Once again Democrats will shoot themselves in the foot by nominating...

[mpsteve]

Dean

Just like 2000, the Dems will be their own worst enemy.

Gore had the economy going for him and he ran a populist campaign.

They said Gore didn't know himself, had multiple personalities and what did we see in the debates...an Al Gore, who listened way too much to the debate critics and consequently had completely different demeanors in all three debates.

The Democrats had the Republican Party's back to the wall during the recount and somehow let it slip away by not insisting a STATEWIDE recount every five minutes...even if they had originally asked for only four counties...NO they thought they could win a court battle...SURPRISE!

Now, we are on the verge of nominating a very intelligent guy. Unfortunately, this will be Dukakis Part II.

[sfecap]

1. News flash: Gore won.

nice flame bait, though....

[Must_B_Free]

5. *sigh*

Al Gore is not running
He doesn't want to run
He's a loser
he's boring
etc. etc,

Usual Bullshit

[LastDemInIdaho]

28. So Gore won. Big deal.

Why is he not addressing us from the oval office? Trying to picture what the US would look like if he "officially" won is depressing since we are stuck without him setting policy.

[SammyWinstonJack]

35. Apparently, "officially" winning had nothing to do with it.

Perhaps you don't know, but the reason Pres Elect Gore is not "addressing" us from the Oval Office is because the SCOTUS intervened and stole the Presidency. This blame the victim BS is really getting old!

[arcos]

2. <yawwwnnnnn>

[poskonig]

3. Dean is the Heavyweight in the race.

Dean knows how to fundraise and organize support. He has excellent centrist credentials, a great record in Vermont, and a charisma that works with regular people. In addition, he endured a well-organized hate campaign in Vermont over the CU issue to the point where he had to wear a bulletproof vest, which makes him the ideal candidate to beat on the Bush hate-machine.

[eileen_d]

4. What is your goal in posting this?

I really wonder about some of these threads.

[ryharrin]

6. Where in your post do you make any kind of rational argument that Dean

will lose? The only sentence that related to Dean was calling him Dukakis II. Dean is a much more exciting guy than Gore or Dukakis ever were. Kinda like Clinton was. Or maybe Carter.

[AP]

7. Gore didn't run a populist campaign. I think that was just something

Republicans say now to discourage people from running a populist campaign.

This is what I remember Gore running on: I'm more ethical than Bill Clinton, and I'll give senior citizens a prescription drug plan, and I won't raid the SS fund to pay for anything but SS.

That's not a populist campaign. A populist campaign is: we have to fix this ridiculous tax code, we have to shift the burden off of the people who are suffering (the middle class) and we have to start asking the people who are getting much richer (even in a shrinking economy) to pay their fair share.

[JI7]

joe lieberman

getting lieberman for vp said a lot about what he was going for. he gave into right wingers wanting the campaign to be about personal morals with that. and didn't allow clinton to campaign for him.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

17. I will vote for Sharpton before Lieberman!!!!

I am sick and tired of he and Evan ("Bitch") Bayh whining about how we Dem's who opposed the Iraq War are "soft on defense"!!!

It offends me just how I am offended when a FReeper questions my patriotism!!!!


Let's nominate a real Democrat in 04'! Not Lieberman!!!!!

[charlie]

9. Credit where credit is due

The DLC (and Mr Lieberman) have been the prime culprits banging the "Gore lost because he went populist" drum.

[AP]

19. Does anyone here think he ran as a populist?

I think he ran a poor campaign (I don't think it was so poor that he shouldn't have won -- it just wasn't smart). And I think the thing that was missing was a more direct appeal to populism.

During the campaign, there was a poll that came out that said most Americans felt that the taxes they were paying were fair and that they were inclined to pay more if it meant that the money was being invested in things that made America better and richer, and people happier and healthier.

I think he really missed a moment to talk about the rights, responsibilities, privileges and duties of citizenship at a time when people were feeling that America had a great deal of untapped potential and were looking for ways to make it better at a time when there didn't seem to be a lot at risk.

[boxster]

30. It's also been claimed by posters on DU

recently - in the last few days, in fact. One was trying to justify nominating a "true" liberal by claiming that Gore picked up more votes once he started running as a "populist".

Actually, it was an anti-Clark post, claiming he (Clark) was a die-hard Republican. Imagine that.

[EagleEye]

8. Sounds Like someone is scared

Dean can and will win. That's what frightens some people.

[mpsteve]

11. Yes, scared that Dean will be the nominee!

[mpsteve]

18. Never

[NicoleM]

10. so what should we do?

Nominate a really stupid guy?

[realFedUp]

12. I sent Dean money again after today's debate

just felt right. Wonder if it's a general response
after these debates?

[dolstein]

13. Sorry, but the Dems never had the upper hand on the recount

For the simple reason that (a) time was on the Republicans' side, (b) the chief elections official in Florida was a Republican and (c) the Republican legislature was prepared to award the electors to Bush by legislative fiat and (d) the U.S. Supreme Court.

Al Gore could call for a statewide recount all he wanted -- he didn't have the power to make it happen.

[alcuno]

14. I really don't understand your argument.

What does Howard Dean have to do with Al Gore? I don't see the similarities?

I think that there are several candidates who could beat *. He has lost the trust of a large amount of the electorate and that's not something that is going to come back.

[trumad]

16. mpsteve has the knowledge of a tree stump

when it comes to the 2000 elections...

[mpsteve]

20. Yes, CPA's are usually pretty stupid. Lawyers too!!!

[clar]

31. knowledge and

intelligence are not the same, oh brilliant one.

