I think the word Nazi has been used to conservatively on DU lately

[Quixote1818]

Just remember Rush and Hannity monitor DU and when we call Reagan and those on FR Natz's and celebrate Reagan dying of Alzheimer's it gets broadcast to 20 million people on right wing radio. I assure you this does nothing for our cause. It should be used in only the most extreme cases.

Nazi brings up visions of six million jews killed in gas chambers as someone pointed out below.

Certainly I can't make anyone stop saying it but I hope people will use it only as a last resort or when it really applies.

[Pryderi]

1. The word, "Fascism" is more accurate than "Nazi" in describing neo-cons.

That, or "Theofascism". :P

[DBoon]

7. I don't like "Nazi" for a bunch of reasons

The German Fascist movement was so absolutely insane in many ways that it sets too high a standard for lunacy. E.g., if you don't advocate mass execution of ethnic minorities, then you aren't a Nazi, therefore you must be respectable politically. I've read right-wingers argue that since Pinochet "only" murdered 3,000 Chileans, his crimes were clearly not of the same magnitude as Hitler's, and therefore were "acceptable".

Also, we should really study history and familiarize ourselves with the distinctions among various right wing authoritarian movements. Hitler's Nazi party was not the same as Mussolini's Fascists, not the same as Franco's Falangists, not the same as the Pinochet dictatorship in Chile, etc. A right wing authoritarian government in the US would reflect the specific conditions of the US. Knowing how these different movements expressed their politics allows us to make more informed judgments about what's going on in the USA.

Lastly, "Nazi" is just a term of abuse most times. It means "something I really don't like". For these cases, I suggest using more common vocabulary, such as the ever-popular "asshole".

[Sparkman]

104. Please people, Nazi is as Nazi does...call a spade a heart : at our peril.

[Hissyspit]

29. They complain about the 'fascism' label, too.

If the label fits, wear it.

[Rob_G]

74. In fact, they doth protest too much. n/t

[EnfantTerrible]

84. How about

"Neofascism"?

[bklyncowgirl]

94. I agree

Fascist refers more to a general class of authoritarian regimes.

Nazi is much more specific to a particular country and time.

[Vincardog]

106. FASCIST for sure but do not forget that the Shrub's Grand daddy

was Hitler's banker after all. They are still after the same malevolent agenda.:puke:

[bklyncowgirl]

118. And Mussolini was Hitler's ally

But Mussolini was a fascist--not a nazi.

All Nazi's are fascists but not all fascists are Nazis.

Besides, if you use the word Nazi, then you get sidetracked on the whole holocaust issue--better to use fascist which doesn't have those particular connotations.

[Rich Hunt]

121. correct

I think the term "Nazis" better applies to anyone who shares the same nutty, unscientific ethnocentric / racialist beliefs.

There are a lot of people in the U.S. who still have a weird obsession with race and ethnicity and who "belongs" and who doesn't - they just hide better. I feel no shame in calling them "Nazis". It's really sad what a poor job we've done of educating children about history.

I just don't know if I'd call Bush a "Nazi".

[Vincardog]

126. How is aWoL not nutty, unscientific ethnocentric / racialist beliefs.

The refuses scientific evidence and even analytic thought look at his stand on Global Warming.

Is it ethnocentric to want to destroy public education?

Is it racist to destroy the social fabric?

Me thinks so

[Sparkman]

96. CORP. DOMINANCE-300 foreign MILITARY BASSES-HUGE PRISONS

RELIGIOUS DOMINANCE-MILITARY USED AGAINST EMEMIES FROM WITHIN & WITHOUT-TURTURE OF PRISONERS-POLITICAL REPRESSION OF "FELONS"-GOVERNMENT LENIENCY FOR CORPORATIONS DENYING/VIOLATING BEST SCIENCE TO PROTECT CONSUMERS-PRO CORPORATE CENSURESHIP & PROPAGANDA BY MSM-DENIAL OF U.S. HISTORICAL TRUTHS(SLAVERY-INDIGINOUS GENOCIDE-ASSINATIONS AT HOME & ABROAD-MILITARY DOMINANCE IN PUBLIC REVENUES-CORPORATE RACISM & POLITICAL SUPPRESSION IN PROMOTION & HIRING-ARBITRARY COURT & LEGAL PROCESS PRO-WEALTHY(POLITICALLY ADVANTAGED) and on and on and on.
Just exactly, people, is the difference between the 3rd Reich and the U.S. Empire??
Give me a F'g break, no really, I need one!

[TahitiNut]

2. Golly, gee. Somebody else who doesn't like how OTHERS post.

Isn't that just special? :eyes:

[ruggerson]

37. He/she has posted a series of these

The prior one was in defense of the "nice" Freepers

[Generic Other]

45. That's where I used the bad word

that inspired this thread...

[Generic Other]

3. You posted an entire thread to criticize me for using the word NAZI?

Are you serious? You said there were good freepers and I said there were also probably good NAZIs and you have the nerve to post an entire thread to chastise me???

My father fought the Nazis. My cousin was a POW in a Nazi prison camp. No one is going to goddamn tell me when and where I may or may not use the word.

George W. Bush and co. come as close to being Nazis as any Americans in my lifetime. Nazis.

Let me say that a little louder so that 20 million right wing assholes hear it loud and clear. Fucking Nazis have taken over my government.

[AverageJoe]

8. Say it loud, GO!

The nazi bastards gotta go!

