"Suddenly Sick: The Hidden Big Business behind Your Doctor's Diagnosis"

[lostnfound]

The Seattle Times is running an excellent series of articles on how the drug industry creates new patients for itself by influencing the standards for various diseases or even "creating" new diseases. It is truly impressive.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/news/health/suddenlysick/

What can go wrong when the drug industry influences what constitutes disease, who has it, and how it should be treated.
1: New blood-pressure guidelines pay off — for drug companies (Hypertension)
2: Rush toward new weight-loss drugs tramples patients' health
3: Disease expands through marriage of marketing and machines
4: Deep-vein thrombosis:How marketing fuels appetite for new drugs
5: Female sexual dysfunction: Experts backed by industry try to create a disease

Nice graphics, too.
"Change a number, create a patient"

[atommom]

1. Very thought-provoking! But I don't see anything changing

as long as we have our current administration.

[Deja Q]

2. Or any that supports the status quo

A paradigm shift, one that is pro-person rather than pro-production/pro-profit, is necessary.

Good luck.

[sui generis]

3. the standards thresholds for high blood pressure, cholesterol levels

triglycerides, etc. etc. have all become much narrower in the past 10 years.

Big Pharma wants EVERYONE on statins, MAO's, blood pressure meds, and stomach and explosive diarrhea meds from taking all the other meds, because, well quite, that's why they're in business. To sell drugs.

[REP]

4. The Last Two Might Be a Little Valid

While women can't be impotent, they can have sexual dysfunction, and that's been ignored for ever. Deep venous thrombosis can kill, and the preventatives available now kind of suck (diuretics and super-unattractive compression stockings).

I have been suspicious in the changing guidelines for diabetes, hypertension and BMI. Diabetes is a gold mine for drug companies; they want everyone on Metformin, even though it may not be the most appropriate drug. The test strips cost a fortune and there's a whole 'diabetic accessory' sector. Same with statins; they're a money-maker and while they may be helpful for ome, I doubt someone with a total cholesterol of 203 really needs to be on one for life.

[barb162]

5. I love outing of the pharmaceutical industry

[earth mom]

7. Me too!

I find it amazing that people don't see the pharmaceutical industry for the charlatans they are. Sure many medicines have saved lives and that's great, but often what these pharma giants do reminds me of old time Quack Medicine. I mean c'mon now, side effects of a drug should NOT be worse than the illness that prompted taking the drug in the first place!

It's obvious that these bastards want us all on some sort of pill 24/7. Time for the public to wake the hell up and see the extent of which they are being deceived in the name of greed. :grr:

[barb162]

12. Every time I go to the doctor there are usually a few drug sales

people there waiting to get in. Every woman I know has been diagnosed with the pre osteoporosis condition. What was once "natural" is now an illness

[AllyCat]

41. Saw the same thing at my first prenatal appointment

When I walked out of the office, there were two guys in suits with large briefcases waiting. That's weird at an all-women's clinic. Tucked the experience into things that make me go, "hmmmm....".

While I was in there, the doc started talking to me about getting on a statin drug (I'm pregnant, fercripessake!). My sister and I are complete vegetarians and we exercise, yet are constantly plagued by cholesterol above 240. It's familial hyperlipidemia to be precise. We all have it. And aside from one family member who was overweight and finally succumbed to a stroke at age 86, none of us have had any other problems.

I see no reason to take any of those drugs. I'm perfectly healthy otherwise. But the drug companies really want us all on something. I'm one of the anomolies I guess. I don't take anything. No aspirin, no sinus meds, absolutely no prescription drugs, nada. They need to get my type under their thumbs.

[Conservativesux]

43. Statins are very dangerous drugs. The side-effects have been covered up

for years as with many other medications that can do more harm then good in many people.

Like you, I have high blood cholesterol, as do most of my family and we dont get strokes or heart attacks, yet the docs still want me to take a statin drug, that can do permenant damage to my kidneys, liver or muscles.

