you just can't keep up with all the conspiracy theories

[mopaul]

remember the good old days when there were only about half a dozen conspiracy theories, all of which were deemed crackpot ideas? jfk, rfk, mlk, and more recently, the 9/11 conspiracy theory industry.

but there are so many theories out there now that EVERY occurrence has conspiracy written all over it. and when you step back and look at it objectively, the whole fucking bushco disaster is one huge conspiracy, all connected, all interchangeable, and all the same event.

and when the government hides the truth, smashes the truth, and fashions an entire agenda on lies and secrets, there is nothing else one can do but come up with theories about it all. none of which can be proven or disproved.

every move and every action taken by bushco is a conspiracy to conquer earth for america. every terror attack and counter attack, every military action, every diplomatic and political action is the same, ghastly conspiracy, and someday soon, many of the crackpots will be vindicated and have 'i told you so' rights for decades.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bryant69]

4. Ha ha ha ha ha

The real conspiracy is to keep you talking about conspiracy theories. The so called conspiricy to silence conspiracy theorists was only a ruse to encourage them to talk about them more.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[GiovanniC]

7. You Seem To Be Engaged In a Conspiracy

-- To BLOW MY MIND!!!

[WhoWantsToBeOccupied]

11. As of late last night, posts still disappearing

I am getting more of the following than I have ever gotten on DU:

"The page you requested cannot be displayed.
This thread is locked, you can't reply to it.
The information you requested cannot be displayed because it is no longer available. If you think this is in error, please contact the site administrator."

I clicked on the top message below last night and tried to reply. The thread was already "locked":

Latest Discussion Threads
Page 1

General Discussion: Politics
Same as 9-11: "Exercises going on simultaneously". UNREAL!!!!!
Discussion started at Mon Jul-11-05 12:24 AM by NoSheep

General Discussion
Well here goes... a pooh thread and my first pic post
Discussion started at Mon Jul-11-05 12:23 AM by lonestarnot

[natrat]

2. conquer earth for america

conquer earth for his base; at least if it were for america there would be a very small and convoluted hint of goodnes to it

[ixion]

3. if there's any doubt

there is no doubt.

The reason there are more 'conspiracy' theories is that there are more staged events that prompt them.

Note how conspiracy theories do not form around events where the cause is well documented and the questions are answered.

Conspiracy theories are born from inconsistencies and from the refusal by government agencies to investigate those inconsistencies and the act itself. All the incidents aforementioned (jfk, rfk, mlk, 911) all have massive, gaping holes in the 'official' explanation, hence those who ask questions and refuse to accept thing at face value are forced into a category known as the 'conspiracy theorist', a.k.a. someone who is paying attention. ;-)

[CoffeeAnnan]

5. May be it is time we recognize that PNAC stands for

PROJECT FOR NEW AMERICAN CONSPIRACIES.

[Lerkfish]

6. Nearly every conspiracy I've noted about this administration has come true

there's this one I posted on another message board way back when Iraq was first invaded (note how many have since transpired) ...When I posted it, I was mercilessly harrassed and driven off the board for being "insane" and a "conspiracy theorist".


"I told you so", however is a hollow victory, since I'd have rather been wrong...

--------------

Here's just something to stimulate conversation. Here is my pet "conspiracy theory". I like to think about them, even if I view them with a healthy grain of salt...

How would the neocons achieve their goals?

I envision a three prong approach...

prong one: control all three branches of the government, and the intel community. Rumsfeld has already created his "CIA within the CIA" group, and the office of Homeland Security puts everything under the purview of Tom Ridge. More and more power controlled by less and less people.

prong two: quell with extreme prejudice the rights of citizens to protest by removing their access to due process, paving the road for political prisoners, like there used to be in South Africa. Sure, now its "suspected" terrorists, but how long until its anyone who disagrees with the administration? without access to legal counsel, the outside world and being held indefinitely and executed without trial, the US will have the ability to "disappear" citizens who are vocally antiadministration, and there won't be any way to prevent it since it will all be done in secret, with no protections.

prong three: rubber stamp the middle east, and then the world, in the US image. with prongs one and two in place, prong three will proceed without interference.

I know I'm extrapolating a bit, but you have to admit, everything is heading in this direction.

now, how will we know this plan is in place, or working in the coming days?

--elimination of civil liberties, weakening the ability of the citizens to stop the juggernaut
-- reshaping of the present character of the checks and balances system (like trying to stop filibustering), in such a way to advantage the executive branch over the other branches.
-- More and more "disappeared" people, along with executions in Guantanamo.
--

Also look for:
-- scenario: Bush loses the popular vote, again, and wins the electoral vote, but the chasm is wider, making it obvious the electoral college has been manipulated.
-- the rescinding of the two term presidency.
-- the permanence of US bases in Iraq as a base of operations, with the dropping of the MOAB on Syria or Iran, to "make a strong case" for submission to the US.


anyways, you get the idea.
Keep in mind, I'm just freeforming this, but I also think at least some of it is probably accurate, as far as strategy.
--

I hate being an accurate prophet.

