4000 Americans dead in the war on Iraq

[ck4829]

True: 1700 Americans have died
True: 20,000 Americans are listed as injured
True: The 'official' Death Toll DOES NOT list those who are injured and then die later
True: A Fox News statistic has said 12% of all those who are injured die later
True: If this is true, then about 4,100 Americans have died in the War on Iraq

[Racenut20]

1. Doesn't include the "private" Army the Pentagon has of mercanieries.

[still_one]

2. link?

[ck4829]

6. Here is my source

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/feb2004/woun-f04_prn.shtml
That's just for the number of the injured.

Some of this stuff is also common knowledge.

As for the Fox News statistic, I heard it one day, I wish I could provide a source for that.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

10. What link do you want? This appears to be speculation on the part...

...of the original poster.

The only thing with which I might disagree is the percentage of troops that die of their wounds later. Given the lethality of the weapons used, I'd say that the percentage who die later is closer to 20%.

[Oreo]

3. Do you have a link to the Fox info?

I'd love to see it but don't want to lose my breakfast searching for it there.

[Dhalgren]

4. This has always bothered me - this non-counting of the

subsequent death of the wounded. This figure is probably low...

[LynnTheDem]

7. Subsequent deaths ARE COUNTED.

[LynnTheDem]

5. FALSE:

"The 'official' Death Toll DOES NOT list those who are injured and then die later" is FALSE.

[ck4829]

8. Interesting.

Maybe the official death toll may be a little true.

My Aunt is big with Veteran's Affairs, I got that fact from her.

[LynnTheDem]

14. Your aunt is incorrect. That's a fact.

Here's a few of the subsequent deaths and they're all counted;

Go to; http://www.icasualties.org/oif /

At the top, click on "Fatality Details"

On the details page, at the bottom far right, set filter to "country of death" and choose "USA".

At the bottom far left, click on "set filter".

Died in the USA from Iraq;

