wanna homeschool? excellent.

[ulysses]

You can come take one of my kids.

Let me tell you what my kids are like.

My kids are growing up in the West Side Atlanta ghetto. Vine City, to be exact. Check it out, if you'd like.

My kids generally don't grow up with their dads. Their dads are usually in prison. Last school year, I probably had (and I say "probably" because it was occasionally difficult to determine who the parents were) one student with a present father for every eleven with an absent father.

My kids don't get read to early on. Actually, they don't get read to at all. I hope you homeschoolers out there have better remedial reading strategies at hand than I do, because although mine work, they work slowly. I hope you have the magic key. I hope you'll share it with me some day.

I hope it's something other than "separating my kids from the poor kids."

[thinkingwoman]

1. the hostility and sarcasm in your post

reflects on you, not on individuals who homeschool.

[ulysses]

2. I'll readily own up to the hostility and sarcasm.

Let me know when you're ready to address the subject.

[thinkingwoman]

4. I don't address this subject with

people who have already made up their minds. What's the point?

I talk about public schooling and homeschooling with my ex and current spouses (in relation to homeschooling our children), and my sister, step-mother, and mother-in-law (who are all dedicated and excellent public school teachers).

Not a one of them expresses such hostility or sarcasm. Not a one of them feels threatened by our decision. Not a one of them advocates placing our children in public schools.

The anti-homeschooling bias expressed by a handful of posters on this site is disturbing, and, frankly, inappropriate for a site committed to freedom and progress.

I'm sure you'll find more than a few people to bounce your ideas off of. Have fun.

[ulysses]

9. "freedom and progress"?

When did I abrogate your freedom and progress? If you homeschool, knock yourself out. You don't need my approval. You may expect my comments on the subject - that free expression thing - but you shouldn't expect any attempt on my part to keep you from doing what you wish with your own children.

[thinkingwoman]

17. Your OP states otherwise. nt.

[ulysses]

21. how so? n/t

[thinkingwoman]

26. not interested in playing this game

have a nice day.





P.S. you can have the last word. enjoy.

[ProfessorGAC]

34. And Your Mind Is Open?

It sure doesn't seem like it from the tone of your posts, ma'am.

You can have your opinions, but certainly ulysses is entitled to his as well.

As long as there is a sentiment that homeschoolers avoid the public schools to avoid poor children, you will fight a battle, even against liberals. Until homeschoolers can discuss the issue without taking umbrage against any critique, then the assumption will be that the decision to homeschool is based upon a "holier than thou" attitude that's unlikely to garner respect.
The Professor

[thinkingwoman]

40. speaking of holier than thou

pot.kettle.black.

So, should Jews be forced to exlain how they didn't "murder Jesus" because "there is a sentiment" that they did?

Should African Americans be forced to explain how the color of their skin doesn't make them inferior because "there is a sentiment" that it does.

I've seen plenty of homeschoolers on this board discuss these issues day after day after month after year until they talk themselves blue in the face. What I have NOT seen is the sarcasm and hostility in their posts that they encounter with the anti-homeschooling crowd.

As for respect...history is filled with examples of respect not being given even long after it has been earned. Pardon my lack of need for your approval.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

48. I still don't get the point of the original post.

I understand there is some rhetorical crux to it, but I can only assume what that is. I hate to assume someone's major point; I rather have it laid out for me.

Do you know the point to the original post? You've responded to it, so I imagine you know what exactly it is you're responding to.

[thinkingwoman]

56. Honestly...

I thought I knew, but now I'm not so sure.

I give up. It's dinner time here.

[WMliberal]

92. the OP is saying it's a form of "white flight"

I don't think the OP is far off in that regard. How many poor, urban folk can afford to homeschool?

My "on the other hand" to the OP is that whether or not their kids go to public schools, they still pay taxes for it.
The de facto segregation that makes funding inequities between urban and suburban areas (I point this out since most homechooled are from rural or suburban, not urban areas) are more at the root of the problem pointed out, not homeschooling itself.

[ProfessorGAC]

49. I Wasn't Expecting You To Get My Approval

But, since you brought up the pot/kettle thing, i read the first exchange with ulysses. Your mind appeared no more open than his, yet you cut off the exchange because his mind was closed.

How does that make me holier than thou? And, if you could remove the chip from your shoulder, you would have noticed that i agreed with a point you made later in the thread.
The Professor

[thinkingwoman]

53. you're making assumptions

about me.

[ProfessorGAC]

58. Huh?

What assumptions? I just asked a question and you got chippy. Later in the thread, you said something with which i completely agree and said so. You assumed ulysses had some attitude and got mad. You might be right, but then we have to assume that too. We make constant assumptions when participating on a message board. We're not face to face, and only a few of us know a few others, personally. Assumptions are both necessary and natural.

That being said, what did i assume about you?

The Professor

[formernaderite]

85. avoiding poor kids?

that's a new one I've never heard...most schools have become economically homogenous. Wouldn't a homeschooler be avoiding kids just like themselves if that were the reason they opted out of public school?
I think most opt out for religious reasons, and there is a sector who opt out because they have educated parents who feel they can do a better job. More power to them.

It is a pity to me that so many kids go to schools where everyone is from exactly the same socio-economic group. The way new developments are built, will certainly not change this.

[DemExpat]

98. I also have never heard of this angle before ......

when I thought long and hard about homeschooling my 2 kids in the 80s this reason never entered my imagination for what it was I was trying to achieve for them...

:shrug:

DemEx

[Modem Butterfly]

107. The last time this came up, someone I liked said...

...that they homeschooled because they didn't like the racial makeup. Yikes.

[Zhade]

44. You accuse him of something he didn't do...

...then you run away when called on it?

Why not answer his questions? He has a point.

[thinkingwoman]

47. did you read the OP?

The OP calls out homeschoolers to "take" the poster's kids and educate them, unless we homeschoolers really are doing it to keep our kids away from poor kids.

The OP was hostile, sarcastic, condescending and argumentative. What is the point of engaging that?

Still, I did discuss with the OP until it devolved even further. I have better things to do. Sorry if you don't.

[POAS]

54. You say

" What is the point of engaging that?"

So why did you engage it then?

Are you just being argumentative and sarcastic?

[thinkingwoman]

57. just being stupid I guess

I know better than to open these threads. They always make me feel like there is no room at DU for me when I know that's not true.

[Zhade]

94. I did, and I think it's a worthy question.

I didn't find it hostile, though.

[tsuki]

45. I'll address it now. In Florida, you cannot "homeschool" other people's

children.

