Big Brother in Britain, 4.2 million cameras!

[uncle ray]

i caught BBC's The World yesterday, they were of course covering the bombing and the investigation. in their story about the investigation, it was mentioned that Great Britain has 4.2 MILLION CCTV cameras across the country, they say, one for every 14 people, and that the average person walking through London gets caught on camera at least 300 times a day!

I had no idea. but then i quickly reminded myself where Orwell was from.

the audio is at theworld.org, under friday's show, about 1:35 into the coverage of the investigation.

[Zuni]

1. That is really creepy

I have heard that before too.

[bullimiami]

2. 4 million cameras and for what?

big fucking waste of time and money because big brother doesnt trust the people.

didnt stop the bombing. so what if they can find a pile of video after the fact.

[Deja Q]

17. Especially when they didn't stop the attackers from attacking!!!!!!!!!!!!!

UK's equivalent to homerland security sucks too. Nice.

Those who did the deed may have been seen (or may not have been, lovely thing those face masks) so we'll never know if it's Al Quaeda or the IRA or some fringe lunatic (or corrupt official) pinning some blame...

[KittyWampus]

22. 4 mil. cameras watching womens' tits and black/brown people. Proven fact

[havocmom]

3. Cameras, ID cards and still explosions happen.

That should tell Americans something, but I doubt the message will get through.

Security is an illusion but political snake oil salesmen all want us to buy.

[Wapsie B]

6. Fear sells a lot of things.

That's what the security industry thrives on. Good lord look at Y2k. Fortunes were made with the predictions of the end of civilization at the stroke of midnight.

[FreedomAngel82]

32. I remember that

I remember that year. My parents, brother and I went to a church New Year's eve party and I remember when the count down began everybody around me was holding their breaths. I remember thinking how nuts they all were. I dunno why but I just never bought into any of that nonsense.

[muriel_volestrangler]

8. We don't actually have the ID cards yet

and the Home Secretary actually admitted yesterday there is no reason to think that ID cards would have prevented these bombs at all. They may still help catch the bombers. But they're not there to prevent major incidents like this - no-one ever pretended that someone who would willingly kill random civilians would be deterred at the thought of being caught at spending the rest of his life in jail. The cameras may help deter petty criminals, and catch the major ones, that's all.

[havocmom]

18. Thank you for the correction. I thought the papers thing was done already

Paper only makes it easier to keep taps of law abiding citizens.
Major criminals and cameras... hmmmm. They put cameras in board rooms? That's were the most damaging crimes happen these days ;)

Hope things stay calm over there now.

[FreedomAngel82]

33. But shh

You can't tell the terrorist's that. You're giving away important homeland security information on the web!! Traitor! :sarcasm: The cards are just a way to spy on us and just to have fear and continue this nonsense "war on terror".

[Swede]

4. It was in response to the IRA terror bombings.

I can't think of a better response. I also can't think of a better response that can be so easily abused.

[muriel_volestrangler]

7. Not just the IRA

The big increase in the number of cameras came after they had stopped their bombing. It's mainly justified in public areas as a way to stop petty theft - shoplifting, bag-snatching, that sort of thing. Private companies (stores etc.) do it as a way of doing security without lots of guards.

[1932]

10. They also caught a serial prostitute murderer somewhere in Scotland.

I remeber reading a story about that. The prostitutes said that they preferred to go places where they knew they were on camera because they thought they were safer (even though, in theory, they and their customers were risking arrest and a relatively easy prosecution).

[Corey_Baker08]

5. The US Dont Need Cameras....

They have satelites watching all of us.

[mr blur]

9. And we don't have the FBI,

demanding to know what books we check out of libraries.

[jmatthan]

12. Remember the very accuracy of Colin Powell's

testimony in the UN where they played a recoding of two Iraqi soldiers in the field discussing WMDs!

And they could not locate 20 or more people making and planting bombs all over London.

Or was Powell's testimony a big LIE?

Jacob Matthan
http://jmpolitics.blogspot.com
Oulu, Finland

[FormerOstrich]

26. Yep, and Powell said that

the Iraqi soldiers said they were playing cat and mouse with the inspectors. Interesting saying for Iraqi soldiers. Any semblance of credibility was blown out of the water with that statement.

