I LOVE DU but...

[Mythsaje]

it seems to me that we're a lot more reactive than proactive.

We know the media's full of whores. A thousand examples of this fact does nothing but preach to the choir.

We know the RW talk hosts are a bunch of assholes. Again, a thousand examples of this fact tells us nothing we didn't already know.

We know Bush is an self-absorbed idiot, that Rove is a monomaniacal spinmeister, that Cheney is so corrupt that if his corruption were visible it would take the form of a 2 lb boil on the side of his face. We know these folks are dirtier than a herd of pigs in a swamp.

But what are we going to DO about it? Are we going to continue to be reactive...telling one another over and over again what we already know? Or are we going to start coming up with constructive ways to change the dialog--to reach new people who either aren't paying attention or consider a positive message full of bullshit better than a negative message, or one that isn't at all cohesive?

WE know that the progressive agenda is better than the conservative one. We know that they're playing the average American citizen for a fool--using his/her prejudices to convince him/her to vote against his/her interests. How do we counter this tactic?

We can send LTTEs from now until doomsday, but it's not enough to criticize those in power. It's not enough to react to what's out there without offering a viable alternate message. We will never gain ground, or gain so little ground as to make it pointless, until we disable their control of the language and give the people something to think about BESIDES how bad the Neo-Cons are.

Color me frustrated, but I can't help but wonder why so many people are willing to join in raging against the machine, but so unwilling to consider ways to repair it...

We need new tactics...the ones the left have been using for so long haven't been working. It's not enough to hope people will vote Democratic in disgust with the Bush Regime and its policies. We need EFFECTIVE ways to point out "yeah, their policies are fucked up, here's why, and this is what we plan to do differently."

I'm not suggesting we adopt their tactics, or sink to their level, I'm suggesting we seek out ways to rise to a whole new level. We need to change the dialog.

NOW.

[Lex]

1. It's a MESSAGE BOARD and that's why we talk a lot here.

It does NOT follow that we don't also ACT.

I certainly do.

[Mythsaje]

5. I'm a member of the Activist Corps

and I send LTTEs and sign petitions and all that stuff too.

I guess I'm reacting to the fact that a lot of people really jump on board the "bash the rightie" threads yet rarely respond to the those threads that suggest ways to change the dialog.

I don't post articles, news, or other people's thoughts, myself. There are plenty of people already doing that. I don't have a problem with it, but I wonder why people seem more intrigued by this strategy than new approaches to things.

Though my contributions have always been greeted with good responses, it seems as though most people pass them by without even bothering to read them, or responding even if they do.

I'm just wondering why.

[havocmom]

8. Much of what some of us post here is to give ideas to the millions who

are concerned with the course this country is on under the neocons. Much of what is said here is to inspire others to share information with their circles of friends and neighbors.

Sometimes there is a need to blow off steam and that's OK. Sometimes there are freeps who like to think they are agents provocateur and stir up a pot of piss then point at DU from afar and try to discredit.

Most here do other things to help the cause out there beyond cyber-space. This is our think tank, classroom, play room.

You may not get a lot of responses to your ideas and suggestions, but you probably get more reading and consideration of them than you think.
You can keep on trying, shrug off what you perceive as lack of response, and hope many are learning from your posts or that you are giving many food for thought they will chew on and use. Or you can let a lack of responses bruise your ego, get dejected and give up.

You might wanna remember there are lots of people reading beyond those who post regularly. Once in a great while, you might get a thank you from out of the blue from a complete stranger. It happens. Most just don't respond.

[Mythsaje]

10. I get you...

I'm not dejected as much as occasionally frustrated.

I appreciate the commentary quite a bit, however. I work hard at putting together my posts the way I do... Sometimes I spend a couple of days on them, while others come completely off the cuff in response to something I see here.

I have a bumper sticker that says

"Comfort the Disturbed
Disturb the Comfortable."

My wife suggested I buy it because I like to make people think of things in ways they've never considered before. One of the reasons my novels are pretty damn unique as well.

One of the reasons I appreciated responses so much is because I like to know if I've touched a chord in the reader.

[havocmom]

13. Love your bumper sticker.

If I had a bumper, I would send you a check to buy me one.
It describes the essence of havocmom's role in life!

[Booster]

17. I always read your posts with great interest and almost always

agree with what you have to say, but you have to remember, you are only one poster and there are thousands posting things to read. I think most of us are overwhelmed and spend a lot of time just reading; more than we should really. We are outraged, we are sad at losing some very good people on DU, but mostly we are just overwhelmed with all that is happening in the world. With all the bad things that are happening, you would think that true believers would connect the dots and think to themselves that God must really be pissed and he is pissed at all of us. I really expect a bolt of lightening to hit Bush smack dab on the top of his head; if that did happen, I'm sure the right would think that God chose Bush because he is such a good Christian - seems it takes a while to wake people up; one at a time really. We're all doing our best, but remember you're not the only one with suggestions.