[Sparkman]

100. BUSH represent the Nazi ideology in the U.S. Deny it and history repeats

My God, the list of similarities between the 3rd Riech and the ambitions of the neo-cons are an order of magnitude greater than the substantive differences. Prison popultion-nature of crimes-torture use in domestic & foreign U.S. controlled prisions-criminalization of the poor-control of corporate hiring/promotion policy while gov. funding & contracts still encouraged-propaganda/censurship in corp. media (used to be public airwaves)-300 military bases outside U.S.-corporate intrusion into foreign countries then dominate policy-U.S. courts' arbitrary punishment favoring politically connected/wealth-military funding overshadowing domestic benefits-Gov. establishment of corporate business regulations by & for corporate/business that are denying/perverting good science (global warming, abortion, fuel economy-alternative energy programs) - control/suppression of history (indigenous genocide & slavery & radiation experiments & medical experiments on the poor & truths related to wars & 50+ wars of aggressions since ww2 alone & on and on and on)
Wake up America, the Nazis were supported by Prescot Bush, and the Bush aristocracy still fueled by Nazi policy & tactics. Energy dominance & blood for OIL has been a super-nationalst policy before the 3rd Riech, its EMPIRE UBER ALLUS. Neo-cons know where the easy money is, its miltary threat for economic reward.

[AverageJoe]

4. Is it okay if I call Reagan

a sorry, stupid, wicked man? A vile, festering blight on the Presidency? A colossal screw up who did his best to destroy our economy? And a man and President still leagues better than *?

I don't wish a bad death on anyone, Reagan included. But he was a very, very bad man.

[jobycom]

25. I agree--he wasn't just a failed president

He was bad the core of his sorry soul. He kicked off his presidential campaign in Philadelphia, Mississippi-- a town famous for two things. One, Jerry Rice, who may not have even been drafted yet, and two, the rascist murders of three civil rights workers. Anyone who wants to know the essence of Reagan, that's it. The most important symbolic gesture of his life up until that time, a gesture to introduce himself and his vision of America to the world, and he chose to honor not just the murders of those three men, but the entire murderous opposition to civil rights. He was a vile man.

[AndyTiedye]

76. Reagan Deserved to be Helped by Stem Cell Research

as do all other sufferers of Alzheimers and many other ailments.

I can't say anything good about his Presidency though.

[inthebrain]

5. nope

"I thought as Democrats we were supposed to be about tolerance and looking for the POTENTIAL in people?"

As democrats we should be calling a spade a spade. Theres nothing wrong with calling these people Nazis if it fits.

Their treatment of gays put them in that category!!!

Their treatment of Liberals and "tolerance" of Gibbons speach puts them in that category.

Their hatred of muslims puts them in that category!!!!

This slur doesnt just fit the rank in file. It also fits their think tank network, and media barrons as well. Look up Paul Weyrich and his connection with Nazi war criminals when he set up the Heritage Foundation. Look at Rupert Murdochs refusal to hire black in some of his media conglomerates.

These people beave like Nazis and they deserve it. I dont care what people like fucking Oreilly, Limbaugh and the rest of those assholes think.

ANd Reagan was a major fucking psychopath. That idiot and his administration are Responsible for Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein and Nuclear materials on the black market. His disastrous cold war policies are responsible for this mess.

God knows what future disasters await us because of Bush and his brownshirts.

[lvx35]

18. How the nazi's treated gays

And don't forget it.
I'm not placing blame on whoever said Nazi, indeed I remember Rush used to call women feminazis all the time. But serious comparison is not accurate, and we are the party of Truth, we must hold ourselves to high standards to continue to be moral leaders.

[inthebrain]

24. The comparison fit!!!

When they took power they slowly picked and created situations where they could go after these people. The Holocaust is just one story of the rise of the Reich.

How they got their requires undersatnding. People didnt wake up back then and BANG........they shipped people off. It was a progression of many years.

Citing the holocaust is just an end result. Their is a progression to the horro that needs to be understood.

[lvx35]

70. I understand the progression pretty well

I can tell you honestly that what's going on in this country is different. The holocaust was shaped by an ideaology called eugenics, which was presented to the people through propaganda by an idea called "folk spirit". One critical aspect of the eugenics model as related to politics was the idea of "genetic hygiene", or the purging of undesirable genetic structures from the general populus. None of these ideaologies are present currently in the Bush administration, and calling them Nazi's overstates their threat.

Jon Steward said it best:
http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_daily_show/videos/most_recent/index.jhtml
click the clip called "hitler"

[inthebrain]

72. Eugenics!!!

Have you heard of Charles Murray?

How about Steve Sailor?

Many senators, thought leaders, and even Bush has spouted their love for those guys.

[lvx35]

75. Yep.

Ever read their works?

Could be and might be, that's what your assumptions are based on. But the fact is, its not Nazi Germany. No concept of racial hygeine is being advanced in these circles. No ideas that we murder the mentally ill, retarded, gay, or other ethnicities is being talked about. If you have information to this end, please let me know, I'll be the loudest to scream Nazi!

Edit: I don't want to sound like I'm siding with Murray. His work is irresponsible as hell. But still, its also irresponsible to numb people to the use of the word Nazi, it should mean what it means.

[inthebrain]

127. I think the point is lost on you

And yes their is a line of thought amongst right wingers that believe blacks are dirty. Many of their arguments refering to gays also suggest that they are diseased.

Same thing!!!! Just worded differently!!!

George Bush also believs that single mothers should be thrown into group homes and the child put up for adoption.

Charles Murray's research suggest we should just allow minorities to rot because he claims they are "geneticly inferior". Knowing how Nixons southern strategy ties into this is important.

Perhaps you would also be intersted to know that Rev Moon now owns UPI. Steve Sailors articels are now published in that outlet. Rev Moon also owns the Washington times!!!!

Getting back to our friends Sailer and Murray, I dont see how arguing that minorities are genetically inferior is any different than discussing racial hygein.

Fact of the matter is their treatment of these people, gays and blacks, is very simialar to that of the early regime. Their attacks on the press for not printing propaganda that fits into their world view is also simialar.

Who's numbing people?

THe threat is very much there. The "Nazi" charge isnt used enough and using it while having historical references is important. You really need to look at early 1930's Nazi Germany and see how it ties in.

Very simialar indeed.

[ruggerson]

39. Do you think the Holocaust happened overnight?

Or do you think it took fifteen years for the Nazis to come to full power and then to implement their plans.

