OMG !!! - What Happened To The NYT??? - Somebody Get The Smelling Salts!!!

[WillyT]

<snip>

President Bush told the nation last night that the war in Iraq was difficult but winnable. Only the first is clearly true. Despite buoyant cheerleading by administration officials, the military situation is at best unimproved. The Iraqi Army, despite Mr. Bush's optimistic descriptions, shows no signs of being able to control the country without American help for years to come. There are not enough American soldiers to carry out the job they have been sent to do, yet the strain of maintaining even this inadequate force is taking a terrible toll on the ability of the United States to defend its security on other fronts around the world.

We did not expect Mr. Bush would apologize for the misinformation that helped lead us into this war, or for the catastrophic mistakes his team made in running the military operation. But we had hoped he would resist the temptation to raise the bloody flag of 9/11 over and over again to justify a war in a country that had nothing whatsoever to do with the terrorist attacks. We had hoped that he would seize the moment to tell the nation how he will define victory, and to give Americans a specific sense of how he intends to reach that goal - beyond repeating the same wishful scenario that he has been describing since the invasion.

Sadly, Mr. Bush wasted his opportunity last night, giving a speech that only answered questions no one was asking. He told the nation, again and again, that a stable and democratic Iraq would be worth American sacrifices, while the nation was wondering whether American sacrifices could actually produce a stable and democratic Iraq.

Given the way this war was planned and executed, the president does not have any good options available, and if American forces were withdrawn, Iraq would probably sink into a civil war that would create large stretches of no man's land where private militias and stateless terrorists could operate with impunity. But if Mr. Bush is intent on staying the course, it will take years before the Iraqi government and its military are able to stand on their own. Most important of all - despite his lofty assurance last night that in the end the insurgents "cannot stop the advance of freedom" - all those years of effort and suffering could still end with the Iraqis turning on each other, or deciding that the American troops were the ultimate enemy after all. The critical challenge is to gauge, with a clear head, exactly when and if the tipping point arrives and the American presence is only making a terrible situation worse.

<snip>

Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/29/opinion/29wed1.html

Well... paint my nails red and call me Cindy, LOL!!!

[LincolnMcGrath]

1. Thanks for the Link

Cindy lol

[WillyT]

9. LOL !!!

:hi::rofl::hi:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

21. Willy T. Cindy. Sounds nice. (nt)

[WillyT]

30. LOL !!! - Well... I Wouldn't Have To Change My Initials !!!

:silly:

[XOKCowboy]

2. More Liberal Media bias...

Not my words. Just what the NeoCons will say. Sadly.

[Iris]

4. They think anything that questions the status quo is liberal.

They believe in neither civilized debate nor researched commentary.

[jokerman93]

99. Nay!

They think anything that challenges their self-referential delusional system is Liberal. Facts are Liberal. The rule of law is liberal. Critical thinking is Liberal. Debating the real issues is Liberal. Dissent is Liberal. Diversity is Liberal. Feel free to elaborate...

:-)

[ExclamationPoint]

110. global warming is liberal

even though it's actually conservative (let see, who drives the hummers?)

[Iris]

125. A guy I work with says global warming has been invented by socialists.

Because they want to control everything, dontcha know?

[Kool Kitty]

5. Let the neocons yap.

Screw 'em.

[OctOct1]

8. The truth is always "Liberal Media bias"

[XOKCowboy]

16. So True...

They even think that CNN is a liberal media outlet. Anybody but Faux it seems is on OUR side. Sheesh.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

22. I've seen freepers complain that Fox News is getting too liberal.

I shit you not. :crazy:

[mwb970]

58. Actually, I've noticed a *little* less RW bias on Fox lately.

I figure they're worried about ratings.

[marmar]

67. If Rupert Murdoch sensed the the American mainstream was moving left..

He would go Brutus on Caesar Bush in a heartbeat.

[ooglymoogly]

93. more like li'l boots...

the cesar that haunted brutus unlike our little boots was a brilliant man...however your point is right on the money.

[AndyTiedye]

123. ** Is Not So Much Like Caesar as Like Caligula

"Let them hate us as long as they fear us"

[K-W]

124. mispost

[tallahasseedem]

71. OMG...

That truly means the end could be near. I like your username by the way. It always cracks me up when the Freeps use that term.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

92. It was a insult by a freeper (although I didn't know of the term or of FR)

that begat that username. :hi:

[Evergreen Emerald]

38. my next t-shirt

[The White Tree]

88. That is an awesome slogan

dontcha think.

I'd love to see that on a bumper sticker.

:toast: :yourock: :headbang:

[The Doctor.]

109. Yes, something like;

TRUTH = Liberal
................Media Bias

Hmmm... think I'll work on that.

