my repuke neighbor tore down my fence!

[Lerkfish]

backstory:
this neighbor had Bush signs up while i had kerry signs during the elections. He pretty much made a lot of snide comments, like " do you think there are enough bathrooms in the white house?--because we sure don't need two more JOHNS!" to which I replied after the elections "apparently we DID need two more johns because that giant turd is still there."

anyways, he asked to tear down the fence that straddles our two properties so he could put up his own fence. The existing fence is an antique split rail fence, weathered for many years. We told him in no uncertain terms, NO. End of story, we think.
Then, the repuke sells his house (Yay! we think), unfortunately the new owners have not taken up residence yet, and we came home last night, and suddenly my wife screams "OUR FENCE IS GONE!'
Sure enough, the bastard had pulled up the split rail fence and destroyed the planks in the process. Livid, we rand their doorbell and he just smugly said " hey, I don't own the property anymore".

We called the sheriff, who agreed the neighbor was a prick, but that it was a civil, not a criminal matter because the fence was right on the property line (apparently as far as we know now) and that we should file in small claims court.

The problem is, in my mind, this is willful destruction of property. We can't replace an antique split rail fence and have it match the other side of the property where the fence is still up. We will have to tear down the other side and replace both or it will not look good.
That fence is part of why we bought the property.
The most we can get out of small claims is 3,000, which might cover the replacement costs of ONE side, but would not cover the whole fence.

We are spitting mad!

[Wickerman]

1. consult your attorney

yep, the guy is a first class prick.

[ConfuZed]

61. Did you witness him destroying the fence?

If you didnt you might not have a case.

[Lerkfish]

64. nope. however...

we have had frequent conversations with neighbors prior to this about how the guy wanted to tear down the fence, and we said no, and that caused some friction.

[Walt Starr]

2. so put up a fence that is 100% on your side of the property line

Make sure you do it quickly, too. get that side done ASAP and choose a design you know he will despise.

At your leisure, do the other side.

Also, file in small claims court.

[BlueEyedSon]

3. Get a lawyer.

[kitkatrose]

4. Not to be mean and violent,

but your neighbor is a jackass and probably needs to have his ass kicked. What a fuckwit. :grr:

I hope something else can be done other than small claims court. Maybe you could take him on Judge Judy and have her bich him out. :hug:

[Walt Starr]

6. Antique fence, NO SMALL CLAIMS COURT!

Sue the man for $45,000 as it was an antique fence and has totally destroyed the aesthetic value of your home.

[kitkatrose]

14. Oh, Lerk should sue for as much as possible,

but I personally would like to see Judge Judy take a whack at him. Yes, I do watch that show to see people make idiots out of themselves. :spank:

[Taverner]

22. Not only that but you can hold up the sale of his house by the lawsuit

If you really want to screw with him, the sale cannot close if there are any legal issues pending....so sue for as much as possible and he will HAVE to settle quickly in order to move, less the buyer back out.

Bro, you SO have him by the short hairs...and the idiot doesn't even know it!

[ChiciB1]

26. My Answer Exactly

This guy MAY have thought he so had you screwed, but if you could find out who his realtor is you should contact him immediately!

[MountainLaurel]

36. Oooh, good idea

:applause:

[sweetheart]

40. Yep, place an injunction on the sale

Escrow can't close with stuff like that outstanding.

Now is your opportunity to leave your mark. Your new neighbor may be a
very nice change from the old one, and the new fence you've to put up
will be a gesture of goodwill between you if you intend it so. (lerkfish)

Perhaps he destroyed the fence as a final futile act of hatred given
the small, and getting smaller every day, power of repukeism. Now they're
reduced to trashing fences like teenage vandals.

Bottom line, with the right lawyer, you can make him pay for your trouble,
and you can bless your property and your new relationship with your
neighbor with something really pleasant.

There's no victory like taking repuke hatred and turning it in to a
happy win-win paid for by repuke cash. :-)

Cheer up, you've got your health and your life... and he's jealous.
What a great blessing you have, and a fence is just a fence at the
end of it... don't get angry, get even.

[ryan_cats]

49. Oh yeah

Oh yeah, check for easements to see if they've been using one without your knowledge for access to some piece of their property.
One other thing, the law calls these things, "Good neighbor fences" So say the fence blows down, the idea is you both split the cost to repair it even though he doesn't have to pay a cent which is what happened to me. Guess whose side got the good looking side of the Fence in my case? The cheap neighbor even complained about how the new fence was being constructed!! I asked who their insurance was when we were still talking, then when they cheaped out, I called their insurance to say that they had an unprotected pool in their yard since the fence was down. Don't know what became of that.

Finally, get a property line map and see where the fence is, if it is on your property and not on an agreed upon split, he vandalized YOUR property and is responsible for the legal and monetarial costs. To make my self clear, I meany by legal, was that he willfully vandalized your property which is probably a misdemeanor but go for it. Little weasel neighbors, don't even have the guts to try and resolve this peacefully.