No way in hell thats going to happpen.

[getmeouttahere]

8. Amen....this is just another example

of capitalism run amok. Decimating our regulatory commissions must be high on BushCo's to-do list

[ScamUSA.Com]

37. same here

Do you have any good resources for that?

I recently added a Modern Medicine: Drug Dealers topic to my website.

[wicket]

6. They got me under the new definition of hypertension

Now I'm taking meds for it, grrrrr....

[Sadie5]

9. I agree, but

I have had HBP for three years or so. I controlled it with diet and exercise. It suddenly jumped to 210/105 and I had to go on meds. That the docs seem to be pill pushing these days is obvious though. Lilly has repackaged their drug failures and are using them for other illnesses which is disgusting. Anymore it is hard to tell the difference between legit illnesses, and manufactured illnesses.

[LizW]

10. and me under the new cholesterol limits

Fortunately not high enough for the Dr. to suggest meds yet.

Not that I would take them anyway. If the dietary changes I'm making don't make a difference, then tough cookies. I have NO family history of heart disease, so I'm going with nature on this one.

[TX-RAT]

17. Ya gotta watch them.

My doctor and i just went round and round over my blood pressure. I initially went in for a lump on the thyroid. Well the first thing the nurse wants is my BP and weight, the weight was fine, but the BP was 142/82. As soon as the doc seen that he put me on BP meds, within 1 week i passed out at my desk, while sitting down. Over the next few weeks i passed out 2 more times. I came off the golf course one day feeling so bad i couldn't continue, while driving home i was having difficulty seeing. When i got home my BP was 70/50. Thats when i decided to stop the BP meds completely. Since then my BP runs 130/75 on average. I told the doc if i continue to pass out, I'll go back on meds, otherwise we're not touching it.

6-months and no problems.
Anybody who thinks doctors are in it for anything other than the money are only fooling themselves. It's all for the money.

By the way.
The lump on the Throid, came back positve for Papillary Cancer, had it removed, have already competed my radiation treatments and every things fine. Just gonna be on thyroid meds the rest of my life.

[barb162]

19. did you stop the b.p. meds cold turkey or gradually

[TX-RAT]

23. Cold turkey

I'm sure i wasn't suppose to do it that way, but it didn't matter to me, ( i definitely don't recommend anybody else doing the same )after seeing my BP drop so low i wasn't taking anymore chances. So far theres been no problems and my BP's doing fine.

[Blue Diadem]

27. they got my son and hubby too

both are in the 140/90 range. I'm still wondering what happens when someone buys life insurance now with the new standards..does it mean higher premiums?

[wicket]

50. I'm in that same range too

And I believe it means higher premiums :(

[flordehinojos]

11. now there is even a newer definition for diabetes.

>91.

a fasting blood sugar level greater than 91 = diabetes!

[barb162]

14. oh, mine is 92, just had it tested 2 weeks ago. I better get insulin

and some needles!!!

They keep redefining this shit down so that just about noone can be the "new normal" without drugs. I was watching some program about a year ago and it was on the new cholesterol numbers and most healthy people were not able to meet the new numbers. They had these cardiologists on and these guys were saying, X was normal 25 years ago, then it was redefined 10 years ago downward, and now it is being redefined downward again. So all these people who weren't sick yesterday are sick today and on expensive meds that may make them sick.

[EnfantTerrible]

13. I have high cholesterol

by old and new standards (400+ if untreated) and I'm only 35... been dealing with it since I was 17... anyway, I used to go to a doctor in Chicago who was considered one of the leading research doctors in the world when it comes to this affliction. He and I had a conversation one day about the fact that he sits on the board of a drug company that makes one of the leading medications to treat high cholesterol... he was talking about the perks he receives... free trips, gifts etc... I asked him if he didn't feel that this was a conflict of interest or at the very least ethically questionable. He got very defensive and a bit angry that I would ask this. He had been helpful to me with treatment and meds because I had no insurance at the time and had worked out my case as a kind of pro bono/case study. I suppose he felt I was looking a gift-horse in the mouth. Needless to say, he is no longer my doctor.