While I agree "Nazi" is a bit strong when it comes to their treatment of lesbians and gays, they are sure headed in that general direction.

How about we just call them mentally ill fundamentalist nutcases?

[lvx35]

61. Call it what it is.

"How about we just call them mentally ill fundamentalist nutcases?"

Fine. But the fact of the matter is that the word Nazi carries a lot of weight, and that weight comes from the holocaust. Claiming that the conservatives are going to implement a final solution for gays is pure speculation, not rooted in fact...And if you're going to use that term, you need to be willing to show me the gays being carted in trains from san francisco into places like Buchenwald, or a plan to have this happen.

[Hubert Flottz]

82. The US fought the Nazis for four years before Buchenwald and...

those other horrid death camps, even came to be known by the GP! The Nazis were invaders and occupiers of other sovereign nations for the greedy reasons of exploiting natural recourses and to enslave and dominate the populations in those countries they overran, just like Rush's heroes the neocons are doing today.

The neocons have done basically the same things the Nazis did minus the death camps.(so far) The gathering up and the torturing and murdering of the citizens of the countries the Nazis overran, is a fact of life, as is Abu Ghraib.

The same types of spying and the intrusions on privacy and the basic civil rights of citizens, as we see now under the patriot act, took place in Nazi Germany. The same oppression of trade unionists. The Propaganda and suppression of any other point of view, besides the Nazi party line. The suppression of any form of protest against the wrongs committed by the Nazis. The tearing down of a fair judicial system and the instillation of radical judges, who placed party and greed before justice. A government that kept almost everything they did secret from the people.

I could go on and on, but my point is, it looks more and more with each passing day in the US, like it looked in Nazi Germany. American's leaders should, after WWII, have examined the example of the horror that Nazism was in Europe, in order to see that the same types of evil things like the Nazis pulled off, NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN.

Instead the leaders did this:

Operation Paperclip

snip>

Wev was furious. He wrote a memo warning that "the best intrests of the United States have been subjugated to the efforts expended in 'beating a dead Nazi horse.'" He also declared that the return of these scientists to Germany, where they could be exploited by America's enemies, presented a "far greater security threat to this country than any former Nazi affiliations which they may have had or even any Nazi sympathies that they may still have."

When the JIOA formed to investigate the backgrounds and form dossiers on the Nazis, the Nazi Intelligence leader Reinhard Gehlen met with the CIA director Allen Dulles. Dulles and Gehlen hit it off immediatly. Gehlen was a master spy for the Nazis and had infilitrated Russia with his vast Nazi Intelligence network. Dulles promised Gehlen that his Intelligence unit was safe in the CIA.

Apparently, Wev decided to sidestep the problem. Dulles had the scientists dossier's re-written to eliminate incriminating evidence. As promised, Allen Dulles delivered the Nazi Intelligence unit to the CIA, which later opened many umbrella projects stemming from Nazi mad research.
(MK-ULTRA / ARTICHOKE, OPERATION MIDNIGHT CLIMAX)

Military Intelligence "cleansed" the files of Nazi refrences. By 1955, more than 760 German scientists had been granted citizenship in the U.S. and given prominent positions in the American scientific community. Many had been longtime members of the Nazi party and the Gestapo, had conducted experiments on humans at concentration camps, had used slave labor, and had comitted other war crimes. Much More...

http://www.unitedstatesgovernment.net/operationpaperclip.htm

[lvx35]

87. Right now it could go a lot of ways

Another country that rounded up minorities into detention centers in WWII and was secretive and filled with propaganda was one called the USA! I won't dig up links because you probably know our history.

The point is that this can go in any number of ways. You talk about the secret elements of fascism, which did exist, but you are missing the fact that there was blaring, external signs of fascism that are not present in America. I was watching a clip tonight, I a recommend you watch it.

http://www.bundestag.de/cgi-bin/ausst_wege/5_rede_hitlerx.avi

This clip shows hitler speaking at his rallies in 1933. I had never really watch Nazi propaganda before, and I was shocked to see it. One thing that was striking was the hypnotic use of the raised right hand...a method of mass hypnosis... The psychological effect being an empathy created with Hitler. Then the screaching, wailing cockroach voice that is Hitler...Overwhelmingly belligerent and filled with hate, even though his words would sound fairly reasonable at the time.
If you watch this video, you will see what I mean. There is NOTHING in America like this right now.

Bush is no Hitler, thankfully. But I see and understand the threat of totalitarianism and fascism, and I'm commited to fighting it. What the main thing I am seeing about Hitler is that is absent in Bush is the amount of control he had over people's hearts and minds. Bush has no such control. He has a lot of symbolic control, and he could probably create fear if he wanted to. But fear is only a part of what drove the german people in Nazi times. The second, and more powerful thing was hope, that was inspired by Hitlers utopian vision. Bush inspires no such vision, he offers no utopia. Therefore as far as fascist dictators go, (If you choose to view him as such) he's not really playing with a full deck.

Which is a very, very good thing! :)

[Hubert Flottz]

92. "he's not really playing with a full deck."

The US never tortured POWs, or any other prisoners during WWII, like the Bush Crew has!

Re: The Full Deck...Bush could be even more dangerous than Hitler if he gets a chance. He wants to out do Poppy and probably secretly wishes he could out do Hitler too.

I'm thinking more along the line of comparing the neocon ideology with the Nazi ideology. The parallels are there, right down to playing the church goers for suckers!

[lvx35]

105. idealogy of fear

regarding your speculation of what Bush secretly thinks, I would like to paraphrase Rumsfeld: "We fight Bush with the facts we have, not the facts we wish we had!" ;)

But regarding your point, I agree that there are some parts of the neo-con idealogy that is creepy. I was researching Hitler last night and learned a lot, too much to write here, but yes, I don't think the world has fully dealt with fascism yet.

