Do you think ours is a doomed society?

[Deja Q]

Well?

[SmokingJacket]

1. Eh, they're all doomed.

It's just a matter of how quickly the end will come about. I think, if I live out my expected life span, I'll see a time when the US is NOT a superpower, or even a power. I suspect we'll still be around, though.

[sendero]

2. Oil is a problem..

.. but the real problem is that America as a country and Americans as individuals live beyond their means and we are about to drown in an economy shattered by debt.

[chalky]

13. I vote THIS option. Can we have this option?

This was brought home to me this afternoon as I drove back from San Antonio to Austin and passed outlet malls and shopping centers absolutely clogged with consumers in their gas guzzling SUVs. The largest of the outlet malls, one that once took up four acres of land, looks to be expanding to around seven acres of stores. It's turning into a Disney World for consumption!

[mom cat]

3. You need more options.

Yes we are doomed, both because of the pigs and because we haven't mare responsible decisions ourselves as citisens of this planet.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

4. If we learn how to either crack water effeciently or produce cheap

hydrogen in some other way things won't be as bad as if we don't learn how to.

[BeHereNow]

5. The option you did not provide-

Yes. Not as simple as the choices given.
Our society is doomed because Americans, in general,
do not possess the intellect to comprehend what the
problem is.
In my opinion, at this point in time,
the American people are going to get the
government they deserve.
I confess a twisted satisfaction about this fact...
BHN

[Terran]

10. Thank you. It's not just the wealthy who are pigs,

It's almost all of America. "The wealthy" aren't the ones consuming far more than their per capita share of the world's energy. Nearly everyone here at at DU enjoys a lifestyle that is far far more affulent than the average human being.

[BeHereNow]

17. I don't know if I would use the word "enjoys"

In regards to the average American lifestyle.
I would call it delusional lifestyle, perpetuated by
willful denial and hedonistic avoidance of facing reality.

The reality is, most Americans are one paycheck from
financial ruin.
Most Americans live in houses that they will lose if one or
both spouses lose a job or face medical crisis.

They insist on driving new cars that are one paycheck from
being repossessed and they increasingly will be unable
to fuel.

They insist on having the latest doo-dad or gizmo foisted
on them by corporate marketing campaigns.

They live in a hypnotic state pursuing a lifestyle that is
based on debt and pop-culture prestige while avoiding all
reality and responsibility for what their govenrment has
done in their names to other peoples of the world for
decades. They do not vote, they do not read anything close
to serious litature and they have abandoned the raising of
their children to television, corporate marketing and religious right wing Christians who now occupy school boards and government offices
and decide curriculum.

They have gorged themselves without a thought to the fact that
the bill for their frivolous and ignorant pursuits would one day come due.

That day is upon us.

BHN

[Zorbuddha]

18. You are so astute. Very well put.

Empires in decline never realize it as it happens.

We were thrown a lifeline in the 60s, when conciousness-raising was put on the table. We chose war and pettiness. Now we pay.

[BeHereNow]

23. I don't know about astute-

Just realistic.
The writing is on the wall.
Problem is, most Americans can't read and really don't want to be
bothered with learning how to.
Now, let's all go watch "Fear Factor."
How ironic a name is that for the opiate choice of the masses, eh?
BHN

[Zorbuddha]

24. Well, you condensed an extraordinary complex of thought

into a clear, concise, insightful summation.

I'd call that astute. And wise.

Irony abounds...I'm astonished by the sheer weight of it.

I'm always grateful for your contributions here, however they are best characterized.

Cheers!

[BeHereNow]

25. Well thanks-

I look forward to getting to know you better through
your posts too.
I like your user name for sure.
BHN

[Terran]

21. That was kind of my point...

When I say "enjoy" I refer to the fact of material comfort far in excess of most of the world; comfort that is achieved only by an insane amount of consumption of goods and resources. It can't go on forever, unfortunately.

[Selatius]

6. All things come to an end sooner or later, that's the nature of change

Not even the greatest powers of earth could prevent change. Did anyone honestly think after serious thought and contemplation the US was any different? Did the Romans think so as well? The British? The Spanish?