[GoneOffShore]

3. Homeschoolers, by opting out

of the public system, are destroying the public schools. Much the same way that people who refuse to use public transport are destroying it.
Build it and they will come. Use it and improve it.

[Southsideirish]

5. You are 100% correct. I'm always surprised when I hear 'lib'rals" who

home school - they should be supporting their local public school system not trying to tear it down like the fundies.

[thinkingwoman]

29. "lib'rals" started the modern homeschooling movement

in the 1960s and 1970s. The fundies came along in the 80s and 90s.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[thinkingwoman]

72. my two homeschooled kids

have turned out more liberal than me, I must admit.

But they got their initial leanings from their liberal parents, and their freedom to pursue a liberal arts education in a liberal household.

[October]

104. Yes, my daughter too is VERY liberal now...

In school, she was asked by friends "Which church to you go to?" ad nauseum. When she was younger this used to make her feel funny, like an outcast. Now that she's older and has studied various religions in her World History text, she's more comfortable than ever in her secular-based home life.

As I stated in another post, my daughter did a report on Islam, and learned a lot about the history of Christianity, etc.

I guess a lot of people assume we're doing this for religious reasons, and obviously some people do. But I think that is rapidly changing.

There was a time I could not find anything but Christian-based curricula...but now there is so much available! It's great!

[Tsiyu]

95. And what qualifies you to make such a statement?

Please explain yourself.

[POAS]

96. Please explain what?

I don't understand why your asking me to explain myself or justify my question.

Oh wait, you didn't call it a question you called it a statement. Now what "statement did you think I was making?

Let's look at what I said, not at what you think you read.

The poster I was answering made a direct call that "thinkingwoman" is a "'lib'ral". It is right in the subject line.

I wondered to myself, before making my post what, is anything, that I read in the thread so far would lead one to conclude that "thinkingwoman" is a liberal, I couldn't find anything to lead me to that conclusion.

As I have no other knowledge of "thinkingwoman" except what I had read in this thread up to that point I felt that the assumption that whe is a liberal may be unfounded therefore I asked the question challenging the original poster on his/her assumption.

Now I have a question for you "buddyhollysghost".

What qualifies you to miss-read my post and challenge me? Certainly not your critical thinking skills, they are OBVIOUSLY suspect.

[Tsiyu]

99. Righteo

You've explained yourself well.

I suppose since thinkingwoman has a star by her name, indicating she has actually donated to DU, she might just be a Dem, and by that definition a liberal. She certainly is supporting this site, which is a liberal site.

You see, I've never read any of YOUR posts. You are a relatively new poster. Perhaps take this advice: search someone's past posts before trying to disparage them. Because I can't find anything in your posts that would lead me to the conclusion that you are trying to help DUers, i will read some of YOUR past posts.

I found your post rude and insulting in a passive/aggressive way. Only my opinion, of course.

Been a pleasure, I'm sure....

[POAS]

100. Actually I don't find it a pleasure at all

Show me where I disparaged "thinkingwoman" by pointing out to another poster that he should not assume someone is a lieral simply because they post here.

Even if I was implying that "thinkingwoman" is not a liberal, rather than suggesting that someone not ASSUME that to be the case how would that be insulting? Are you implying that only liberal are worthy and therefore to infer that one is anything other than a liberal is an insult?

Here is a direct quote from your rude and insulting post in an aggressive way.

"You see, I've never read any of YOUR posts. You are a relatively new poster. Perhaps take this advice: search someone's past posts before trying to disparage them. Because I can't find anything in your posts that would lead me to the conclusion that you are trying to help DUers, i will read some of YOUR past posts."

Now lets take this one paragraph apart shall we.

1. "I've never read any of YOUR posts." Ok fair enough we are strangers.

2. "You are a relatively new poster." With respect to DU you are most certainly correct as is easily determined by my numbers. You and I are strangers however and this is our first encounter. Youe have no idea how many other boards I post at or for how long I have been doing this. Your assumptions need some work I think.

3. " Perhaps take this advice: search someone's past posts before trying to disparage them." You are handing out advise to me, a person about whom you have just said, "I've never read any of YOUR posts." Do you not see a contradiction? perhaps you do not and therin may lie a problem with your logic.

4. Referencing back to number 3 above I must ask you again how is reminding someone not to make assumptions disparaging and even if my intention was/is to imply that "thinkingwoman" is not a liberal how is htat disparaging?

5. "Because I can't find anything in your posts that would lead me to the conclusion that you are trying to help DUers" BUT you just said you've never read any of my posts except those in this thread. Are you confused or attempting to deceive or just not paying attention to your ownself?

6. "i will read some of YOUR past posts." So now that you have aggressively attacked me you decide to go do a little homework. You have no shame.

I hope that you did not find anything about your encounter with me to be pleasant, that will make us even.

[October]

67. I'm a liberal who home schools

In PA, the schools don't lose funds because of homeschooling.

Also, I home school my daughter because she's pursuing ballet as a career, and she dances more than 25 hours a week. It's just an efficient use of time.

We tried it this year and love it. We've actually pushed her into a new level of geometry. Unexpected. She fell in love with Science. Unexpected. She wrote a report on Islam because of her study of World History and all that was going on around her. She reads and we discuss the front page issues on the NY Times. She's taking Biology at our local Community College (I can't provide a lab at home), but would've been shut out of that because she was on the 2nd tier of math. Our school is small, so not everyone gets into their Biology class (you have to be in the top math class...which now she is...but only because of homeschooling).

I view things a lot differently from some of the posters here. I support the teachers and public school, but they've let me down too by keeping my daughter out of Biology, etc., even though I knew she could handle things, etc. She didn't "test" well enough to get into the higher math program -- but she tested well enough to get into Chemistry at our local Community College!!!

She finished her Science textbook early, so added Russian to her curriculum. She's never been more enthusiastic about learning now that all the restrictions and b.s. has been removed from the process.

We're not members of any religion, btw. And, it's interesting to note that even in our little Northeastern U.S. town, which is very tolerant and openly accepting of the gay community, there's quite a right-wing infiltration in our district. They're up in arms over the fact that there's no "Christian" symbols allowed during the holiday season. They are screaming over the fact that dreidels are on display, but they have to settle for snowmen! (Could I make this up!!!)

Anyway...public schools in my day were very liberal. They're not now.