But at the same time Bush look at it this way: If Bush is a fascist, if the conspiracy theories are correct, then you would learn a lot from looking at what he has 'done'. For Bush to use and not try to hide that he used torture, and orchestrate terrorist attacks (as the theories suggest) than one would have to conclude that his philosophy was based on fear as the uppermost motivating factor in man. (Which is incorrect)

The best way to fight that then would be to simply to not fear, and to fight fear itself in yourself, and refrain from sowing it in the hearts of others.

And running around on a forum saying Bush scarier than Hitler may not be the best to do that.

[Hubert Flottz]

117. I'm not afraid!

I just have this sinking feeling that never goes away! It started on 12/12/2000.

A rattlesnake is pretty too to some people, but a smart person never turns his back on one!

Alert not afraid...

[lvx35]

120. Good!

[bvar22]

115. "There is NOTHING in America like this right now."

You must have missed the Republican National Convention, especially Zell's performance.
BTW, bush* uses the raised right arm alot!

[lvx35]

119. Did you watch that clip?

or did I miss the part of the RNC where 100,000 men came out excercising in perfect unison in a vast field?

"bush* uses the raised right arm alot!"

No he doesn't. He waves at people. When Hitler did it legions of soldiers replied in a 1/4 second, so conditioned to do it that it was automatic.

[Sparkman]

103. Nazi Death Camps = U.S. sanctions & 3rd worlds' starv'n Living standard?

Can't the equivalence of sanctions by intimidation of Iraq/Cuba and now Latin American countries & African Debt caused by Banking loans' caveats of spending those loan assets on SPECIFIED U.S. MILITARY/U.S. CORPORATE product & nationalizing resources?! It insured continual debt & interest payment tripling & quadrupling the size of the payback? The level of suffering is more drawn out in some cases, and the lack of access to crippling illness treatments can be as painful as outright TORTURE PRACTICES. OH, guess what Alberto Gonzales says there is a Bush Policy Paper approving TORTURE of prisoners. Nazi is as Nazi does.

[Hubert Flottz]

83. The "Final Solution" wasn't agreed upon, until the Nazis had, ...

had total control of the German government for about seven years. The neocons still have plenty of time to make plans...

Remember that Bush's power is pretty much unchecked now and will be even more so after the instillation of two new neocon supreme court flunkies!

THe fat lady is just getting tuned up!

[lvx35]

89. Please see my post above.

Control of the Supreme Court, Congress, or even the voting machines is not CONTROL. The only CONTROL that matters is control of the people's hearts and minds. When the leader lifts up his right arm, and within 1/4 of a second 100,000 screaming people do the exact same thing like robots, then my friend, is when th fat lady sings. But not until.

[Hubert Flottz]

98. Bush has the TVs!

His party controls what the people in the US think, just as much as Hitler controlled the German people! Look how the people in the US sucked up to Bush for months after 9/11. Bush and Rudy were worshiped like Gods for a while, even by the opposition party members. A "Dirty Bomb" is about all Bush would need to scare people into submission again. Bushco has used FEAR as a weapon against us, ever since 9/11...(terra lerts and so on) Hitler was a "War President" too in his day!

I hope and pray that I am wrong, but I don't think that I am. Too many other people around the world see the glaring similarities too, so it isn't just me you'll need to convince. Nice Try though! :hi: :beer:

[lvx35]

116. Okay, he's Hitler, now what?

seriously. now what? How do you defeat him? I'm arguing because I am sick off all these chicken littles running around screaming that the sky is falling in without having a PLAN, if he is a dictator. At this point, Bush doesn't NEED to be a dictator, he already is: He commands the same amount of fear due to this whole crowd running around claiming that he's Hitler. Yet if you were to actually embrace this and make a plan, you would soon the the counterproductive nature of the fear, and in acting without fear you would undermime him.

[Hubert Flottz]

122. I never said he was Hitler.

I said the neocons operate like the Nazis.

Have a good day...

[Sparkman]

109. Control access to Corp. Wealth with Neo-Con ideological purity...NAZI's!

The threat to the U.S. citizenry is becoming less subtle. The wealthy can obtain 6 figure positions ONLY with CONFORITY & LOCK-STEP allegiance to the ** party line ** Lesser jobs are doled out to the bureacrats, pay is 50K. If you want 6 figures, you go to hollywood and hope you're odds are miniscule, or you join the neo-con party.

[Touchdown]

99. How the GOP will treat gays when the time is right.

[Generic Other]

6. Apparently, I uttered the "N" word for those who are monitoring

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4060875

[Tommymac]

13. Please don't pull a Durbin....

and start apologizing and crying ... I couldn't take it if another Dem buckled under after saying what needed to be said.

The RW Propaganda Machine will cherry pick and spin this and other progressive sites no matter what we say or do. And if they can't find anything to cherry pick - they will make it up.

We can't keep giving in to them...it's time to stop being Chamberlain's and start being Churchill's.

[Generic Other]

28. My father never told a lie in his whole life

I want to be like him.

[DanCa]

9. Can I use the word swell?

I would hate to think that I would be the cause of sending Rush back into illegal drug use. As for Hannity well the man interupted a Hospice for crying out loud he has no shame.

[Bouncy Ball]

10. Then don't tell people you post here.

While I personally don't use the Nazi comparison (as someone said above fascist wannabes fits them better anyway), I really bristle at anyone saying we CAN'T use it when the repukes use it ALL THE FUCKING TIME.

So they can, but we can't?

Oooookay.

[Hissyspit]

11. Here's the deal. If we can't compare people to Nazis, then...

they can commit ANY atrocious Nazi-like behavior UP to murdering millions in gas chambers, and no one can call them on their Nazi-like behavior. Sorry, I'm not buying it.

[Quixote1818]

20. I said it could be used but only in the most extreme cases.

nt

[cascadiance]

23. This is beginning to sound like the fillibuster "deal"!

Thanks, but no thanks!

