I think it is time for an Armageddon:

[E_Zapata]

I am watching PBS' Wide Angle on Human Trafficking, and I think the human race doesn't even deserve to go on.

Every where you look - there is exploitation, oppression, overt destruction of the human spirit and misery and poverty and the list goes on . . . . . .

Either Armageddon or the world needs to be turned over to women. Male domination has proven that man has indisputably proven the existence of evil incarnate.

Go ahead and flame me for making this a gender issue, but just two aspects of human trafficking look to the male domination as the root of this evil: trafficking of women for prostitution is created, maintained and supported by MEN; trafficking of men and women for agricultural labor would not be possible without the greed of the male-owned agricultural interests.

The global corporate world is male dominated in ownership. We discuss the problems of global corporation on this board everyday.

Will the women of the world ever group together and say no to Patriarchy and demand that our species become as decent as we like to believe we are, but in no way are?

Just watching PBS News Hour and now Wide Angle with the filter of "who owns business and what are they creating" is enough for me to say that our species is so undeserving of the gifts that this great earth provides. We have blown it. The only solution I can see is an across the board shift in power to another group of "owners" who might be able to create a civilization based on justice, compassion, equality, and preservation of the human race that also preserves the earth. I am thinking a matriarchy might work. Maybe. But the existing system of 'civilization' falls so short, that I almost think it is all a loss and Armageddon would be the only just end.

I am disgusted with humans today. Sorry.

[LittleApple81]

1. I am glad to see I am not the only one who feels that way.

I think women are much more atuned to what humanity is supposed to be.

[AndyTiedye]

4. Then can we hold the Armegeddon and just let Carol Mosley-Braun be Prez?

[E_Zapata]

9. That's a thought.

Why not get a hillary/carolyn ticket and run with it?

Now, who shall we have take over the UK? Princess Diana would have been ideal. Too late for that. :-(

[E_Zapata]

8. Whether women are more atuned or not - they should give it a whirl

We need to try something so totally different if we ever hope to achieve peace and justice and decency. Women are far more attuned to it. It's worth a try. The current power structure isn't working and male domination is the common denominator......so let's fire them.

[Birthmark]

2. Oh, cheer up.

It was worse for almost all of human history. Even with *, things are still far, far better for most Americans than it was 100 years ago. Things progress in fits and starts -- and always too slowly. But they do progress.

[E_Zapata]

7. I am not particularly worried about "Americans" - it's the WHOLE RACE

on the whole earth.

to hell with us - less than 5% of the world's population and we use like 95% of the resources. I think our "comfort" should take a backseat to the rest of the world for a change.

[Minstrel Boy]

3. I hear you

Been thinking the same lately, digging into the pedophilia rings stories. What kind of creatures are we?


Either Armageddon or the world needs to be turned over to women

We're ruled by some who would prefer the former to the latter.

[E_Zapata]

10. I have researched those Ped. rings -- beasts we are, indeed.

I am going to get smashed for this, but is the root of all evil something as simple as THE PENIS? There must be an ingenious way to reign that in some.

In the 1970s there was this trippy soap opera show that came on late night after Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman. Don't recall the name of it. But the power roles of women and men were switched. Weird thing is: the writers made it so the women acted just as men act. Here I thought back then that the show was revolutionary. But it was a total farce and very insulting toward women. If women ruled the world -- I believe things would be different.

[Solomon]

5. Can we at least start by getting rid of Bush? Let's not let him distract

us from the immediate goals.

By the way. Civilization started with women in charge. The reason. Early on motherhood was easily determined because babies come from women.

On the other hand, people at first didn't know what caused pregnancy so there was no concept of fatherhood. (Also why we still today have the universal story of the "virgin birth".) Also means the first gods were female. You cannot have a father god if you don't know what a father is.

Later when it was learned how babies are made, i.e. that one could determine who the father is, civilization switched to a patriarchal system, spurred along by the demonization of women.

I'll stop here because its a long story, but unlike my father's generation which firmly believes that a woman is just a "spare rib", i.e. Genesis, I've always felt that woman should be totally equal.
Obviously my wife agrees with me.