We had an art show in May, and the paintings of Bush (very opinionated and negative), along with the nude self-portraits were put behind a black curtain with a sign that read "Not admittance without a parent." Originally, the "parents" had made a sign that said "Adults Only." (Again, could I make this up?) They made political discourse and nudity "shameful" by hiding it. The funny part was...every kid made a b-line to that curtain! It was the most inviting/fascinating part of the show.

I asked the art teacher about it (my son is still in the school system and he had a piece in the show), and she said the school was flooded with calls last year, so they had to do something to appease the parents. She added that "it's societal."

Unfortunately, the liberals didn't know anything about this...or couldn't mount/fight against such censorship because no one knew till you walked in! My friends and I still don't know how the "other side" arranged for the curtain, etc. There was no discussion, no debate, no compromise. They set it up to appease 6 parents. Period.

I digress.

Homeschooling suits various needs for liberals too. We love it now, but my son loves recess and his friends, so it works for him to be in school. The "No Child Left Behind" Act is seriously screwing things up. It's test, test, test all the time...and the teachers are frustrated. They've lost a lot of independence and have to conform.

The fundies are no longer tearing down public schools -- they're calling the shots! My friend is running our local School Board -- and it's vicious. You cannot imagine how low these people will go. And they want Intelligent Design. They don't run their campaigns on this...they get in playing "moderate," but they have an agenda.

Sorry to be so long here...one last point.

Here's the trick our School Board has been using. We have 9 members. When someone's term is about to end...they resign. Then, the board gets to APPOINT someone to replace that person. This has been going on for some time, so that right now, we have 6 of 9 members who were never elected.

I know I've digressed...it's just that homeschooling vs. public school is not the right argument. It's not "us against them." We have 6 families in our district who are homeschooling -- and they're supportive of us. They cheer my daughter on as she pursues her dream.

[thinkingwoman]

71. wonderful thoughtful post

You said so much that reminds me of our experiences over the years. Thank you and best of luck to you and your family.

[October]

103. Thank you...I appreciate your reply

I saw a typo (too late to edit)

My friend is running for school board...not running the school board. LOL Bad typo.

Anyway...homeschooling for us is a tremendously efficient use of time. We have more time as a family to travel, visit museums, hang out... It's so freeing.

[Iris]

101. Yes. I especially like that you pointed out that public schools were more

liberal when we were young.

I live in Georgia. The best school system in the state is the one that was recently in court defending the evolution stickers in their biology books. Why would I want to send my children to a school that is only going to teach them what the current administration wants them to know?

Further, why would a parent want her child to be sitting at a desk all day long with no recess except for a 20 minute lunch break where he can buy junk food provided by corporate America?

[October]

102. Good points

My daughter worked 4 hours a day and accomplished so much more. She finished her Science textbook, World History Textbook, Health textbook...and added Russian to her studies. Her own idea...since she studies ballet, she figured French AND Russian would be perfect, as many of her teachers are French or Russian.

Anyway, we worried when the evaluator came at the end of the year (retired school teacher from nearby district -- approved by our district as an evaluator)....we worried when she came because we only got up to page 230 in her Honors Geometry textbook. Get this...she was amazed at all our daughter had done, and in how she very maturely presented her year's worth of work...but she said if their district gets to 100 pages in their Geometry Textbook, they're thrilled! So, we were fine...but this whole process has been VERY enlightening.

Thanks for your response.

PS -- I had teachers who wore "peace" signs, and I recall one teachers necklace that read "Make love, not war." I was too young to understand it...and I recall thinking "How does one 'make' love..." LOL

[Iris]

110. Yep. I was educated by "the hippies" as well!

Ecology units every semester, open school, etc.

[October]

114. Wasn't it cool!

I thought it would always be like that.

[Iris]

115. Me, too! I guess that's why I'm so bewildered and bitter now.

In fact, my 5th grade teacher was a man. He and his wife also managed a campground and that's where they lived! About 5 years ago, I noticed his name in a database of INSURANCE SALESMEN I was using at work!

talk about depressing.

[thinkingwoman]

7. this is the biggest myth

what is the percentage of homeschoolers in this country? Their impact on public schooling is statistically irrelevant.

Public schools are destroying themselves. As long as false finger pointing continues, the real reason, and the cure, can never be found.

[ulysses]

10. so what *is* the problem with public schools?

:shrug:

[Beaverhausen]

15. How about an administration hell bent on destroying our education

system?

Put the blame where it belongs!

[thinkingwoman]

18. well said. nt.

[hiphopnation]

111. ...

not that simple. Certainly it's *one* of the problems, but there are a multitude of others. Adequate funding comes to mind. Lots of the blame belongs at the feet of this admin, but there are many different factors at play here.

my $0.02

[thinkingwoman]

16. purpose, focus, teacher training,

low pay, difficulty firing bad teachers, lack of support, imposed curriculums, too much testing--which requires "teaching to the test", safety (from outsiders in bad neighborhoods as well as bullying inside the schools), funding, funding, funding, funding, funding, sports-worshipping, arts-shunning, dumbing down, pressure to pass kids, pressure to graduate kids, lack of curriculum flexibility, all-or-nothing rules and regs that limit a teacher's ability to connect with students and tailor learning on a case-by-case basis, funding, funding, funding, funding, funding....

just to name a few problems. It is obviously a complex issue, as anyone with any years in education knows first hand.

None of those problems, however, have anything to do with a significantly insignificant number of homeschoolers.

[cmd]

38. Funding, funding, funding

is the exact problem. Every single child who is taken out of the public system takes part of the the support for the other children in his class. I've worked closely on school finance over the years and understand the impact of funding, funding funding.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

42. Since you've worked closely with funding, could you give me some numbers?

I'm not challenging your claim. Some stats. would help me see through a major obstacle to the discussion here. Many claim homeschoolers drain money away from public schools. How much? Doesn't one still have to pay property taxes (if applicable to the area) whether one's child attends the public school or not?

Any SPECIFIC info. on $$$/numbers from any state would be helpful. I've yet to locate a good source for the specific numbers.

I have to imagine, just based on simple government mathematical principles, that re-introducing homeschoolers back into the system would be REALLY expensive.

[cmd]

73. One size does not fit all

It depends on the state you live in and the district in that state. In order to simplify the issue let me do in in fictional numbers. Take an average classroom of 20 students and say that each student in that classroom received state support of 3000; then the state would be paying 60,000 dollars toward the education of the children in that classroom. That's 3000 per student. If one student leaves to be homeschooled, the expenses for that classroom remain exactly the same. However, now the state is only paying 57,000 toward the education of the students in that classroom. Instead of state support of 3000 dollars per student, the state is now supporting that classroom at 2850 per student.

