake for heresy. He's not been happy since the Muslims attacked His favored land.

[sam sarrha]

14. the god of Jesus was not the god of his father, that god would have killed

homosexuals... and left the children to the fate of those non homosexuals around them..

there is a BIG difference between the god of Jesus.. there was love and forgiveness, guidance.. the god of his father was a god of absolute law interpreted by chosen men. in the old book Homosexuals were to be put to death along with disrespectful children..etc... and any wife, son, friend or neighbor who transgressed the law.. that required a just and righteous.. 'stoning to death'.

I feel that Jesus lived right on the Old Silk Road... and Buddhism had been around for 500 years.. and came down the silk road and inspired Jesus somehow.. what Jesus teaches is Buddhism.

what the cranky control freak Paul taught was his misunderstanding of Jesus teachings... one must consider Paul's background when he had his revelation... just like Bu$h.. he didn't get the revaluation quite right. or Epiphany as the case may be.. which could be a big difference

[MindPilot]

15. Christians want people to suffer

I'm not sure what the answer to the hypothetical what would god/Jesus do question is. But it is patently clear that Christians enjoy seeing others suffer. That's why they keep brain-dead people alive, deny medication to those in pain, make rape victims have the baby and get all giddy at the idea of bombing the fuck out of some defenseless country. This is just another action by the Christians in Charge to make sure that there is enough pain in the world.

Then they whine about being persecuted. :grr:

[sam sarrha]

17. that is not Christianity.. that is the Christian Fellowship types..LINK>

http://www.insider-magazine.com/ChristianMafia a product of Leo Strauss...

and the Leo Strauss types;
http://www.religioustolerance.org/reconstr.htm
and
http"//www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2003/cr071003.htm

[MindPilot]

20. from the outside looking in

If one is not Christian, there is no good way to determine if there is a difference. When Fred Phelps says "God hates fags" I have no choice but to believe him because he's basing that on the biblical tale wherein the God of love and mercy offs an entire city because of its homosexual population. I have no way of knowing that ol' Fred is not a "real" Christian because he draws his beliefs from the front half of the book. To me religious belief is an all or nothing deal, if you are going to accept a particular belief system as reality, then you have to take everything that's in the book. To pick and choose is intellectually dishonest.

[sam sarrha]

27. that is why i am a Buddhist,,.. but you have the anti Modernism confused

with rational thought.. a rational person seeks reason often where it is not.. but unreasonable people are in control of a teaching and hide its pure heart.

[dcfirefighter]

31. it's my understanding

that sodom and gommorrah weren't destroyed b/c of homosexuality per se, but because of homosexual rape and inhospitability.

[ChiciB1]

21. WOW.... Great Links!

Didn't read word for word, but I will. Thanks for the info.

Buddhism seems to make me feel more comfortable in some way. I've only touched on the fringes.

[BMG]

19. Id just leave the country if I were them.

Canada is supposed to be doing pretty well these days.

Better than having to put up with stupid insane christian fundies.

[paula777]

22. Canada has immigration laws too you know - there criteria is that you are

finanically sound (well off) or you can prove you have employement upon arrival. These men need HIV medicine for thier kids - that the state or feds supply. How do you know Canada would just accept a needy family like that, now matter how big of angels they are?

[GeekMonkey]

32. if there was a god, he'd smite those that discriminate

but, alas, there isnt one, so discrimination and hate still rule the roost

[JohnnyBoots]

36. In the true sense of Christianity these men are

Christians, the bible has had so many editors, but i seem to remember Jesus taking in the poor, the sick, and the unwanted; remember all those lepers. If I can't buy these two guys a couple of beers in the gay bar in heaven around the corner from the Cosmic Irish Pub, then I'm not too sure I want to go there any way. What's the over / under when these kids get taken away---Another Schiavo case????

[lonestarnot]

41. It would be a disgrace to remove these children!

[DanCa]

43. My god doesn't descriminate

He loves everyone regardless of race and orientation and stance on reproductive issues. Let us please drop the notion that "republicans" worship Jesus Christ. There's is a god of false idols, war, riches and madness.

[Tsiyu]

44. These two guys are awesome

I heard about them a few years back. They are both the kindest souls and they really care about those kids.

Fundies are fucking morons. Back when AIDS first hit, i was working in a children's hospital. I won't tell you all the ugly things that people like Atlanta's DICK( head) Williams said we should do with AIDS victims.

(Yeah, that's right, Mr. Williams. I'm that "hippy bitch" who called you a pompous ass on the front steps of WSB's plantation. I had help - some friends who told me you were there and to hurry my ass down cuz they hated what you said about AIDS victims, too- and I did.)


If there truly is a Jesus, he's not talkin.' But if he meant everything he supposedly said, these two guys are going to immortality and all the homophobes are going straight to that place where the worm don't die....