[punpirate]

8. Throw in the Dutch...

... who had ambitions to control world trade, too. They didn't last long at all at it, either.

It's a large combination of forces that aren't represented in the poll, and the interplay between them is complicated. The rich are a force, and their determination to get more for themselves leaves much less for a host of other interests--government services, ordinary workers, the rest of the developing world. Then there's a government that believes that an unchecked, rampant capitalism is the best of all possible worlds. Then, there's oil--which is conveniently providing much of the wealth to the very rich of the society, in one way or another. Then there's the completely aberrant notion of spending a majority of the government's resources on armies to fight foreign wars to defend the interests of US multinational corporations, which because of the tax cuts demanded by the rich and powerful in society, are being fought with other countries' money.

They're intertwining interests which will ultimately spell, if not disaster, then the reduction of the US to second-world status. My own one-liner is that the US will, if kept on its current course, become the world's largest banana republic, over-armed, completely paranoid about internal security and overwhelmed by debt. With banana republics come dictators, and that's the worst scenario I can imagine--constitutional rule of law submerged by fear and paranoia.

[amazona]

27. I notice the Dutch and British continue to live well

Indeed some may say their standard of living is higher than ours -- universal health care and a longer lifespan would be suggestive.

Haven't been to Rome but I suspect if I did I would find those people doing just fine as well.

No reason the U.S. would crawl into a cave and die just because it wasn't the Biggest Empire on the Block at some future time.

[punpirate]

32. No, maybe not...

... but try to tell that to the people who are pushing for a bigger and bigger empire. :wow:

The problem is the direction the country is going--that's going to determine its fate. In the post-WWII era, the British and the Dutch, largely due to prior experience, embraced unionism and a taxation system which prevented the sort of maldistribution of national wealth which is damaging our country right now. They didn't continue to pursue massive defense spending which would have bankrupted them had they done so. They didn't seek to control the world economy for the benefit of a clutch of huge multinationals--they've simply tried to find their part in that economy.

They didn't seek out wars for political purposes and then borrow the money to wage those wars from other nations.

They didn't embrace the far right, politically (when they dallied with arch-conservatism, it usually came back to bite them).

All those things they did not do are things in full swing now in this country, and which have been building for twenty-five or thirty years, and there's no strong indication that those trends will be changing direction any time soon. That means when the crash comes in this country, it's going to be a doozy. And when people are angry and with no place to focus their anger, there's always the possibility for someone to step in and give them that focus. For a contemporary example, just look at what Bush did after 9/11. Bush and his handlers took that anger and blind frustration and gave it focus--and used it to their own political advantage.

With a graver situation in the future, as is certain to occur as more and more of the developing world begins competing for scarce resources--not just oil, but fresh water, too--we could find ourselves led by someone intending to take us down a path that we can't yet see.

Cheers.

[ellenfl]

7. oil is an issue but

the direction our country is heading has more to do with our collective heads in the sand. we are allowing these changes to happen. we can still be a power but we will have to share responsibility.

ellen fl

[Nikia]

9. Things are not set in stone yet

But they became much likely with the continuation of the Bush presidency. Things have to change in the future. We have to wait and see if this means our doom.

[Deja Q]

15. Good viewpoint.

I've been too depressed for my own good.

I wish everyday was Friday... :D W00t!

[Zorbuddha]

20. Our cultural decline is more than Bushco driven.

Sadly, that is only a symptomatic manifestation.

[Swamp Rat]

11. The longer the Busheviks are in power, the sooner the demise of this

empire will come to pass... and the fall will be MUCH harder.

[expatriate]

12. All empires fall.

Things change. Populations, as countries become wealthy, grow soft, grow complacent. People don't strive. Intellectual processes become sluggish. Populations become hooked on entertainment and ignore reality.

It happened to Rome. It will happen with the USA. It will happen again with someone else.

There is always another nation ready to rise and take the place of a fallen empire - and in time, they too will fall.

[donco6]

14. Other: It's inevitable.

As another poster said, All empires fall. Always.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. We are facing a revolution and calling it "terrorism".

