Brain-dead woman kept alive for fetus

[friesianrider]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8243792/

BRAIN-DEAD WOMAN KEPT ALIVE FOR FETUS
Cancer patient on respirator for survival of 21-week-old fetus

ARLINGTON, Va. - A brain-dead woman is being kept on life support in hopes that her 21-week-old fetus survives, and the woman’s husband said he is certain that’s what she would have wanted.

Jason Torres said doctors believe the fetus could have a chance if Susan Torres lives another month and her cancer stays away from her uterus.

He said he decided to keep his wife on life support when doctors at Virginia Hospital Center offered him the chance to disconnect the machines after concluding she would not recover.

<snip>

Thoughts on this?

[cynatnite]

1. He's her husband and as such can make the decision

I do hope the baby survives and comes to know how hard his/her parents fought for him/her.

[ComerPerro]

58. That's what I'm thinking. Unless she left something that states otherwise

I mean, my position in the Schaivo case was pretty similar. He was the husband, it was his decision, and he was acting on what he said was her intentions.

[Crunchy Frog]

2. It's what I would want if I were in that situation.

Especially if there was a husband around who wanted the baby. It's not like she's being kept on life support indefinitely. I hope that it's what she wanted.

[friesianrider]

3. I guess I would, too...

Tough to say - it's so difficult to know with so many factors involved.

[lenidog]

9. You are write its a very tough call on this one

there are so many factors to look at and some missing info that would help me make this call.

[CC]

4. I've heard the husband

interviewed. He is sure it is what she would wanted. I know I would want it were I in her place. He has also struggled with it and struggled with what to tell their son and their future child. I would hope people would leave him and the family alone to deal with things as they feel is the best for them.


Edited to add- Frist, Delay, Blivet*, et all....stay the F away. The family does NOT need your warped selves trying to profit from their grief.

[REP]

5. Disgusting

A corpse being used as an incubator. Imagine knowing that you were born out of an animated corpse; that your mother's body was used in such a despicable way, with no respect for her as a person - just a lump of meat that can grow a baby. No doubt this is how many see women, and would like us to be.

Her cancer is growing as well; she has a form of melanoma that can cross the placental barrier and attack the fetus.

[cynatnite]

12. If her husband thinks it's what she would want, why not?

There is a chance it may not work, but also a chance that it could.

If he took her off life support and let both her and the baby go, then it's his right.

She can't make the choice so it goes to her husband. He has as much right to make this choice as does your next of kin should you ever be in such a tragic position.

[REP]

16. The OP Asked For Thoughts

Mine thoughts are that keeping a corpse hooked up to act as an incubator for a then-17 week old fetus is disgusting. Not only disgusting, but foolish, as the cancer has a good chance of attacking the fetus. The body is being treated for pneumonia, 104F fever and flucuating blood pressure - none of that can be good for the development of the fetus.

[lenidog]

13. As I said to another poster there is to little info to decide this matter

as of yet to make any condemnations. As to your other point there are a lot of strange and sometimes distasteful ways to be born these days because medical science has advanced so far.

[REP]

17. There's Plenty Of Information

I've been following this story weeks, as I do any story about women as incubators.

[yvr girl]

45. It's what I'd want

Most mothers (or mothers to be) would do anything for their baby to survive. I've know people who put off chemo until after their baby was born.

If there was a chance my baby could survive, I'd want it taken. That child will be her final legacy.

[Atalanta]

38. But it is you...

Who have suddenly reduced her to "a lump of meat'. Not her, not her husband or doctors. Your view of her like this is simply that - your view.

This child may not have any issues with the situation of it's birth, it may have issues similar to those whose mothers died during childbirth.

But your views are not the child's.(ie that it was born from an animated corpse")

And you are lumping a unique situation with an unrelated, unsubstantianted generalization; "No doubt this is how many see women, and would like us to be".

Name one person you know personally that would rather see women dead and producing babies (an oxymoron to be sure).

Would you think it more appropriate if the fetus was removed from the woman and put on life support and an incubator - or would you then be even more rude and say that the child wasn't even born of a human, but incubated by machines?

Or are you suggesting the fetus die with the mother? If so where is your line? Should the baby die if the mother dies during birth? Should the baby (or fetus if that is the term you prefer) live or die if the mother dies at 8 months pregnant, what about 7 months, or 6 months?

It is so easy to pass judgement when it's not you - isn't it.