I share this because it would seem that some of the doctors who are in cahoots with the drug companies don't see any ethical compromise in being able to prescribe medications that they have an economic interest in hawking.

Is it just me who finds this shady? that a doctor can receive income from the drug company for using it's brand? Makes me question whether or not I'm receiving the best meds for the problem or just boosting the stock of my doctor's drug company.

[earth mom]

15. I find it VERY SHADY. Conflicts of interest do not sit well with me

especially when we are talking about our own health care! :grr:

[EnfantTerrible]

20. They really have us over a barrel

the same way that auto mechanics do if you know little or nothing about cars. It's difficult for me to put my faith in doctors who have an economic interest in their diagnoses of me.

[barb162]

18. IMHO, Many MDs are in cahoots with pharma and pharma is in

cahoots with the FDA. The FDA is basically bought/owned/supervised by pharma. Same with dentists, vets, etc

[EnfantTerrible]

21. It's a mafia

but there are still some doctors out there who want to practice medicine to help people and not to get rich.

[barb162]

26. I agree but I think they are far and few between. I am switching my

doctors now, hoping to get honest ones. If I sense in any way the new ones are not, I will keep switching until I find them.

I just switched dentists last year after being told I had gingivitis and that I needed all this really expensive gum treatment. Went to 2 consulting dentists who said I had no sign of that disease.

[EnfantTerrible]

28. Good luck

I stay away from huge practices. I have a doctor with a small practice and I never question his motives. I know how hard it is to find someone that you can trust.

My dentist is a whole other story... I don't trust him at all. Unfortunately my insurance is confining me to him for now.

[barb162]

30. The MD group I use has about 150 MDs. I actually

went outside this group about 3 weeks ago for a consultation with another internist. My goal is to switch to women MDs who I hope have a better understanding of women health issues. We will see, I have the appts. set up for next month. The internist I have now has misdiagnosed me twice, spent enormous sums testing me for which I pay a large co-pay, finds he's wrong, has no explanation for my symptoms after an entire year, etc.

My dentist, I had him for ten years and trusted him totally and sent a lot of new clients to him. All of a sudden he gets this new laser drill ($$$$) and all of a sudden I have gum disease with no symptoms, like no bleeding, no soreness, no tenderness, etc. I just about RAN out of there and made appts. for consults. I was right to do just what I did.

Whenever your gut tells you you're getting dicked around, your gut is probably right.

[knitter4democracy]

33. Best way to find a good doctor.

Ask a unit nurse. She'll know who's good. Ask her whom she goes to or whom she takes her family. If she gets edgy, call back later, as there's probably someone standing near her.

My husband was really lucky to get hired by the best practice in town. We did too many interview dinners (wow, doctor interview dinners are really, really boring!) that were terrible, and then he found out about BCMA. It's not that big of a practice but very busy, and the partners are all wonderful doctors he feels lucky to practice with. It was during that process that one of my friends from church, a nurse in the unit for over twenty years, took me aside and told me that it was the best practice in town, the one all the nurses and doctors go to. That cliched it, and Hubby took the job. He's been very happy ever since.

It's an uphill battle for doctors these days. Insurance companies try to tell them how to practice, drug reps annoy them a million times a week (which they put up with for the free samples for their patients who need them, the number of which goes up all the time), and patients are a source of inspiration and frustration at the same time.

There are good doctors out there, and they're not just women. Shoot, I have given up on going only to a woman, as most women doctors I've seen lately have bought into the male-dominated system big-time and are worse than the guys I have to see. :eyes: It sucks trying to find a new one who's really good, but it's worth the process.