1856 06/03/05 Mendoza, Antonio Corporal 21 U.S. Marine 5th Bat., 11th Marines, 1st Marine Div., I Mar. Exped. Force Hostile - hostile fire - explosion Brooke Army Med Center, TX Santa Ana California US
1830 05/24/05 Collins, Randy D. Sergeant 1st Class 36 U.S. Army 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment Hostile - hostile fire - mortar attack Bethesda Naval Hosp., MD Long Beach California US
1797 05/11/05 Schmidt III, John T. Lance Corporal 21 U.S. Marine 3rd Bat., 8th Marines, 2nd Marine Div., II Mar. Exped. Force Hostile - hostile fire - explosion Brooke Army Med Center, TX Brookfield Connecticut US
1790 05/10/05 Bordelon, Michael J. 1st Sergeant 37 U.S. Army 1st Bat., 24th Infantry Reg., 1st Brigade, 25th Infantry Div. Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack Brooke Army Med Center, TX Morgan City Louisiana US
1768 05/02/05 Little, Tommy S. Staff Sergeant 47 U.S. Army National Guard 2nd Battalion, 114th Field Artillery Regiment Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack Brooke Army Med Center, TX Aliceville Alabama US
1726 04/12/05 Dickens, Tyler J. Corporal 20 U.S. Army 2nd Squadron, 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment Hostile - hostile fire - RPG attack (?) Brooke Army Med Center, TX Columbus Georgia US
1677 03/03/05 Jones, Michael D. Sergeant 1st Class 43 U.S. Army National Guard 133rd Engineer Battalion Non-hostile - illness Syracuse, NY Unity Maine US
1494 01/04/05 Washington, Bennie J. Sergeant 25 U.S. Army 44th Engineer Battalion, 2nd Infantry Division Hostile - hostile fire - RPG attack Brooke Army Med Center, TX Atlanta Georgia US
1483 12/29/04 Nelson, Craig L. Specialist 21 U.S. Army National Guard 1st Battalion, 156th Armor Regiment Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack Walter Reed Medical Ctr. Bossier City Louisiana US
1393 11/27/04 Smith, Michael A. Sergeant 24 U.S. Army National Guard 1st Bat., 153rd Infantry, 39th Brig. Cmbt. Tm., 1st Cav. Div. Hostile - hostile fire - sniper Walter Reed Medical Ctr. Camden Arkansas US
1382 11/24/04 Nolte, Nicholas S. Sergeant 25 U.S. Marine 2nd Low Alt. Air Defense Bat., 2nd Mar. Aircraft Wing, IIMEF Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack Bethesda Naval Hosp., MD Falls City Nebraska US
1381 11/23/04 Edinger, Benjamin C. Sergeant 24 U.S. Marine 2nd Force Reconnaissance Co., II Marine Exped. Force Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack Bethesda Naval Hosp., MD Green Bay Wisconsin US
1370 11/19/04 Downey, Michael A. Lance Corporal 21 U.S. Marine 1st Bat., 3rd Marines, 3rd Marine Div., III Mar. Exped. Force Hostile - hostile fire - sniper Bethesda Naval Hosp., MD Phoenix Arizona US
1280 11/07/04 McVey, Otie Joseph Sergeant 1st Class 53 U.S. Army Reserve 706th Transportation Company Non-hostile - illness Beaver, WV Oak Hill West Virginia US
1246 10/22/04 Gadsden, Jonathan E. Lance Corporal 21 U.S. Marine 1st Combat Engr. Bat., 1st Marine Div., I Mar. Exped. Force Hostile - hostile fire Vet's Hospital, Tampa, FL Charleston South Carolina US
1205 10/03/04 Pettaway Jr., James L. Staff Sergeant 37 U.S. Army Reserve 223rd Transportation Company Non-hostile - vehicle accident Brooke Army Med Center, TX Baltimore Maryland US
1200 09/30/04 Nolan, Allen Specialist 38 U.S. Army Reserve 660th Transp. Co., 88th Regional Readiness Command Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack Brooke Army Med Center, TX Marietta Ohio US
1172 09/19/04 Adams, Brandon E. Sergeant 22 U.S. Army 1st Bat., 32nd Inf. Reg., 10th Mountain Div. Hostile - hostile fire - grenade Walter Reed Medical Ctr. Hollidaysburg Pennsylvania US
1061 08/09/04 Houghton, Andrew R. Captain 25 U.S. Army 1st Squadron, 4th Cavalry Regiment, 1st Infantry Div. Hostile - hostile fire - RPG attack Walter Reed Medical Ctr. Houston Texas US
1028 07/21/04 Engel, Mark E. Lance Corporal 21 U.S. Marine 2nd Lt. Armd Recon Bat., 2nd Mar. Div., II Mar. Exped. Force Hostile - hostile fire Brooke Army Med Center, TX Grand Junction Colorado US
1017 07/15/04 Mardis Jr., Paul C. Staff Sergeant 25 U.S. Army 3rd Bat., 5th Special Forces Group Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack Walter Reed Medical Ctr. Palmetto Florida US
987 07/02/04 Martin, Stephen G. Staff Sergeant 39 U.S. Army Reserve 330th Military Police Detachment Hostile - hostile fire - car bomb Walter Reed Medical Ctr. Warsaw/Rhinelander Wisconsin US
811 04/22/04 Dunham, Jason L. Corporal 22 U.S. Marine 3rd Bat., 7th Marines, 1st Marine Div., I Mar. Exped. Force Hostile - hostile fire Bethesda Naval Hosp., MD Scio (Allegany Co.) New York US
687 03/20/04 Vega, Michael W. 1st Lieutenant 41 U.S. Army National Guard 223rd Military Intelligence Co., 223rd Mil. Intel. Battalion Hostile - vehicle accident Walter Reed Medical Ctr. Lathrop California US
587 01/05/04 Frist, Luke P. Specialist 20 U.S. Army Reserve 209th Quartermaster Company Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack Brooke Army Med Center, TX Brookston Indiana US
534 12/02/03 Young, Ryan C. Sergeant 21 U.S. Army A Co., 1st Bat., 16th Infantry Reg., 1st Infantry Div. Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack Walter Reed Medical Ctr. Corona California US
511 11/20/03 Tyrrell, Scott Matthew Private 21 U.S. Army C Co., 299th Engineer Bat., 4th Infantry Div. Non-hostile - munitions accident Brooke Army Med Center, TX Sterling Illinois US
459 11/08/03 Jimenez, Linda C. Sergeant 39 U.S. Army 2nd Sqd. Combat Spt. Aviation, 2nd Armored Cav. Reg. Non-hostile - accidental fall Walter Reed Medical Ctr. Brooklyn New York US
378 10/01/03 Ramos, Tamarra J. Specialist 24 U.S. Army 3rd Armor Med. Co., Medical Spt. Squadron, 3rd Armd Cav. Non-hostile - unspecified injury Walter Reed Medical Ctr. Quakertown Pennsylvania US
356 09/16/03 Pinkston, Foster Sergeant 47 U.S. Army National Guard 878th Engineer Battalion Non-hostile - illness Augusta, GA Warrenton Georgia US
347 09/07/03 Thompson, Jarrett B. Specialist 27 U.S. Army Reserve 946th Transportation Company Non-hostile - vehicle accident Walter Reed Medical Ctr. Dover Delaware US
254 07/04/03 Coons, James Curtis Master Sergeant 35 U.S. Army 385th Signal Company, 54th Signal Battalion Non-hostile - suicide Walter Reed Medical Ctr. Conroe Texas US
231 06/18/03 Latham, William T. Staff Sergeant 29 U.S. Army Troop E, 2nd Squad., 3rd Armored Cav. Hostile - hostile fire Walter Reed Medical Ctr. Kingman Arizona US