Each state is different. Each district in that state is different. Each classroom in that district is unique. The expenses for a classroom remain the same, no matter how many students are in it. One student leaving takes that state money with him. The other children lose.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

78. Thanks for your reply.

I understand the general theory behind loss of money, but I would like to see real numbers.

I think your numbers are actually a theoretical rendering of a theoretical rendering of a state budget (California, for example). I've been looking around for specific mandates reagrding $$/student but haven't found any. I'd love to see how they're structured.

I'm assuming homeschoolers still have to pay taxes to support public schools (as do people without children). I think this is perfectly fair.

Thanks again for your response.

[cmd]

87. Contact the treasurer in your local district

That office can give you the specifics you are asking for. There are so many variables that come into play. My "example" would be for a self contained elementary classroom. You can imagine how confusing the numbers get when you are looking at a high school curriculum. However, the general theory remains the same. Classroom cost will be constant regardless of the number of students in the room. Loss of students is loss of funds.

Yes, homeschoolers do have to pay taxes, as do people without children. In Ohio, homeschoolers get state money to purchase materials for educating their children. I don't know the laws for other states.

Thanks for your response. cmd

[thinkingwoman]

43. this is a two sided argument

but a valid point.

The question that keeps getting brought up is this...there's no spending on students that aren't in school, so how is that money a trade off?

Where we currently reside, there are a handful of homeschooled students for a school system with approximately 1800 k-12 students. All administrators I have spoken to agree that having them in the system would make absolutely no dent in their bottom line.

The true funding deficiency is that per student funding is part of the equation.

edited for word order and question mark.

[Book Lover]

83. But if the school doesn't have the child in the seat

then there's no expediture on them. How does it affect the school? To the numbers, it's as if the kids don't exist.

[suziedemocrat]

11. I agree with you thinking woman.

I substitute taught last year because I was out of work. I also substitute taught in 1989 in the same school system. I could not believe how awful schools have become. If I had children I would absolutely home school them. The Public school system where I subbed was a nightmare. I'd never want my kids in that environment.

[thinkingwoman]

22. my relatives who teach

echo what you describe. My sister, step-mother, and mother-in-law are all career public school teachers with more than 20 years each in the field. They teach in different states and three different economic areas, and they teach three different age levels (elem, junior high, and high school). ALL three say the same thing. It's pervasive, and sad.

[October]

105. My cousin is a teacher in an "excellent" district

She just had her first child.

She works in the most desirable district in PA...and she wants to homeschool her child.

I was flabberghasted.

[GoneOffShore]

14. I'm sorry, but

I feel that anyone who opts out of the public system, weakens it.
If you're taking kids from a well rounded home out of the system you're depriving the kids who are left in school with yet another good example and influence.
It's those tiny, seemingly insignificant chips at the foundation that bring public schools to the brink. It allows people to say, 'Look, people are taking their kids out. The system isn't working, let's privatize it. Let's close it down.'
Public schools are "great, good, public spaces" that have a civilizing effect.
I feel that that all education should be publicly funded. Close down the Catholic schools, close down any religious school that tries to teach anything but religion. If you want your kid to get the cathechism, send him or her to religious school at the end of the regular school day.
And I have no room to grant tax breaks to homeschoolers except under the guise of medical situations for special needs kids.

[dogday]

24. This is ultimately about your child's education and

enviroment.

[thinkingwoman]

25. feelings aren't facts

You are entitled to "feel" any way that you want. But people homeschool because the public schools don't meet their needs, not the other way around.

And I never asked for a tax break. I too feel that public schools should be funded publically. I have no problem with my tax dollars going to educate my neighbor's kid.

Hostility to alternative schooling is misplaced, however. America's public schools are struggling enough as it is, they could never handle the forced reintegration of all of those private and homeschooled kids.

[jhain]

27. sacrifice your own kids, then.

I PTA-ed and fund raised and room mother-ed and teacher aid-ed , supported every budget vote, battled every administrator and propped up every weary, good hearted teacher for over two decades as I, personally, saw to my older children's success DESPITE the public school system.

Show me more than a handful of parents willing to put themselves aside, sell a car, buy a smaller home, take a pay cut, quit smoking and/or drinking to 'fix' their school's problems and I'll be back there in a flash.

The parents ARE the problem. In the 80's my local district had about 300 kids K-8. Parents literally ran elections to fill PTA spots. Now? Over 3x as many students and NO PTA.

My younger kids are HOME.
I'll not ruin 180 days of their lives every year in a constant, futile attempt to save our schools.

[BeTheChange]

39. So am I supposed to sacrifice my child for the good of all?

Noble and all but the fact is, when I have children they will go to a private school. They are my number one priority and if the environment provided by the public school system is not conducive to their healthy growth then I hold no obligation to it. I pay my taxes regardless. My husband and I will not expose our children to what we experienced.. which judging from my 3 sisters who are teachers, is only getting worse.

[gollygee]

46. So no individual rights?

Is that what you think liberalism is?

I don't think homeschoolers should get tax breaks - we agree there. And I'm firmly opposed to "vouchers" that take money from public schools and give them to private schools. If parents want to homeschool, that's fine, but they should do it at their own expense.

[LeftyMom]

80. I don't want a tax break

As is I pay twice, for public education then for my son's private home education. I'm not exactly rolling in dough, but I'd rather do that than sacrifice some autonomy for a tax break or public funding.

Does keeping LeftyKid home weaken schools? Well in some areas the schools are badly overcrowded, but here enrollment is declining, because families are moving out the the better schools in the burbs. So one more butt in the seats isn't unwelcome, and another another unit of per-pupil funding might be of some small use provided my son could be educated for less than that amount requires, which is unlikley.

That's the thing about homeschoolers. We're dedicated and demanding. If our kids were in school, we'd be insisting on whatever programs they needed, be they gifted or special ed, on art, on field trips. We aren't content with a bare-bones education, so it's not as if keeping our kids in institutional schools would be a cash cow. They'd probably bring test scores up though, provided we let our kids sit the tests. I certainly wouldn't.

[WLKjr]

35. No, the damn representatives and congress are destroying them

I have witnessed it first hand here in Ohio. Mike Oxley doesn't care and neither does Bob "tax" Taft.

[snacker]

8. You are sooo right.

We need to strengthen our public schools, not cut-and-run.

[nonconformist]

13. Even worse is some want to selectively opt-in for select programs nt

[thinkingwoman]

32. I have no desire to opt-in

and neither do most homeschoolers I know.