[Hissyspit]

26. I understand your point, but read desi's post (#12)

Who decides it's exteme enough?

[inthebrain]

22. I agree

The problem is using Nationalism to enforce obedience. The Brownshirt bastards chased Maher off of ABC after 9/11.

They also stole and election and sent their thugs to stop the Florida recount.

I think the real probelm is that we dont use this accusation of enough!!!!!

[desi]

12. A common mistake. When somebody says Nazi the first thing to come to mind

...is 6 Million Dead Jews. Yes that is so. Also murdered were Homosexuals, Gypsies, Mentally Retarded, etc. Nazism was about much more than Genocide, it was about Racism, Bigotry, xenophobia, it was also about invading sovereign nations under false pretenses, BOMBING cities inhabited by Civilians, sinking merchant ships, and who knows what other crimes against humanity were committed by Nazis. Oh, I forgot torture and scientific experiments on human subjects. I see some similarities, yes I do.....

[inthebrain]

16. The early Regime

Is very simialar to that of Bush.

An air of legality in all things was crucial for the Nazis not to cause panic while doing horrible things. Not many are willing to examine that fact.

What we have with the Partiot Act, treatment of gay and treatment of Liberals is very simialar. Not to mention the anti secular BS they spew like"America is a Christian country".

If that so be the case where does that leave everyone else?

If Hannity and Limbaugh dont like the Nazi slur, maybe they should stop acting like them and supportng them. The brutal assault on the media by the Right over the years is also very simialar to Nazi germany as well.

[rucky]

78. YEP!!!

the party was in power for some time before they built the death camps. They're using history as their playbook, it's only right that we reveal the ending of the story before it unfolds.

gitmo...Abu Gharib... how much can they get away with?

[Hissyspit]

17. Very good. See my post #11 above. n/t

[Bouncy Ball]

31. Yep, it was about fascism.

And there are 14 characteristics of fascism in government:

Powerful and Continuing Nationalism

Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights

Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause

Supremacy of the Military

Controlled Mass Media

Obsession with National Security

Religion and Government are Intertwined

Corporate Power is Protected

Labor Power is Suppressed

Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts

Obsession with Crime and Punishment

Rampant Cronyism and Corruption

Fraudulent Elections

Rampant Sexism

[bloom]

110. And they were masters of propaganda

Some of which was directed toward getting people to hate Jewish people - but that wasn't all it was about.

I agree that we shouldn't reduce the Nazis to being just about the genocide of Jewish people. It was a lot more than that.

And it's no wonder that some people would like for us to ignore the other aspects of Nazi society. Harder to make Bush* comparisons if only the genocidal aspect is considered.

[cascadiance]

14. I'll stop saying it (and I don't much) when he disavows using "Feminazi"!

It works both ways! And that is the thing that the Rethugs need to understand. If they want to trash talk us, it's going to come right back at them. He started using that term way before Democratic Underground even existed, so I don't think he can afford to say that "we started it!"

[Swamp Rat]

15. The shoe fits

[jobycom]

19. Bush is Hitler.

Sorry. I hear you, but I don't agree. I don't make the comparison lightly, but when you have a president like Bush, who causes the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, who uses hatred and fear as a weapon and a political campaign device, and who spouts much the same rhetoric as Hitler, the comparison should be made.

People act like Hitler was a monster, not a human: a force of evil, not a flawed man. The scariest fact about Hitler to me is that he believed he was good. He believed he was doing the right thing. So did his followers. There were those in Germany who tried to oppose him, who tried to warn others of the danger in his words and actions. And there were Hitler's defenders, deriding Hitler's opponents as extremists, nutcases, and just plain rude. Which side do you wish the German people had listened to? Which side do you wish the world had listened to? The side telling Hitler's opponents to shut up?

The only significant difference between Hitler and Bush was the number of dead--not the character of the person. Bush has shown that not only does he disregard human life, but he enjoys killing. His mockery of Karla Faye Tucker, his zeal in signing execution orders of men who may have been innocent, his eagerness to justify torture and slaughter on false charges, on a global scale, makes him, at least, in the category of Hitler. And Bush has one thing Hitler never had. Nukes. Bush could equal Hitler's totals in an evening.

Remember Bush's first memo? He justified using a nuclear first strike against seven nations. Iraq, Iran and North Korea were on that list. You don't think he dreams at night of doing just that? You don't think this man truly wants to? Then you haven't been paying attention. In 99 he did an interview claiming that a war would be the best way to get him in the history books. He claimed even then he would invade Iraq if he got the chance. Anyone not terrified of this man and what he could do is just uninformed.

THAT'S why I compare Bush to Hitler. To prevent what Bush could do. I'm not worried about being polite to Bush's supporters. I'm more concerned about convincing anyone who will listen that this is not your average bad president. This is a monster in the making. Maybe they won't listen. But if they have at least heard the warnings, then maybe they'll see the signs when he goes too far. Maybe people will pay more attention to his extremes. Maybe. It's the best I can do, anyway. Being nice to Freepers won't help, it will just lull more people to sleep.

[Generic Other]

30. You have the astute eye of an old master

Do you paint in oils? I bow to the incredible lifelike portrait you have painted!

[jobycom]

107. Ah, gee, thanks!

:-)

[Swamp Rat]

59. echo...

[Beam Me Up]

60. "To prevent what Bush could do." That's exactly right.

If one really lets in what has been going on -- how this man and his neocon cronies have set the stage for a "never ending war" AND put in place the infrastructure for a police state -- how can one NOT compare what is going on to pre-WWW II Germany? The very fact that his grandfather was a banker for the Nazi's make the comparison even more legitimate. And you are absolutely right WE ARE LIVING IN AN AGE WHERE EVERY CITY IS A POTENTIAL AUSCHWITZ.

These people are not merely politicians. Bush is the first born son of a global criminal family, aligned with other global criminal familie through ties of blood, money and blackmail. Whether you call them "Nazi" or not, they are hell bent on maintaining and furthering their economic, political and military control of the entire population of this planet. Worse, they have been getting away with it.