[barb162]

38. You have a lot of really good points here.

When you say a unit nurse... are you talking about the local hospital and call the unit nurse for the dept. in which you are interested and just ask them.

I know if one more male MD SHOVES a stethoscope HARD up against sensitive breast tissue one more time, I may kill him. And if the woman I see next month does that, that's it (she has less to no excuse). Adios. (But I know what you mean about the women, they can be as bad or worse than the men; I had one like that a long time ago.) I also had a really good doctor a long time ago but he's in administration and totally stopped practicing. I want a MD who listens. I don't care if they like me or not

[knitter4democracy]

46. The intensive care unit

The nurses in the ICU work with doctors and the sickest patients in the hospital. They know who is unfeeling and uncaring, who frankly doesn't know what he's doing, and who's a walking malpractice case. If you call the ICU, ask to speak to one of the nurses (or, even better, go in person), and then ask her who is her doctor in town.

Why are the doctors shoving stethoscopes? I've never had that with the residents I see at the residency clinic, and I know my hubby doesn't (he practiced on me first). That's just wrong! Make sure to warn them, then, and that might help.

I know about the doctor who listens. Honestly, most of them want to, it's just that they have so many patients to see in a day that they just don't have the time. It's really sad, as they want to (at least Hubby does--says it gives him more clues as to what's wrong and how to fix it or make it better).

Yup, I'd ask some nurses whom they see. They don't put up with crap.

[barb162]

39. dupe

[lostnfound]

36. IMO, most MDs are too darn busy to re-think their views of govt agencies

If they have a practice and a family, and they try to keep up on the latest in their fields, I think it might be hard to also re-think everything handed to them as advice by the AMA, FDA, etc.

[goclark]

47. I totally agree with you!

My cholesterol numbers were 271 and I controlled it with diet and lost 39 pts, in three months.

I was allergic to ALL the cholesterol drugs, I tried 4 of them.

The doctors didn't want to believe me. They thought I had arthritis.

ONE wonderful doctor told me,"get off of ALL of the MEDS, even your sinus MEDS."

I did and the cramps,tinkles, muscle pain are about 99 % gone.

I also asked one of my doctors if I should see an Allergy Specialist.
I'm getting the shots now and they seem to be working but I'm still working on DIET, EXERCISE and eating the right foods.

[EnfantTerrible]

48. You are lucky

A) That your cholesterol can be controlled successfully with diet and excercise

and

B) That you had a wonderful doctor who seemed to understand that meds can hinder as much help sometimes

In my case, diet and excercise are not enough... mine is an hereditary condition that had those doctors who are drug happy (i.e. they have a vested interest in my dependance on the drug they are hawking) licking there chops when a 17 year old comes in with numbers over 400 in total cholesterol... they saw a long term case study in me.

How I wish I could just watch what I eat and excercise to get the numbers down.

[goclark]

49. I pray for you and for all of us

that are at the mercy of the pharmacy industry.

I believe we are on the same page.

Drugs have made miracles for all of us!

But, the companies are greedy now and they are kissing up to the doctors and giving them extra money for pushing certain drugs.

That is criminal!

Every time that I go into my doctor's offices, the cute blonde Drug Reps are given an immediate "appointment" with the doctor. Something is wrong with that picture.

They bring the doctors, and the staff, fancy catered lunches.

The only office that I don't see this is in the office of the ANGEL doctor that believes that Drugs are an important part of the picture but other things can be tried. I have never seen a Rep in her office, yet she knows the PDR by heart.

My prayers are with you and all of the millions of us who are trying to understand how to deal with our health issues.

[KharmaTrain]

16. An Old Shell Game...

My father practiced for over a half century and we saw all sorts of pharma games that got even worse over the years...and now are in full concert with the insurance companies and this regime.

Many doctors won't even have the chance to "re-diagnose"...as some posters have already noted, the insurance company decides that for you.