[XOKCowboy]

17. BTW - Great Article NTF

[ms liberty]

81. anyone to the left of Falwell & Dobson are liberals to them...n.t

[Dinger]

3. I Had To Get Mine . . . .bu$h Will Drop Like A Rock,

and by the weekend, his "approval" rating will be less than 40! Mark my words

[Swamp Rat]

7. What will he do?

[Dinger]

12. Probably The Same Thing Adolf H. Did . . . .

Wait, he doesn't have the nerve. Here's a bold one . . . I think bu$h will resign right before the 2006 election.

[stevietheman]

119. I said before I was...

taking bets on the date of the Bush bunker suicide. :)

[Dinger]

121. Well, Bless Your Little Heart : )

[corkhead]

86. no bandwagon jumping for me

I hated him when he was at 70!

[ooglymoogly]

95. he's already below 40...the polls are propping him up

just like they did before and during the election.

[SalmonChantedEvening]

6. Thanks Cindy!

great op/ed! bravo NYT!!

:applause:

[jaysunb]

10. Gotta be a misprint

n/t

[in_cog_ni_to]

11. Hello! Blow me over!

It's about damn time we have some truth from these people!

Great oped...thanks for posting it! I can go to bed with happy thoughts tonight.

[ProfessorGAC]

13. Another Question They Should Have Asked Is. . .

. . .exactly how will the sacrifices be worth it to america?

They use that abstraction all the time, but there are never specifics as to exactly how an invasion of a nation to forceably install democracy will benefit our country.

I suspect however, in the long run there are no such benefits. It's not that they can't elucidate them. It's that there really are no tangibles that will ever make this embarassment worth it.
The Professor

[ExclamationPoint]

112. America isn't selfless, as we all know, so....

it must be the oil then, non?

[helderheid]

14. Smells like impeachment

[suffragette]

47. I love the smell of impeachment in the morning.

[FuzzyDicePHL]

Let's just hope

they'll be able to get the fecund stench out of the draperies in the Oval Office.

[alcibiades_mystery]

15. Scathing

The most important sentence, IMHO: The critical challenge is to gauge, with a clear head, exactly when and if the tipping point arrives and the American presence is only making a terrible situation worse.

This is the first time that I have seen it suggested that maybe, just maybe, the presence of American forces in Iraq could be exacerbating the situation. And once this is said, it can't be bottled back up. Sure, the Times comes to a conclusion slightly different, at least for now, but they've landed on what i take to be the truth of the situation, and that kind of truth has a way of seeping into the public consciousness.

[WillyT]

18. Exactly !!! - Good Call !!!

:hi:

[ailsagirl]

29. Is the sleeping giant of the media finally starting to stir a smidgen?

One can hope.

[KharmaTrain]

31. This Regime Exacerbated The Situation From Day One

That tipping point was the day this regime took power and decided to invade Iraq. The tipping point was when the Supreme Court overruled an election and put war profiteers and neo-cons in charge of this country...and a compliant corporate media cheering them on.

What's left now is a decentralized group of city/states and fiefdoms...with the U.S. military running around like elephants trying to stomp out ants. The enemy is your friend is your enemy. But the profits are good...especially for contracts who get paid over and over again to replace the things the insurgents blow up.

We're stuck. Plain and simple. A sudden withdrawl will not be accepted by a majority in this country and Democrats will be blamed for it. It'll be "our defeatism" (while we have no real power) that will be blamed. This regime is playing a stalling game while the profits and being made and whatever deals can be cut. They'll hold off as long as they can and as along as the money is good.

If we're talking tipping point, it's when the profits to a KBR or Haliburton isn't worth the expense (and that doesn't mean human)...it means when they can't make big profits there anymore and find it elsewhere.

[SittingBull]

68. I totally agree

therefore you have to launch a money reform to lose the blood-money and overwhelme the greed, which was responsible for all this ridiculos crap.


;)

[Uncle Joe]

111. Well said!! n/t

[Virginian]

19. We could leave after 1,700 US deaths or

we could leave after 17,000 US deaths. The result will be the same, the Iraqi people will hate us for occupying their country.

As I said before this war, what is the difference between Saddam and the next dictator we install? Different name, same game.

[Rainscents]

33. Closing in on 1800... I heard today 20 died in Afg in plane crash.

Media cover this shit up!

[WillyT]

36. Are You Talking About The Helicopter Crash With 16 Aboard, Or...

is this a new one?

:shrug:

Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/29/international/asia/29afghan.html

[Rainscents]

89. Yes... Raw Story wants to why media isn't covering the story!

:hi:

[senseandsensibility]

20. The NYT was AS complicit as * in getting us into this

war, if not more so. After all, it was their role to be a check on the chimp's power and to inform the people. They CHOSE not to. This is a good article of course, but very late in coming.

[WillyT]

23. Yep... That's Why I'm Now Known As Cindy...

:silly:

Didn't see this one comin'!

[G2099]

28. Complicit indeed

And just as responsible

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. The press IS turning.... OMFG... is this really happening

and how long will it last?

