when the world looks at bush, they see us.

[mopaul]

god, the horror of that statement. but it's true, when the world sees bush speaking and aping, they see america.

he is our face to the world, in all his glory. he is america's face.

fuck

[KlatooBNikto]

1. I don't think so. The average European or Asian is so well read and

knowledgeable about us, no one mistakes this chimp for an average American.Rest assured. They are a lot better than we are.

[Lin]

4. may you be right- it's my only hope that we arent seen

as yahoo cowboys :-(

[MadHound]

6. I have to agree

Most Europeans I've met here and abroad are much more discerning than your average American. Whereas your typical American thinks of a country such as Russia, they will usually focus on the leader, like Putin as the face of Russia, Europeans are quite well informed and educated to realize that there is a difference between who is in power, and what the populace is like. Thank god, for then we would truly be screwed.

[justinsb]

7. True, but

they also know or believe that the majority of Americans, or nearly a majority voted for * . Don't get me wrong, they can differentiate between different types of people, but there are also alot of tourists who don't help the reputation...

"Do they sell hot dogs in the Louvre?"

even the US soldiers in Europe are "Over sexed, overpaid and over here".

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

2. Well, that expensive Ivy League education must be good for SOMETHING...

...er...never mind.

:evilgrin:

[marmar]

3. Fuck is right...

That's why in my trip to Europe last month, I eagerly engaged in political discussions so I could show Europeans (Germans, Danes and French on this trip) how much I agreed with them. I had some great discussions with people, including a father and son at a restaurant in Paris. They were very happy to meet Americans who agreed that Bush was a total disaster, and who didn't just accept the government line on everything. The general perception in Europe, I think anyway, is that Americans are sheep who believe everything that's fed to them.

[justinsb]

5. Unfortunately there is some truth to that

most people, deep down, know there is a difference and that he doesn't speak for everyone but...it went something like this, in the eyes of many anyway

- Bush runs for office, world laughs at the election fiasco that followed and is somewhat shocked when Bush takes office

- 9/11 happens and the world morns, offers support and aid, agrees to help w/ Afghanistan

- "With us or against us speech" world gets a bit nervous

- "Axis of evil speech" - world gets very nervous

- Build up to Iraq - world protests, international leaders try to dissuade and discourage Bush, ordinary citizens take the the streets in the millions to object. Most people feel sorry for Americans because their president has obviously lost his mind.

- Bush reelected (I know, I know black box voting etc, but from the outside looking in Bush gets reelected) world shudders, wonders what the hell is going on in the US, starts stocking up on canned goods. Websites like marryanamerican pop up to try to help the good ones to leave.

So, yeah - people know deep down that there are still good people in the US, but Bush has the controls to the machine and around the planet people are praying for the machine to break down, for the wheels to come off and for the whole thing to be recycled and made into plowshares

[julianer]

10. That is an excellent

summary.

I think most of us recognise that Bush is not representative of all Americans. Most of us have met a lot of decent Americans and the other sort don't travel much, it seems.

Those among us who don't care about politics see America as an amalgam of 'Friends','Die Hard', Paris Hilton, and Oprah.

So your image isn't trashed abroad. However, people wouldn't piss on Bush if he was on fire.

Those French bastards though...

[Spider Jerusalem]

8. You know, that's one of the reasons I loathe Bush so much.

He represents everything evil, vicious, and ugly in the American national character. Smugly arrogant, holier-than-thou and self-righteous, wilfully ignorant, casually xenophobic, spoiled, greedy...Bush is the embodiment of everything nasty, base and vile about America, the ever-present shadow that was always there behind the good and now threatens to eclipse it. In a strange way, he IS America...the dark Hyde to the Jekyll we like to tell ourselves we are.

[DaveJ]

9. They've ever had much respect for us....

From the beginning they've thought of us as social rejects who were inferior in many aspects. Although the problem with * is not as large to them in comparison to the fascist dictators who've ruled them in the past, as you said, * is a horrible individual to represent us to the world. He is an embarrassment.

[julianer]

11. No that's not right

I've never heard anyone say Americans are social rejects. The Aussies, yes :-) :-) , but not Americans.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

12. I'd tend to disagree.

I live in the UK now, and people certainly don't identify me with Bush. (On the other hand, I do have hippie hair.)

What I do get a lot of is "Apologies in advance for this, but <rant about bush>"

I keep telling them they don't have to apologize, but they always do.

Oh, and british girls love American men, in case you needed some further stimulus to leave the country. (I can only assume the same holds true for women.)

The four greatest words in the English language are "I love your accent!"

[DaveJ]

13. I'n just goin' by what Philippe says...

Philippe Roger in "L'Ennemi americain", here's an excerpt of a review:


Scholars of the French Enlightenment considered American plant and
animal life degenerate, inferior to that in Europe. Children born in
the New World were incapable of prolonged thought. Venereal disease
had its home there. At the same time as the creation of the United
States, and while a part of fashionable Paris was titillated by the
Yankee insurgents, Roger writes, by 1778 in France a "a globally
negative image of America was anchored in the literate public."

[Karenina]

14. Your source material is errraaa...

just a t-a-d dated. :eyes:

[DaveJ]

15. 227 years? Nah

Scholars like Philippe have put much more thought into these matters than I have. I don't want to keep quoting him. I believe he is explaining the origin of their attitude, which still persists, and effects all of Europe.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

18. Yeah, but they said that about everybody. n/t

[tenshi816]

19. Very true, what you said, all of it.

I'm in the UK too. Everything you said is exactly the way it is for me - well, except for the fact that I'm female.

I do find, though, that when I meet new people I'm the one who usually starts the Bush rant, which, over here, is like preaching to the choir. I've never met one person who likes him, not one. I don't think people tend to be as obsessed about him as I am though!

Are you living in the UK because of your job? Or are you a student? Or some combination thereof?

[lectrobyte]

16. You know that feeling when you're trying to unstop your toilet with

a plunger, and a big soupy splash hits you in the face and you're not sure if you got your mouth closed in time? That's the feeling I get when I think of the world seeing Bush as America.

[mopaul]

17. or when your drunken brother in law throws up on the wedding cake

yeah, i know that feeling