[seabeyond]

52. with no respect for her.......... i totally have respect for her

only you are creating this of her. i dont think it is horrible at all. the respect comes in respecting the wishes of the individual. i will hope that this will be successfull and the baby will be able to survive and be healthy, and this woman will have created this being, to be with father in time of loss, always a part of this woman who graced this earth, loved this man, and this baby she was creating.

doesnt have to be ugly. only if we as individuals want it to be ugly for our own experience

[BeTheChange]

63. Wow...

just wow...

[nonconformist]

6. If it's what her husband says she would want, and what he wants

I don't see any problems with it.

Honestly, it's what I would want too.

[zann725]

7. No. These stories bother me. Reducing Women to mere Incubators.

This is like Stepford Wife taken to the Nth degree!! As a woman, I'm always offended by these stories. And there have been others through the years.
What would the world think if a Wife kept her Husband on "life support" until her kids were all raised and through college, and his Golden Parachute/Pension kicked in...leaving her financially comfortable for life? If Woman as a mere Incubator doesn't offend anyone, why should Man as a mere lifeless "money-earner"/ THING...lying there until his only "purpose" in Life (to serve Woman) was fulfilled?
Both are really the same...and equally as offensive. No one, or nothing should be reduced to an Incubator-THING...ever.

[nonconformist]

8. If it's what she would have wanted, who are we to say it's wrong?

Is it offensive for a terminally ill man's sperm to be banked by his wife so that she can have his child after he passes?

[REP]

14. Yes, It Is

[Warren DeMontague]

21. Thanks for clearing that up, O wise one.

From now on all requests will be submitted to you- in triplicate.

[REP]

24. That'd Make Things A Lot Easier

Next time I'm asked a question, should I just ask you what my opinion is?

[Warren DeMontague]

26. Well, it might make it more fun if you could elucidate your answers a bit.

So--- it's just plain wrong for a dying person to bank their sperm?

Even if that's their deepest wish and the last shared thing they can do with the person they love? Wow. How compassionate of you. Talk about adding insult to injury.

[REP]

30. Wowie Zowie What A Compelling Argument!

Yes, just really really wanting something is reason enough to do it, damn the consequences. You've convinced me with your overpowering logic!

[Warren DeMontague]

44. You haven't provided a single solitary argument against.

Have you?

Okay, since you won't play- allow me. Is it "wrong" for lesbian couples to have a baby with the sperm of a man who never intends to be a part of the baby's life? Is it "wrong" for a single mother to have a baby with no father? Is it "wrong" for people to use donated sperm, period?

...

Your serve.

[lenidog]

10. I think there is too little info on the matter to make sweeping

generalizations and condemnations as of yet.

[renate]

11. It's what I would want,

definitely. If my body and brain were useless, I wouldn't want to be kept alive just for the fun of it, but some good can come of her being kept on life support for a finite time. Some good to her, that is--she wanted to have this child.

I can understand why those grossed out, like I was, by the Terri Schiavo media circus would see parallels between that case and this, but this woman presumably wanted to be a mother to this second child; this is the closest she'll be able to get, and depriving her, or her spirit, of that joy would be a tragedy on top of a tragedy.

[jbnow]

15. As a mom

I can imagine the desire to "save my baby". A natural instinct. It's easy to believe it would be what she would want.

It would be disgusting if he kept her alive to keep impregnating her and getting children. But if this was a wanted child it is an act of love, to let her child, their child, have a chance for life.

[Biased Liberal Media]

18. I'm a mom and I would want everything possible to be done

to save my child's life. That's a natural instinct, I believe.

However, I can understand what you are saying. It's a toss up for me.

[Warren DeMontague]

22. So I take it you're opposed to organ donation, too?

I guess you're more qualified to decide what to do with this woman's body than she is, or at least than her husband- who is the person in the legal position to carry out her wishes- is.

Wow, Deja Vu--- Where have I heard that before?

See, from where *I* sit, it's MY god-damn body. If I want to take care of it, eat greasy food, fill it with pot smoke, go jogging, pose nude for porno mags, have hot steamy hetero or homosexual sex with another consenting adult... as long as my freedom doesn't impinge on other people's, it's my body and my business. That's my position.

And when I'm walking down Michigan Ave. and I get hit in the head by a high speed penguin that someone has dropped from the observation deck of the John Hancock building, I don't want you, or Randall Terry, or Tom DeLay deciding what to do with my body or organs or life support. I trust my wife with that decision, that's why I married her and not any of those other people.