[radwriter0555]

50. AND BTW, hire a MEAN lawyer. Never hire a nice one for stuff like this.

Find one who's mean and nasty.

[ryan_cats]

44. Yep

You're 100% correct, file a lien against his property for the fence and he can't sell until the lien is satisifed.
Oh yeah, what a 'little' prick!.

[Al-CIAda]

57. Oh, wonderful idea. Excellent-n/t

[Capn Sunshine]

70. It's called a "lis pendens"

And I would have an attorney file one ASAP.

Also, call the guy's realtor and let him know you are filing
His motivation is to close the sale, and any obstacle to that becomes his personal problem.

[friesianrider]

122. Very excellent idea...

I'd demand exactly what it will cost to buy, reinstall, plus legal fees. This bastard had no right to do it.

Start NOW - don't let him get away with it!

[Democrat 4 Ever]

12. Just a thought - Small claims court have limits on how much you

can sue for - go to an attorney and sue for the whole enchilada to replace the fence - much more then small claims cap. He has hurt the value of your home, etc. etc. See if your attorney will work for a percentage of the recovery so that it doesn't cost you but it would definitely make the neighbor shell out moolah to defend himself. The only thing repugs know is their pocketbook. Hit him where it will hurt the most. If you have a chance, tie up the closing on the house if it isn't too late - that would really piss him off.

[friesianrider]

121. OOOHHHH!! GOOD IDEA!

Judge Judy would rip him a new one.

[Sweet Pea]

5. You bought the property....

partly because of a fence??????

Must have been one hell of a fence!

:shrug:

[ArkDem]

27. lol

[fob]

105. I know that sounds funny but missus fob and I bought OUR house in

no small part due to the fences! They are neat in their own right but they support ivy that is close to 12 feet tall. Building codes only allow a 6 foot tall fence (which the underlying fence is) so I went mildly insane when a neighbor started hacking down the ivy and pulling down the fence one day. And like the OP, since code won't allow it my current fence (fence/ivy combo) is PRICELESS. It cannot be duplicated by a fence (alone) without a variance (time and money and no guarantee of actually getting one) or by waiting 10 to 20 years for the ivy to regrow.


So I'm just here to add that as funny as it seems on the face, there is REAL value to all sorts of aspects of properties, fences included.

[dogday]

7. Whatever you do, keep your cool

We had two neighbors disputing their property line where I live and it got so bad, the one neighbor murdered the other by hitting him with a shovel.

[wtmusic]

8. It's possible the new owners had it done

and if not, it might be one of those situations where you have to write it off, and be glad the asshole's gone.

It could actually be covered under your homeowner's insurance.

[Yupster]

30. my thought too wtmusic

If he's leaving, what's in it for him to go through the expense anf effort to pull down a fence?

More likely it was in the inspection report that the fence needed changing, and the new owners probably wanted it done before they agreed to buy.

Can you see inspection reports?

I wonder if they are public?

[Botany]

9. do not beat him up ......

..... sue him ...... if the fence added more to your property value (and
can be documented by pictures and it's age) ..... you have a case ....
Get a good Attorney ...... not a cheap one ..... and go for it.....

[peacetalksforall]

10. Can you sue the new owners thereby messing up the closing,

assuming it has not closed since he's still in the house? At least as a stalling mechanism. He doesn't want to take the blame because he is no longer the owner, but he is in the house?

[Gyre]

11. You do need a good attorney

Not just one out of the phone book. Small claims probably won't do it as there is a cap to awards (in Calif it's $5k) and no ability to recoup losses for your attorney fees, etc.

Gyre

[gratuitous]

13. Yup, get a lawyer

Hit the smug jackass where it will hurt him most, in the wallet.

Oh, and take a bunch of pictures NOW, while the damage is freshest.

[bertha katzenengel]

15. Oh, man... I don't know what I'd do in the face of something so shitty.

I'm sorry, Lerkfish.

Do you have a lawyer? Even though a monetary settlement might not be very satisfying, dragging the asshole through court and embarrassing him might be.

[JHB]

16. Why isn't it a criminal matter?

If I understand correctly, a property-line fence is the joint property of the two property owners.

If he sold his property, just what claim did HE have on it anymore? The fence belonged to you and the new owners, not to him.

And wouldn't an antique fence be worth considerably more than $3000?

Yes, hit this jerk in his wallet, if it's worth it to you.

And have your lawyer contact the new owner: what did he tell them about the fence? They may even back out of the sale thanks to the legal cloud this clod saddled himself with because he couldn't help himself from handling this the "old-fashioned way" ... like in Grade School.

[AllegroRondo]

28. Thats my understanding also

If he no longer owns the property, he can be charged with trespassing and vandalism.

I agree, a lawyer should contact the new owners. If he misrepresented the status of the fence to them - i.e. "Its mine and it will be gone before we close the deal" - then both you and the new owners have a legal claim against him.