Died in Germany from Iraq;

1816 05/22/05 Seesan, Aaron N. 1st Lieutenant 25 U.S. Army 73rd Engineer Company, 1st Brigade, 25th Infantry Div. Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack Landstuhl Reg. Med. Ctr. Massillon Ohio US
1725 04/09/05 LaWare, Casey M. Private 1st Class 19 U.S. Army 2nd Squadron, 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment Non-hostile - building fire Landstuhl Reg. Med. Ctr. Redding California US
1678 03/04/05 Garceau, Seth K. Sergeant 27 U.S. Army National Guard 224th Engineer Battalion Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack Landstuhl Reg. Med. Ctr. Oelwein Iowa US
1434 12/09/04 Renehan, Kyle J. Corporal 21 U.S. Marine Marine Air Ctrl. Sq-2, Mar. Air Ctrl. Gp-28, 2nd Mar. Air Wing Hostile - hostile fire - mortar attack Kaiserslautern Oxford Pennsylvania US
1410 12/01/04 Pena, Javier Obleas-Prado Gunnery Sergeant 36 U.S. Marine 2nd Recon Battalion, 2nd Marine Div., II Mar. Exped. Force Hostile - hostile fire Landstuhl Reg. Med. Ctr. Falls Church Virginia US
1378 11/20/04 Heredia, Joseph J. Corporal 22 U.S. Marine 3rd Bat., 5th Marines, 1st Marine Div., I Mar. Exped. Force Hostile - hostile fire Landstuhl Reg. Med. Ctr. Santa Maria California US
1376 11/20/04 Welke, Joseph T. Lance Corporal 20 U.S. Marine 3rd Bat., 1st Marines, 1st Marine Div., I Mar. Exped. Force Hostile - hostile fire Landstuhl Reg. Med. Ctr. Rapid City South Dakota US
1231 10/13/04 Baker, Ronald W. Specialist 34 U.S. Army National Guard 39th Support Battalion Hostile - hostile fire - car bomb Landstuhl Reg. Med. Ctr. Cabot Arkansas US
1194 09/28/04 Prewitt, Tyler D. Sergeant 22 U.S. Army 2nd Battalion, 2nd Infantry Regiment, 1st Infantry Div. Hostile - hostile fire - RPG attack Landstuhl Reg. Med. Ctr. Phoenix Arizona US
1053 08/05/04 McCune, Donald R. Specialist 20 U.S. Army National Guard 1st Bat., 161st Infantry Reg., 81st Brigade Combat Team Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack Landstuhl Reg. Med. Ctr. Ypsilanti Michigan US
933 06/03/04 Bolding, Todd J. Lance Corporal 23 U.S. Marine 2nd Bat., 4th Marines, 1st Marine Div., I Mar. Exped. Force Hostile - hostile fire Landstuhl Reg. Med. Ctr. Manvel Texas US
901 05/18/04 Chaney, William D. Staff Sergeant 59 U.S. Army National Guard B Company, 1st Battalion, 106th Aviation Regiment Non-hostile - illness Landstuhl Reg. Med. Ctr. Schaumburg Illinois US
876 05/08/04 Holmes, James J. Specialist 28 U.S. Army National Guard C Company, 141st Engineer Combat Battalion Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack Landstuhl Reg. Med. Ctr. East Grand Forks Minnesota US
809 04/20/04 Fox, Bradley C. 1st Sergeant 34 U.S. Army 1st Bat., 36th Inf. Reg., 1st Armored Div. Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack Landstuhl Reg. Med. Ctr. Adrian Michigan US
682 03/19/04 Matthews, Clint Richard "Bones" Specialist 31 U.S. Army 1st Bat., 18th Infantry Reg., 1st Infantry Division Non-hostile - vehicle accident Landstuhl Reg. Med. Ctr. Bedford Pennsylvania US
679 03/18/04 Sutphin, Ernest Harold Private 1st Class 21 U.S. Army 2nd Bat., 11th Field Artillery, 25th Infantry Division Non-hostile - vehicle accident Landstuhl Reg. Med. Ctr. Parkersburg West Virginia US
447 11/06/03 Fisher, Paul F. Sergeant 39 U.S. Army National Guard Det. 1, Co. F,106th Aviation Battalion Hostile - helicopter crash (missile attack) Homburg Hospital Cedar Rapids Iowa US
320 08/17/03 Ivory, Craig S. Specialist 26 U.S. Army 501st Forward Spt. Co., 173rd Airborne Non-hostile - illness - heat related Homberg Univ. Hospital Port Matilda Pennsylvania US
319 08/14/03 Kirchhoff, David M. Private 1st Class 31 U.S. Army National Guard 2133rd Transportation Company Non-hostile - illness - heatstroke Landstuhl Reg. Med. Ctr. Anamosa Iowa US
303 08/06/03 Colunga, Zeferino E. Specialist 20 U.S. Army 4th Squadron, 2nd Armored Cavalry Reg. Non-hostile - illness - acute leukemia Homburg Hospital Bellville Texas US
266 07/12/03 Neusche, Joshua M. Specialist 20 U.S. Army Reserve 203rd Engineer Battalion Non-hostile - illness - pneumonia? Homburg Hospital Montreal Missouri US
260 07/08/03 McKinley, Robert L. Private 23 U.S. Army H & H Company, 1-101st Air Assault Non-hostile - illness - heatstroke Homburg Hospital Kokomo Indiana US
214 06/01/03 Lambert, Jonathan W. Sergeant 28 U.S. Marine Headquarters Battalion, 1st Marine Div. Non-hostile - vehicle accident Landstuhl Reg. Med. Ctr. Newsite Missouri US
168 04/24/03 Jenkins, Troy David Sergeant 25 U.S. Army B Co., 3rd Battalion, 187th Infantry Reg. Hostile - hostile fire - bomb Landstuhl Reg. Med. Ctr. Ridgecrest California US