[fishnfla]

25. yeah, bush fucked up, but now what?

I thought the ending was the best part. Failure cannot be our cause. We all know the admin scribbled the cat, but where do we go from here?

I mean 3 and 1/2 more years is a long time.....

[WillyT]

27. I Truly Don't Think He's Gonna Get All 3.5 Years !!!

If this speech goes over like a lead-balloon with a majority of the American public, his days are numbered.

Just a feeling... but it feels like Nixon II.

:shrug:

[fishnfla]

32. That won't solve the situation in Iraq, I'm afraid

Again, its clear to all that the chimp screwed up. The NYT editorial makes a good point. The herd is out of the frickin' barn already because of the idiot cowboy.

What are we gonna do to make it right? Burn down the farm?

Further failure in Iraq cannot be our cause, IMO

[brokensymmetry]

52. Why not?

Why can't failure be our cause?

It was a mess from day one. It was an inane mission, wrapped up in a lie, sold to an unaware public, managed by cynical profiteers. By any rational measure, it was an utter failure.

It isn't a solitary failure, either. Our trade policy is a failure. Our budget policy is likewise. Our industry seeks bankruptcy protection, our airlines are an experience in incivility - and on the horizon looms an energy crises that may make the entire structure of our civilization crumble.

I see no reason to waste another life - neither American, nor Iraqi - on a stupid misadventure that cannot succeed. I see no reason to accelerate our national bankruptcy as we squander our national wealth.

It is time - long past time - to cut and run.

We made a mess. We cannot clean it up. No one is willing (or able?) to clean it up for us.

Step 1: quit making the mess worse.

Step 2: don't make new messes.

Step 3: elect some people who will start putting our own house in order.

Then, in 10 years (minimum) - after we've fixed a small part of the damage inflicted on us by the chimpster - maybe we'll be in a position to issue a meaningful apology.

[G2099]

26. Did U.S. go to Iraq for WMD or to establish democracy?

"No WMD, ok we're out of here."

[oasis]

34. Bravo. Bush will rue the day he stirred this hornet's nest in Iraq.

[Lucille]

77. Bush will rue the day? It's the rest of humanity

that will reap what he's sown; or, to continue your metaphor, get stung.

[Eric J in MN]

35. best sentence

"The critical challenge is to gauge, with a clear head, exactly when and if the tipping point arrives and the American presence is only making a terrible situation worse."

[Nothing Without Hope]

37. Pass the polish, Cindy, this is GREAT!

But we had hoped he would resist the temptation to raise the bloody flag of 9/11 over and over again to justify a war in a country that had nothing whatsoever to do with the terrorist attacks.

:applause:

[alarcojon]

40. Repeat it loud and clear

Call Bush on his constant linkage of Saddam and 9/11. I'm so glad the NY Times has decided to do so clearly and firmly

Bush mentioned "September Eleventh" 5 times.
Bush mentioned "terror", "terrorism" or "terrorists" 35 times.
Bush mentioned "Iraq" or "Iraqis" more than 100 times.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1590312

[Nothing Without Hope]

41. yeah - Knight-Ridder also told the truth, but we expected that:

I do love Knight-Ridder. They should be proud.

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/12007729.htm
Posted on Tue, Jun. 28, 2005

Bush spells out strategy for war in Iraq

By Ron Hutcheson
Knight Ridder Newspapers

(snip)

Calling the operation in Iraq "difficult and dangerous," Bush said "the lessons of September 11" require Americans to stand firm against an enemy that ignores the rules of conventional warfare. Although Bush has acknowledged that there's no known link between Iraq and the Sept. 11 attacks, he implied a connection in a prime-time speech that was intended to shore up flagging support for the war.

(snip)

"We have more work to do, and there will be tough moments that test America's resolve," he said in his prepared remarks. "The American people will not falter under threat - and we will not allow our future to be determined by car bombers and assassins."

Bush again invoked Sept. 11 in describing the stakes in Iraq. He said a defeat for U.S. troops there would "yield the future of the Middle East to men like (Osama) bin Laden."

The CIA recently expressed concern that since the U.S.-led invasion in 2003, Iraq has become a better training ground for terrorists than Afghanistan was when it served as the home base for bin Laden and his al-Qaida terrorist network. In Afghanistan, Islamic fanatics trained in desert hideouts; in Iraq, they're getting real-world experience in urban warfare against the U.S. military, CIA analysts concluded.

[lancdem]

83. One of the stories on yahoo's front page

is about Bush being criticized for tying Iraq to 9/11. http://www.yahoo.com

[Danieljay]

84. actual story link here...

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/us/bush_administration

[lonestarnot]

39. WTF? Just WOW... I'm speechless!

[goclark]

42. Thank you Jesus! Thank you Conyers! Thank you DU

Thank you everyone who ever wrote an email or a LTTE , just thank you!:bounce:

There is No turning back, Bush is TOAST!

