I'm being bashed at work for calling Bush a war criminal!

[romantico]

Was I out of line? One person said I was exagerating BIG TIME!I don't think I was. Tell me(& be honest)am I being a bit too harsh on the Monkey?

[wyldwolf]

1. Depends on how you define war criminal...

...by the Republican standard or the UN and Geneva convention standards.

[ixion]

2. no, not in my opinion

I've maintained that he was a war criminal ever since he began a policy of invading soverign nations that had not attacked us and killing innocent civilians. By definition, this makes him a war criminal.

[WillParkinson]

3. Yes, you were...

You should have called him a G*DDAMN war criminal.

That would be much better.

[XNASA]

4. Moderation is the key, grasshopper.

I don't know the people you work with, or where you live, so I can't tell you if it was out of line.

Subtle jabs and reason seem to work better when trying to prove your point. If you calling w* a war criminal, you better have some facts at hand to back it up. Otherwise, you're just starting a flame war.

Good Luck. Better keep you head low for a while.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

5. You are absolutrly correct. Hold the line and show the facts.

Do your research and print out the evidence for your bashers to chew on. It can be very hard to change minds in a heated verbal exchange but reading can get through to the 'get-through-able.' Good luck and be brave and friendly.

[protect freedom impeach bush now]

6. 1945 quote Nuremberg Tribunals on starting war

1945 quote Nuremberg Tribunals on starting war


quote

"We must make clear to the Germans that the wrong for which
their fallen leaders are on trial is not that they lost the
war, but that they started it. And we must not allow
ourselves to be drawn into a trial of the causes of the war,
for our position is that no grievances or policies will
justify resort to aggressive war. It is utterly renounced
and condemned as an instrument of policy."

U.S. Supreme Court Justice Robert L. Jackson
Chief U.S. Prosecutor
at the Nuremberg Tribunals
August 12, 1945

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/jack02.htm

--------------------------

Bush and his PNAC cabal have now publically stated that
Saddam AND 9-11 are NOT connected -AFTER occupying Iraq.
AFTER Bush had implied AND implied OVER & OVER pre-occupation
that 9-11 and Saddam were linked.


STARTING a war is what is illegal.
STARTING a war is what is immoral.
STARTING a war of agression is what the Nazis were
charged with at the Nuremberg Tribunals.

Bush started a war of agression.
The Nazis started a war of agression.

[protect freedom impeach bush now]

20. Statement by Justice Jackson: "launching of aggressive war is illegal"

QUOTE -

"launching of aggressive war is illegal"

-----------


Statement by Justice Jackson on War Trials Agreement; August 12, 1945


There are some things I would like to say, particularly to the American people, about the agreement we have just signed.

For the first time, four of the most powerful nations have agreed not only upon the principles of liability for war crimes of persecution, but also upon the principle of individual responsibility for the crime of attacking the international peace.

Repeatedly, nations have united in abstract declarations that the launching of aggressive war is illegal. They have condemned it by treaty. But now we have the concrete application of these abstractions in a way which ought to make clear to the world that those who lead their nations into aggressive war face individual accountability for such acts.

The definitions under which we will try the Germans are general definitions. They impose liability upon war-making statesmen of all countries alike. If we can cultivate in the world the idea that aggressive war-making is the way to the prisoner's dock rather than the way to honors, we will have accomplished something toward making the peace more secure.

more..............

[Booberdawg]

7. He is, but I wouldn't say that at work.

Sorry. Not the place to pick a political battle like that.

[AWD]

8. Ask them their definition...

....of a war criminal.

When they claim you actually have to PERFORM the acts, ask them if Hitler was a war criminal. He ordered invasions on lies and hatred too.

Ask them where the WMD are. Then SHOW them this link from the US State Dept's own website!

http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2001/933.htm

Colin Powell's words are on this page...."He has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors."

Powell spoke those words in 2001.

Ask them that if they KNEW he had no WMDs, lied about it and invaded, how can he NOT be a war criminal????

[boxster]

14. I'm amazed that the admin. hasn't pulled that from the site. n/t

[Jacobin]

9. By implication it means your co-workers are war criminals

as I presume they are Smirk supporters.