Died in Kuwait:

1803 05/14/05 Gillican III, Charles C. Sergeant 35 U.S. Army National Guard 1st Battalion, 118th Field Artillery Reg., 48th Infantry Brig. Non-hostile - vehicle accident Camp Arifjan Brunswick Georgia US
1739 04/18/05 Thornton, Steven W. Major 46 U.S. Army Communications-Electronics Command Non-hostile - illness - sudden collapse Camp Arifjan Eugene Oregon US
1693 03/15/05 Marracino, Salvatore Domenico Sergeant 28 Italian Army 185th Parachute Regiment Non-hostile - weapon discharge (accid.) Kuwait City (hospital) Apulia Italy IT
1536 01/23/05 Rangel, Jose C. Staff Sergeant 43 U.S. Army National Guard 1106th Aviation Classification Repair Activity Depot Non-hostile - illness - sudden collapse Camp Arifjan Fresno California US
1534 01/21/05 Lusk II, Joe Fenton Captain 25 U.S. Army 3rd Battalion, 3rd Aviation Regiment Non-hostile - unspecified injury Camp Buehring Reedley California US
1456 12/19/04 Farmer, Donald B. Staff Sergeant 33 U.S. Army 180th Transportation Battalion, 13th COSCOM Non-hostile - vehicle accident Ash Shuaybah Zion Illinois US
1455 12/19/04 Meza, Barry K. Sergeant 23 U.S. Army 180th Transportation Battalion, 13th COSCOM Non-hostile - vehicle accident Ash Shuaybah League City Texas US
1249 10/24/04 Boles, Dennis J. Sergeant 46 U.S. Army National Guard 171st Aviation Battalion Non-hostile - illness - sudden collapse Camp Arifjan Homosassa Florida US
697 03/27/04 Toney, Timothy Master Sergeant 37 U.S. Marine Headquarters Bat., 1st Marine Div., I Mar. Exped. Force Non-hostile - illness - sudden collapse Camp Wolverine Manhattan New York US
674 03/16/04 Thigpen Sr., Thomas R. Master Sergeant 52 U.S. Army National Guard 151st Signal Battalion Non-hostile - unspecified cause Camp Virginia Augusta Georgia US
672 03/14/04 Normandy, William J. Sergeant 42 U.S. Army National Guard 1st Battalion, 86th Field Artillery Regiment Non-hostile - illness - heart attack Camp Virginia East Barre Vermont US
658 03/08/04 Milczark, Matthew G. Private 1st Class 18 U.S. Marine 2nd Bat., 4th Marines, 1st Marine Div., I Mar. Exped. Force Non-hostile - weapon discharge Camp Victory Kettle River Minnesota US
656 03/05/04 Gray, Michael J. Petty Officer 2nd Class 32 U.S. Navy Navy Detachment Non-hostile - vehicle accident Kuwait Naval Base (near) Richmond Virginia US
535 12/02/03 Boone, Clarence E. Chief Warrant Officer 50 U.S. Army Hqtrs. & Hqtrs. Co., 4th Infantry Division Non-hostile - accident (?) Kuwait City Fort Worth Texas US
486 11/15/03 Petrucci, Pietro Caporale 22 Italian Army Regular Army Hostile - hostile fire - car bomb Al Sabah Hospital Casavatore, Napoli Italy IT
465 11/12/03 Bailey, Nathan J. Staff Sergeant 46 U.S. Army National Guard 1175th Transportation Company Non-hostile - weapon discharge Camp Arifjan Nashville Tennessee US
369 09/25/03 Rooney, Robert E. Sergeant 1st Class 43 U.S. Army National Guard 379th Engineer Company Non-hostile - vehicle accident Shuabai Port Nashua New Hampshire US
342 09/01/03 Sarno, Cameron B. Staff Sergeant 43 U.S. Army Reserve 257th Transportation Company Non-hostile - vehicle accident Kuwait City Waipahu Hawaii US
339 08/27/03 Sherman, Anthony L. Lieutenant Colonel 43 U.S. Army Reserve 304th Civil Affairs Brigade Non-hostile - illness Camp Arifjan Pottstown Pennsylvania US
300 08/05/03 Loyd, David L. Staff Sergeant 44 U.S. Army National Guard 1175th Transportation Co., Tenn. ANG Non-hostile - illness - heart attack? Not reported Jackson Tennessee US
262 07/09/03 Tetrault, Jason Lance Corporal 20 U.S. Marine 7th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Div. Non-hostile - vehicle accident Not reported Moreno Valley California US