[woodsprite]

17. If you put up a privacy fence, make sure to

paint his side with pretty colors - say make every 5 boards a different "Disney" color or red, white, blue since he's such a patriotic kinda guy. :)

Somebody here in DE did that. It was covered in the local paper, but there wasn't darned thing they could do about it. It was on their property and he wasn't breaking a single law.

[Sydnie]

18. Contact the police again and ask them to obtain his homeowners

insurance information. Then tell the police that you want to press charges on vandalism and destruction of property. There must be a criminal charge that they can bring. If a juvenile did this they would charge them, why should it be any different just because they don't have to investigate who did it? Contact your insurance agent as well and see if they can pursue this for you since he clearly is at fault for the damage to your property.

And yes, contact a lawyer now before this guy moves and makes it harder for you to trace him.

[melissinha]

23. Good one

Cause insurance could get you the funds.... wonder if you have a neighborhood association with Deeds and Restrictions that could be of any help?

I agree with Sydnie...

[wicket]

34. EXCELLENT advice

:kick:

[SouthernDem2004]

86. Egad, leave the Police alone. :)

The Police do not survey or determine property lines.

[MemphisTiger]

19. You should break all his windows

say "It's not your property"

[melissinha]

20. Question

So you say that he is smuggly saying that he no longer owns the house when you went to complain... then he has NO RIGHT to destroy it even if it is between the two properties... because he doesn't own it anymore.... he thinks that shields him ... but he has no right.... So before he moves, you need to have the biggest Democratic Fest you can possibly have... maybe a fundraiser to help rebuild the fence... line where the fence was with Kerry signs... try to use some upcoming Congressional Candidates too.... So in essence for one night you bug the HELL out of him.... Oh yeah and some nice picketing signs would be really nice. You could use some of the splintered remains to hodl up signs too..

As for taking him to court, do it... and show the ruined planks and the rest of the fence.... maybe you can also get some trespassing charges....
I am so sorry for this.... we all are.... Hope you can restore/rebuild ....

[lateo]

21. Lawyer up.

And hit him with a big lawsuit seeking emotional damages.

[davsand]

24. Sue the MF and put up a BIG fence immediately.

Your first task is file lawsuit immediately with the biggest asshole lawyer you can hire. Don't hire them based on their politics--hire them because they are a junkyard dawg and they will bite your neighbor on the ass for being a dickweed.

Your next task, is to build a fence. Make sure it is on your side of the property line and paint some lovely saying on the side that faces his property. I'd refrain from using bad words, or his name, but I'm sure you can come up with something that will piss him off to the point of apoplexy.

"Bush LIED" might be a start, some biblical quote about not screwing with your neighbors might be an idea. MAYBE paint "Up yours, you Fascist Arsebite" would make you feel better--I dunno. Either way, I'd make his remaining days in that house painful for him every time he looked out his window.

But then again, I'm not a nice person either.



Laura

[seabeyond]

25. my neigbor pulled off the pretty wood and put a metal.

it sits on a couple foot stone wall. at first i was whaaaa.......

he had said nothing. but trees against, and bushes and shrubs, i started seeing on that white metal, huge graffiti pictures. so your story reminded me of my own to do. a couple years ago. that i chose to see a higher, and have a good relationship with neighbor. and everytime i look at that fence i dont feel an outrage. that is a good thing. i like my back yard. i like to be back there. i dont want to get angry everytime i look at that wall

your experience will be what you create it to be.

i personally dont chose those kinds of battles

so, i think next week our project will be to buy some paint. have the boys go over, say hi, and ask if it is ok if we create some pictures on his fence, on our side.

i bet he will say yes

[nini]

42. There's a difference between changing your side of a wall

and destroying it completely.

Why in the world should this guy kiss the other guy's ass for the sake of keeping peace? Sorry, but we need to stand up for ourselves when we are violated the way he was.

[seabeyond]

46. because it is a silly ass battle and i do not have to fight all the time

there are much bigger issues for me to focus on. i need lots of lite and love in my personal enviroment so i can go after those battles, without a bunch of blinders from pure anger

battles such as my childrens future. just is not the biggest of deal to me. would much rather, talk and resolve. use to be how we lived life. in short supply of late, in about all areas of a lot of peoples lives

i chose not to live that way

all i can do is give my own experience. i cannot decide for another. is theirs to do and create. if he wants to spend the next how many years fighting and being angry, so be it

i chose not to. i am raising children. and not an enviroment i want to create for them

[nini]

48. What the hell does raising children have to do with not allowing

others to destroy your property?

I think someone tearing down a wall/fence around my home is a big issue. We're not talking he puts his trashcans too close to my driveway here. I can see not complaining about that to keep from bickering with my neighbors. But tearing down a wall?

However, there are situations you have to stand up for your rights and your property. Standing up for what is right is good for children to see too. I surely didn't want my son growing up thinking it was ok for others to crap all over him and destroy his property, then for him to just turn the other cheek to keep the peace.

We're talking lots of money to replace it on top of the fact he did not have a legal right to do so. Just let him come over and break out all the windows.. same principle.. he destroyed this guy's property.