Like you, I have read of those who do, especially for sports. I don't understand it, frankly.

[ProfessorGAC]

37. We Have Found A Point Of Concurrence

I don't understand opting out half-way. We're in complete agreement on this point. Parents with this ambition to be involved in their kids education would do wonders for the system itself if they worked within it. Applying that energy at home, then expecting the system to accomodate the other aspects (especially sports) seems selfish and untoward.
The Professor

[thinkingwoman]

52. excellent

It is good to be able to agree on at least one point.

I agree with this post as well, but would caution you to remember that some homeschoolers work for years within the system before deciding to homeschool.

I can't count the number of volunteer hours I put in at my kids schools, and would not want to. I would do it all again in a heartbeat and may return to volunteer work once my kids are grown. Although there are plenty of lazy/inadequate parents (in all economic levels) for the most part parents are wrongly blamed for what is wrong with schools, and so are teachers. True blame rests with administration and government.

[ProfessorGAC]

60. I'll Add Another Fault

The teaching schools spend far too much time on pedagological training and not enough time on people skills, idea presentation, and content knowledge.

My wife's a teacher and she complains about this same thing all the time. She's in her early 50's and she says it's getting WORSE not better.

Now, i don't blame the teachers. They are just learning what they teach while they're in college for 4 years or more. The curriculum in teaching colleges needs to be adjusted to make sure teachers are more content knowledgeable and better able to "lead" through the ability to engender respect. The best teachers i ever had in grade and high school got respect the moment they walked in the room. They just had "it". The schools need to identify those folks better.

At the same time, if we didn't pay teachers like fast food servers, it might encourage a wider array of candidates so the best of the best end up teaching our kids.
The Professor

[thinkingwoman]

70. Again, I agree

The vast majority of teachers are not at fault. There are bad apples in every barrel but most teachers are doing their level best in difficult circumstances.

Training is dreadful. I went all the way to student teaching before changing majors and I did so because I had not been taught anything--not subject matter or practical hands on knowledge of how to relate to kids of different age groups and backgrounds, how to find time for one-to-one teaching in a classroom environment, etc. My three relatives who teach in public schools agree with your wife and that it is getting so much worse as time goes by.

They absolutely should be paid better, and their hands should not be as tied as they are.

[hughee99]

61. So it's more important to support public schools

than to make sure your children get a good education? I, personally, went to public schools, but if a parent feels that their child will not get a good education at a public school, then should they send them anyway? So what if the child doesn't get a proper education, as long as the public schools have plenty of students? Do you also feel that sending your children to private schools is wrong, because in either case, they are not attending public schools? How does putting more children in a public school guarantee that the conditions there will improve?

IMHO, the most important thing is to make sure that children get a good education. If that can be done at a public school, that's great. If it takes private schooling or home schooling to accomplish this, then I'm fine with that too.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

74. I went to a mediocre public school, but my parents supplemented my

education with lots of books, travel in the summer, music lessons, and visits to cultural events. I studied two years of French on my own, well enough to examine into second-year college, and since kids in those days weren't overscheduled, it wasn't a burden.

Would I have had a better academic experience being homeschooled? Probably, but I would have completely overdosed on my mother and grandmother, who were over-protective and breathing down my neck all the time.

(I've run into a couple of homeschooling parents who are in that intrusive mode, never giving their kids any space, hovering over them all the time.)

I hated summer vacations and was eager for September, because it meant that I could be out of the house for six hours a day.

In the long run, going to a mediocre public school didn't hurt me, and it was a valuable sociological education. It was where I first saw economic injustice, mean and dumb behavior, and heavy-handed authority. I was a bit of an outcast, and it was not pleasant, but as Anne Sullivan says about her experience in the workhouse in The Miracle Worker, it made me strong.

[hughee99]

84. It sounds like you had a good experience...

I also went to a mediocre public school and turned out okay. I wasn't very clear in my original statement, but I was refering to bad, not mediocre public schools. My thinking is that if at the end of the day, a parent will have to teach a child almost everything because the public school they would attend is so bad, that's when home-schooling or private schooling is a better option. Social skills are best learned in a school environment, but if that's all a child is learing at school, then he/she is being short changed. While sending children to public schools may increase the funding, there's no guarantee that conditions will improve, or improve fast enough for those children to benefit. This is not a situation where I think kids should have to "take one for the team" to improve public school education down the road, it's too important.

[skooooo]

75. I have to agree...

...we should support public schools. That's one very important place where community begins.

[Book Lover]

82. Did you know

there are districts that have homeschooling programs? http://www.pacificasd.org/homeSchool/program.htm is the one near where I am

The Homeschool Program is open to parents of K-8 students who wish to teach their child(ren) at home full time. It allows parents to design a program based on their child’s individual learning style and to monitor his/her progress. An experienced, credentialed teacher provides assistance to the parents in lesson planning, testing, and obtaining educational materials. Homeschool families receive a periodic newsletter and have opportunities to do special projects and field trips together.

May I also point out that your assertion also applies to students in private brick-and-mortar school as well; do you harbor the same animosity toward them?

[mzteris]

91. Public school

destroys some children..... They were destroying one of mine.

I know many children whose needs are NOT being met by the PS system. Special needs kids. Gifted kids. LD kids - all of the above in various and sundry combinations.

There are HS Mensans
There are HS Buddhists
Chinese homeschoolers
Liberal HS'ers, Unschoolers, Gifted, LD, GiftedLD, Secular, dysgraphic, dyslexic, Classical Education, etc. you name it.

I never dreamed we would be Hs'ers - until they kept sending my bright motivated 2nd grader home in tears because he was bored out of his freakin' mind. We went all the way to the School Board TRYING to get a better program implemented and were told - "it's the Principal's school. She knows what's best for your child." Bullshit.
She was a complete control freak LOON who got mad because all of my son's teachers, the AG coordinator, and the school psychologist had all agreed that my son should be bumped up a grade - and we made that decision without asking HER opinion. So she refused to let him skip. (She's not even a QUALIFIED teacher. She has a degree in School administration!)

I hear similar stories daily from parents frustrated by schools' inability to teach/help their children. Especially special needs/LD and/or the gifted children.

Do you know what we call NCLB in the HS community? No child gets ahead.

They want all the kids homogenized. They teach to the test. They don't teach critical thinking skills. Just memorize and regurgitate. DOn't ask questions like WHY???? Don't for god's sake bring up anything you're "not supposed to know yet" because you're not only confusing the kids, heck the teacher may not even understand what you're talking about! They teach to the nonexistent "average" kid. They teach to slightly below the middle of the room. The kids that need extra help get it in spades, the kids that are bright? Forget it. Go read a book or something. . . 504 plans and IEP's that are damned near impossible to GET in the first place and then never implemented correctly or consistently.