259 07/08/03 Boling, Craig A. Sergeant 1st Class 38 U.S. Army National Guard Co. C, 1-152nd Infantry, IN Nat. Guard Non-hostile - illness - heart attack? Camp Wolf Elkhart Indiana US
246 06/26/03 Hubbell, Corey A. Specialist 20 U.S. Army Company B, 46th Engineer Battalion Non-hostile - illness - breathing difficulties Camden Yards Urbana Illinois US
229 06/17/03 Tosto, Michael L. Sergeant 24 U.S. Army 1st Bat., 35th Armrd Reg., 1st Arm. Div. Non-hostile - illness - pneumonia? Camp Wolf Apex North Carolina US
192 05/19/03 Shepherd, David Corporal 34 Royal Air Force Royal Air Force Police Non-hostile - natural causes Not reported Not reported Not reported UK
183 05/10/03 Smith, Matthew R. Lance Corporal 20 U.S. Marine Comm. Co., 4th Force Svc. Spt. Group Non-hostile - vehicle accident Not reported Anderson Indiana US
179 05/09/03 Bruns, Cedric E. Lance Corporal 22 U.S. Marine 6th Engr. Spt. Bat., 4th Force Spt. Gp. Non-hostile - vehicle accident Tac Assy Area Coyote Vancouver Washington US
175 05/04/03 Deibler, Jason L. Private 20 U.S. Army 1st Battalion, 6th Infantry Regiment Non-hostile - weapon discharge Camp New Jersey Coeburn Virginia US
95 04/01/03 Maglione III, Joseph Basil Lance Corporal 22 U.S. Marine 6th Eng'g Spt., 4th Force Serv. Spt. Gp. Non-hostile - weapon discharge Camp Coyote Lansdale Pennsylvania US
85 03/30/03 Brierley, Shaun Andrew Lance Corporal 28 British Army 212 Signal Squad., 1 (UK) Armoured Div. Non-hostile - vehicle accident Not reported W. Yorkshire England UK
66 03/25/03 Stone, Gregory Lewis Major 40 U.S. Air National Guard 124th Air Spt. Oper. Squadron - Idaho Non-hostile - homicide Camp Pennsylvania Boise Idaho US
27 03/23/03 Seifert, Christopher Scott Captain 27 U.S. Army 1st Brigade, 101st Airborne Div. Non-hostile - homicide Camp Pennsylvania Easton Pennsylvania US
13 03/21/03 Ward, Jason Major 34 Royal Navy 3 Commando Brigade, Royal Marines Hostile - helicopter crash Umm Qasr (near) Plymouth England UK
12 03/21/03 Stratford, Mark Warrant Off. 2nd Class 39 Royal Navy 3 Commando Brigade, Royal Marines Hostile - helicopter crash Umm Qasr (near) Plymouth England UK
11 03/21/03 Seymour, Ian Oper. Mech. 2nd Class 28 British Army 148 Commando Battery, Royal Artillery Hostile - helicopter crash Umm Qasr (near) Poole England UK
10 03/21/03 Hehir, Les Sergeant 34 British Army 29 Commando Regiment, Royal Artillery Hostile - helicopter crash Umm Qasr (near) Poole England UK
9 03/21/03 Hedenskog, Sholto Royal Navy Marine 26 Royal Navy 3 Commando Brigade, Royal Marines Hostile - helicopter crash Umm Qasr (near) Pretoria South Africa UK
8 03/21/03 Guy, Philip Stuart Captain 29 Royal Navy 3 Commando Brigade, Royal Marines Hostile - helicopter crash Umm Qasr (near) N. Yorkshire England UK
7 03/21/03 Evans, Llywelyn Karl Lance Bombardier 24 British Army 29 Commando Regiment, Royal Artillery Hostile - helicopter crash Umm Qasr (near) Llandudno Wales UK
6 03/21/03 Cecil, John Colour Sergeant 36 Royal Navy 3 Commando Brigade, Royal Marines Hostile - helicopter crash Umm Qasr (near) Plymouth England UK
5 03/21/03 Waters-Bey, Kendall Damon Staff Sergeant 29 U.S. Marine MAW&TS-1, 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing Hostile - helicopter crash Umm Qasr (near) Baltimore Maryland US
4 03/21/03 Kennedy, Brian Matthew Corporal 25 U.S. Marine MAW&TS-1, 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing Hostile - helicopter crash Umm Qasr (near) Houston Texas US
3 03/21/03 Beaupre, Ryan Anthony Captain 30 U.S. Marine MAW&TS-1, 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing Hostile - helicopter crash Umm Qasr (near) Bloomington Illinois US
2 03/21/03 Aubin, Jay Thomas Major 36 U.S. Marine MAW&TS-1, 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing Hostile - helicopter crash Umm Qasr (near) Waterville Maine US