[CoffeeAnnan]

8. During the Vietnam War, one of Nixon's pet ideas was to send a message

to North Vietnam that Nixon is a madman capable of doing something really insane including dropping an atomic bomb on them. That was supposed to intimidate them and make them surrender or at least come to the table for talks with their tail firmly tucked between their legs.That may also be the current strategy of the Bush Administration.Everything they are doing is meant to convey to the Arabs/Muslims that this administration will not be bound by the normal rules governing civilized societies.They will violate international treaties at will, violate the Geneva Conventions, invade countries at will with or without a fig leaf pretext, will not be bound by any sovereignty considerations etc. In effect, they believe that it is only when a Western Power behaves this way that the Arabs/Muslims will restrain their own behavior and anything they do to demonstrate that will be in their favor.

So expect more and more conspiracy theories to sprout like weeds in the garden.

[smoogatz]

9. Remember the old saying: Just because I'm paranoid

doesn't mean people aren't out to get me? JFK was the mother of all conspiracy theories, the one by which the current crop of 9/11 theorists are judged (and dismissed). The 1979 Report of the Select Committee on Assassinations of the U.S. House of Representatives, which arrived with little fanfare compared to the Warren Commission report, says that there were most likely two gunmen, and therefore a conspiracy involved in JFK's assassination. Who the co-conspirators were is still entirely unknown--somebody got away scot-free with killing a U.S. President. You can find the Select Committee report here: archives.gov/research_room/jfk/house_select_committee/committee_report.html
It makes fascinating reading.

Fact is, governments do all kinds of crazy, evil shit--and they often make little or no attempt to hide the truth. They count on the credulity and "skepticism" of the press, and the complacency of the people, to silence criticism. The mass murder of jews, gypsies, homosexuals and other "undesirables" by the Nazis is a prime example. Nobody outside of the European continent wanted to believe it, even though the evidence was there for anyone who cared to look.

[whatever4]

10. Added to that is what former admin members say

Many people coming out of that "admin", some who quit outright, say basically the same thing. That their advice wasn't listened to, that discussions were shut down, and information not shared with folks like Colin. I don't have links to all the stories, but anyone that has paid attention the last few years knows what I mean. There have been many books. The folks that know are saying basically the same thing, that this admin is rife with secrecy and closed-door meetings.

I can't figure how this government would NOT be full of conspiracy theories, even if they did nothing wrong at all. But as of now, we know they've done many things wrong. So in my mind, much of what we're looking for is for what all ELSE they've done wrong, not IF they've done anything wrong. We know they've lied, both our government and the British.

With lying at the highest levels, the very highest levels, we have no earthly IDEA of the magnitude of the crimes they may have commited. All we know is that they have the most resources, the best minds, big money and international politics at stake, along with some seriously loony folks in charge of it all. Those facts are frightening all by themselves, and together with the Iraq war and the circumstances leading to it, are damning in the extreme.

It's to the point now that I almost DON'T want to know. Hardly matters what the facts are; our side of the "dynamic duo" of governments US and British started a WAR and killed thousands (millions?) of people. Not to mention the use of depleted uranium. I don't think they value the lives of ordinary Americans any more than the lives of ordinary Iraqis any more than it costs them in votes. It's the opposite of being represented, and unless we're extremely lucky, it's the end of being represented in this nation.

I get the feeling sometimes that folks that downplay conspiracy theories get irritated when others hypothosize, but frequently I want to ask them, what in the world indicates that the government WOULDN'T go to such lengths? They have money, power, corrupt leadership and little accountability; why would they NOT use all their resources to get what they want?? And, what do they want? Our money, and control over us to ensure their continued elite status, and that is ALL.

One way to look at the the huge conspiracy is that it's just another form of cheating. With a lot of these elitist punks, cheating is what they do best, it's a learned behavior like habitual lying. Cheating and lying is a way of life. From our government, generally, we have lies of ommision, crafted with a lot of money into research into opinion polls and carefully constructed public statements. This admin just took it further, to it's ugly logical conclusion. It's not such a crazy concept, but we all reject it, because we all know it is VERY wrong, and it's hard to believe any group of elected officials would commit such acts, or even passively allow such acts to occur.

Then you consider how rare it is for individuals to stand up, ON THEIR own to do what is right, face the music and take any consequences. In all reality, that hardly ever happens. It's just human nature.

[omega minimo]

12. Democracy

would be the antithesis of:

"Then you consider how rare it is for individuals to stand up, ON THEIR own to do what is right, face the music and take any consequences. In all reality, that hardly ever happens. It's just human nature."