So, yes, if a husband WANTED to be kept alive as some kind of "thing" until his pension kicked in, it's not really any of my concern.

[REP]

23. This Has Nothing To Do With Voluntary Organ Donation

But that is a lovely straw man you've built to play with.

The thing is, this woman did not leave any instructions on whether her body was to be kept alive to be used as an inucbator for a NON-viable (17-week) fetus. She is dead - nobody debates that, not even her super-devout Catholic parents. Her body is being used by someone else - her husband - to fulfill HIS wishes. That's the difference between you eating greasy food and whoring yourself out and this case.

[Warren DeMontague]

28. Really. And the difference between the situation where Terri Schiavo

didn't leave any written instructions and this is... what?

And why are YOU more qualified than her husband (whom you have already deduced -seemingly by magic- is an evil, manipulative bastard) to decide who wants, wanted, or is using her-- and for what? Really. I'm curious.

[REP]

29. I Read What He's Said

It's an amazing little thing called "research." You should try it sometime.

[Warren DeMontague]

46. Okay, after doing some of this "research" you speak of...

I've ascertained that he's Catholic, but seeing as I'm one of the people who gets slammed for 'anti-religious bigotry' because I dare to wonder aloud why belief in the Easter Bunny is any less logical than belief in the Father, Son & H.G. I'm going to make a very public point, here, of not holding it against the guy.

He also claims that this is what his wife wanted. So what do we know, in terms of real, actual facts? She was pregnant, on purpose, which means that prior to her sudden, debilitating stroke, she wanted to have a baby.

Therefore, is it such a craaaaazy stretch to believe that, when her husband -who, despite the fact that you apparently know he's an evil bastard, she decided to love, marry and stay with- says "this is what she would want", maybe he knows what he's talking about? Is it worth going against her wishes to make a point?

And I'm not even sure what point it is you seem to want to make, because your responses are generally limited to one-line, snarky comments.

Please. If you have some link or evidence backing up your assertions, I'm all ears.

[Karenina]

54. I wish this was not splashed in headlines

for the consumption of Dumbköpfen.

I wish for this family what they wish for themselves.

[Warren DeMontague]

61. I don't think this should be used as some kind of banner case for the

so-called "pro-life" movement, that's for sure.

Sounds to me like a clear exercise in choice.

[seabeyond]

so as a female, a mother, having had two, if i were to chose

to stay on life support to give this baby a life and to my husband and to the other two children,........it would bother you?

what business would it be of yours. no one reduced me to anything. i made a choice.

[Warren DeMontague]

19. As someone who believes in near total personal physical autonomy

if this was her decision, more power to her.

if we can argue that Michael Schiavo has the right and duty to carry out Terri's wishes, why is this situation so drastically different?

I'm astounded that people here are so outraged by this - what, people only have control over their own bodies when they do things with them we approve of, or that gel with our agenda?

Hmmm. Where have I heard that before.

[roguevalley]

20. very very sad family. he's doing what he believes she wanted too

and I pray for both of them.

[ComerPerro]

59. agree

[ngGale]

25. This is one baby I'm praying for...

being a mother, I'm sure she would her baby to live. She won't deliver, they will C-Section - my daughter had one at 26 weeks.
It was rough going, but he's fine now. The baby will also give the father and son something to keep going, hope. I'm going to keep an eye on this story and hope for the best.

[pacifictiger]

27. What a sad case.

I think this is possibly one of the few cases where prolonging life is the right thing to do. However, the rightness of that decision will will only be really known after the baby is born. Hopefully healthy, and not a reminder that sometimes nature does know best.

[REP]

32. There Is No "Prolonging Life"

There is no debate - this woman died in May. They are keeping her corpse on a respirator.

"He and Susan had never talked about what to do in such circumstances."

"Since 1977, at least nine comatose women have given birth in the USA, according to research by the University of Connecticut's medical center. Women with aggressive melanoma, the skin cancer that spread to Susan's brain, have borne children in reported cases in the USA, the United Kingdom and Canada, though not all survived.

Susan's doctors tell Torres they know of no cases in which a brain-dead mother with melanoma has delivered a child, he says."
http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20050616/1a_cover16.art.htm

[VOX]

31. If this is what she wanted, and if he as her husband wants it, too...

Then, in a way, it honors her life to have this baby to come into the world.