[Borgnine]

43. Paint your nails red and call you Cindy?

Well smack my ass and call me Judy!

[WillyT]

45. OK Judy, LOL !!!

:spank:

:bounce:

[Stephanie]

44. So when are they going to fire Judith Miller?

Just asking.

:shrug:

[Tinoire]

46. Paint them HOT PINK Cindy!!

A flashy bright pink is what your complexion calls for my friend ;)
What other color would go so well with the tie-dyed shirts?


:hi:

[WillyT]

49. You Got It Baby !!!

How ya doin girl???

Gonna make it to the Pub in Berkeley ta toss back a few???

Love ya, and miss ya much!!!

:bounce::loveya::bounce:

[Tinoire]

50. Gorgeous!

Yes, I plan to! It's been TOO long since I've seen you guys!

I'm doing ok GREAT now that I talked to you!

Peace & can't wait to see you again!

[hvn_nbr_2]

48. Tipping point! They said "tipping point."

Somebody there must be reading DU.

[TruthIsAll]

51. As I have stated a number of times on DU, starting 3 years ago

Bush will be impeached...

When the NYT decides it's time.

It's time.

[BlueEyedSon]

59. Woo hooo TIA! Marking my calendar.

[SammyWinstonJack]

73. I so hope you're right!

What a thrill it would be to see the lying chimp impeached, AND removed from office in disgrace. Bet he wouldn't be wearing his stupid smirk on that day! :woohoo:

[rambler_american]

122. My fondest fantasy

is seeing bush and the rest of his administration and everyone that profited from his lies in orange jump suits doing a perp walk. If that were to happen I might start believing in god.

[Catfight]

53. giving a speech that only answered questions no one was asking.

How true, rhetoric is stinking up America.

[nonconformist]

54. Hot damn!

We did not expect Mr. Bush would apologize for the misinformation that helped lead us into this war, or for the catastrophic mistakes his team made in running the military operation. But we had hoped he would resist the temptation to raise the bloody flag of 9/11 over and over again to justify a war in a country that had nothing whatsoever to do with the terrorist attacks.

*faints*

[Stockholm]

55. What were witnessing is the last throes of journalism.....n/t

[Amaya]

56. Excellent piece.

Wow :wow:

[Peace Patriot]

57. The New York Times and "the Big Lie"

The New York Times was the key player in "the Big Lie" strategy used to drag Americans back into another extended and unjustified war against their will. The Times' active promulgation of Bush's lies, and suppression of the truth, made it impossible for the saner voices in the country to prevail.

They, the Bush Cartel and the other corporate war profiteers got what they wanted--the permanent installation of the U.S. war machine in the Middle East to steal the last of the world's oil from the local people to whom it belongs, and to protect Israel--so they can afford to give their boy Bush a little public spanking. They might even impeach him, when a more competent Democrat is needed to keep the war going--and to run the bread lines at home.

The following statement in their editorial is therefore probably the most pukable:

"We did not expect Mr. Bush would apologize for the misinformation that helped lead us into this war..." --NYT

But here is the most important sentence, as to gauging the intentions of the war profiteers:

"The critical challenge is to gauge, with a clear head, exactly when and if the tipping point arrives and the American presence is only making a terrible situation worse." --NYT

With a clear head. Hm-m-m. How best to KEEP the U.S. military machine in the Middle East, and keep killing and torturing Arabs, and stealing their oil, as Americans begin to learn the facts of this most pukable of wars from news sources outside the country?

"To gauge, with a clear head, when and if...". If. IF. "...the American presence is only making a terrible situation worse."

IF.

The "terrible situation" was caused entirely by the Bush Cartel with the critically important support of the New York Times. THEY slaughtered over 100,000 Iraqis, and began torturing Muslims in secret prisons around the world. THAT is the "terrible situation" that "the American presence" MIGHT make worse, by...oh...CONTINUING to kill and torture Iraqis and steal their only resource. And IF continuing to do that becomes untenable--due to Iraqi resistance and American war fatigue--then they will have to think of a fall-back position in the Middle East to maintain and to further their goals. Say, invading Iran and Syria to create a much bigger American Protectorate--a vast concentration camp, surrounded by high walls (like the one in Palestine), bristling with barbed wire and armaments, enforced by U.S. bombings and high tech surveillance, from which local people have no escape.

When that time comes, then we will hear a lot more lies from the New York Times--like the ones they told about Iraq WMDs to get us into this disaster in the first place. An incident will be manufactured that seems to confirm the lies that are being currently prepped in the news about Iran and Syria (like the entirely phony "Gulf of Tonkin" incident that got us into Vietnam). It will get big headlines and lots of promotion at the NYT--and no questioning and no investigation. It will likely be something insulting (like the burnt bodies of contract patsies used as the excuse to invade Fallujah), but on a grander scale.