Died in Qatar:

1839 05/28/05 Smart, Albert E. Lieutenant Colonel 41 U.S. Army Reserve 321st Civil Affairs Brigade Non-hostile - illness Doha San Antonio Texas US
1134 09/06/04 Boria, John J. Captain 29 U.S. Air Force 911th Air Refueling Squadron Non-hostile - vehicle accident Doha Broken Arrow Oklahoma US
640 02/10/04 Mariano, Jude C. Master Sergeant 39 U.S. Air Force 615th Air Mobility Operations Squadron Non-hostile - vehicle accident Doha Vallejo California US
346 09/04/03 Brown, Bruce E. Technical Sergeant 32 U.S. Air Force 78th Logistics Readiness Squadron Non-hostile - vehicle accident Al Udeid (near) Coatopa Alabama US
280 07/20/03 Scott, David A. Master Sergeant 51 U.S. Air Force 445th Communications Flight Non-hostile - unspecified cause Doha Union Ohio US
129 04/05/03 Smith, Edward 1st Sergeant 38 U.S. Marine 2nd Bat., 5th Marine Reg., 1st Mar. Div. Hostile - hostile fire Doha Chicago Illinois US

[still_one]

20. that's what I use for my sources also

even though I believe there are deaths that are NOT counted, i.e., people coming back, and die months later from complications, I think we need to be able to substantiate it in order for it to have credibility

It is bad enough the we have over 1750 Americans dead, over 12500 wounded, no accurate count of civillians, which have been estimated at over 100000 from crediable sources including the medical journal Lancet

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

9. When one conspiracy theory a day isn't enough... n/t

[Media_Lies_Daily]

11. Are you telling us that you believe what the NeoCons are telling us?

[Frederik]

13. The neo-cons are not involved

in reporting the military's dead.