[Lerkfish]

51. right, beyond the sentimental value of the rustic fence, its the $$

I'm not in a financial position right now to spend thousands replacing what was a perfectly good fence.

[seabeyond]

54. arent the new owners replacing it?

[Lerkfish]

60. unfortunately, we have no idea.

the old neighbor would tell us nothing. We don't know if the new neighbors don't want a fence at all or are going to put up their own.
We've never met the new neighbors.

[seabeyond]

53. destroy property (really), around my home (a side)

this new neighbor is putting up a new fence. this isnt tear it down in destruction to piss a neighbor off and leave it there for all to see the mess

my children fought for their rights in a christian fundamentalist private school from pre-k on. they have spoken out for kerry, human rights, against a fascist state since spring a year ago. they actively campaigned for the democrat cause

i dont think it is an issue in my home, a person speaking out. i expect no less

the two pitbulls on the other side of my house calls for me to speak out

not the fence

the 58 guns taken out of other neighbors house, some illegal, some stolen, machines gun.....that is a bigger issue. not a fence

the drugs sold out of the other house is a bigger issue

but even the last two are less an issue than the pits

this is silliness, a fence, that will be replaced i am sure., unless the op is suggesting this is it. no more is going to be done by neighbor

[nini]

58. I didn't see where the new neighbors have been talked to at all

when you own property and share a fence it has to be a mutual decision to make changes to said fence if it is on the property line.

this idiot did NOT consult this guy before taking it down. Couldn't you tell by the post he did not agree to the removal of the fence?

Now he is faced with the cost of replacement. The new owners aren't liable as they had not assumed residence/ownership. Do you have any idea what the cost will be to replace a fence around his property?

This is vandalism at a minimum - which will cost this DUer quite a pretty penny to fix.

Sorry but there is a principle here which while different than drug dealing still has to be addressed. Because there are other assholes in the world that sell drugs or own too many guns does NOT make this ok.

As a homeowner I would be livid to have my property which I pay dearly for destroyed by some asshole.

[coyote]

29. hmmm....

petrol, car, matches....


Could you put a lien against his new residence?

[Ioo]

31. Sue, give him some issue...

Then you should find out where he lives... and move next door!

[LiberalAndProud]

32. How do the new owners feel about it?

What if they liked the fence too, or was fence removal a "condition of sale"?

Might this decrease the value of the property they just bought?

[doodadem]

33. Welcome to the club

We have been fighting with our nasty neighbors down the road from us since last Oct. The mother still owns the property, so when yet another alcoholic son who lived there managed to get himself killed, she moved back to the old homestead. She has tried to make our lives hell ever since, by trying to overrun us with her cattle--not even her cattle--she is "borrowing them" because she doesn't want to mow the grass. I herded the cattle back home about 10 times, continuously asking her to confine them, and even repaired her fence. That kept them in for about 2 months, until the people opened the fence back up again. I finally got sick of them eating my baby redwoods and crapping in my front yard, so called the brand inspector, and the sheriff's dept.

The access road for our ranch runs along the extreme northern side of their property. This is a road that has been in continuous use for 80+ years. They got the bright idea to fence off our main gate (the only way in) to keep the cattle out. We have had to hire a real estate attorney, who has been trying to come to a reasonable solution with their atty. for months. Now finally, we are filing an injunction, or restraining order. The first time you go to court, you get a temporary order from the judge, which the cops have to enforce. They will not do anything about what they consider a property line dispute otherwise. Then you go to court two more times, to finalize the order. It will end up costing several thousand dollars, and is considered litigation.

We have found out a couple of things: If someone is going to dispute a property line, they have a limited amount of time to do so after the property is sold. We have been here 4 years, so that time is long since past for this neighbor. If your fence was exactly on the property line, then both parties have an equal obligation to maintain it, and one side cannot do something to it without agreement from the other side. If you can't prove it was exactly on the property line, or on your side, then the judge may very well order a new survey. However, if it is an antique fence, been there forever as the property line, and you've been keeping it up, you may be able to make a case for what's called "adverse possession". That basically means, the fence has become the property line by default, as you've been acting as if it was yours for however many years. Google the term, and you'll get some good information.

I'd also recommend having an appraisor assess your remaining fence to determine value, so you know how much to sue them for--if he says not much, then you'll have to try a different tact.
Good luck! There are some real assholes out there, that just live to try to make other people's lives miserable.

[SoCalDem]

101. Call the health dept and say that the cows are walking funny, and falling

down..and you are afraid of mad cow disease.. They might impound the "herd" for observation and charge her :evilgrin:

[newportdadde]

35. Get a lawyer and stop him from closing!!!!!!

That is the best thing you can do. Get a lawyer, not next week, not tomorrow find one today and get going on it.

If he has bought another house then he won't be able to close on the new house and if he already has he will get the joy of eating two mortgage payments while this gets settled out.