The previous lies promulgated by the NYT will all be forgotten, and a whole new set of lies will preoccupy the country. They may have discarded Bush in the meantime, and these may be Democratic lies--and will be all the more difficult to penetrate because of it.

"...in the end the insurgents 'cannot stop the advance of freedom.'" They describe this Bush line as "a lofty assurance." But "freedom" for Arabs is not now, and never has been, the intention. We have been supporting dictators and suppressing the wishes of ordinary people throughout the Middle East for decades--including the assassination of the democratically elected president of Iran, and installation of the fascist "Shaw of Iran"--an outrage that Iranians have not forgotten and will never forgive us for. And including also, of course, Bush Cartel support of Saddam Hussein, and collusion with the Saudi Arabian sultans.

Bush's stated goal ("the advance of freedom") is not "lofty." It is a lie. And if the NYT had any sincerity at all, they would say so. It has been a lie all along. A really terrible lie. It was THE LIE that was used to cover all the other lies (WMDs, 9/11). And to fail to call it what it is--a damned lie and a coverup--is a lie in itself.

Lofty, indeed. "Obscene" would be the accurate word to describe Bush"s "assurance" about "the advance of freedom."

To re-phrase this NYT piece of work:

"...despite his obscene assurance last night that in the end the citizens of Iraq 'cannot stop the advance of Bush Cartel oil interests backed by U.S. cannon fodder' - all those efforts of ours to twist the truth and lie America into another disastrous war could still end with Iraqis controlling their own country. The critical challenge is to gauge, with a clear head, exactly how to manipulate this situation, and spin the news, to continue the violent suppression of the poorest and most oppressed people in the Middle East."

[Freedomfried]

76. The accomplices of a crime will always protect the perpetrators.

Good post, impacting.

[Taylor Mason Powell]

120. *applauds*

Very well put. I agree 100 percent. F*ck the complicit New York Times. We're all supposed to cheer because they slap Bush around now?? This editorial is too little, too late to wash the blood of tens of thousands off their hands.

[H2O Man]

60. Beautiful.

And they are being kind to president bush.

[KG]

61. fuck the NYT, and every asshole on their editorial board.

they were cheerleaders for this clusterfuck. i wanna see them frog marched into the hague along with the rest of the BFEE.

[deutsey]

64. Yeah, they're a little late, aren't they?

[MetaTrope]

62. The American presence is making itself felt in Iraq in many ways

To quote from Baghdad Burning:

What people find particularly frustrating is the fact that while Baghdad seems to be falling apart in so many ways with roads broken and pitted, buildings blasted and burnt out and residential areas often swimming in sewage, the Green Zone is flourishing. The walls surrounding restricted areas housing Americans and Puppets have gotten higher- as if vying with the tallest of date palms for height. The concrete reinforcements and road blocks designed to slow and impede traffic are now a part of everyday scenery- the road, the trees, the shops, the earth, the sky… and the ugly concrete slabs sometimes wound insidiously with barbed wire.

The price of building materials has gone up unbelievably, in spite of the fact that major reconstruction has not yet begun. I assumed it was because so much of the concrete and other building materials was going to reinforce the restricted areas. A friend who recently got involved working with an Iraqi subcontractor who takes projects inside of the Green Zone explained that it was more than that. The Green Zone, he told us, is a city in itself. He came back awed, and more than a little bit upset. He talked of designs and plans being made for everything from the future US Embassy and the housing complex that will surround it, to restaurants, shops, fitness centers, gasoline stations, constant electricity and water- a virtual country inside of a country with its own rules, regulations and government. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Republic of the Green Zone, also known as the Green Republic.

“The Americans won’t be out in less than ten years.” Is how the argument often begins with the friend who has entered the Green Republic. “How can you say that?” Is usually my answer- and I begin to throw around numbers- 2007, 2008 maximum… Could they possibly want to be here longer? Can they afford to be here longer? At this, T. shakes his head- if you could see the bases they are planning to build- if you could see what already has been built- you’d know that they are going to be here for quite a while.

The Green Zone is a source of consternation and aggravation for the typical Iraqi. It makes us anxious because it symbolises the heart of the occupation and if fortifications and barricades are any indicator- the occupation is going to be here for a long time. It is a provocation because no matter how anyone tries to explain or justify it, it is like a slap in the face. It tells us that while we are citizens in our own country, our comings and goings are restricted because portions of the country no longer belong to its people. They belong to the people living in the Green Republic.

[Burried News]

63. giving a speech that only answered questions no one was asking

Yup, flying more flags that's what we need to do.

Do you believe? I believe. Do you believe? I believe. Do you believe? Yes I believe this sonafabitch is trying to kill us.

[Burried News]

65. Question: George, the VC waited us out for more than 10 years

what makes you think the insurgents can't.

George, the Palestinians have been fighting the IDF for close to 50 years what makes you think the Iraqi's will do any less?

Stay the course for who George?

There are many reasons for this war but the 'best interests of America' is not among them.