That may be what pissed them off. Clearly Smirk is a war criminal. He attacked and invaded a sovereign nation on a pre-text and couldn't get a UN resolution to use force.

Its a violation of the UN charter we signed on to.

It's conquest and oil.

[Warren Stuart]

10. It's a free country, you're entitled to your opinions

Get over it.

[bowens43]

11. If a war criminal is someone

who launches an unprovoked attack on another nation resulting in the deaths of thousands of civilians , then yes , bush is a war criminal.

[oneighty]

12. No.

Bush* lied to we Americans for the sole purpose of launching a war of aggression against a country innocent of his charges. WMDs.

Many innocent people died as a result, including our very own boys and girls serving in our military.

IMO.

180

[jiacinto]

13. I don't see Bush as a war criminal

But you shouldn't be mixing politics with work. Unless the people there agree with you I would not bring politics into the workplace. It just creates problems and difficulties.

[AP]

16. I would definitely bring politics into the work place. This would be a

better country if people talked about the significant political issues of the day at work, rather than football and reality televsion.

Of course, you should talk about it as pleasantly as you talk about your favorite football team or whomever you'd vote off the island. That's the trick -- talk about issues, yes. Don't turn it into an opportunity to belittle people and shout and express your anger.

[jiacinto]

17. It depends on the workplace

I wouldn't bring it as it often can create interpersonal problems. But that's just me.

[The White Rose]

28. Agree about the work thing, but

How can Bush be classed as anything else BUT a war crimminal? Read the posts above again and think about it for a bit. As "AWD" and "protect freedom" have pointed out, Bush's pre-emptive policy, lacking an imminent threat and/or UN support was, and is, a flagrant breach of the principals of international law and a complete reversal of the position taken by the Nuremburg prosecutors. Imagine the exact same policies being undertaken by Putin, or, say, Robert Mugabe or Muamar Gadhafi. Can an American president never be a war crimminal simply because they are American? It may not be palatable but we should judge our leaders by their actions rather than by preconceived notions of what it is to be "American". Unfortunately, a great deal of Americans wouldn't agree...

[BeHereNow]

15. The opposite of the Rule of Law

is the Rule of Lawlessness.
Gently explain to your uneducated colleagues that:

a. It is not their fault that they were un-educated in our
public school system, never taught about International law etc...
and that it's never too late to learn new things.
b. That if one were to extend their logic as they apply it to the M.E.
situation, then all violent offenders currently imprisoned should
be set free, today!

Smile broadly, turn and walk away as you leave them to
drool in confusion from their slack-jawed mouths...

[Cappurr]

18. Romantico.....you're a dear

But just a little too enthusiastic. If you are trying to convince people don't use words that will incite. Talk about the "misleading" representations of WMD. The "poor planning" for after the war. Our boys who are being killed because of that "poor planning". Talk about Halliburton and all the sweetheart contracts going to Bush's friends and how we, the taxpayers, have to pay for the infastructure necessary and the security necessary to let those "golden ones" make billions of dollars while they pay the Iraqis 100 a month. (And that is true). Talk about that. War Criminal......well that is a much overused term. Corporate whore I like better. :hi:

[romantico]

21. Thank you Cappurr

I admit, I got caught up in the momment.I said it because I saw it going into the "Blame Clinton"direction.They began claiming wrote 90% of the patriot act & he was mostly responsible for 9/11.I lost it(I hadn't had my coffee yet)I should have conserved my words.But hey, they now know how I feel.I don't mince words to often!

[cherryperry]

23. I know exactly how you feel, romantico!

However, the majority of the staff at a law office I USED to work in turned out to be major fundies and rather than stay and choose between abuse or silence, I chose to cut my losses and check out other jobs. It was iffy for a while, but I am SO glad I made my choice. Now, you must make your own. Good luck!

:pals:

[Cappurr]

I don't blame you....

Years of practicing in front of grumpy judges taught me some restrait. But I can still loose it pretty easily at times. I once told an advesary to "pound sand" on the record. I thought the judge (one of those innocent little boy types) was gonna have a hear attack.