[whatever4]

17. Hmmm not sure what you mean exactly

That statement can be taken different ways, as a criticism or as supporting. Either way, I'm sure it's accurate.

What I feel about this admin is that some double-dealing liars, more extreme than previous political factions, managed to get in power. I think those that knew better were reluctant to stop them, and part of how I explain it to myself is not that they are ALL bad, weak or stupid, but that also, it's hard to go against the crowd. Very hard, especially when the crowd is loud, powerful and violent. I think they'd "go with the flow" no matter who was in charge, but that when a real danger came along, they went more with their instincts of self preservation than they did a concept of "right" and "wrong".

Of course, the corrupt leaders can say the same thing, when they basically say they are doing the "right" thing, the moral thing, according to the word of God. According to them. They themselves can stand up, against the rest of us it would seem, and proclaim they are brave, strong, doing the "right" thing. And so, is THEIR idea of doing what is "right" a democracy? Not really. It's a tricky argument, when I say our reps have failed us by NOT bucking a majority.

There is majority opinion of the people, and majority opinion of the Congress/Senate. When they're two different opinions, I see the reps as having gone along with the Admin, rather than their people. I think it was their job to abide by the constitution and do the will of their people, not to fall into step with a dictatorial leader.

The majority opinion, the people, should have sway, within the confines of our constitution, within the framework of maintaining individual rights. It goes without saying that just because a majority of folks might think slavery is a good idea wouldn't make it "right", no matter HOW many voted for it. Our reps would be wrong if they voted on it for us, if we (for some insane, for-example-only reason) wanted slavery in our nation; it's unconstitutional. NO matter how many people might want it.

Would it be the "right" thing had some of our representatives stood against this administration when (as with the war) many of their constituents SUPPORTED this admin? That one is harder for me to call, and in terms of what you said, the most confusing.

But in the end, I blame the representatives for lacking intestinal fortitude. In cases of very wrong legislation, I believe they could have spoken to their constituents, they could have helped shed light on their reasons for NOT agreeing. Instead, I see they circled the wagons, and only a few of them seem to be interested in stopping the flow in disinformation. Had they brought concerns to their constituents, with all side of the issues plainly laid out, I believe they could have made better decisions, while still voting on the will of their people. Rather than lying to the people and voting in a manner that seems almost independent of what the constituents want.

What's so awful is this president seems to encourage that sort of ignorance of public opinion, and even arrogance of our opinions. As if polls over what we want are somehow less meaningful than what HE wants. For me, that is one of the most damning things of all that our reps let fly; they should have NEVER given that mindset passive acceptance. They should have ALL stood against that dictatorial attitude. They didn't. The only way I can explain it to myself is to believe, in some part, they really didn't realize how much we were being subverted, and themselves were reluctant to stand up because most humans don't. Most humans go along with other humans, and generally, it's a healthy thing. The reason we don't go around killing each other, the reason we have society. It is worthy to get along with your fellow man.

But not at *any* price.

Please forgive all this rambling; it helps me form my opinion but seems pathetically amateurish. In the end, it seems our reps went along with the president in believing he doesn't, and SHOULDN'T pay any attention to public opinion polls, because he knows what is "right". I blame them for not cutting the legs out from under him on that statement, and that attidude. Had they stood uniformly against him, I don't think this corrupt admin would have become so dangerous.

As our representatives, they didn't support us, they sold us out. End of democracy because they didn't have the guts to stand up to those they knew were in the wrong. Wrong constitutinally as well as against the will and welfare of the people.

[omega minimo]

18. I mean: if you take the opposite of that quote

you got yerselves a Democracy!

I'm gonna read this later. Cheers

[iconoclastic cat]

13. Let's work on a Great Unification Conspiracy Theory!

[smoogatz]

14. Actually, a unified 9/11 theory would be useful

But getting there would be an exercise in cat-herding.

[ikri]

15. Have you come across

The Conspiracy Conspiracy?

Where a small group of influential people conjure up conspiracies to make it appear that they do indeed know what's going on and have everything under control when in fact they're hopelessly lost.

Ufo's? All the conspiracies involving governmental cover-ups are created by the government to show that the government actually has everything under control instead of the reality where the government has no clue what is going on.

Or 9/11. LIHOP/MIHOP? Neither, its the conspiracy conspiracy! The government has leaked all these ideas to show that not only did they know what was going on, they're clever enough to have done it themselves. A nice distraction from the reality where the government was so busy loading trucks with bags of cash they missed every warning they were given.

Once you start, you can get yourself really tied up if you try too hard to think about the possible conspiracy conspiracies.

[ComerPerro]

16. You forgot about black helicopters

remember during the nineties when Conservatives were convinced that the Government was watching them and coming to get them in black helicopters that they tested at night (which explains crop circles).