Aruba judge told son: No body, no case

[Tim4319]

I wish that all missing person cases would get the attention that this one is getting. But, I just read something that is real incriminating, in my view of things. I believe if they cannot find a body, the son and father should both be charged in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway girl.

<<snip>>
An Aruba judge briefly held in the disappearance of an Alabama teenager told his son -- who is still in police custody -- that without a body police would have no case, the island's chief prosecutor said Wednesday.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/30/aruba.missing/index.html

[amazona]

1. I'm glad all missing person cases don't get this attention

I was once a missing person. It was voluntary. I was about Holloway's age. I'm guessing the majority of teens and twentysomethings who disappear have disappeared because they want to be somewhere else. And maybe this is even true of thirtysomethings -- just look at the Runaway Bride. Young people trying to get away from situations or pressures or just to make changes in their own lives don't need this kind of hoo-hah on CNN every time they seek out a little peace and quiet.

If there is a murder, find the body and prosecute the crime. But don't throw people in prison on serious charges without solid proof that they are guilty of something other than drinking and shooting off at the mouth. This judge and his son could be bad guys. Or not. I want more proof. Right now, there doesn't especially seem to be any. I told my buddy, "I don't see how they can arrest these guys for murder when there is no body." Better not let CNN get wind of it or they'll arrest me too, I suppose.

[Tim4319]

2. I feel your point.

I was really speaking out of emotions. I too believe in innocent until proved guilty. I was just kind of speaking out of emotion. I am a first time father, my daughter is now 6 weeks old, and I was just caught up, thinking if this was my daughter, and a father, who is a lawyer, told his son something to the affect no body no case, I would be pretty upset.

[BamaBecky]

3. Question is: Why were father and son even having this conversation? n/t

[amazona]

13. why were me and my friend having the SAME conversation?

It's a big news story that can't be avoided. You really think people aren't discussing it? Especially if the man's son is a potential suspect? We are the verbal primate, last time I checked.

[BamaBecky]

22. Do you really think this girl just up and ran away?....n/t

[CottonBear]

4. Well, the father is a Dutch lawyer & Aruban judge so he should know.

I'm not familiar with Dutch/Aruban criminal law but there may be no way to prosecute someone without a body. He was probably just giving the son legal advice.

I think that she somehow drowned and was washed away in the heavy surf and fast currents. Could've been a terrible accident.

[Xithras]

5. There's no evidence that he had anything to do with it.

The kids only connection to the case is that he and some friends picked her up earlier that evening and were partying with her. He claims that he dropped her off at a local beach, and there is zero evidence that he's lying. Fow all we know, she could have walked down to the beach that night and been raped, murdered, and tossed into the ocean.

I'll admit that I don't always follow the "innocent until proven guilty" mantra myself, but there really should be SOME evidence before crucifying this kid.

[BillZBubb]

7. Uh, I beg to differ.

He first claimed he dropped her off at the hotel. When the survellance videos showed he never did, his story changed to "I left her at the beach".

Yeah right. The guy has already lied. He knows more than he is telling.

[ComerPerro]

8. Yeah but what would you charge him with?

And how would you prosecute it, besides, "He changed his story"?

[BillZBubb]

10. Making a false statement to the police.

That is the first thing. Just to keep him in custody.

He's the last person known to see her alive. He's already lied to the authorities. Therefore, he's suspect numero uno in any investigator's mind.

They obviously can't bring murder charges yet. But, he's got to be the main target of the investigation.

[ComerPerro]

12. Yeah, you charge him with lying. It would keep him

but I'm thinking without a body you wouldn't be able to do much.

[Kraklen]

9. There have already been a half dozen people arrested...

and released, with a couple of false confessions.

To quote police chief Quimby, "Eeeeh, that's some great police work there, Lou."

[Xithras]

14. That doesn't prove, or even incriminate, anything.

Look beyond the media coverage. The original story the guys gave was that they dropped her off at her hotel (the Holiday Inn). They later said that they actually dropped her off at the beach next to the Marriott. That sounds suspicious UNTIL you look at a map of the resorts in Aruba and realize that the Marriott, and the beach they're talking about, are right next door to the Holiday Inn. When they said they dropped her off at her hotel, does the fact that they let her out a hundred yards down the beach really make it a lie worthy of persecution?