[Mythsaje]

25. Oh, I'm not so arrogant

that I think I'm the only one with suggestions...I'd actually like to bring us together as a sort of progressive think tank where we can be more proactive than reactive.

And believe me, I know how fast things fly around here...I am as guilty as everyone else of picking and choosing the threads I read. But those I do I usually respond to. Of course, it helps to be a speed-reader AND a 70 wpm+ keyboarder.

[havocmom]

24. Mythsaje, here is an example of the ripple effect we often have

from a post just now

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4058065&mesg_id=4058065

Often our words and efforts are utilized in ways we could never imagine and can never fully measure. All is connected, whether we see the pathways or not.

[omega minimo]

20. Thank you for asking

and pointing out why language matters.

"Though my contributions have always been greeted with good responses, it seems as though most people pass them by without even bothering to read them, or responding even if they do."

This is why we say that disrespectful language self-selects the audience and limits the dialogue. If you choose to start your post with "...full of whores....a bunch of assholes..." that seems "reactive"! and you may end up "...telling one another over and over again what (you and your self-selected audience) already know?"

You write novels, yet depend on crudities? How will you "disable their control of the language" without crafting new or improved language?

And unless you do that, how will you be effective?

"We need EFFECTIVE ways to point out "yeah, their policies are fucked up, here's why, and this is what we plan to do differently."" "I'm suggesting we seek out ways to rise to a whole new level. We need to change the dialog. NOW."

I am not here to scold you or judge how you want to present yourself. I am answering your question about the level of responses you receive. And pointing out that you are making OUR points about how language impacts the discussion and the potential solution building.

THANK YOU.
:hug:

[Mythsaje]

26. Whoa

I don't usually resort to "crudities..." I'm hardly the Rude Pundit here. If you've read any of my posts--and your reply makes it fairly apparent you haven't--you'd know that I AVOID that sort of stuff because I'm trying to put together stuff that reaches a larger audience than the choir.

This post was speaking SPECIFICALLY to the choir.

;)

If you want a sense of the sort of stuff I write, visit my blog @ http://sajewilliams.blogspot.com

[Deja Q]

12. BINGO.

[Proud_Lefty]

2. Join the Activist Section

:shrug:

[napi21]

3. I agree, sort of.

I agree we should come up with some good ideas to get the idiots out of office, but I'm not so sure I totally agree we should not stoop to their low level.

Maybe not all the time, and in every situation, but I wouldn't mind some strategically placed phone calls suggesting some dirt on the opposition that is only part true! Maybe an accuasatory ad now and then stating something that just can't be disproven!

I think we've been fighting neuclear bombs with water guns the last 5 or 6 years, and we need to upgrand our ammo!!!!

[Mythsaje]

28. Check out my blog

to see some of the ideas I've been having about all this.

http://sajewilliams.blogspot.com

[ConfuZed]

4. ...Why the hell havent we started our own internet radio station?

[Mythsaje]

6. That's not a bad idea at all... n/t

[IChing]

19. I suggested at least a podcast in the activism area

That does not require a internet radio station, you just need an iPod, a microphone and a URL to broadcast. No money to speak of. I had a tread going in activism .....


But I have not heard a word back from any moderators or administrators.

Podcasting is growing at an amazing rate and apple will allow submitting on their site
Huffington does it, Air America does it, Ipod lounge does it and many other internet sites.

Even if you do not have an iPod you can still download the broadcast from the apple site
and it is free.

for example from our greatest posts,
I love the rant on, I want to marry this guy... post from today.

[MuseRider]

7. I react here

but I take it out and act with what I have learned. I think most of us here to that. I doubt there are all that many here who only read and react on DU.

For me in a red state this is often the ONLY place I can react the way I want to. I react here then temper it with something that will work in my community.

[formernaderite]

9. I continually write the media and complain...

do you?

[Mythsaje]

11. I've done so, yes...

Not constantly, but I write other things as well... I refuse to be just another squeaky wheel.

http://sajewilliams.blogspot.com

[liberalismresurgent]

14. There's nothing we can do

In an ideal world, this board would serve to convince people not to vote Republican. But the bad news is...people don't vote Republican. They stole the past 2 elections and they will continue to steal it. Blacvoteboxing.org for example, is doing as much as they can to fight eleciton fraud, which is the root of all evil: If they (the republicans) are not voted out they won't stop invading innocent countries and stomping on our civil rights. Many of us have contributed money to that blackboxvoting website. That's a great example of being pro-active. but that's all we can do. If we rise up we get shot at and die by the intelligence services.
Let's keep on denouncing the fraudulent electoral machines and asking democratic polititians to not just bend over and taking it in the you-know-what. It's our only hope.
Election fraud should be top priority. War in Iraq, Media whores and the rest should be secondary. Yes, you heard it: Secondary. If our voutes are counted legislation can be passed to fix the media, pull our troops out, respecting other countries' sovereignty, not sending wackos such as Bolton to the UN, etc.
Voting Fraud: #1 issue.