[alcuno]

36. You'd think one would be able to make a credible argument.

I guess not.

[Cha]

15. Sigh! I'm so Tired of that Damn Defeatist attitude...

That's proper bullshit, that. You obviously haven't studied on the history of the two candidates, thoroughly! It's nothing like the history you are bringing up.

[maxanne]

21. mpsteve

you started 2 Dean bashing threads in less than 10 minutes, tonight on DU. A successful disrupter would be a little less obvious. :eyes:

[mpsteve]

22. Thanks for your concern!

[Cha]

24. Yeah..we'll see how long this lasts.

[mpsteve]

29. Still going...You hate the truth...Raising taxes is a LOSING issue!

[Cha]

32. At least I see the truth which is more than I can say for you.

[tsipple]

23. Feed the Goal, Not the Troll

Give to the Troll Fund.

[Cha]

27. Thanks! I just feed the troll fund!

Makes me feel better, immediately! What a concept! :D

[SammyWinstonJack]

25. How many ways can it be said?

Gore won! Still blaming the victim I see. Oh well, it IS the American way, AFTER ALL. Gore lost a court case ,he was never going to win. He WON the election. I am about as sick of the Dems blaming Gore for selection 2000 as I am of the Repukes blaming Clinton for everything Bush is doing now. I don't need this crap. What makes any of us think that no matter who we nominate, that the repukes won't pull the same dirty tricks they did in 2000? Also, what makes us think that whatever they pull to steal it again, that the Democratic Leadership and the party members will fight for said nominee? We sure as hell as a Party didn't fight for Gore did we? Yet we still blame Gore. It is no wonder the repukes are able to steal elections from us.

[HawkerHurricane]

26. Enough already

If you don't like the candidates, say so. Show how your favorite is better. Bashing doesn't build your guy up, it just tears them all down.

I feel that most of the Dem candidates can win. Especially the front runners, of which Dean is one. A good VP pick, a well run campaign in the final months, and a Bush mistake (which he WILL make) and the next President will have D next to his name.

[SammyWinstonJack]

34. Thank you!

:hi: I am sick of all this bashing. I support all the Democratic Presidential Candidates. May the man/woman win! Anyone but Bush!

[Capn Sunshine]

33. OH My Friend you HAVE MUCH TO LEARN

you REALLY have to get out more, and maybe attend a Meetup this coming Wednesday near you to fully grasp the phenomenon of Howard Dean. (http://www.meetup.com)

Whereas Wesley Clark's might be the "Last Media candidacy", Howard Dean is running the "First Internet campaign". What this means is all your conventional wisdom, gleaned from traditional sources in their customary newsgathering roles doing their traditional---by this I mean the way things have been done since their fathers returned to work after World War 2----all that you rely on for your political weathervane are suddenly quite inadequate.

This is not going to show up overnight, not until the first returns appear in an actual primary election. It's possible that Howard Dean's supporters may sway the California Recall vote so that it doesn't pass, and I maintain this might be the case. But my point here is you have no idea what you are talking about when you use conventional media sources to dismiss out of hand a candidate without considering the nature of the candidates organization.

We are talking the new wave model, and it's so invigorating to the body politic not a moment goes by that I don't extol the joy of discovery to all who will listen. We are on our way to another record breaking quarter of fund raising, and ---here's the new wave part, pal, PAY ATTENTION, we are doing it with nickels and dimes online. We have a volunteer base of over 400,000 registered vols, this does not count the unregistered.In August during the campaign’s four-day Sleepless Summer tour, 17,717 Americans contributed $1,032,903.94. The thing is, the average donation was $58.30. That leaves us $ 1941.00 cushion on the maximum. WE ARE FUNDING A CAMPAIGN WITHOUT SPECIAL INTERESTS!

What's different is this is NOT your fathers party structure moving this , this is AMERICA, it's everyone, it's anyone, and we are exhilarated! to see our efforts are WORKING , our numbers are VAST, and our ability to sieze victory is real and true.

We are bringing in the most important part of the electorate to combat the very woes you bemoan. They are pissed off, they will NEVER get over the theft of 2000, or the coup attempt of 1999, or any other of the arrogant insults to our sensibilities the neocons are perpetrating daily. Who are they you ask:

THEY ARE THE 66% OF ELIGIBLE VOTERS WHO DIDN'T-WOULDN'T- HAVEN'T VOTED IN THE PAST 15 YEARS. Because they didn't feell like they had a reason to.

If you purport to know anything about politics, you know very well that group contains numbers awesome enough to swamp any party currently participating in the American electoral system.

Guess what? Howard dean is speaking to these folks! He's getting them to register as Democrats for crying out loud! The sweetest part of this experiment is that we have proven conclusively via our fundraising IT'S GONNA WORK !!! This ain't no "Party structure" candidacy, pal. It's something new and vital and 21st century and 18th century grass roots revolutionary all in one. It's the new thing, Jack, and you aren't going to find out anything about it watching TV or reading the news. They reflect the glow , but they can't create it. We are excited and passionate about this because we have tapped the mother lode of voting and NO OTHER CANDIDATE has a clue about this; these folks, numerous as they are, don't show up on political radar ; it's this very fact that both identifies them and motivates them. After the fact, there will be myriad stories about this phenomena. But for now, we are just busy organizing, and the only way you'll truly KNOW about it is to see it for yourself. Because the last ones who will know are also your current sources of information.

[FlemingsGhost]

37. Halloween has come early to DU. Lotsa trolls about...

Boo!