Stay the course for WHO, George?

[Just Me]

66. Okay. Now, THAT is a good read!!!

Finally, someone pierces right through the mindless rhetoric and reveals the gravity of this situation. It's about time!!!

[gristy]

69. More damning, I think, is the news article on the speech

This is the lead article on the front page:

Bush Declares Sacrifice in Iraq to Be 'Worth It'

By DAVID E. SANGER
Published: June 29, 2005

FORT BRAGG, N.C., June 28 - President Bush, facing a growing restiveness around the country and in his own party over the constant stream of casualties in Iraq, declared Tuesday night that the daily sacrifice of American lives in Iraq "is worth it, and it is vital to the future security of our country."
...

As he has in the past, the president melded the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks with the enemies Americans now face in Iraq.
...

While offering no new strategies in a war that has now stretched for 25 months, with no diminishing of attacks on American forces, he explained that he would not send more troops to face the insurgency in Iraq, unless asked by commanders there, because it would "undermine our strategy of encouraging Iraqis to take the lead in this fight."
...

The Department of Defense has identified more than 1,730 casualties among American military personnel.

...I know Americans ask the question: Is the sacrifice worth it?" He quickly answered his own question in the affirmative,
...

Mr. Bush sidestepped arguments about whether his rationale for entering the war was flawed, or based on faulty evidence that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, and he made no reference to recently disclosed British government memorandums that show his major ally in the war harbored deep doubts about whether the White House had thought through the risks of the post-invasion period.
...

Network officials said they were hesitant to broadcast the speech in part because of Mr. Bush's decision to hold it here, in front of soldiers selected by their commanders, a setting that could give the appearance of a rally. They need not have worried...

www.nytimes.com/2005/06/29/politics/29prexy.html?pagewanted=1


More. Lot and lots more. Damning. Absolutely damning.

[ExclamationPoint]

114. Did anyone read the article in The New Yorker....?

It had an article in it that told the story of a man whose son died in Iraq, and it came upon the point that in this war, there was neither great division nor great unification among the citizens of our country, rather that most cries of outrage were silenced, though the situation certainly called for such reactions.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

70. Dear Cindy,

I cannot put aside, at least temporarily, <my> anger at the administration for its hubris, its terrible planning and its inept conduct of the war in return for a frank discussion of where to go from here. For you see, a "frank discussion" would be a one-sided event if it involves these liars. In order for a "frank discussion" to begin, the onus is on this administration to demonstrate that they are willing to discuss reality and not ideology or ass-coverism. Until then, my anger continues unabated.

Sincerely,

RiF.


P.S. I like that shade of red on you.

[kedrys]

72. *thud*

*regains consciousness*

Holy Christ on a bicycle with two flat tires!!! Did I really really just read this? I didn't just make it up in my feverish brain? :wow:

Real blood in the water now. Too bad the soldiers' blood wasn't enough for the press to have an epiphany 2 years ago.

[taxpayer2000]

74. Did anyone else laugh out loud when

Shrub said that extremists regard us as "corrupt" and "decadent" near the beginning of his speech. Those ignorant extremists ...

[benny05]

75. Remember Miserable Failure?

Below is an excerpt from remarks Rep. Dick Gephardt made at tonight's DNC Presidential Debate

Albuquerque, New Mexico – "In 1993, I was the majority leader who led with Bill Clinton to get this economy straightened out. Bill Richardson was my chief deputy, we were out on the floor, we didn't get a Republican vote in the House or a Republican vote in the Senate, we passed it by one vote in both houses, Dick Armey said it would create a depression in the country. He was the minority leader. Let me tell you something. He wasn't wrong; he was dead wrong. You remember: 23 million new jobs in seven years, unemployment was at 3%, we took a $5 trillion deficit and turned it into a $5 trillion surplus, we know how to do this, I know how to do it. And when I'm president, we'll get this economy moving again. I'll get rid of the Bush tax cuts; I'll give everybody health insurance that can't be taken away from you. I'll have an energy program, that I'll call Apollo II that will make us independent of Persian Gulf oil. I'll have a pension program so that you can move your pension credits from one job to the other. I'll accelerate spending in the highway trust fund. These are important issues. This president is a miserable failure on foreign policy and on the economy and he's got to be replaced." --Dick Gephardt, 2003

Quack, quack, quack...

[JRob]

78. MY anger at Bush & Company exists on soooo many levels...

"put aside"? Fuck that! Put BUSH aside. Whether because of gross incompetence or by design what's happening in Iraq is criminal and people need to go to prison.

[Catchawave]

79. I hope our military leaders read this.

But they're not allowed to disagree with President Noodles or their careers end.

[Jane Austin]

80. "bloody flag of 9/11"

Where was this talk of "bloody flag of 9/11" during the 2004 election?

Not only did the NYT help bring us this war, but the Times and the rest of the media, by not clearly hammering on bushco's cynical use of 9/11 to gain re-election, insured another four years of bush and his disastrous policies.