[whatever4]

16. NO, neocons have no power over the military

Because the military isn't controlled by civilian leadership?

Learn something new every day...

Not always something 'correct', just something new. That's most definitely new, "neo-cons are not involved", what a hoot. Oh. Wiping tears from eyes. Sure. Not involved. hahahahahha

[Frederik]

17. This is discussed here about four times a week

LynnTheDem has the expertise, as she works for icasualties. I believe she has posted in this thread, so I refer you to her.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

21. Are you telling me you disbelieve one of DU's own...

...who monitors these things? Come off it.

[beam me up scottie]

22. Don't you know ?

You only have two choices; believe the nuts or the government. :eyes:

For example: Chem trails must exist because we know the government has lied to us before about other things.

See how that works ?

[whatever4]

15. No, it's all an accident. And they never lie about death counts...

Never happen? Only in your world, apparently. Or was Vietnam a myth, or a conspiracy theory? Is it not in living memory, is it not current history? Are not many of the SAME people from that time part of the elder leadership of THIS admin?? Is that a theory? Or a fact?

Hey, here's a clue. The deaths are real. The war is real. The military shoving off their injuries is real, as was illustrated by MY last post. Implying this discussion about coverups is "more conspiracy theory nonsense" is UNREAL. As in, not reality based. It is also completly lacking in constructive contribution.

Who's the conspiracy theorist?? YOU are.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[whatever4]

12. Also forgotten

Or at least, seldom discussed, is how serious the injuries are, as compared to past wars. In this war, far more serious injuries are successfully treated, but, the survivors wind up being far worse off than in the past. It IS NOT that we do not want our soldiers to survive, far from it, but the point is, those living through the experience are FAR worse off than they were in the past. It's not a death. It's just the next best thing.

So I'd like o offer up that, in reality, we could look at the real damage to our soldiers and realize that multiples of them were "dead on the battlefield" in terms of the damage done to their bodies. Think of it in those terms, because for many, many of these poor kids, that's really how it is. And many WILL NOT live full lives because of their war experience. Almost half of those returning from battle have been shown to suffer some form of brain damage from exposure to all the bombing blasts, and that is just one type of injury, one which currently receives little attention. Have any wonder how many "other" problems aren't receiving much attention?

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/071105X.shtml
"
The Battle after the Battle By Les Blumenthal The News Tribune
Sunday 10 July 2005

Soldiers say military pushes them to discharge before medical needs are met.

The day before his 22nd birthday, a bomb hanging from a tree along a road near Fallujah exploded above Rory Dunn's Humvee.

Dunn's forehead was crushed from ear to ear, leaving his brain exposed.
"

4000 died? In real terms, forgetting how we're able to pick up and patch together those with previously fatal injuries, it could easily be seen as closer to 10,000, in my armature opinion. It could be closer to 10,000 dead, if you slightly more than double the number of "real" deaths.

Guys...we've circulated over a million troops through the middle east in the past 4 years. And THAT only counts the military, not the hired soldiers and other civilian workers.

[BeyondThePale]

19. Debunk, debunk, debunk...

It is amazing that this notion keeps rearing its head in different forms. Again, check out:
http://www.icasualties.org/oif/

[SidDithers]

23. And the proof would be...

can you provide the name of one American serviceman or woman, who has died, whose name does not appear at www.icasualties.org ?

I think LynnTheDem reply above should be made a sticky post, so that she doesn't have to reply to this rumor every week.

Sid

[LynnTheDem]

24. Sid...

I LOVE YOU!

:D

:hug:

[halobeam]

25. I have a question.... do you know what causes people to

believe that injured soldiers who die later aren't counted as a fatality (KIA)? I heard a long time ago, in past wars, the injured who died later weren't considered KIA. Many old friends of mine thought the same thing. I wonder if this is one of those myth/fact type things that a surprising number of people have the answer wrong. Seems this way to me, anyway.

[LynnTheDem]

26. Myth. Just like the "Dems are weak on national security" when in fact

the very opposite is true.

Both myths are so easily debunked, but still the myth lives on.

*sigh*