We are now living on the backs of the rest of the world. They are inexorably beginning to rebel against our rapaciousness that lays claim to their resources and their labor. We have become parasites. We are feasting while they starve.

They aren't looking for "democracy", or "freedom", or "God", in the sense that we think of them. They are looking for justice. We have become the hated aristocrats very like the ones the poor of France hung from the lamposts or led to the guillotine.

We comfort ourselves with the idea that a few "Islamic Extremists", or "Religious Fanatics" are running amok. But, they are the tip of a very large iceberg made up of the wretched of the earth who don't delve into sophisticated political or religious theories. They, like the starving French of 1789, or the starving Russians of 1917, know only poverty and hunger. And, they're finding out who to blame for it.

The Romans were proud of their "civilization" and spread it around the world they conquered. Until the hungry tribes of that world grew weary of supporting them while they starved.

There is a day of reckoning coming but we cling to the notion that we are the "shining city on the hill" and ignore the the rumblings all around us.

[BeHereNow]

19. Amen.

the majority of Americans do not BEGIN to comprehend the
problem or the fact that it is about to land in their backyards.
they are very near to reaping what they have sown
upon themselves.
BHN

[mikita]

26. ditto to this and your previous posts...

you've said it very well.

[Zorbuddha]

22. Wisdom

lives.

[amazona]

31. oh for cryin' out loud

No poor person is leading a revolution to attack me and mine.

Osama bin Laden has hundreds of milions of dollars. The Saudis who have been funding some of the terrorists in Israel and elsewhere in the world...these people literally are among some of the wealthiest in the entire world.

I tire of being told that we are being attacked, as an act of fair play, by poor people desperate for "justice." The poor people I know are too busy trying to get food and medicine. They don't have time to go blow up themselves and strangers.

Terror and revolution is not created by poor people, and it does not serve the interests of poor people. What helps poor people is food, water, medicine, shelter, and some damn peace and quiet so they can raise their families and get educations and jobs.

If you care about poor people, do something about access to health care or education or safe transportation in this country. Don't do me no favors by advocating or sympathizing with violence. I've been at the very bottom, no home, no place to go. At no time did it occur to me that it would be "justice" to drop a bomb on the people who put me there by discriminatory policies. Hate is an expensive luxury. The middle class dabbler may have time for such nonsense, but I was busy trying to put my life back together.

[BeHereNow]

34. You a re correct- the poor and disenfranchised

have no time to orchestrate attacks.
They are far too busy figuring out how to EAT.
How did that happen anyway?

Our military is now actively enlisting the young people
in those countries with the promise of citizenship, and at a
fraction of the cost they need to pay the poor young
disenfranchised of this country. What does this
tell you about OUR future?
The enlistment target countries are very countries WE destroyed economically How did THAT happen?
Ever occur to your that this is how they will delay a
draft of the blond blue eyed Repulican Evangelicals?

With all due respect, you do not see the big picture.

BHN

[Endangered Specie]

28. Nothing lasts forever.

[cestpaspossible]

29. Couldn't vote because of that bizarre 'If we leave Iraq' thing

you added on to the second choice.

[justinsb]

30. I don't like any of the answers

I think the US is in trouble, and has already deteriorated to the point where her glory days are behind her. But, I don't just blame the rich. I put alot of the blame on ordinary people, on the right, and the left and in between for failing to do enough to prevent it - or in some cases for being too lazy to get off the couch and take an interest. This didn't start on 9/11...it started at the end of WWII and has been a steady process ever since (minus a few positive blips).

[chieftain]

33. I think our days as a Democracy are numbered.

Our citizenry doesn't want to spend the time to understand issues; our journalists have sold their souls in order to be a prattling head on the idiot box; our schools don't teach our history; our religious leaders have made a Faustian bargain to ignore war,deceit and greed;and our economy is dependent on a resource that is controlled by a ruling elite hated by its people and destined to be ousted.

[applegrove]

35. Let us just say this - as long as Americans keep voting for people

who think they are better than everyone else in the world, and smarter (despite the fact the neocon policies of the 1980s just messed up the Middle East), then you are doomed.