[BamaBecky]

103. I liked that line too!.......n/t

[Ilsa]

82. Great editorial.

Listening to Mr. Bush offer the usual emotional rhetoric about the advance of freedom and the sacrifice of American soldiers, our thoughts went back to some of the letters we received in anticipation of the speech. One was from the brother of a fallen Marine, who said he did not want Mr. Bush to say the war should continue in order to keep faith with the men and women who have died fighting it. "We do not need more justifications for the war. We need an effective strategy to win it," he wrote. Another letter came from an opponent of the invasion who urged the American left to "get over its anger over President Bush's catastrophic blunder" and start trying to figure out how to win the conflict that exists.



I can only hope more Republicans read it and agree that it makes sense.

[Maestro]

85. This speech will hopefully be his downfall.

Seriously, optimistic jingoisms only take you so far and the idiot is still invoking Iraq and 9-11 in the same breath. The American people can only take so much before they awake from this nightmare. Thanks for posting.

[tea4me]

87. Can I get an order of freedom fries

to go with that impeachment?:kick:

[Misunderestimator]

90. "a speech that only answered questions no one was asking"

:thumbsup: And even those answers were lies.

[Norquist Nemesis]

91. Meanwhile, the Taxpayer funded Terrorist Training Base

marches on! Get a little hands on training "over there" and re-deploy "over here".

[Politicub]

94. Like a lead balloon

is how Bush's speech went over last night. Even the lapdog media isn't attempting to perfume *that* turd.

:rofl:

[ColonelTom]

96. L.A. Times editorial today

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/editorials/la-ed-bush29jun29,0,5125939.story">The op-ed in today's L.A. Times:

President Bush's pep talk to the nation Tuesday night was a major disappointment. He again rewrote history by lumping together the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, and the need for war in Iraq, when, in fact, Saddam Hussein's Iraq had no connection to Al Qaeda. Bush spoke of "difficult and dangerous" work in Iraq that produces "images of violence and bloodshed," but he glossed over the reality of how bad the situation is. He offered no benchmarks to measure the war's progress, falling back on exhortations to "complete the mission" with a goal of withdrawing troops "as soon as possible."

<snip>

Who could disagree with the administration's goal of a democratic Iraq that respects human rights? But again, time for a reality check. A Times report last week noted complaints that the country's special security forces resemble too much those of Hussein's day, abusing and torturing those they arrest.

<snip>

Bush might be right to now put Iraq at the center of the "global war on terror," but it didn't have that status before the invasion. Al Qaeda flocked to Baghdad after the invasion and used Iraq as a rallying point for Muslims outraged by the U.S. invasion of an Arab nation.

<snip>

Recent polls indicate that Americans are understandably upset at spending $200 billion and so many lives in Iraq, while hearing only rhetoric about staying the course. ..<snip>.. The public can recognize the difference between rhetoric and reality.

Ask not for whom the bell tolls, Mr. President...

[ooglymoogly]

98. a blistering smack down

i think the press is Finlay getting it because the people have already gotten it...it should be the other way round...the media is supposed to be ahead of the curve not behind it

[Up2Late]

97. Here's the Same artical (NO Sign-in Required) from NYT/ IHT

Bush's speech on Iraq

The New York Times

THURSDAY, JUNE 30, 2005

President Bush told Americans on Tuesday night that the war in Iraq was difficult but winnable. Only the first is clearly true. Despite buoyant cheerleading by administration officials, the military situation is at best unimproved. The Iraqi Army, despite Bush's optimistic descriptions, shows no signs of being able to control the country without American help for years to come. There are not enough American soldiers to carry out the job they have been sent to do, yet the strain of maintaining even this inadequate force is taking a terrible toll on the ability of the United States to defend its security on other fronts around the world.

We did not expect Bush would apologize for the misinformation that helped lead us into this war, or for the catastrophic mistakes his team made in running the military operation. But we had hoped he would resist the temptation to raise the bloody flag of Sept. 11 over and over again to justify a war in a country that had nothing whatsoever to do with the terrorist attacks. We had hoped that he would seize the moment to tell the United States how he will define victory, and to give Americans a specific sense of how he intends to reach that goal - beyond repeating the same wishful scenario that he has been describing since the invasion.

Sadly, Bush wasted his opportunity Tuesday night, giving a speech that answered only questions no one was asking. He told America, again and again, that a stable and democratic Iraq would be worth American sacrifices, while America was wondering whether American sacrifices could actually produce a stable and democratic Iraq.

Given the way this war was planned and executed, the president does not have any good options available, and if American forces were withdrawn, Iraq would probably sink into a civil war that would create large stretches of no man's land where private militias and stateless terrorists could operate with impunity. But if Bush is intent on staying the course, it will take years before the Iraqi government and its military are able to stand on their own. Most important of all - despite his lofty assurance Tuesday night that in the end the insurgents "cannot stop the advance of freedom" - all those years of effort and suffering could still end with the Iraqis turning on each other, or deciding that the American troops were the ultimate enemy after all. The critical challenge is to gauge, with a clear head, exactly when and if the tipping point arrives, and the American presence is only making a terrible situation worse.