And honestly, even if they did make it up deliberately and deceitfully, who the heck could blame them? Imagine being in this situation: A pretty blonde vanishes, the global media descends on your hometown, an obvious witchhunt is brewing to find the culprit, people are being dragged in off the street and questioned without any real cause, and suddenly you find all of that focused on YOU? Many peoples first instinct, especially when we're talking about 17 year old kids, would be to quickly tell them whatever they want to hear to get the focus off of you.

Think about this for a moment...what if he really DIDN'T do it? What if all he did was have a nice night with a pretty American girl and take a walk with her on the beach afterwards? What if, when the girls face appeared on every television station and newspaper, he simply decided that nobody would believe the truth and instead told a drastically simplified version of the tale just to get the police off his back? Occams Razor says that the simplest explanation is probably the correct one, and I'm far more inclined to believe that this kid told a little white lie to protect his ass, than I am to believe that three otherwise well behaved kids brutally murdered an innocent girl AND have unwaveringly maintained ther innocence ever since. We're not talking about gangland street thugs here...Vandersloot is a pampered little rich boy who must be going through his own personal hell. I believe that if something happened, there would be some other indication of it by now.

By the way, one thing that all sides agree on is that Holloway was drinking that night. For all we know, she might have simply decided to take a midnight swim and drowned. It happens every year at hundreds of tourist resorts around the world...the only thing that makes this one different is that we have a rich little foreign boy to villify.

[LisaL]

18. You story is not even close. The brothers say they dropped

her and Joran at the beach. Joran admits he was alone with her on the beach, he says he left her there and walked home. The beach is not close to the Holiday Inn, it's quite a distance away.
And don't forget the innocent security guards they accused of walking her to the hotel first.
:eyes:

[Xithras]

20. You're completely incorrect, look at this map

IMO, it's media misrepresentation. It makes better sound bytes to make it appear that he dropped her off far from her hotel than to admit that he just dropped her off next door.

Look at this map:
The distance between her hotel and the Marriott is only a few hundred yards...it's a three minute walk down the beach.

As for the guards, I again remind you that we're talking about a teenage kid here. I don't know about you, but when I was a kid, CYA was job #1. The only thing his lie indicates was that he was freaked out by the kidnapping accusation, and by having millions of TV viewers suddenly placing him under a microscope. If I'd been him, I'd have given them all a high and hearty f*** y** too.

Again, the fact that he lied indicates nothing. Without some other evidence, there is absolutely no reason to susppect that he did anything. There's an extremely good chance that this kid is no more guilty of murder than that poor sap in Wisconsin who the media was practically accusing of murder until his whack job wife-to-be turned up in Arizona.

[LisaL]

16. Zero evidence that he is lying? In what freaking universe?

First, all three said they returned her to the hotel. They also accused innocent security guards as being last people seen with her, which led to the arrest of those security guards. Now, all three changed the story. So, there is a 100% certainty they have been lying.

[Xithras]

21. There's no evidence that they're lying NOW.

Look, do you really think they're keeping these three together? If they all changed to the same story, it's a pretty good indication that they're telling the truth unless you can prove either telepathy or outside intervention. The fact that they lied at first has no bearing, actual or legal, on the truthfulness of what they're saying now. These three were the only ones who were actually there, so barring outside evidence to the contrary they're the only ones in any position to gauge the truthfulness of their statements.

I'm not saying that the three haven't given people a reason for suspicion, but without any evidence to the contrary, there is no genuine reason to believe that their current story isn't the truthful one.

It's just as likely that Holloway drowned in the ocean or was kidnapped by some stranger on the beach, as it is that Vandersloot and his companions kidnapped, raped, and killed her.

[kskiska]

23. "Innocent until proven guilty"

only pertains to a court of law. People can speculate all they like, otherwise.

[Kraklen]

6. God forbid a father give his son legal advice.

Nancy Grace was going off her rocker (again) about this the other night. The judge told his son not to answer any of the investigators questions until he could get there. She said that was proof they were involved.

What a bunch of bullshit.

[bloom]

11. I think it sounds suspicious

not that you can convict on it.

Seems to me if I have the story right - that the son changed his story and said they went to a beach - but he didn't say which beach. It certainly does not sound like he is cooperating.

[Xithras]

15. He did say which beach.

He identified it as the beach next to the Marriott, which is next door to Holloway's hotel.

[LisaL]

17. No, it's not next door. There is quite a distance to the

Holiday Inn.

[Xithras]

19. Not according to the map

Google up a map of Aruba's hotels. They clearly show the Holiday Inn being next to the Mariott. In fact, there are photos of the Holiday Inn on the web that show the Mariott in the background.