I have only good wishes and thoughts for this family.

[REP]

33. It's What HE Wants; They'd Never Discussed It

http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20050616/1a_cover16.art.htm

[theboss]

36. I doubt this is ever discussed

Couples may discuss end of life decisions, but they usually don't address every possible scenario. And this is a tragic yet strange scenario.

That's why we appoint guardians. To make decisions when we need to fill in the gaps.

[Minstrel Boy]

40. Can you imagine an expectant mother who would want otherwise?

If you can, what kind of a mother did she make?

[LisaL]

43. He knew she wanted the baby.

[Warren DeMontague]

48. You have any kids?

...Just wonderin'.

[NMMNG]

34. It is what I would want

If I had chosen to become pregnant and had carried a child for all those months, but suffered Mrs. Torres' fate I would want to be on life support until the baby could be safely delivered. Then I would want to be removed from the life support so I could die peacefully.

[American in Asia]

35. Me too...

And while my husband and I haven't specifically discussed such an eventuality, he knows me better than anyone, and can certainly speak with great authority about how I would have wanted to do anything to save our child. Not having a discussion to me doesn't strip him of the right to speak on her behalf now that she can't.

[Deja Q]

37. I must agree. Tragic, but the fetus is part of her. Children are an

extension of one's parents. It's our bizarre way of thinking we're immortal, in a sense.

But biologically, it's part of her.

Her faculties may be toast but if her body can sustain her child, she must be kept alive.

[Minstrel Boy]

39. Why should this be anyone else's business?

Abortion is a private affair. So should this be.

[dogday]

41. Why shouldn't some good come from this?

With the sadness of the Mother's condition, it would be the only choice one could make...

[Walt Starr]

42. I support this husband's decision

just like I supported Michael Shiavo's decision.

[in_cog_ni_to]

47. It's her husband's decision and It's his decision. n/t

[FlaGranny]

49. Totally blows my mind

that anyone could think this was wrong or immoral. There is ONE person on earth who has the right to make the decision. That person has - and it is no one else's business.

Sometimes I think some arguments are clouded by bad personal experiences with the opposite sex, and I truly feel bad for those people. I have been blessed with a good relationship and I trust my husband with my life and my children's lives. Why in the world would anyone marry someone they would not trust with life and death decisions? No wonder there are so many divorces if that's what people are doing.

[Warren DeMontague]

50. It's the old "I'm Pro-Choice... Just as long as--

I agree with the choice."

Unfortunately, it seems there are plenty of people who subscribe to that outlook. Can't see the forest for the AGENDA.

Me? I'm pro-choice, period. And if we designate spouses as the people charged with making these calls, why is there supposed to all of a sudden be an exception when some people find the call objectionable, be the spouse Michael Schiavo-- or this guy?

[seabeyond]

55. I trust my husband with my life and my children's lives.

hear hear. gosh, i would not want anyone but hubby to make these choices. i know what he wants, he knows me. and my family, they would so respect his decisions. they would all agree, they would be united.

[seabeyond]

51. i would want to be kept alive to give birth, then allowed to die

i would imagine they have discussed it. i will trust in the husbands decision. i see nothing wrong with this. i would die for my child, i would certainly stay alive for my baby too

[Midlodemocrat]

53. As a mom, I would totally want this.

I would want the baby to live to bring my husband some joy in the face of an unspeakable tragedy.

My SIL died 16 months after giving birth to her first child. I think my brother would be on the rooftop of a very tall building without that precious baby to care for. Sure, it is hard, but she is a living, breathing reminder of the love they shared.

[seabeyond]

57. i lost my mom unexpectedly with a newborn and 2 yr old

those children where such a blessing at such a sad sad time. they kept the smile for me, the continually allowed me to feel love. i have always seen it as a blessing to have little babies, learning life, at that time

[donheld]

56. I think this is a wonderful story

I think she would be proud to do this.

[SammyWinstonJack]

60. I would want my husband to do the same if there was a chance

for our baby would survive. I'm sure that he knows what his wife would have wanted. Why should be lose both his wife and his baby?

[fujiyama]

62. I don't think

this is very difficult.

There is no dispute as to whether to terminate life support. If the husband claims this is what she wanted, and if the child has a chance in surviving, then I see nothing at all wrong.

[Pushed To The Left]

64. If it's what she would have wanted

I don't have a problem with it at all. If she is brain-dead, then she is not going through any physical pain.