Get a lawyer have him work for a % and sue for damages to your homes value due the the fences asthetic value. There is a good chance he will cough up the bucks quickly and even not you will ruin his day :)

[nolabels]

56. That would be sweet

Getting some kind of lean on title. Make him pay you back on the value

Then part of me says will all of be worth it, it's just a wood fence and the scum is now going to be gone anyway. You have already won for he is being vanquished from your day to day reality. Didn't you kind of want get a new and better fence on your own property anyway?

[Lerkfish]

63. well, no not exactly...

*WE* didn't want a new fence, we liked the old one. It was the jerk who tore it down who originally wanted a new fence, but we said no.

However, you other question of "is it worth it" is a valid one. If we can only get 3 thou from small claims, and it costs 500 to survey, and then its still iffy to be able to get money from them quickly, or no guarantee the survey would run in our favor (it could have been on his property, though I doubt it.) if all we can get by pursuing it is 2 grand or less, it might not be worth the aggravation. We might have to tear down the rest of the fence, since replacing it with our own money would be prohibitive.

[nolabels]

67. To me, getting a new fence was worth it

We have a couple acres out in what was once the sticks. We lived without having a fence around the property for eighteen years. Refi'ed and took money out to put a fence around it. That was best investment in this place we ever made.

I could not even start tell you about the desperate times with neighbors, just too horrible. Yea that fence is the best, now if that silly contractor would just get started on the new garage :shrug:

[Shakespeare]

76. NO NO NO--get yourself a good real estate attorney immediately!

You can likely block escrow closing on his house by initiating action (filing a lien or something more substantial). You should have a pretty clean-cut case (which an attorney will confirm, or not, for you), and the seller (your old neighbor) will probably be required to pay for the damage/repair, PLUS attorney's fees, by having a certain amount of money (whatever is settled upon in mediation or through a court judgment) earmarked from his equity/payout from the sale.

PM me if you want more details, but it sounds like you definitely have a case.

[sniffa]

93. onLy $500 for the survey?

:wow:

does that incLude the stamp?

[Lerkfish]

103. at least 500....

a phone estimate from one surveyor broke down to:

300 for the survey (up to 500)
100 for the certified report
and 100 dollars per hour if he has to appear in court.

[lonestarnot]

37. Hope you have pictures of the old fence tucked away and call a lawyer!

[MadHound]

38. A few suggestions

First, get yourself a surveyor to establish precisely where the boundary line is, and thus whose fence it really is. You will need this for court. And if the fence was completely on your side of line, have the ass arrested for vandalism, property damage, etc.

Second, get a good lawyer. You don't want small claims court, this was an antique, and you want replacement value for an antique, plus value loss of your property, plus emotional damage etc. This will come to well over three thousand dollars, so don't do small claims.
You might even get the judge to put an injunction on your neighbor's house sale until the case is resolved, that'll put a twist in his knickers:evilgrin:

Now you're going to have to do some research to find out the value of that fence. You could get an appraiser, but also do some checking around in out of the way places like eBay, etc. I know that antique weathered lumber, mostly from barns etc, it a hot decorating commodity, so you might want to use those prices as a guide

And yes, you can replace that antique split rail fence to match the one left standing. But it will take money, and that should come from your neighbor the ass. Who knows, by the time you get done, you'll be the proud new owners of his house:evilgrin:

[WePurrsevere]

39. You said you have a fence that matches on the other side?

That would indicate that a previous owner of your home had it put up. If the fence was never disputed it could be considered by law yours and on your property depending on where you are located. Did you have a survey done when you bought the property? There are a few variables that might work in your favor over what the sheriff says. I would definately call a lawyer.

edited to add: Has the actually closing taken place yet? If he's still there I'd say not so the house still legally belongs to him contrary to what he told you. Oh.. and ask your lawyer if you or they should contact the Realtor for your neighbors property and ask them very sweetly if the buyer knows the fence was torn down. They may have wanted it up and if he's destroyed it they might back down or offer a lot less. Of course the bad news in that if they back out he'd still be your neighbor and even more of a jerk.

[GreenPartyVoter]

62. Good points, all!

[nini]

41. If the house is in escrow.. he's still the owner ..

why would he still be in the house if the sale had closed?

even if escrow had closed and he wasn't the owner.. more the reason to sue or press charges as he destroyed property that wasn't his. I doubt any of us can go somewhere and pull down someones fence and then use "I'm not the owner" as an excuse. It actually makes things worse for him.

get some legal help and go after that bastard.

good luck

[Toots]

43. Fences have an inside and an outside

If the inside was on your side you have a legitimate suit.

[Lerkfish]

45. thanks everyone for the advice, I need to clarify at least one thing:

I was possibly misusing the term "antique" for the fence. It IS decades old, but now that I think about it, I dont know how old something has to be to be considered "antique".

now, some comments on various posts...
1. yes, the fence completely encircled our back yard on all sides. For that reason, we considered it "ours" his yard does not have a fence, so he has no fence connecting to it. I think there might have been one there at one time, but not in recent history.

2. We're resigned now to either pulling up the whole fence and not having one, or replacing the whole thing since there's no way to match it.