B-)

[E_Zapata]

11. I never made that connection before.

Yes, I knew we started out with matriarchies, but I did not connect it with the mystery of where babies came from. Verrryyy interesting.

Your wife is a smart cookie.

Unfortunately, I am not suggesting equality any longer. I am suggesting a takeover and males should be thrown to the side. I am no longer interested in standing to the SIDE of a particular group who has proven that they will NEVER, unless forced, make decisions based purely on decency.

But, yes, we must start with ousting Bush. By all means. :-)

[hang a left]

14. Getting rid of bus*, although a good idea, will not

even scratch the surface of the evil that dominates in this world. There are thousands of evil evil men just like him, and they run the planet. It is embarrassing to be a human being sometimes.

Yes women would run the world with compassion and fairness. Most of us anyway.

Being a spiritual person, had a conversation with my mom today. I was sharing with her my despair at the state of our nation and the state of the world. She asked me "don't you believe God is in charge." I told her that no, I didn't believe that anymore. I added that I believe that there are evil people in charge. She rebutted (always trying to make her daughter feel better) that he has
worked in your life, don't you think he might save this world. I said that I didn't think that it was possible with evil wills run amok. She responded then maybe it is God's will that we destroy ourselves. That made me think, maybe she is right, maybe human kind needs to start all over. Hopefully the lessons of this age will be well learned, and never ever repeated.

on edit changed involved to in charge

[E_Zapata]

15. I think along the same lines - all of this is part of the grand plan

It's clear that the US is following in the footsteps of all the great empires ...big fast rise, big fast fall which seems to be a microcosm for the entire human kind's condition.

I too pray that lessons will be learned.

[sleipnir]

6. Careful what you wish for

You might just get one.

Check this out.

Usually Fundies latch onto this thing, but a good friend of mine who happens to be a respectable geologist says this could be the real thing NOW. He says other respectable scientists are starting to become "strongly concerned..."


www.earthmountainview.com/yellowstone/yellowstone.htm

[E_Zapata]

12. I had seen something on this recently.

Kind of scary.

"If it blows, there will be no life within 600 miles except those people who have prepared a place underneath the ground."

Wonder where Cheney's bunker is?

[Dogmudgeon]

19. Thanks!

I posted about this recently. I've also been posting on climate change and the energy shortages that are in our future.

Climate change concerns started around 1958 during the International Geophysical Year, when the long-term increase in CO2 was first discovered. I first heard about the possibility of abrupt climate change around 1978, when the brutal winter that year led the media to trot out the climatologists for TV.

The energy shortages predicted for the early part of this century (21st, not 20th) were well-supported as early as 1968; M. King Hubbert's work on petroleum resource usage was published in 1957, and accurately predicted peak USA oil production for 1969-1972.

I am not particularly afraid of an Earth-crossing object whacking into us any time soon; we have a real problem with a bunch of deluded megalomaniacs running things at a time when several crises are speeding in our direction.

Climate change:
www.whoi.edu/institutes/occi/currenttopics/ct_abruptclimate.htm

Peak Oil and Energy Shortages:
www.DieOff.com

Is The Forecasting Of The Eruption Of The Yellowstone Supervolcano Possible? (Robert B. Trombley, Ph.D.)
www.swvrc.org/yellow.doc

--bkl

[arcos]

13. I agree...

I think we as humans are on a decisive moment. We either go up, or we disappear. We are very near the bottom, if we aren't already there. Something must happen, and it must be RIGHT NOW... we must take a leap forward or we are going to disappear soon, and perhaps the latter is the best and easiest way for everyone and everything.

I agree that if more women were in charge things would probably be better. I don't agree with pushing men aside since I'm one and I wouldn't like it, but I fully understand your position and the reasons that made you reach that conclusion.

FYI, there's a webpage called Voluntary Human Extinction (and I just found out they have meetup!)... http://www.vhemt.org/

Their motto is "May we live long and die out"

An excerpt:

"As VHEMT Volunteers know, the hopeful alternative to the extinction of millions of species of plants and animals is the voluntary extinction of one species: Homo sapiens... us.