One thing is clear. They will not stop until they ARE stopped.

[Hubert Flottz]

112. "This is a monster in the making"

I could not agree more! Every point you make is dead on! If Hitler had had Bush's firepower, we wouldn't be sitting here today talking about the USA, we'd be in the 60th year of the "Thousand Year Reich"! The neocon's "New World Order" is not much different than Hitler's "World Order". The goals are exactly the same, WORLD DOMINATION, and a ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT! Arrogance is the thing that makes the Nazis and the neocons so much the same! Love or Peace are really not factors in the neocon plan!

The sad part is that the US could do so much to make this country and the world a better place for everyone, but we are on a sorry path that only benefits the "Haves" and the "Have More's".

[IChing]

21. you know what I think?

Nice Acceptances , Zero Introspection
on freedom of speech.

[TheGoodCitizen]

27. I feel a BIG wave of....

Self (leading to Historic levels of State) censorship drawing near... I knew it was coming! I felt it coming! I have done my best to speak out and be heard!

After several years of "Mega Ditto's" from Rush Limpballs, Fox "News" and listening to the Bush Administration the effects of this MASSIVE war time propaganda effort have taken it's tole on the masses in mysterious ways... they have almost succeeded in totally shutting us up. I hope I am wrong, but I feel that it's true!

Darkness Draws Near!

:yoiks:

[Generic Other]

32. You and me brother

The OP won't even respond to me even though I was the one being targetted by the thread.

[TheGoodCitizen]

44. Ouch...... and now it's gone!

If that's not self-censorship, I don't know what is.

[Generic Other]

47. And re-appeared in a new form

Orwell told me there'd be days like this!

[AverageJoe]

34. There's a communication theory that supports your fear

It's called Spiral of Silence. Basically, it argues that people don't speak up because they don't want to go against their perception of what the majority believes, even though their perception of what the majority believes may be horribly flawed.

Here's the irony vis this thread: The theory was posited by a former Nazi and has been criticized as being a rationalization for the German acceptance of Hitler's atrocities.

[Bouncy Ball]

40. Groupthink.

That Spiral of Silence thing is a major component of Groupthink. Consensus above all.

[TheGoodCitizen]

46. Spiral of Silence

Thanks for posting that.... I'm going to do a google and do some more reading about this communication theory. :hi:

Amazing people here at DU!

[rooboy]

33. Your post seems to assume that Nazism=Holocaust.

It doesn't. There is a lot to the Third Reich that applies directly to the shortcomings of the current administration and its supporters.

If you can call someone a communist, then you can call someone else a Nazi. It's a political philosophy that can be fairly used in in political debate.

Have you ever MET a real Nazi? I have - my wife's grandparents lived under nazism (the grandfather was captured by the Russians), and they continued to support Hitler until their deaths.

I think it's entirely appropriate to call something by its proper name.

[cascadiance]

38. It's true, not all communists were as murderous as Stalin was

... to his own people too. That was more due to Stalin the man and his cadre of Bolsheviks than that failed political system.

[cascadiance]

35. I do agree about the alzheimer's thing though...

Wishing that on anyone is not being sensitive to the hell it wreaks on many people.

Just a few months ago, my dad, who already has alzheimers, had an emergency operation, and complications from that which were aggravated by his dementia, lead to him almost dying in the same fashion Terry Schiavo died (they couldn't feed him for a while) at the same time she died as well. I was going through hell then and being reminded of it daily by the wingnuts trying to "save Terry". Fortunately my dad was able to survive and get beyond that and is now free of the need for assisted feeding, but anyone wishing on others the condition he's been enduring for the last few years is not something I like to hear.

[Generic Other]

36. Thread was self-deleted because it was having the opposite effect?

Huh? What were you hoping for? A pacifist/fascist love-in?

[TheGoodCitizen]

(edit: I dont know why this keeps double posting on me..... )

[TheGoodCitizen]

41. I move to have my comments taken down!!!

(edit: I feel cheated)

[Zorra]

42. OOOh, I'm skeeeeered!

We are being monitored by a hard core dope addict and his flying monkeys!

Woe and gnashing of teeth!

The RW hates it when we compare them to Nazis - because they know that it's true that they are just like them in so many ways.

I encourage you to study the Nazis - I am sure that with honest research you will find that the American Right Wing is almost as equally as loony and deluded as the Nazis of the '30s and 40's, and that the comparison between American RWers and Nazis is valid and appropriately descriptive.

And NAZI is such an appropriate word for the majority of right wingers! And who gives a flying fuck what Rush Limbaugh says or thinks - he is a confused and pathetic drug addict who used a synthetic heroin like substance for years, and it rotted the poor guys' brain while destroying his conscience at the same time.

Get a grip, man. Stand up to the fascists and call them out for their monstrous, nazi like actions. You sound more afraid of the RW than a DLC Democrat.
New bush hitler

[Sparkman]

91. RESTRICT THE F'g U.S. NAZIs - OUT THEM. TURN ON THE LIGHTS!

[Zorra]

97. Here are the fascists that tell Bu*h what to do: DU's PNAC Library:

(Thanks to Stephanie)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=110&topic_id=80&mesg_id=80

[Sparkman]

101. Bitchen.

[Generic Other]

43. First I'm called out then the caller hides

Zell, is that you??

[Quixote1818]

48. Woops, I edited the title and meant to use the word liberal instead of

Conservative. Sorry

[TheGoodCitizen]

50. Sorry, but that's HILARIOUS!

:rofl:

Sorry!

[TheGoodCitizen]

51. I just nominated it too.....

I bet it will be one of the Greatest now!

[Generic Other]

52. Well go fix it man!

:rofl:

[TheGoodCitizen]

55. NOW it's definitely going to have the opposite effect....

intended by the OP.