3. a person asked why the fence was important when we bought it...we have a small child. Its a lot easier to feel comfortable letting them play in the backyard with a fence, and its an attractive rustic addition to the property, adds considerable character.

4. I've left a message with the lawyer I'm having handly my personal injury lawsuit already, where a woman ran a red light and broke my collarbone, gave me a rotator cuff injury and has had me in therapy for a year. I don't know if he handles anything other than personal injury, but his firm is THE LARGEST firm in the area so just using their name strikes fear in people. If anyone is close to Dayton, Ohio, you would recognize the firm is Dyer, Garafalo, Mann and Shulz.

5. I'm not sure what stage the sale is in, they were moving stuff in a uhaul last night so it might already have gone through. Unfortunately, they used to have a realtor's sign up but they took it down now, and it was an offbrand realtor and we can't remember which one it was.

6. er...can't remember the rest of the questions...

but thanks a lot guys! a lot of good ideas there.

[BikeWriter]

55. A survey would show whose property the fence is on...

Generally anyone fencing entirely around a property will inset the fence a few inches to prevent property disputes. I would bet this was done and the fence was entirely yours.

[flvegan]

47. Specifically who owns the fence? "straddles our two properties" can't

be right. It's ON someone's property (you can find out if it's yours by looking at your title insurance policy...the fence should be an exception...or shown on a survey). If it's on yours, it's a criminal matter. If it's on his, it's his fence.

Either way, lawyer up.

If you want to be a total dick, file a claim of lien on his property for the fence. Get his legal description and pay the recording fee for the one page document. Good luck with that closing, repuke asshole.

[alfredo]

52. Malicious mischief. Have him arrested.

[SouthernDem2004]

79. Afraid he can not.

A judge would have to settle the dispute of whose property the fence is on. The Police do not get involved in boundary disputes.

[alfredo]

82. but if the fence was found on your property, then could it be seen

as a matter for the police?

[SouthernDem2004]

84. If it was clearly on his property then yes it is criminal. Problem is

that it was not or atleast thats what his post state. The Police do not settle property line disputes.

[Lerkfish]

87. property line undetermined officially at this point, but

it would cost me 500 to determine for certain.
However, my gut tells me its on my side, just not certain its worth spending 500 on an uncertainty.

[Lars39]

98. You need to know your property for when the new owner puts up his fence

You don't want to take your property line for granted.

[sniffa]

100. are there any existing ties to the property Line

you can whip out a tape and get an idea quicker (as opposed to waiting for a survey).

[GodHelpUsAll2]

119. You should not

have to pay a surveyor. When you bought the house you should have got a copy of the survey with all the other closing papers. You should be able to pull that out and see who's property the fence was on. The city should also have one on file. That is what is generally used along with a visual inspection to assess your property value for tax purposes.

edited for typo

[alfredo]

116. they need to do a survey to see exactly where the property line is.

[kiki]

59. Tell him he's a fine example of a Bush voter...

...and that you know now, if you didn't before, that Dubya's Republican Party is the party of vandals, criminals, and selfish assholes.

[geomon666]

65. If I were the man I was a few years ago...

I would loosen all the bolts holding his wheels to the car and tape the wonderous event that would take place as he would attempt to go to work. Or puncture his radiator and drain all the fluid out.

But I'm better than that now. :)

[FreedomAngel82]

66. So immature

How immature and lame. What a jerk. My little four year old cousin acts better than him. (which isn't saying much)

[ucmike]

68. get a estimate for a replacement

then go to the county clerks office and file a lien against his property in the amount of the estimate. he won't be able to close until the lien is released. county clerk will walk you through it, at least they will around here. even if you never get paid, it screws him up and costs him extra legal fees for the closing.

[Lerkfish]

69. UPDATE: the question is moot.

after doing a lot of legwork, it appeared I was going to have to hire a surveyor, upwards of $500 to determine actual property lines...

but when I got home last night, the new neighbor had all the materials delivered for a new tall privacy fence. I got to talk to the new neighbor this morning.
As I suspected, the old repuke neighbor had lied to him, telling him it was his fence and it was ok to tear it down, never informing the new neighbor of the previous disputes.

The new neighbor was horrified and apologetic, and wanted to make things right, but as we FURTHER found out, the reason he was putting up the high solid fencing was for his large ROTWEILER. Under those circumstances, I'd rather have the new kind of fence than a split rail fence. Just not sure I'm happy about the dog next door with my 7 yr old...

so...out of the frying pan....

[barb162]

73. A few things

This sounds like a great solution, a high solid fence for a rott and you don't have to pay a cent.

If you don't know the property line, I suggest you find out asap as the new neighbor may put the fence up on your property. A new survey and a few hundred bucks will be well worth it. Perhaps you can lower the cost of the survey by just doing the one side with the one neighbor?

Are we talking a few inches or a few feet as to the "disputed" property?

Ususally when a new buyer comes in, the property lines get resurveyed, at least around here. Is that the case in your area?

