Can we clear up whether Plame was a covert agent

[Quixote1818]

beyond a shadow of a doubt? This seems to be the angle those on FR have decided to prop their hopes on. Also, I think Rush has filled their heads with ideas that outing Plame had no harmful impact on the CIA. Typical Rush logic! You can break the law as long as it doesn't impact anyone. Well, according to Madson it had major impacts on the CIA.

I heard O'Donnell talk about Plame on Franken and he was kind of wishy washy on her being covert. I just don't know who to believe or what to think on this. Opinions are all over the place even on the left.

Educate me please. This is the one part of Rovegate I need more info on.

[PDittie]

1. she was a NOC

"non-official cover":

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,638325,00.html

NOCs are literally the spys "out in the cold".

[Stephanie]

2. they are arguing that she was no longer undercover & was sitting at a desk

however, her entire network was blown when her name was exposed by Novak as CIA - so no matter what job she happened to be doing at CIA at that moment, keeping her CIA ID secret was necessary to protect her colleagues and the assets in her network

[Warren Stupidity]

3. She was according to the CIA

Which filed a complaint over the revelation of her identity. But what would they know? The justice department is conducting an investigation into this matter. While they have not made their findings public, if Plame was not a covert agent there was no crime and the investigation would have ended quite some time ago.

The CIA's internal records are of course secret so Plame's covert status is obviously not a matter of public record. The rightwing liars are using this as a convenience to shield their lies regarding here covert status. They are liars.

[TahitiNut]

4. The CIA conducted a 2-month investigation ...

... prior to concluding that a criminal investigation, including grand jury, was called for. It requires a "special mind" to dismiss the CIA's own recommendations on the matter.

Ms. Plame was a civilian employee of a civilian company that was (secretly) providing cover for covert agents like Plame. There was absolutely nothing public about her relationship with the CIA. This allowed her more access to foreign nationals without exposing them to danger - and without the surveillance that her role would attract.

Her intelligence specialty was WMD proliferation (what we used to call NBC). Thus, she was in a good position to know that the Bushoilini Regime was fabricating disinformation as a Fraud - a facade of lies to rationalize the invasion and occupation of Iraq. I'm pretty sure that Cheney/Libby found out who she was in their daily visits to CIA HQ to put the pressure on. She got on their shit list then, I'm betting.

[Quixote1818]

9. Interesting!!!! This is great stuff!

It sounds like Rove, Cheney and Libby were scared of her and didn't want to take any chances with her unraveling their plan to "Fix the Intelligence around the policy." This ties in so beautifully with the DSM!

If it weren't for those meddling kids (Plame and Wilson) the criminals would have gotten away with it.

It makes you wonder how much damage they could have done to Bush if her cover had not been blown.

[Stephanie]

12. right - it was the CIA that requested that Justice look into this -

and then when a response was not forthcoming, they made another request. At that point Ashcroft had to recuse himself (why? can't remember) and a substitute (Coomey?) appointed Fitzgerald. I believe both came out of DA Morgenthal's office in NY.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

5. What, you don't believe Novak?

[pk_du]

6. Once covert - always covert

unless you consider exposing every single person she ever met with in the Middle East , Africa, Europe etc. to execution is acceptable. These include American nationals ( in case Europeans , Africans or Middle-easterners doesnt do it for you)....so, whilst she may have been at a "desk" in 2003. There are 10s if not hundreds of CIA contacts "in contry" that were exposed on that day....who knows how many are already dead.

[Quixote1818]

10. Great point! Thank you! nt

[skids]

7. Right now the spin is intent...

I think we are probably past that hurdle. Right now the spin that is being applied in the media (which doesn't include the blog wingers) is that Rove was "simply trying to warn Time about a dubious source." This tells us nothing about how they feel about Rove's chances, since they would want it spun that way whether he ended up in prison (poor victim of a technicality) or not (rightie persecuted by the liberal media.)

Of course it's patently false, and we need to get it out there very loudly and repetitively that Rove was engaged in a smear campaign, plain and simple, not just a friendly heads-up to the Times. It amazes me that even when they decide to fight the administration the MSM is so gullible... I watched a lot of news coverage and some stations are still plucking this idea that it would matter whether Rove used Plame's name, which was put to rest days ago online.

[Quixote1818]

11. You are exactly right. those on FR have had their minds filled

with lies from Hannity and Rush. They are still two steps behind on all this. Thats what happens when you are a sheep!

[smartvoter]

8. Yeah. Interesting that no one held this position before it turned out to

be Rove. What a bunch of hosebags.