[AuntPatsy]

49. But you have no problem with these individuals calling Dems

and liberals commies, traitors, baby killers just to name a few of their ongoing selection of derogotory terms when talking about those on the left? Who cares honestly, if the shoe fits......

[lala_rawraw]

53. Okay, as a Jew

And an intelligent human, not to mention a student of history, make no mistake:

Nazi does not equal HITLER and it is the latter that should not be used in the way you suggest. Also, there is a big difference between the Nazi regime in its early years and the horror of what came to be called the final solution.

So those who actually become magically transported through time at the word Nazi need to understand the historical difference of the early regime and the final solution regime. Bush is no Hitler, that is for sure. Is Bush a Nazi, maybe... right now he is more of a Fascist, but the Nazi MO is quite striking.

[Swamp Rat]

66. Ever read "War against the Weak" by Edwin Black?

"How American corporate philanthropies launched a national campaign of ethnic cleansing in the United States, helped found and fund the Nazi eugenics of Hitler and Mengele — and then created the modern movement of 'human genetics.'"

http://www.waragainsttheweak.com/

[lala_rawraw]

86. I am quite aware

of America's role in this, but how is this applicable to my comment?

[MisterP]

111. I think he was just supplementing it: the U.S. and the Nazis had ties

going way back, and only those on one side of the Atlantic were given their just rewards. Some in the U.S. even managed to spawn TWO Presidents...

[Swamp Rat]

128. Thank you n/t

[lala_rawraw]

131. thank you:)

[IChing]

54. Did HE Just Change History? I mean rewrite history?

Rewrite the post? Does that mean anything?
boy.............?

[TheGoodCitizen]

57. Interesting.... I'm waking up to it now!

:hangover:

[Generic Other]

58. If you don't see all that you think

and you don't think all you see, you'll be fine.

And quit calling people Nazi. We will now substitute the word "naughty." They are exceedingly naughty.

[Sapphire Blue]

56. IMO 'fascist' is more appropriate, but if the brownshirt fits...

oooooh :scared: ... monitored by Rush & Hannity... should I be intimidated & coerced into not speaking the TRUTH, and accepting fascist rule? Not as long as I live & breathe.

Hey Rush... hey, Hannity... monitor this...

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, will take our country back from the RW fascists!

[Swamp Rat]

62. I see you edited the title of this thread

:rofl: :applause:

[Generic Other]

63. Three times

:rofl:

[nolabels]

90. That has even kinda of a " YIKES" to it

I would even go so far as to say

s.net/animate/webl2.htm

[Stinky The Clown]

64. I often use 'Nazi' to describe the thugs now in power. And I'll keep doing

it.

Nazi.

There, by god, I did it again.

Nazi. Oops, again.

Nazi. Yeah, that feels good.

What? I'm offending Rush? Isn't that too bad. Ya know what? Rush offends me.

Nazi. Damn ..... just keeps coming out.

Nazi. Wow, will it ever end?

Rush is going to repeat the fact that I said Nazi? Damn, what a Nazi thing to do.

Damn Nazis.

[AuntPatsy]

65. lol

[Swamp Rat]

67. HAHAHA!!!!

:rofl:

[converted_democrat]

95. LOL!

:rofl:

[Individualist]

68. If the jackboot fits,

wear it!!

[Generic Other]

69. This topic is popping up all over DU

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4067851

[PittLib]

71. I'm going to repost this ...

With all this "Nazi" talk, I'd like to cite Tony Kushner...
from A Bright Room Called Day:


Third Interruption
German Lessons

Zillah

German lessons. Listen:
"Das Massengrab." Mass grave.
"Die Zeit war sehr schlimm." Times were bad.
"Millionen von Menschen waren tot." Millions of people were dead.

People try to be so fussy and particular when they look at politics, but what I think an understanding of the second half of the twentieth century calls for is not caution and circumspection but moral exuberance. Overstatement is your friend: use it.

Take Evil: The problem is that we have this event - Germany, Hitler, the Holocaust - which we have made into THE standard of absolute Evil - well and good, as standards of Evil go, it's not bad - but then everyone gets frantic as soon as you try to use the standard, nothing compares, nothing resembles - and the standard becomes unusable and nothing qualifies as Evil with a capital E. I mean how much of a Nazi do you have to be to qualify for membership? Is a twenty-five-percent Nazi a Nazi or not?

Ask yourselves this: it's 1942; the Goerings are having an intimate soiree; if he got an invitation, would Pat Buchanan feel out of place? Out of place? Are you kidding? Pig heaven, dust off the old tuxedo, kisses to Eva and Adolph. I mean just because a certain ex-actor-turned-President who shall go nameless sat idly by and watched tens of thousands die of a plague and he couldn't even bother to say he felt bad about it, much less try to help, does this mean he merits comparison to a certain fascist-dictator anti-Semitic mass-murdering psychopath who shall also remain nameless? OF COURSE NOT! I mean I ask you - how come the only people who ever say "Evil" anymore are southern cracker televangelists with radioactive blue eyeshadow? None of these bastards look like Hitler, they never will, not exactly, but I say as long as they look like they're playing in Mr. Hitler's Neighborhood we got no reason to relax.
I never relax. I can work up a sweat reading the Sunday Times. I read, I gasp, I hit the streets at three a.m. with my can of spray paint:
REAGAN EQUALS HITLER! RESIST! DON'T FORGET, WEIMAR HAD A CONSTITUTION TOO!
Moral exuberance. Hallucination, revelation, gut-flutters in the night - the internal intestinal night bats, their panicky leathery wings - that's my common sense. I pay attention to that.
Don't put too much stock in a good night's sleep. During times of reactionary backlash, the only people who are sleeping soundly are the guys who're giving the rest of us bad dreams. So eat something indigestible before you go to bed, and listen to your nightmares.

(End of interruption.)


Reagan era - yet fitting ...



I agree that "Nazi" is overused ... to the point that I cringe when I hear it. Liberals and conservatives have more important issues to fight over than who gets license to use the word to describe the other.