One instance this brings to mind is a long-time patient...after a routine office visit and re-up of a prescription for an existing condition, the insurance company refused to pay. When we called, we were told that his condition had be "re-diagnosed" and that a different treatment was now needed. They directed him to another doctor who they claim came up with a far different diagnosis.

A couple years went by and this patient returned to my father's care...after an examination, my father once again saw the existing condition and it really hadn't changed much over the years. However, when he saw the medication list this guy had, it blew him mind. His monthly expenses had increased nearly 5-fold in two years...most on "name brand" rather than generic drugs.

Many doctors face uphill battles these days as they get strangled by lawyers on one side and the insurance companies and government on the other.

[Sadie5]

22. I have a history of HBP

My father and Grandfather both died of Hypertension related illnesses. Heart attack for Dad and Stroke for Grandpa. With BP like mine I truly do need the meds to lower it. But I take offense at pill pushing simply to get the freebies that the Pharma reps offer the Docs.

[Celebration]

29. little hints

My daughter had white coat syndrome and high blood pressure 150/90 at doctor's office. She could easily have been put on meds!! What she did was get a blood pressure monitor at home. Even at home she would get some high numbers. That helped track her blood pressure and also acted something like a biofeedback device (ok I do muscle response testing and could tell the hbp was emotional in origin). Then she ordered a device to teach her how to do deep breathing-- specifically tested for high blood pressure.

http://www.resperate.com/

I found a review in AARP or something that was good. Big caveat-- my daughter loves this but I tried it and it sort of drove me nuts.

She got a couple of acupuncture appointments too, to help her relax.

She also started taking some supplements, including Natto, coenzyme Q10, etc.-- determined by muscle response testing (I KNOW this is alternative and unproven and all the Quackwatch sites, but convinced personally that it works--simply dismiss this if you desire).

All of this and about a month later she NEVER gets a reading over 125/80. Keep in mind her doctor had already given her a blood pressure medication prescription-- never filled.

A substitute for cholesterol medication could be a combination of policosanol and coq10 or red rice yeast and coenzyme q10-her cholesterol if anything is too low and she didn't need that. However I am NOT trying to diagnose anyone here, BELIEVE ME. I am just saying that the pharmaceutical route is not always necessary.

There are some doctors that think everyone on statin drugs should also be taking coenzyme q10.

http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/chris/2003/12/13/statin_drugs_coenzyme_q10_depletion.htm

I can't personally vouch for any of this and have no medical certifications ,etc. etc. Do your own research.

[AllyCat]

42. Just me...one thing about red yeast rice

My mom started taking this for her high cholesterol when she refused to take statins anymore from her doctor. My family has always used herbal treatments where possible and she really wanted to try this. Her cholesterol (usually at the 300 mark) dropped to 179 in a month. She was thrilled...except her liver enzymes went through the ceiling. Her lab sheet read like someone with hepatitis.

When she stopped taking the RYR, her liver panel returned to normal, but the cholesterol went right back up.

Just a word to everyone, it is possible to have problems from herbals too. If you choose to use them, that's fine. You join a huge group of Americans getting good relief. But remember, they are not without their own side effects and some regular labwork would probably be a good thing to make sure you aren't affecting some other body system.

Sounds like the biofeedback worked for your daughter though! That's great!

[Celebration]

44. yes red yeast rice is like a drug

"If you choose to incorporate red yeast rice into your cholesterol-lowering program, it is very important to remember that you are taking a substance that acts identically in the body to the prescription statin drugs. This means that red yeast rice can cause the same side effects (mild gastrointestinal upset and possible changes in liver enzymes, or a muscle condition called rhabdomyolysis)."

http://www.wholehealthmd.com/refshelf/substances_view/1,1525,10054,00.html

[AllyCat]

45. Good link! I'm going to send this to my mother who still rues the

day she took that blood test. :eyes:

[KharmaTrain]

32. It's Beyond Disgusting

I'm sorry to hear of your conditions and it's fortunate the medications are around to enable you to have "normal" lives. It's a shame people and greed have to interfere with it.