[newyawker99]

29. Hi liberalismresurgent!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[tiptoe]

30. We should minimally keep Election Fraud at the forefront of DU visitors...

Should the 2004 Election Forum be placed back on the main forum page? (Poll)

[Green Mountain Dem]

15. I agree wholeheartedly......

BUT how will the message ever get out?? When you own the media, and the voting machines...YOU OWN THE MESSAGE!

I am going to order a 1000 stickers to place under all those yellow Support Our Troops ribbons ...It will say If YOU Didn't Sign Up, Then Just SHUT UP!

It's not much..but it's a message.

[Mythsaje]

31. And worthwhile

for what it is.

Keep on keeping on. That's all we can really do right now.

[havocmom]

16. hey Mythsaje, YOU have mail!

:hi:

[Cleita]

18. No offense but you are painting with a rather broad brush.

Just because the form of the political message board makes people seem to be reactive doesn't make it true. Many, many DUers are very active politically in their own communities going out into the real world to do what they can sometimes under very unfriendly circumstances.

[yurbud]

21. take lessons from the right (without violating morals)

The right got as far as they did by hammering Dems day in and day out as well as repeating ad nauseum their handful of talking points:

cut taxes
privatize
deregulate (except schools--regulate them out the ass)
blame poor & non-white


You said it exactly right here:

We need EFFECTIVE ways to point out "yeah, their policies are fucked up, here's why, and this is what we plan to do differently."

If we don't say the second, you're right, we'll never get anything done. But if we don't do the first, no one will listen.

People like to hear stories, and stories involve conflict.

Being polite has been the primary mode for the democrats and it has gotten them ground into the dirt. Frankly, I think some were paid to be polite, but others probably bought this bad advice--that is often freely given by the far right (note their apoplexy whenever Howard Dean says anything or some other democrat temporarily sprouts some cajones).


The recent London bombings were a case in point. As soon as the story broke, people were posting here not to "politicize" the event. Just as quickly though, the far right did just that, some going as far as saying this would be a good time to round up liberals.

You are not giving people an accurate picture of what's going on if you don't provide the context of the assault on our civil rights, middle class, and reputation in the world.




Hillbilly Hitler art:



Blog:

[Ready2Snap]

22. One reason and one reason only

we seem to be reactive - - we aren't in power!!!

If you want to see people be proactive, wait til the Dems retake the Congress. The proactives will come out of the woodwork.
Seriously, if you don't help liberal or progressive candidates get elected, there is nothing else but reactive.

The reason we seem so helpless is that Bushco isn't interested in anything we(Dem Reps & Sens)have to say.
They don't seek our(Dem Reps & Sens) advise. They don't compromise. They don't have to.
The way the Repugnacans see it, they have the power - they can do whatever they want.
They make the laws. They appoint the judges. And how dare you interfere with their governance!

Why do you think the threat of a filibuster irks them so? Because they can't have their way.
So they rant and rave and get their propaganda machine to obfuscate the issue until it seems that
to oppose their will is wrong/evil/UnAmerican/obstructionist/communistic/anti-free market/pro-big government,
or any one of a thousand other contrived disparagements.

So - what do we do?

If you live in a Cong. district and state that already has Dems. in the House and Senate,
find out where we need help. Move-On.org comes to mind. There are tons more,
so stop whining that we're so reactive -- Change the existing paradigm.

[Mythsaje]

27. Working on it...

That's why I come up with counter talking-points, and specific outreach dialog.

[SoCalDem]

23. The problems we have are HUGE, because the mechanisms

that are used to transmit any message are all owned by republicans (well..almost all of them).. Think about it.. If YOU owned GE, and by default NBC, would YOU be eager to report and investigate stories that threatened your bottom line, or might even result in jail time for you and your immediate pals? or..would you cozy up to whatever administration that was in power, so that regulations that favored your company were instituted....in exchange for "favorable coverage" at best, and a gentle "looking away" at worst?

Would you be willing to "play fair", if it meant that your stock would drop in value, and you might lose your cushy position?

MOST media venues are consolidated these days, and in the hands of moguls who have no intention of letting go. It takes ENORMOUS amounts of money to start up, and even if they did start one up, would the owners of the ever-dwindling cable companies even carry it?

Republicans were ahead of the curve, and started their "media empire" years ago (when it was cheap and easy to start buying up newspapers, radio stations, billboard companies, magazines, and local tv outlets)..The people in our party who have money, have not been all that interested in trying to compete..That's it in a nutshell..