Gen. Shelton can suck an egg.

[Tyler Durden]

The Federation of American Scientists did a complete workup in 1999 on the Kosovo war, and their general opinion was:

SNIP
General Wesley Clark has been NATO's Supreme Allied Commander in Europe since July 1997. In that capacity, he was responsible for conducting the western alliance's successful 78-day air campaign against Serb forces in Kosovo - NATO's only offensive military endeavor in its 50-year history. Retired Colonel David Hackworth - a decorated U-S veteran from the Korean and Vietnam wars - says General Clark has not received the necessary accolades for his Kosovo campaign. /// HACKWORTH ACT /// He is a winner. He is the first General in U-S military history who fought a war, sustained - as we know - no friendly casualties and at the end of the war didn't get a bunch of medals, didn't get a victory parade down (New York's) Fifth Avenue and ended up getting the sack. (getting fired)

SNIP

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/ops/docs99/990804-kosovo01.htm

I strongly suggest reading the entire page and one can see the political manipulation and the disagreements (say: HONEST ASSESSMENT) that General Clark had with DEFENSE on the use of Ground Troops.

This, against comments of a Bush supporting General Shelton, who is one of the authors of the Iraq Quagmire?

PLEASE choose something real to bash on, and consider this item DEBUNKED.

[IrateCitizen]

1. You know, I used to have a profound respect for Gen. Shelton

Now all that has melted away, and he has been shown as the shameless Pentagon and Military-Industrial Complex flack that he is.

For him to talk of "values and integrity" in one breath as his reasons for NOT liking Clark, and then turn around and praise Bush's handling of the "war on terror" in the next breath, absolutely floors me.

[diplomats]

4. Me, too

I used to like him when he was chairman of the Joint Chiefs, but his criticism of Clark and praise of Bush sickens me.

[TacticalPeek]

20. I, too, had hopes when Gen Shelton ascended to chair the JCS.

Since he went there from heading the Joint Special Ops Command, had SF background, etc, I had hoped for HELP! for the operator community. Fat chance. During his tenure they still found themselves at the hind teat, and I found myself with a GPS receiver on my Christmas shopping list for a relative in the community. 'Salright, those guys know what bootstraps are for. But definitely, Shelton disappointed.

[screaming_meme]

21. Admit it: you never heard of Shelton until today

I hadn't

[TacticalPeek]

22. Raygun had the same problem knowing who was his chair of JCS.

(Documented in the transcripts and depositions of the flakey Poindexter's trial.)

[Tinoire]

2. That's a "Voice of America" transcript not a FAS opinion

Transcript from 04-Aug-1999

Source: Voice of America

[Tyler Durden]

3. Excuse my "error."

I would still give creedence to an FAS cite.

[Zuni]

Clark is one of the smartest, most able generals we have ever had

and is getting slammed by wing nuts from both the left and the right.

Shelton just seems to be another has been--kissing Bush's ass to keep his cushy job.

[dfong63]

5. medals should be awarded for valor, not for dropping bombs

He is a winner. He is the first General in U-S military history who fought a war, sustained - as we know - no friendly casualties and at the end of the war didn't get a bunch of medals, didn't get a victory parade down (New York's) Fifth Avenue and ended up getting the sack. (getting fired)

medals should be awarded for valor, not for dropping bombs on civilians.

[Pltcl_jnky]

6. there are many medal for valor

.

[neverforget]

15. Clark was awarded the Silver Star, Bronze Star and Purple Heart

for courage and valor while in combat. In cased you missed it, he was wounded in Vietnam, thus the Purple Heart.

[Starpass]

7. Remember Clinton has said repeatedly

that he was conned by Cohn (his asshole SEc. of Defense - from my state, Maine and Cohn is repuke to his bung hole)and the Joint Chiefs (Sheldon) in signing the papers to recall Clark. If they had real bad stuff on Wes they would have not lied to Clinton but presented the facts and let Clinton recall him on those facts. When I saw that today I wondered just how much Rove is slipping this bastard to join in the bashing. It is going to be real easy to get military brass to do their bidding and they are showing their hand very quickly. Rove must be frantically making calls. P.S. I liked Clark's reply today on Today Show where he talked about not ever running for political office but when so many people urged him to step forward, run and give some leadership to this nation, he was honored to be called to serve. Smooth, Wes, smooth.......you're gonna' do all right with those politicians buzzing around your head. And, now, Wes, time to talk about some of the repuke brass and what kind of garbage they are into. Maybe that will shut them up real fast.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

9. We need Clinton to clear this shit up publicly

BTW Why did he nominate a Republican to be sec'y? I realize Maine is far more sane as far as being GOP goes but...WTF?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

11. Hell,

why the hell did he install Powell's boy at the FCC?