I have another son who is currently going to a Charter School. As long as it's working, fine. If it doesn't, - he's home with me. (BTW - my younger son WOULD HAVE BEEN one of those "poor minority kids" but we were fortunate enough to be able to adopt him. I shudder to think of the life he would have had otherwise. ) FYI - there is an growing HS movement in the AA community by parents who are completely fed up with racist teachers as well as the "if you're a good student you must be a sell-out mentality" that is currently pervasive in the AA community.

PS needs fixing. You all know that. *We* aren't destroying the system, it's doing it just fine all by itself. But I'll be damned if I let it destroy my kid(s).

[ulysses]

6. no one willing to take on my kids?

Damn. What a shock.

[JitterbugPerfume]

20. your kids

need and deserve the knowledge and experience only to be found in a certified , educated teacher

I do not envy you your job

but I do respect you for doing it

[ulysses]

23. hi, Jitterbug.

I'm not asking anyone to envy it. I'm asking that folks respect teaching for what it is.

[BigEdMustapha]

36. I certainly do respect educators

And all I would ask in return is that you show a little respect to your fellow educators who choose to do their educating at home and not in a public school.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

12. I don't quite get the gist of the post.

Why would someone who homeschools want to homeschool one of your kids? Why would they take the offer? If this is a rhetorical offer, what point are you trying yo make. I don't doubt there's a point, probably a good one, but I'm just not seeing it.

Help me to understand the point of your proposition. I'm kind of slow. Perhaps you could be a little more straightforward?

[Kraklen]

19. Nah, home school's for white kids. We gotta keep em seperated.

Apparently.

[dogday]

30. Hippies started the homeschooling method

and I don't know what race they were. They just did not trust the system.....

[Kraklen]

31. Really?

I thought it got popular with desegregation.

[dogday]

33. Actually it goes further than that when the pioneers

used to teach their own children, because they would be miles from anything. I guess you can read into what you wish. Hippies tended to revise the movement.

[tsuki]

55. No, she's right. The Hippies started it.

[LeftyMom]

81. no, that's just when the white/HSLDA/big hair and a jumper

wing of the homeschool movement started (it got much bigger when a change in tax law in the early 80s made small church schools unprofitable) and started trying to speak for the people who were already homeschooling, who were for the most part liberals and civil libertarians who wanted to give thier children a better rounded education.

[qanda]

62. Ah, I'm black and I homeschool my children

BTW, I live in a predominately white school district. What's my excuse?

[Kraklen]

63. Nah, I wasn't talking about you.

Or all homeschoolers. Just a large number that do based on race.

[Igel]

86. You have a number for that?

Most homeschoolers I know, white or not, Xian or not, didn't bother to mention race.

Xian values, kids' grades falling precipitously, people getting beat up, violence, drugs, teachers not having time to teach, or teach what the parents considered important ...

And this was in a school district that was really and truly overwhelmingly white, we're talking <2% all other (oh ... and those? Children of university professors and the occasional lawyer).

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

65. There must be a heavy gay population in your area then.

}( :sarcasm:

Because people would never want to educate their children due to the simple fact that they believe they could do a better job, have the chance to spend more time with their children, have talents they'd like to pass on to their children (foreign languages, musical instruments, artistic talents) that aren't taught in the public schools.

Does it have to be a negative reason one wants to homeschool? Why does it have to be racially motivated or due to the failure of the school? Can't a school district be successful and a parent still want to homeschool his or her or their child--simply because he, she, or they desire to do so?

[mzteris]

93. Now that's just BS

There are AA homeschoolers, and more every day.

I HAVE A BLACK SON. So you definitely need to step back.

[BigEdMustapha]

28. I do wanna homeschool

To answer your first question, I will not take one of your kids.

To answer your second question, it is not to separate my kids from the poor kids.

I homeschool my boys because I can do a better job of teaching them than my local school system can, and I am blessed with the opportunity to do it (my wife does not work and I work from home) - simple as that.

[gollygee]

41. I want to homeschool and live in a wealthy school district

stop making assumptions, and stop painting all homeschoolers with your broad brush.

[Pithlet]

51. Try to understand where he's coming from

It's never fair to make broad assumptions. I know that all homeschoolers aren't rich, white, privileged right wing fundies. I haven't even made up my mind yet about the form of education my kids will receive. But, I don't blame him for how he feels.

[AnnInLa]

50. Letter to the editor from a first-year teacher...Baton Rouge, LA

Mods...if the 4 paragraph rule extends to letters to the editor, feel free to delete...but, I think this guy wants his letter to be circulated.

www.2theadvocate.com/opinion


Numbers from a first-year teacher

I recently finished my first year as a high school English teacher in a Baton Rouge inner-city school. When I heard that Gov. Kathleen Blanco had finally given up hope on the teacher pay raise, I was predictably upset.

As I followed the debate over the proposed $1-a-pack cigarette tax, I couldn't help but notice how obsessed the officials and experts are with numbers (two-thirds majority and five votes short…). So, I thought I'd supply them with a few other numbers from my first year of teaching that they might find enlightening …

170 - 190: the number of students I taught.

29: the number of referrals I wrote for students being disrespectful to me or for misbehaving in class.

12: the number of referrals I wrote for students who verbally refused to work.

10: the average number of hours I was at school each day.

8: the number of fights I recall breaking up (but there was only one in which a student bled on me).

4: the number of freshmen I taught who became pregnant during the year (sorry, but I'm currently unaware of the number of abortions).

3: the number of students caught with guns during school (one of whom was arrested two doors down from me).

2: the number of teachers who had to be taken to the hospital for injuries because they tried to break up fights (one of whom broke up a fight the second week of school and whose injuries kept him out the remainder of the year).

1: the number of "thank-you" cards I received from students.

1: the number of students I taught who were charged with murder (she also has a baby, but I didn't count her in the pregnancy tally because she had it in middle school).

1: the number of graduating seniors stabbed to death on graduation day (a few additional numbers on this one: The murdered special-education student was 21 years old; his alleged killer was 41 years old. And the number of dollars their argument was over? $10. Incidentally, the man was charged with manslaughter, not second-degree murder.).

0: the number of state senators, representatives, governors or mayors who came to visit our high school out of concern for the education and safety of our city's children.

