NAFTA. How do you feel about it now?

[coloradodem2005]

In the 90's the Democrats and Republicans were generally in favor of this agreement, though some independents, like Ross Perot opposed it. One could blame it for the outsourcing that goes on now. What is your opinion?

[yourout]

1. Worst thing to happen to the middle class........

EVER!!!

[justinsb]

2. Except that NAFTA didn't include China or India which is

where the jobs are being outsourced to - not Canada or Mexico. NAFTA is definitely going to have to be reworked or abandoned soon though - to preserve Canada's resources.

[Selatius]

3. NAFTA is one piece of the "free trade" problem

How could an American worker compete against another worker who can work for less than a dollar an hour? It's not possible.

The American worker will lose out. The poverty-stricken workers may think it is a boon that they have a job that pays at least some amount of money, say, 60 cents in China, and they may think it is good because it is adequate for their local cost of living, but ultimately, they lose as well because they never saw the true value of their labor.

Who wins in all of this? The capitalists at the top, the owners of the resources and the means of production. Ultimately, the biggest slice of the wealth generated from the whole process filters upwards to them. They gain even more control over society than previously through the exercise of that power. Everyone loses out but them. When people compete against each other instead of cooperating with each other, somebody has to lose. There has to be a winner and a loser by the rules of the game.

[sam sarrha]

4. 10.6 MILLION jobs wen to Mexico, minimum wage in Mexico is $4.60 DAY !!!

the money saved does not go back into the community..27,000 people live in the garbage dump in Juarez..drink polluted water have no sewer..eat garbage

a real sweet deal for the Fascist Corporations

[Eric J in MN]

5. Against it before it passed, agaisnt it now. (nt)

nt

[Metatron]

6. Same here. n/t

[Nay]

16. Me, too.

[DefenseLawyer]

7. Free trade is good, but NAFTA was not about free trade

it was about letting international corporations move to Mexico and then ship products back to the US without barriers. It doesn't take Einstein to see that so called free trade, when one side of the "agreement" has no labor laws, is a boondoggle.

[pinto]

9. Good point.

[Lannes]

10. Good point

One of the arguments for NAFTA was an improvement in worker's rights. That never happened because those provisions werent enforced.

Corporations are still taking advantage of workers in all 3 countries and nothing is being done about it.Even if they were enforced I was against it for many of the reasons already given.

[idlisambar]

18. Nafta is bad -- OK, free trade is good?

Let me know what you think about this...

"Kicking Away the Ladder"

Part of the conviction in free trade that the proponents of globalization possess comes from the belief that economic theory has irrefutably established the superiority of free trade, even though there are some formal models which show free trade may not be the best. However, even the builders of those models, such as Paul Krugman, argue that free trade is still the best policy because interventionist trade policies are almost certain to be politically abused. Even more powerful for the proponents of free trade, is their belief that history is on their side. After all, the defenders of free trade ask, isn't free trade how all the world's developed countries have become rich? What are some developing countries thinking, they wonder, when they refuse to adopt such a tried and tested recipe for economic development?

A closer look at the history of capitalism, however, reveals a very different story (Chang, 2002).

http://www.fpif.org/papers/03trade/index.html

[DefenseLawyer]

20. Free trade, as an economic concept is good

If I am a farmer raising wheat efficiently in Kansas and you are a villager in Africa living on rocky soil that happens to be full of gold, it is better for both of us for you to take some of your gold and buy my wheat than to try to grow wheat on your rocky soil. As a concept, this makes the same sense as saying that each of us is better off doing one job with some proficiency and then buying what we need than if each of us tried to grow our own food, make our own clothes and build our own car. However, unless the traders are on an even playing field the concept doesn't work. Free trade shouldn't be promoted until there is equity in the cost of labor. Until that occurs, what passes for free trade is simply the movement of capital to exploit cheap labor.

[idlisambar]

21. you are describing "trade"

Your description of "free trade" is actually describing "trade" without reference to the conditions under which it takes place. "Free trade" is a trading system that is marked by the absence of government barriers or regulations. "Free trade" is only one in a continuum of possible trading systems, with autarky occupying the other extreme.

When you say that "Free trade shouldn't be promoted until there is equity in the cost of labor" it sounds like you are suggesting that some action should be taken to discourage trade when these conditions are not satisfied. A true "free trade" advocate would not make such a suggestion. What you might be suggesting is a trading system in which trade with nations that have comparable labor costs is relatively free, but trade with low-wage nations is managed or restricted in some way. This trading system would fall between the two extremes.

I only emphasize this point to clarify terms. I hear a lot of folks use terms such as "free and fair trade" but such a term is an oxymoron, as the word "fair" implies some sort of government intervention into the marketplace to accomplish some policy objective (i.e. greater equity).

[robcon]

8. I think NAFTA is a triumph.

It was a political triumph for Clinton, who twisted not a few arms to get it passed. It is an economic triumph for Canada, the U.S. and Mexico - helping all 3 countries.

[Elwood P Dowd]

15. Did you just wake up from a 12-year coma

or do you work for James Glassman? IOW, all you know are the same lies that were told about NAFTA in 1993, or all you know is to quote "Free Traitors" like James Glassman.

[Deja Q]

19. Uh, did you know that under NAFTA the US can take Canadian oil? And

Albeit during a time of energy crisis?

Poppy started NAFTA but his lover Clinton had no qualms changing any of it.

And for "free" trade it seems that there are "legal" issues with buying Canadian drugs. How the fuck is THAT free, eh?

You're spouting talking memes fresh FROM 1995. It's helped nobody except the US and if you're Canadian you're going to be in for a shock within the next 2 years... read up on it.

[pscot]

11. We got sold out

NAFTA was a bait and switch. It worked as long as Clinton was running things, but it was a Ponzi scheme. Eventually it turned into a race to the bottom, just like Perot said it would. Would it have continued to work if Al Gore had been elected? With * and the business community in the saddle all the reciprocity has gone out of it. It has become a job sink.

[Double T]

12. I Still Hear That GIANT SUCKING SOUND Ross Always Talked About....

But now it is getting one hell of a lot LOUDER!!!!!!! We all need to hold on tight because everything we have is being SUCKED AWAY!!!!!!

[DireStrike]

13. "Free Trade" is a vehicle for the wealthy to exploit laborers.

Nothing more.

[idlisambar]

14. supported it then, not anymore

I have since concluded that my previous support was naive. Though I wasn't even of voting age, I read a lot of wonky books that tended to argue the free trade line. That and what I learned in economics class about "comparative advantage" led me to support the idea of free trade.

Now, I think NAFTA was a mistake in terms of policy, and an even worse mistake in terms of politics for Democrats. Democrats lost a lot of legitimacy with working class voters because of that vote.

[Deja Q]

17. Ross Perot = Last American Hero in terms of economics...

That or he said all the right things but, if elected, would have crumpled everything.