<http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/06/29/opinion/edbush.php>
(more at link above)

[hamiltob]

100. This is just more of the same.

Every once-in-a-while, the MSM will throw us a bone and let us chew on it for a little while. Nothing will come out of this. We will go on meandering about in Iraq, more people will die, we will not leave, and Bush will complete his term. There is too much money in Washington, power, and influence. A lot of Dems are in the ranks of the Republicans and the show will go on as usual.
This is just too damn Orwellian. The only thing we need is a Revolution. That is the only thing that will change the tyranny in our own country. Of course, there won't be a revolution either. We are living in the world of "1984."

[prairierose]

101. So the NYT has awoken from its stupor.....

and chooses at this time to FINALLY discuss reality. What this says to me is that the corporatists have decided that * has damaged the domestic economy too much. That the coporate media whores are losing PROFITS and so it is finally time to change horses. But I don't expect much more reality from them unless it is in their interest.

:grr:

[the old gringo]

102. Unfortunately

the conservatards don't put much stock in NYT or LAT, especially the editorial pages. The WaPo editorial was a lot softer on the Chimp than either of the former.

[Mr_Scarecrow]

104. leading us to poisoned water

it's b.s..

the critical part of the article is at the end, which says essentially, "Ok liberals, we threw you a bone, so stop your damn complaining and get into bed with this war."

PUT ASIDE our anger at Bush and start supporting this f-ing disaster?!? Not this liberal, thanks.

[nolabels]

105. Yep, that sums it up

Frankly i would even say the corporate press is just a liable and in contempt for even acknowledging them lies and tens of millions of lies from as far back as anyone can count. In truth they also actual accessories to the murder that is going on in Iraq and other places

Just like all rats they start turning on their own kind when things get rough, this sounds like a Judith Miller slap to me

[CAcyclist]

106. Maybe I'll Start up My Subscription Again

Please,please,please let this be the beginning of the end.

[Gronk Groks]

116. Don't get too hopeful, read to the bottom of the article...

..."No one wants a disaster in Iraq, and Bush's critics can put aside, at least temporarily, their anger at the administration for its hubris, its terrible planning and its inept conduct of the war in return for a frank discussion of where to go from here.

They are just covering their butts and telling us "to get over it" and support this criminal cartel.

As for impeachment:

"The president, who is going to be in office for another three and a half years, cannot continue to obsess about self-justification and the need to color Iraq with the memory of Sept. 11. America does not want it and cannot afford it."

Yea, right.... :puke:

[Shredr]

107. Everyone's already said it, but this put such a smile on my face...

I've got to add my own, "Thanks Cindy!"

Cheers.

[Elruin]

108. I know this is the wrong spot...

But you all have to check this out!

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/06/29/hayes.911/index.html

Then you have to do something!

[Frederik]

115. Wow, thanks

That's just desperate!

:rofl:

You should post it as a separate thread, (if you have enough posts to do that?)

[Gronk Groks]

117. THE LIES CONTINUE...

NEW YORK (CNN)
Wednesday, June 29, 2005; Posted: 9:12 a.m. EDT (13:12 GMT)

Rep. Robin Hayes the Republican congressman from North Carolina and also the vice chairman of the House subcommittee on terrorism told CNN on Wednesday that the "evidence is clear" that Iraq was involved in the terrorist attacks against the United States on September 11, 2001.:wow:

THEY ARE STILL TRYING TO LINK 9/11 TO IRAQ!!!!
EVEN AFTER...

The 9/11 commission, appointed by Bush, presented its final report a year ago, saying that Osama bin Laden had been "willing to explore possibilities for cooperation with Iraq" at one time in the 1990s but that the al Qaeda leader "had in fact been sponsoring anti-Saddam Islamists in Iraqi Kurdistan, and sought to attract them into his Islamic army."

The 520-page report said investigators found no evidence that any "contacts ever developed into a collaborative operational relationship."

AAAAAARRRRRRGHHHHHH!!!!!!!

:nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

[AmericanErrorist]

113. A reminder

There is a difference between the Editoral page and the journalism.

The editoral page spoke against the war in the build-up, although the journalism promoted facts bulit up the war for war....

[Joseph Christ]

118. Though I'm a little young to remember Nixon...

...I spent a good deal of time in the Museum of Television and Radio reviewing old new footage of some of Nixon's last speeches and a chunk of the watergate hearings during my last trip to LA. It seems that the parallels are very strong between the two administrations. Truly, they've been saying that since the early days of 2000 and the trend has only continued.

What really matters about this speech is how its spun but, really, that can only go so far.