[FreedomAngel82]

34. I also remember

watching CNN or something like that and the host was talking to a General of the military and this General said they keep an eye on the terrorist's groups by their website's. Do they honestly think they're going to get the truth on the web from a terrorist group? I mean, duh! C'mon now.

[manic expression]

11. Just more proof...

that Big Brother can NEVER win. ORWELL WAS WRONG!

[omega minimo]

13. Does surveillance contribute to the "calm" of Londoners?

[sybylla]

14. I caught a story on the CBC where they were using the bombings to justify

even more cameras. By "they" I mean they had video of someone in the government saying that.

[formernaderite]

15. I think alot of Americans forget how closed

of a society europe is. They forget that in many european countries you have to register with the local police when you move etc, that many states have state religions that take the tithing automatically from your paycheck unless you officially step out of the religion. Yes...I'm still very thankful to live in the US.

[BooScout]

16. What states have state religions ...

...in Europe that make you tith autmatically? I have never heard that.

[sybylla]

20. My Belgian friends tell me

that clergy from all state "approved" religions are on the government dole in Belgium. They've essentially socialized religion as their answer to freedom of religion - neutrality is sought through supporting them all rather than none as we prefer here. Though they admit that only those religions viewed as mainstream or described as major religions receive government support. They are quite surprised when we get in to discussions of freedom of religion and separation of church and state here, that we are so adamant that government money not be used for religious purposes.

[formernaderite]

21. Germany....

Belgium...Switzerland...I seem to remember years ago, most countries in Europe did...they may have changed since then. Religions have to meet certain requirements to be accepted as an official state religion...where as here in the US it's much more loosely defined, and for tax purposes only. You must either officially step out of the religion, or the government takes a portion of your paycheck for the church, mosque or whatever. In larger cities people have begun to officially leave their religion, but in smaller towns where everyone in town would essentially know, it's much harder to do. Why do you think their religious structures are so well maintained? It has had the opposite effect on attendance however...that by coercing a payment, no one feels the need to actually go to services.

[Vladimir]

27. Well, seeing as in Germany

several different religions are allowed to collect money in this way, I doubt that this is an opt-out based system. Switzerland has, however, never had a state religion since its independance.

[jmatthan]

30. I don't see these as Big Brother activities

The population register system is not to record your movements but only to ensure that all your records, health, etc. are sent to the right place when required. Further, we are sure of the statistics put out by the Government in Finland annually cannot be manipulated, as is possible in the US system.

Although Finland does have a state religion, it is easy enough to opt out of it or into it. There is no compulsion to be in the state religion and pay the extra taxes. Neither my wife (a Finn) nor me (a foreigner in Finland) are in the State Religion register!!

We all have health insurance cards and that itself far outweighs any inconveniences as we have a free health care system. Also, even a driving license serves as an identity card. And all residents of Europe can move freely in all Schengen countries without any visa - even though these are different countries. England is not and that is why there are so much illegal residents in the UK.

In addition, we have the absolute right to view the data being kept on your files and can have any confidential or wrong information removed. Direct mailers are not allowed to infringe your privacy and can be prosecuted if they do, and this means even our home address!

It is not a Big Brother society as you think - as we, the people, are in control of what happens with information about us - unlike in the US!!

What we fear is that the US is pushing that these countries fall in line with their Big Brother attitude as set out in your Patriot Act.

Jacob Matthan
http://jmpolitics.blogspot.com
Oulu, Finland

[FreedomAngel82]

35. Seriously?

You have to do that and the religious groups are allowed to do that??? Thank goodness that doesn't happen here.

[question everything]

19. Was wondering the same thing when our own networks (CBS)

reported about how the authorities were going to view surveillance cameras

[amazona]

23. well, you're on camera 734 times a day in Vegas

At least that's what the sign at Kenneth Cole's said the other day. They advised you to Dress Well! :-)

[melv]

24. The Prometheaus Deception by Robert Ludlum

check it out.

[amazona]

28. Ok I will NT

.

[SmokingJacket]

25. With that many cameras, NO ONE is watching.

I'd guess that they're only useful to intimidate criminals and to investigate afterwards.

So... the bombers MUST be caught on tape... right? Does anyone know?

[amazona]

29. who knows, in Vegas they're watching but...

...they do not always know what they're seeing. That's why people can make money playing cards. :-)

[FreedomAngel82]

31. Everyday

it seems as if George Orwell's story is becoming more and more true. Now I'll have to read that book.