After my father passed away, I went through a ton of the premiums and goodies the pharmas sent him over the years. (My favorites, however, were the tons of liquor he got from the funeral parlors..."thanks for the business???"...he never drank the stuff) and the relentless practices these companies have displayed over the years.

My brother is involved with medical research and I listened to him describe the politics he was having to play in getting a new drug tested and to market. The greed going on there is incredible.

Here's hoping you have a physician you are comfortable with and who will shoot straight with you.

[knitter4democracy]

34. They sure do.

For a funny look at the profession, check out http://www.placebojournal.com and their take on it. It's the only medical journal that's funny (well, intentionally, anyway).

My husband's had that happen with patients. He's shocked at how many doctors don't take cost into account. He's always calling to see what different meds cost so he can keep the costs down for his patient. He's gotten his heart failure regimen to about a hundred a month (which he's still mad about), and he's had new patients come in who spend five times that or more for the same problem.

[RaleighNCDUer]

24. National health!

Remove the profit motive from the treatment of the unfortunate!

[getmeouttahere]

25. Exactly right....

no one should ever be able to profit from your illnesses

they want us to be sick and overweight/obese, not only does it improve the bottom line of the fast food companies, but of course big pharma as well

[knitter4democracy]

35. Amen!!!

What is it going to take for us to get it? More and more of the doctors we know are starting to think that some version of it is a good idea (the others like their money too much and are scared they'd lose it under a national program). If we get the doctors on board, what else do we need to do? My husband talks about it with his patients all the time. You know, little reminders that it would be better for business and better for the nation's health. Stuff like that.

[davsand]

31. They claim it is a better understanding of prevention that drives this.

The driving force behind these new guidelines (they claim, anyway) is that they have a better understanding of how to prevent long term damage from these various diseases or slow progression.

If you keep blood sugar below _____ it helps to prevent blindness or neuropathy. If you keep cholesterol levels below _____ it helps to slow the buildup of arterial plaques (and thus prevents heart attacks.) Similarly, they have looked at the entire definition of high blood pressure.

I think it IS driven, in part, by the pharma companies. They fund a lot of the research. I think it IS driven, in part, by the Docs, because they DO get perks from pharma sales reps. I also think it is driven, in part, by the health insurance companies because they don't want to pay off on heart attacks and strokes and kidney failure. They can pay off on pills for several years and still be money ahead over paying off on a trip to the ER and a cardiac bypass.

My family has most of the above listed issues. My elderly parents are taking a veritable smorgasbord of drugs EVERY day, and they STILL are fighting diabetes, high blood pressure and heart disease. I think the genetic link to it all will end up being the major player, and I think that everybody is gonna die someday--it is only a matter of when that happens and how good you feel up to that point that the Docs can help with.

I figure I'll do all I can to make use of the new info by working at my diet and lifestyle. I am, however, drawing a very firm line on a lot of the pharma stuff because I think it really isn't gonna matter in the end. It makes no sense to me to eat a lot of shit food and expect pills to correct the damage, and I think THAT is how we are conditioned to act in today's medical arena.

Just my two cents.


Laura

[FlaGranny]

40. I found an MD I think I'm going to like.

I was up front with him and told him I did not like to take medications. He agreed and said he felt meds should be a last resort. We'll see how that works out. He also has an acupuncturist in his office - very unusual for an MD. I've had acupuncture treatments in the past (for musculoskeletal problems) and I'll bet they're great for BP problems because after you've had a treatment, you're as loose and relaxed as a rag doll!!

[lonestarnot]

51. Knew this all along, just had not seen the numbers.... My last trip to the

doc, go every 10 years or so, I told him, "I'm not a doctor runner." AND he said, "Then you'll probably live a long time." Couldn't believe my ears!