[Lerkfish]

88. a few inches, I am thinking.

somewhere in the neighborhood of 8 inches to a foot.
That's why I'd need a surveyor to say for sure.

As far as I know, new buyers are not required to resurvey. At least we weren't.

[Divameow77]

74. If the fence circled your yard

and was only on one side of his property why would anyone believe it was his fence?

[Lerkfish]

89. dunno.

I talked to the new owner, a young kid, his first house. My impression was he sincerely was under the impression from the previous owner that all was fine.
He fell all over himself apologizing.
When I told him the previous owner lied about the fence, he nodded and said, that didn't surprise him, so apparently there were other issues with the sale.

[Shakespeare]

78. You're still entitled to seek reimbursement....

...for the cost of your fence.

[Lerkfish]

90. agreed. the only issue is whether its worth it at this point...

I'm thinking its not. If it replace the fence, it will literally be up against the solid wood privacy fence, which would be kind of unweildy to mow, etc. besides looking strange.

[barb162]

97. but maybe it never was his fence since it may not have been on his

land. This subject screams to me: resurvey

[newportdadde]

81. You should still sue.

Don't let this guy get away with his behavior he tore down YOUR fence. And while your at it get the property surveyed you dont want the new fence your neighbor is building to be on your property.

[Lerkfish]

91. My conversation with him this morning...

we talked about where the place the new fence. I told him I wanted it more on his property, and he agreed to adjust it.

[Mr Rabble]

83. Rottie's are great dogs.

They are great with kids. There is no reason to be worried about your childs safety, unless this dog has been abused or raised badly.

[Lerkfish]

85. I have no way of knowing that for sure.

I don't know these people well enough to know how they've raised their dog.

[Lars39]

71. What was the type of wood in your rustic fence?

Sometimes those types of fences are made with hickory, or even walnut, if they're old enough. Not a cheap thing to reproduce.

[Lerkfish]

92. Its very old and weathered, I'm not sure?

my guess is hickory, but I'm no wood expert.

[Lars39]

96. That could be a more expensive fence than you think to replace then.

[msrbly]

72. Sounds like things are working out

but it still might be worth your time and money to have a survey done before the new fence is installed. Maybe the new neighbor would even split the cost with you. If the new fence is over the property line on your side you could run into serious problems in the future. As an attorney who has dealt with propertly line disputes many times, I know how ugly these things can get (worse than domestic disputes sometimes) even between neighbors who get along.

[Lerkfish]

94. I won't have time. He's installing it today, trying to get it done

by this weekend so they can move in. that's why the rush, with his dog, they can't take possession until he has the fence up.

makes me wonder, if he's one of the "good" rottweilers, why is the owner that concerned about making sure he has a 6 ft solid fence up first?

[1932]

75. Take him to regular court then. The first thing you should do is get

estimates of the cost of replacing the fence.

The second thing you should do is get a free consultation with a lawyer or two and pick one you like to bring the case.

The third thing you should do is get a copy of your police report, especially if it contains ad admission that the guy pulled the fence down (that's going to make proof in court very easy).

Since the guy is selling his house, he'll have some money, and therefore, you'll almost definitely get money from this.

[SouthernDem2004]

80. I doubt there was a Police report. This is a civil dispute. /nt

[1932]

99. Did the police come to the house?

If they didn't respond to the call, then there won't be a report, but, if they came to the house, and even if they ulitmately told the OP'er it was a civil matter, they would have had to base that on some observation. And if they wrote in the report that the guy admitted tearing it down, then that's evidence and you could probably avoid the trial altogether if the cops have that in the report.

[Lerkfish]

104. neither owner was home when the sheriff's deputy came over.

nor did he offer to talk to the owner.

old owner never said whether he had any connection to the act of tearing down the fence, only that it wasn't his property anymore so not his problem.

However, from the conversation this morning from the new owner, it appears the new owner tore down the fence, based on intentional misinformation from the old owner.

[Lerkfish]

95. I don't think there's a police report...

the sheriff deputy came over, but I don't think a report was filed, we just had a conversation, and he said it was probably a small claims court issue. He DID think the old owner was a prick, though.

:)

Already got a free consultation from a lawyer who told me the same thing.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

77. What happened to the fence? If it's missing, wouldn't that be theft?

Especially if it's worth a lot of money - then it would be grand larceny. Maybe one of your other neighbors witnessed them taking down the fence.

[Lerkfish]

102. we know NOW that the new owner took down the fence,

from the conversation this morning.
he piled the wood up in his own back yard for disposal.
he offered to put the fence back up, but he broke several posts removing it, and it seemed pointless if it was going to be right next to his larger privacy fence.
A split rail fence only looks right if the open spaces are....open.

we really don't have a choice at this point, because the fence is going up today, not enough time for us to get a surveyor. We could still sue, but by that point, it would be a mess to have them tear it down, and the fence wouldn't match, etc. etc.

basically, we're just screwed on it. I don't see a wonderful win-win here, I just see a "not losing everything" scenario.