That's the one that burns.

[NNN0LHI]

17. If you must bash Clinton do it accurately. Bush appointed Powell

http://www.fcc.gov/commissioners/powell/mkp_biography.html

Biography of
FCC Chairman Powell

Michael K. Powell is Chairman of the Federal Communications Commission. He was sworn in as a member of the Commission on November 3, 1997. He was designated Chairman by President Bush on January 22, 2001.

Mr. Powell, a Republican, was nominated by President William J. Clinton on July 31, 1997, and confirmed by the United States Senate on October 28, 1997.

more

[Starpass]

12. New Yorker---he did it as a "bringing people together and uniting"

thing. And because Dems were always thought of a soft on defense, I think he did it to keep the flaming assholes from 24/7 attacks on him...........worked real well, didn't it?? (the keeping the flaming assholes from attacking him part, I mean).

[NewYorkerfromMass]

16. So Cohen screwed Clark after Kosovo?

my read is that Clark was getting too loose and Clinton wanted to reign him in. Now I hear Clinton got "duped" by Cohen.

And yeah, re: Repub. appointments- no good deed goes unpunished. :shrug:

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

13. Clinton never got rid of Bush Sr White House staff either

remember Linda Tripp?

[Tyler Durden]

8. Besides, if YOU were Shelton...

Wouldn't the mere thought of working for Wesley Clark as President make you piss your tighty-whities?

[pippin]

10. am still trying to get a response to this

posted this on another thread but will ask again for a response:

First: every time someone asks about Clark's role in Kosovo , Clark supporters will say "disregard the sources because it's coming from the right." and here is where I think the American public knows very little about what went on or how Clark figured in this US invovlement abroad.

There was, for instance, a war crimes tribunal:

http://www.iacenter.org/warcrime/wct2000.htm

There were sixteen judges from different countries. The two from the US were:
"Martha Grevatt--United States--National Secretary of the AFL-CIO for Lesbian/Gay/Bi/Trans Labor Organization called Pride at Work, and active in the United Auto Workers. " and,

"John Black--United States--retired President of the Health and Hospital Workers Union in Pennsylvania, responsible for bringing many thousands of hospital workers into the union. As a teenager in Germany he was active in the anti-Nazi underground resistance" who don't sound like right wing conservatives to me.

"Further, one of the two prosecutors was:
Ramsey Clark, former U.S. attorney general and founder of the International Action Center." This Clark is currently at the center of the Impeach Bush Movement.

One of the few journals that even carried the story of the tribunal was Counterpunch--edited by Alexander Cockburn--who is certain neither republican nor right wing.

Clark was commander of the NATO forces and he said very recently in an interview that there were no casualties. I am not supporting the following thread in any way Clark supporters as I don't know who Mark Jones is, but the following seems to suggest that there were casualties:

"NATO planners not only knowingly killed
civilians, but deliberately set out to do so." He points specifically to the
bombing of the Grdelica and Varvarin Bridges (on April 12 and May 20) and
the strikes on the Nis marketplace on May 7."

http://csf.colorado.edu/forums/m-fem/2000/msg00462.html

Even as we now protest the obscenity of our invovlement in Iraq, I think it would be incautious of any responsible Democrat not to try and get to the bottom of what went on, and what Clark's role was in Yugoslavia.

P.S. I haven't decided on which candidate to support. i hope to make an informed decision when the time comes.

[Renew Deal]

14. Actually the far left also

"NATO planners not only knowingly killed
civilians, but deliberately set out to do so."

Are you kidding? Why didn't we stay there and just keep killing since we are such blood thirsty lunatics. :tinfoilhat:

[StephNW4Clark]

18. International Tribunal - Hague

Every head of state of NATO member nations, including NATO head Javier Solana, Secretary of State Albright, & SACEUR Gen. Wesley Clark submitted to a trial at the Hague - the international court of law established by the United Nations. They were cleared of charges.

If you want to get to the bottom of it, I suggest you reference the fact that Bill Clinton was hailed as a liberator during his recent trip to the former Yugoslavia.

I also suggest you research that Clark argued for ground troops to avoid some of the problems of an air campaign but was refused by both the Pentagon and the Congress and President.

Also reference Samantha Power "A Problem from Hell" that talks about genocide and her assessment of American military force in humanitarian interventions. She incidentally is an academic liberal and not at all inclined to give anyone the soft treatment. Given that, she praises Clark for standing up for Kosovo and pushing for intervention in Rwanda.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

19. Yep. You nailed all the essentials

Clinton wanted to avoid coalition deaths at all costs and only allowed high altitude bombing. This lead to an unfortunate number of civilian casualties, but the war main efforts were achieved, and in the end Kosovo was grateful.