[burrowowl]

73. NAZI fascism equals

corporatism. Dixit Mussolini!
And has nothing to do with Socialism!
Also remember KKK: Kirken, Kinder, Kutchen! (Church, Children, Kitchen) for te ladies!

[alittlelark]

77. uh, yeah...............

Where exactly are those windmills? Not in the Nazi death-camps.... that's for sure.

[bvar22]

79. If I EVER start worrying about

If I EVER start worrying about Flush Limbaugh is gonna say, just throw me in the ovens!

"Hey Everybody!!! Don't talk about the Reality of what is happening in America because Rush will say something bad about us!":scared:

For the definitive comparison of the Bush* Administration and Republican Party to the Nazi Party, read Thom Hartmann's "When Democracy Failed"

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0316-08.htm

Hey Rush!!!
Please read the following "on the air". If you do, I will send you the rest
of my mother's Oxycontin Perscription!

For comparisons of the Bush* Republican Party to Stalinism, read this:

The Republicans have been In Charge of America for 5 years. Are we beginning to look like Stalin's Soviet Union?


*Secret Prisons where people are "disappeared"

*Dismantling of Individual Protections from Government

*Torture as a National Policy

*Police State Powers Increasing

*One Party Government (No Effective Opposition Party)

*Absurd (OBSCENE) and expanding Military Budgets

*Dismantling of Humanitarian Programs to pay for Military

*Restricting access to information about government

*Restricting access to information contradicting Republican Party ideals (birth control).

*Rewriting (forging) scientific data to support Republican Party ideals

*State Owned Media

*Persecution of Dissent

*HyperNationalism masquerading as Patriotism

*SMALL Class of VERY POWERFUL ELITES

*Bogus and unverifiable elections

*Private Police and Security Forces not accountable to the Public.

*Republican Party Secret Police to screen at Bush* appearances

*NO Civilian Control and Oversight of Military

*Highest percentage imprisoned in Western World

*Potemkin Villages for the Press and Red Cross (Iraq and Guantanamo)

*Rampant Historical Revisionism

*Privileges and Access for Republican Party Members Only

*Ruling by Executive Order

*Judiciary controlled by Executive Branch

*Legislative Organs controlled by Executive Branch

*Power Consolidated and Concentrated in One Person

*Government Officials WARNING to be careful what we say

*Controlled and Scripted PUBLIC appearances of Republican Party Officials

*Government encouraging citizens to spy on each other

*Secret files on law abiding citizens

*Manufactured phony State Heroes (Tillman, Lynch)

*State Medals awarded by Cronyism and Republican Party Loyalty, not merit

*Policy of Government Officials being "Above the Law".

*Odor of Arrogance and Contempt from Republican Party Officials




I am NOT EQUATING the USA today with Stalin's Russia.
I AM saying we are moving in that direction.


Feel free to add to the list or dispute my claims.

[leftchick]

80. NAZI NAZI NAZI NAZI NAZI NAZI NAZI NAZI NAZI

if the shoe fits... :eyes:




This photo is from Helsinki before the Iraq war. I think those folks recognize a Nazi when the see one.

[mmonk]

81. I vote for the word, "neo-fascism".

If we can be portrayed around the country as terrorist sympathizers and communists, I'll call that lying scum ANYTHING I WANT.

[ChickMagic]

85. I wouldn't call DimSon a Nazi

But Hitler would have voted for him. :P

[ArkDem]

88. too

[Sparkman]

93. CENSURSHIP-CORP. MEDIA CONTROL-RELIGIOUS DOMINANCE

CRIMINALIZATION OF THE POOR-TORTURE OF ENEMIES WITHIN & WITHOUT-MILITARY USED IN DOMESTIC POLICY ENFORCEMENT-BORDER XENOPHOBIA-WAGING WAR ALL OVER THE PLANET FOR CORP. GAIN-GREATEST PRISION POPULATION-GOVERNMENT CONSPIRACY ALLEVIATING CORPORATE CONFORMITY TO ECO-SCIENCE
just exactly which part of Nazi Germanany is missing in the U.S.?
Oh right, were not quite fully assimilated, YET?!! Denial is not river in Africa PEOPLE...WAKE UP!!

[libodem]

102. all I can say is summed up right here:

http://www.bushflash.com/nazi.html

[Lilith Velkor]

108. Bush is not a Nazi so stop saying that!

msg to Rush, Hannity and all their FASCIST fans:

http://66.230.230.110/geeklog/public_html/staticpages/index.php?page=20040601225012523

[libodem]

123. thanx for the link

I'm saving it....It should be it's own thread!

[Zorra]

129. Great flash. n/t

[hnsez]

113. Damn Trolls, My Grandfather was a Nazi

He wasn't an ideologue but he did serve in the German infantry. My mother was in the Hitler youth along with millions of other kids. Calling someone a Nazi is full of emotion and empty of specifics.

It took a few decades to wring the "racial purity" mind set out of them.

Both of them accepted & loved my African American wife.

[inthebrain]

132. Please explain

How we are going to cleanse these thoughts from the homophobes. Ya know them gays are supposed to be a threat to the sanctity of marriage.

Kind of hard to fight the homophobia in society wen they president and his Republicans are spreading hate throughout the country. Unless you thin that Gays are on some other level of existence.

Single mothers are another group that Bush would like to putinto group homes.

[hnsez]

133. in terms of hate driven by religious ideology then yes, they are nazis

[johannes1984]

114. I like domination monkeys

[Lilith Velkor]

124. Poop-flinging howler monkeys

That's how I tend to put it.

[johannes1984]

125. yes you put it ever so poetic

Bravo ,I had forgotten about their love for their fellow lowest of the lowest form of matter , feces

[Sapphire Blue]

130. Is this case extreme enough for me to exercise my First Amendment rights?

Rush & Hannity would be proud of you!



Rush, Hannity, this one's for you...