Please don't misunderstand me. I love teaching, and I'm looking forward to next year. Ninety percent of the kids I teach are great, and I never have problems with them. These numbers aren't just unique to me or my school; they're indicative of a much larger problem in most of the state's public schools, mainly that the real needs of both teachers and students are largely (and often quietly) ignored.

But one last set of numbers: 11, 18, 16, 31, 35, 41. These were the lottery numbers suggested to me today by my fortune cookie fortune which read, "Diligence and modesty can raise your social status." Hmm ... must have been written by one of the Republican House members who refused to give me a pay raise.

John Dillon
Baton Rouge

[earth mom]

64. My sons school is filled with yuppie rich kids...

we're middle class. I'd say You Paint With Too Broad a Brush as to why parents homeschool.

The reason I'm thinking of homeschooling has more to do with what would be best for my child for a variety of reasons, though the snobby attitudes of some of the kids and parents have a little bit to do with it. I'm not thinking of homeschooling for religious reasons either-since we aren't of any religion. Mainly my reasons are for safety, and yes, because I think I can do a better job than what he will get in the "special" program he's in which doesn't seem so "special" any more.

[demgurl]

66. I will put myself out there for all to see.

If I felt I could do a reasonably good job and not let my kids down in any way, I would homeschool them. I have no problem with different races or different economics than the one we live ourselves. I have a friend that I once gave money to because her family was borrowing teabags from the folks next door since they did not have anything to eat. A cup of tea was their supper. I later loaned that same friend $350 so her Dad would not lose their house.

I have friends right now in just about the same economic situation. My best friend is mailing off her mortgage a week late this month because of their finances. So economics, or lack thereof, has nothing to do with how I wish I could homeschool.

The reason I wish to homeschool has to do with a mix of a couple of things. One is that one of my children went to a public school last year and it was terrible. I, along with several other parents, were in the office almost every week complaining. Nothing ever seemed to change and the final straw for me was when one of the children was put in danger because of the teacher and the principal did not even seemed concerned. This is a child who jokingly tied his shoes together - a 5 year old boy who was taught a lesson, by the teacher, by making him keep his shoes tied together the entire day. It was then that I decided my boys would not be going to that school next year. Could I fight the school system? Yes, but it is much easier to try to find something different because nothing seemed to be working at that school. I am in the middle of a two year law suit against my mother so please excuse me if I do not have the emotional energy to go to the school board and go up against school officials.

The next reason I would love to homeschool my children is partially from experiences I had and partially from things I have heard. One of my teachers was biased against homosexuals and failed me on a story I wrote. I am my kid's mom and I have the most influence over them. I will not have a teacher imposing their belief system on my children. I will not have a teacher failing them because the teacher does not like what they wrote. It is fine if it is below par but for no other reason. I have heard of other cases like this as well.

The reason I do not homeschool my children? Because I am not sure I am up to the task. My youngest is very stubborn and much harder to teach than my first. This is the reason they are going to go to a charter school 40 minutes away next year. It was not an easy decision but we feel we made the right one for our kids. By the way, a charter school is still counted as a public school so we are not taking away funding from public schools.

Why are they going to a charter school? You only officially have a choice of one school and that is the school for the district for which you live. There are also magnet schools which we applied to but we were not chosen for their lottery. You will be interested in knowing that magnet schools are usually schools in poor economic districts that institute specialty education courses to attract people who are not living in the bad socio-economic area. But as I said, we did not get in. The only recourse left was applying for a school outside our area and going through the application process and pleading our case. I could have done this but like I said, I am emotionally drained at this point.

We decided the path of least resistance was to apply for a lottery at the charter school and we actually were accepted to that. It is still a public school so it is fine and I will not have to put up with the antics of the old school where I worried, daily, about my son. I am sorry, but I do not think it is acceptable for teachers to yell at kids and I bordered on getting banned from the school property because i was so upset at the school.

If I felt I was up to the task I would homeschool but I am a big enough person to know I am not. Homeschooling, for us, would have nothing to do with whether there were poor or rich people in a school. In fact, at our last school, my son and I made loads of friends with the parents and students. Every time I walked into that classroom I had no less than five kids race up to hug me. On the last day of school they fought to sit at a table with me. Also, they always asked if they could come over and sleep at our house.

[etherealtruth]

68. I could not have more respect for "good" teachers ...

My experience with the public school system is that most teachers are adequate. More than a few are exceptional and of course there are are very poor teachers. The good and adequate teachers are grossly under payed and under-appreciated. These statements probably hold true for every profession.

I have sent / am sending all of my children to public schools. I volunteer occasionally (not as much as I should, but more than many others at our schools). I am generally very pleased with the academic and social progress of my children.

I do NOT believe in school vouchers. I am a LIBERAL and I DO NOT have a problem with people choosing to home-school their children.

My preference is that my children interact with a multitude of people in varied settings. This is what I believe will serve my children best. I cannot make that decision for other parents.

We have been able to live in wholly adequate (often good) school districts. My children do not have special needs or concerns. Their trek to and from school is "safe" ------- If I could not say all of this I don't know that I would not consider homeschooling.

[Tsiyu]

69. Actually A Chicago System (If I remember correctly)

began using a homeschool program (Calvert) to teach inner city kids and had a fantastic success rate. I'll try to find a link.

I pulled my kids out to get them away from racists and the rich fundy kids and the Southern Baptist principals and teachers, thanks.

They spent a year in an inner city private church-sponsored school ( Lutheran) where they actually got to go to school with children who were not Caucasian. They were homeschooled and spent time with homeschooled children living in poverty as well as the children of more affluent parents.

People homeschool for many reasons. And I would love to adopt every one of your students if I had the space and resources. I treated those children at one of the children's hospitals in Atlanta. The heartbreak of seeing their childhoods stolen from them chills me to the bone to this day.

They breathe the worst air, drink the nastiest water, attend schools that need updating desperately, on top of living in home situations that are not nurturing or supportive of their academic progress.

There is a fallout from incarcerating black males at the present rate. And it is sorrowful what we spend on war, when one considers the very basic needs of the community where you teach. Just a scant fraction of the warmongering $$$$ could change lives forever.

You are a hero for what you do. :hug:

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

76. No doubt this post has something to do with your post about

the goals of public school. Why do we have public schools? How do we envision these entities? I think this is a valuable question. And it's a question many here have thought about and answered with their own homeschool curricula.