And there is another jugde A-type personality, former Marine that I just end up screaming at. He screams at me too. But actually we like each other. I think so many lawyers are afraid of him and I never have been and he finds that amusing. :shrug:

[cherryperry]

31. I know of one "un-named associate" who

put "fuck off" on the record. The judge actually asked if he was sure he wanted to leave that on the record and the hothead actually said, "Why, yes, yes, I would!" LOL

:shrug:


:hi:

[dbt]

19. There's NO way too be too harsh on The Monkey

He sent American military personnel into a "war" that was begun under the most transparently false of premises. That makes him a war criminal, right enough.

Personally, I never discuss politics, religion or sports at work because I suspect they are all three the same thing.

:evilgrin:
dbt

BTW, what did your co-workers have to say about that Clinton fellow? You know, the President who was actually elected?

[GainesT1958]

22. In the summer of 1987, I got in a similar argument...

When a co-worker exclaimed "Ollie (North) for president!" And in response, I said, "Ollie North for convicted war criminal!" I don't know if that got me in trouble at work, but it DID create quite a row from his fellow gullibles who thought Ollie was "some kind of hero". I just hope in hindsight at least SOME of them came to know better; the instigator left shortly thereafter for another job, and I doubt he ever though differently.

Just judge the kind of environment you have in your particular office or workplace, and go from there. Some places may be quite risky for you to say that; in others, you may well receive some, or several, pats on the back for it. I hope you don't get in trouble for that one. May be better to settle for calling Dub a "Moron" from now on!:eyes:

B-)

[TreasonousBastard]

24. Dunno the situation, but...

never, ever start a fight you're not absolutely sure you're going to win.

Worst case scenario is you piss everyone off so much you end up out on your ass with no money, no job, and not even the satisfaction of changing one asshole's mind.

Really, how would you like it if some Limbaughcile came into work every day quoting the Great Truth of Pigboy? You'd be pissed, right?

People handing Coulter's book around, holding Shrub songfests, wearing "Die Raghead Die" buttons...

Someone using the lunch hour to preach Jehovah's Witnesses.

Nope, you've got to keep your priorities straight and sell out. Harmony in the workplace is tough enough with all the nutjobs out there.

Now, this is not to mean you have to stay in a closet. Just know the difference between making your point with grace and humor and irritating the crap out of people for no reason. If you play it right, you'll be affectionately known as the house Commie, and might even bring a few over to your side.

Just don't lose your cool. You have to work with those people, and some day you might be working for them, or they for you.

[CurtRCounts]

29. Exactly...

You've more than likeley already dug yourself a hole,so lay low. Everyone's got causes.It's just not everyone wants to hear them. Of course you have a right to share them,but your coworkers also have the right to bash you for sharing them when they dont want to hear them,or if they disagree.Do you like when the office preacher catches you in the break room to spread the gospel?Or when the racist republican whines aloud about social services and affirmative action?Of course not.Win them over with accurate information,timely responses and some MILD humor.I emphasize mild because most people cant pick up sarcasm or complicated comedic schemes.Good luck to you...

[DuctapeFatwa]

25. You are correct, but watch what you say and watch what you do

The war criminal has decreed that anyone may be disappeared at any time.

[NNN0LHI]

26. It all depends on how well you like your job

Don't kill the messenger either. Thats just the way it is. When you collect a paycheck they pretty much own you while your on the clock. Even off the clock to a certain extent. Any type of dissent in the work place is frowned upon. Don't know what else to tell you?

Don

[Terwilliger]

27. he's a war criminal

he initiated an illegal action in violation of several established treaties and international laws. The Constitution says that treaties that the government enters into are considered inviolable. He is a criminal...a traitor.

[arcane1]

30. he "thumbed his nose at the UN"

defied the security council, and invaded a country that had not attacked us. It was ILLEGAL under international law.


what do we call people who do illegal things? "criminals"


what do we call people who start illegal wars? "war criminals"


you'd think even the most brain-dead repube could figure it out

[Stuckinthebush]

32. Tell 'em to "Bring it on"!

Stand up to that ignorance and tell the truth!

Good for you romantico!

[LunaC]

33. Play the WMD angle

We dropped a shitload of depleted uranium in Iraq. The UN considers DU to be a WMD. While Smirk was quick to villify and condemn Iraq for WMD's it didn't have, apparently the level of censure associated with WMD's is directly contingent upon who is using them. If using WMD's is considered a crime against humanity, then Smirk is guilty as hell!