[barb162]

106. you might want to contact your own insurance company

for them to reimburse you for the loss of that part of the fence (if it ever was your fence on your land).

If the new owner is putting the new fence up on land that is undisputedly his land, it sounds like win/win to me. And it will keep his large dog off your property.

You seem not to want to write about surveys any more, but why be averse to knowing where your true property lines are? How do you know you don't have 3 feet extra on that side? The new guy could still be putting his fence up on your land and the longer it stays that way encroaching, the harder time you'll have getting rid of it. Especially when you decide to sell some day. I think the lawyers here will always tell you it's better to know where your land begins and ends and to take care of encroachments NOW rather than later. (end of pontification/preach)

[Lerkfish]

107. I'm not averse to surveying, I just don't have the scratch at the moment

believe it or not, i have less than 500 in my bank acct.
If I thought it would lead definitely to a 3000 small claims settlement, ok. But at this point, its a risk I can't afford at the moment.

[barb162]

110. I understand and see my post below.

I think you'll be okay. This new neighbor sounds very responsible putting up the fence before he moves in. I wish I could tell you how much I envy you!!!!! I got several quotes on high solid fences here and we are talking thousands of bucks and it would be for keeping trespassing neighbors and dogs out. This guy and his dog won't be trespassing on your property.

How do you feel about contacting your insurer for the cost of that section of fence.

[barb162]

109. PS to previous

I have an idiot neighbor with a big lab and 2 brat punk bastards that are always on my property and we have had words, as in, WE HAVE HAD WORDS. I would love to find some way to force that pug bitch and her pug husband to put up a big fence rather than calling the cops every time they are on my property. You are not seeing right now how lucky you are that this new neighbor is keeing his dog off your property and that you don't have to spend thousands putting up a big fence yourself. That's where I draw the line, a big high solid fence costs thousands... it's cheaper to call the cops. But it makes for miserable neighbor relations.

[Lerkfish]

111. right, that's what I was saying..

once I found out about the dog, I saw the wisdom in not pursuing it...I'd rather have a large solid fence keeping the dog in than risking the dog coming in our own yard.

so, like I said in another post, not the end result I'd prefer, but its not as bad as it could be.

[lynne]

108. You might want to try to file an insurance claim -

- under vandalism coverage. However, since the police could not criminally charge him because of where the fence was situated, that might prevent the insurance from paying under vandalism. Might be worth a try, though.

I would suggest that you verify the property survey first. If the fence was on the actual property line, your neighbor may be considered a co-owner due to its location.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

112. Mooted (eom)

DTH

[NancyG]

113. The old neighbor was a prick, but

You have an opportunity to have a positive relationship with your new neighbor, which is worth its weight in gold. The guy sounds reasonable and seems like you could build a friendship with him. That's so much nicer to come home to, a home with a good neighbor. We're liberals, open-minded, and good relationships are good things.

Nancy

[mtnester]

114. Laywer up

You can go beyond small claims court and get your attorney fees as part of the settlement. In Ohio where I live, the only time you cannot get lawyers fees is when it is a contact dispute (believe me I know about this as we are about to sue someone for the first time in our lives and it sucks!)

And here is the other deal...if you let assholes like this hit you with their left shoe, they will then pick up the right shoe to throw at you also....or the next guy.

[DURHAM D]

115. Google Montgomery County Ohio real estate - see if you can

find out what person/firm had the listing - it might still be up. Ask your neighbor who his buyer's agent was. The agents are also responsible for what has happened here. Call the Real Estate Commission and find out how to file a complaint and call the real estate firms - ask for the Broker in Charge. Agents have malpractice insurance for just this kind of mess. I would file against both of the agents - they tend to pay up and move on.

If the listing is no longer up and the neighbor won't tell you who his real estate agent was you can look at the county's records.
If your tax records and/or register of deeds records are online you can use the street address to look at the new deed. (may take a few days or weeks to update the records). If you can't wait go to the court house. From that you can figure out who was the closing attorney. (If Ohio allows closings without an attorney you will still be able to find out who did the closing) From him/her you can probably get the name of the real estate firms involved in the transaction.

Good luck and don't back down.

[NancyG]

117. I've been thinking about your situation all day.

You have just been relieved of a terribly unhealthy situation. That prick neighbor is now gone. Since it was the new neighbor that took down the fence, unknowing of the mistake, you have no claim on the old neighbor. Just celebrate that the asshole is out of your life.

The new guy is a chance for having someone next door that is a help rather than a pain in the ass. He sounds like he didn't care for the old guy much either. This is a chance for a fresh start.

I hope this new neighbor can bring you joy. Take the first step and welcome him. Casserole, anyone?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

118. emenient domain...he can build a more expesive one

[friesianrider]

120. You'd better pursue legal action!!

What a complete jackass! He clearly thinks there's nothing you can do. I'd definitely pursue legal action. Go after him for whatever you possibly can and get the PD to file some sort of report. See a lawyer!

Go nail that bastard for this!