I'll cut-and-paste my response to your other post:

Because when all else fails--like not finding a job, finding an unfulfilling job, finding a great job with shitty pay, finding a shitty job with great pay--when all this fails, at least when one is educated, one can read and appreciate Dostoevsky, Chaucer, Camus; one can name the basic functions of the human body; can ask basic questions of the cosmos; ask basic questions about the self, about being. The modern university (and by extension public elementary and secondary ed.) has gotten away from its roots in the liberal arts. I don't mean to imply that the modern university needs to be a liberal arts institution; they should, however, get back to the basics, the foundations of human existence--literature, languages, sciences, and history.

I'd rather be a ditch digger who could read Ovid in Latin than a CEO who would ask, "Who's Ovid?"

I don't mean the preceding to be an either/or, false dilemma. I realize there are many places in between--AND these places in between should be the BASIC goal of education.

[LeftyMom]

77. If I had an extra room

I'd tell you to put one or two on a plane. Really. Few things tear me up more than kids with lousy home lives and no books.

I don't homeschool out of an insensitivity to these sorts of problems, I see them in my friends and neighbors and I do what I can. I homeschool because I don't think it's fair to teachers or kids to try to teach thirty kids with different needs, backgrounds and interests at the same pace.

Really, I have no idea where this "homeschoolers don't respect teachers" idea comes from. I have little respect for the system, because I don't think it works. I have all the respect in the world for teachers, because my family is full of them.

[Bouncy Ball]

79. You have one out of every ELEVEN with a dad in their life?

Man, that's a high ratio. I probably had one out of twenty whose dad was around and not imprisoned, dead or just missing.

But why the hostility to homeschoolers?

Here's my situation: we both have to work to pay the bills. But if I could quit my job, I'd give serious consideration to homeschooling our daughter.

But there's one thing that would bother me about it: I like the diversity of kids and teachers in her school. I like the fact that she is around kids of all different races, nationalities, religious beliefs, etc. I think she is better for it, they learn from each other, and I'd hate to take her away from that.

That directly contradicts your thesis that people homeschool to keep their kids away from "undesirables." I'm sure that DOES happen. But not in any kind of meaningful amount. (Statistically meaningful, that is.)

[youthere]

88. I'm not really sure what the point of your post is...

because it sounds as though you are painting all homeschoolers with an awfully broad brush with the "separating my kids from the poor kids" statement.

[Igel]

89. It's been said that part of the problem with the public schools

is the parents.

I feel sorry for the kids. I'm struggling to take care of my own; and I don't expect to have a public school teacher take responsibility.

My wife's parents believed in public schools, in rural Arizona; both have PhDs in biology, tenured (but posted at a research station far from campus or any city). The local high school had no AP classes, most kids had no interest in school, but it did have a high drop out rate and teen pregnancy rate; it was minority white, almost entirely poor or working class. Lots of abuse hurled at them for being college bound when they were in high school; finally the school got a program set up so that a community college teacher would come out to the boonies to teach some of the courses officially offered, but which nobody on staff could or had time to teach. Of course, there were only two students in the classes: my wife and her younger brother. My wife's parents had to agitate for that after their oldest kid had passed through the system and crashed into college.

My wife's a tenure-track professor in linguistics now. Her brother is dissertating in geophysics. Neither has the slightest intention of exposing their kids to the kind of environment they were forced to learn in.

Their older brother didn't have somebody to teach them additional classes, just teachers that had to teach to the lowest 25% of students in the district, nothing beyond general math and English: my brother-in-law is a college drop out, he does odd jobs to make ends meet. He inherited a lack of respect for teachers from his public school days. Sad thing is, he's smarter than the guy dissertating in geophysics, and quite possibly my wife.

I figure that my wife's parents learned from the public school's mistakes with their oldest kid and corrected them.

[LWolf]

90. Wouldn't it be great

if every public school classroom could be more home-like? A nurturing home, of course! A low student-teacher ratio, a flexible schedule, an individualized curriculum, lots of one-on-one time, less bureacracy to deal with?

What would the outcome be, if we could offer that to every American child, no matter where they came from or what was going on at home?

[really annoyed]

97. Your kids are not my responsibility

I went to a public school in the Detroit area. I was one of two kids in my English class to have a Dad still living at home. When the parenting class could bring in a child for a day, my classmates brought their *actual* kids. I got made fun of for being the "moral" kid.

We all put up with crap in our lives. Don't take your aggression out on homeschoolers - who come from all walks of life.

If you are disappointed in your children's education, take matters into your own hand. Don't blame a small segment of the population for your problems.

My mother worked two jobs and my father ran a business - but yet, they still found time to keep up with my school and what I was learning.

[Modem Butterfly]

106. I've been to Vine City. Not many people willingly spend much time there.

Heroes aren't always found in comicbooks.

[ulysses]

108. *please read*

Y'all, I apologize for starting this thread. I'm surprised it's not in the archives by now, but I kind of wish it was. I was a little frustrated the other night, and let it get the better of me.

My apologies again.

[qanda]

113. Ulysses, I hope you are feeling better

I take my hat off to you. I only teach my two children and sometimes it seems like an impossible task. I can only imagine how difficult your job must be. I grew up in a school district that was a lot like the one you described and even though my dad bailed on my mother, and pretty much left us to fend for ourselves, my four sisters and I managed to beat the odds.

Even though I will continue to homeschool my children, is there something that I should be doing to help make your job easier?

[DaveJ]

109. Hmmm

Ulysses, sorry so many people misinterpreted your post. I think I agree with your point. My stepdaughters go to a public school in the city. It's really awful how the rich separate their children from the rest of the kids. Although the kids around here are poor, they really are good kids though. I think they are better than the rich kids and will ultimately be stronger as a result of their life experience. But they are isolated from the rich kids for now. We're on the wrong side of the fence.

[ultraist]

112. Blaming homeschool parents for our public schools' problems is misguided

As many noted, parents homeschool for a variety of reasons. They may have a child with health care issues and can't deal with the absence policies. They may have a child with learning differences and don't want their child labeled and tracked, as so many public schools do with children who don't fit the cookie cutter model. And of course, some homeschool for religious reasons, safety reasons or because they oppose the industrial age, institutionalized environment.

But, it's not homeschool parents that are dragging our schools down. It's our society's failure to address key components in facilitating success for ALL children. Racism, classsim, sexism, permeate our policies and institutions and public schools are not exempt from this.

It's not by accident, but by design that nearly 50% of our African American children live in poverty. It's not coincidental that lower income and minority children do not have the same opportunities that wealthier white children have.

Until we address poverty and disaparities in equal opportunity on a macro systemic level, our public schools will remain a vehicle to perpetuate elitism in our society.