Each time another one of us decides to not add another one of us to the burgeoning billions already squatting on this ravaged planet, another ray of hope shines through the gloom."

[E_Zapata]

16. Oh me oh my......

voluntary extinction? That's a concept I hadn't considered. It's a thought. LOL I don't think I can get to the meetup this month. :-)

Yes, I was harsh to suggest putting men to the side. But for so long, women have resorted to asking, begging, pleading, demanding to just JOIN the man's world. At this point, women need to abandon all concepts of civilization and create something from scratch.

[arcos]

17. I know what you say about women...

since just about 3 years ago I found out the kind of asshole that my father was to my mom. I convinced her that a divorce was necessary, and everyone has been much happier since it happened nearly 2 years ago. He never beat her or anything, but he was a major asshole. And that's the way this society has been working, and it's time to stop that, or start from scratch... I sure hope you will give a space to us (gay) men. :hi:

[E_Zapata]

21. Oh, gay men?

I totally forgot to mention that. All gay men shall stand in total equality in terms of position and power with the matriarchy! By all means! Sorry for the oversight.

In fact, I envision a social reconstruction project headed by gay men to re-socialize hetero males into the new society. That's a thought. What class of people could be better suited for that project? Men who love men.

Fantastic news about your mom getting out of that marriage. I am sure that your help and blessing for her to leave the marriage made it so much easier for her (moms worry about the impact of divorce on her kids, so if the kids are pushing for it, wonderful!). Is her life just a wonderful smashing and exciting success now?

[arcos]

26. It is!!

The change has been astonishing. She is now happy and successful.

My father is not a monster, but he was a drag on all of us. I am better off now too. My sister (she's 19, I'm 22) doesn't know much about my parents' past, so I think it has been much easier for me, although she is much better now too and she thinks it was a wonderful decision.

[mddemo]

18. human extintion

Tell you what you all can go first if you really believe that mankind needs to die, then i might start to take you seriously.

[arcos]

27. read!

this movement doesn't advocate suicide or death for that matter. It advocates extinction in a voluntary, non-violent way. How? Having no more children because we are sort of a plague on the planet.

I am undecided on this, I may add. Lately I've been considering it because of the state we are currently in as humankind... would the planet be better off without us? Would WE be better off not existing at all?

[mddemo]

20. mens fault

yeah like every man is evil, we are all rapists etc. well this is one man who wont stand by and be emasculated, you can try but it aint happening.

[E_Zapata]

22. For the men who are NOT rapists, I say this:

Why aren't you outraged and in the streets fighting for the security and rights of your moms, sisters, aunts, daughters?

And because you are not, you are all complicit in the commissions of such crimes. Sorry.....keep your penis and your denial and your abject approval of the way things are. In this fantasy version of the world that should be, you may not make it into the new mainstream order of things. Bad attitude for sure.

[mddemo]

23. thanks

I will keep my penis thanks, ill live in the real world, you continue to live in your fantasy world, we will both be happy. And why do i have to take to the streets fighting for womens rights, My wife is pretty happy with her rights, shes got a better education than me, better job. and as to my not making it into your mainstream order, kinda reminds me of a certain gentlemen that my forefathers fought back across Europe, i now understand the term Feminazis, thanks

[Dogmudgeon]

24. Nazis, you say?

The worst thing that a feminist ever did to me was to try to slap me down in public. I was permitted, by law, to argue back, I did, and we eventually ended up on good terms.

In Nazi Germany, they killed people. As in "dead". As in "forever".

Now go cool off before you embarass yourself.

--bkl

[mddemo]

25. nazisss

read post 22, if thats not what the nazis preached, she states i will not make it in the new order, seems kinda nazi like to me.

[FDRrocks]

28. I don't think women are neccesarily the answer...

They possess the same capacity as males. Marg. Thatcher was not that great.

We need honest people in government, above all. Beyond that we need to get politicians in all the major nations who are devoted to disarmament and the betterment of civilization.

I share your fear. I got so distressed just a bit ago I almost became a religious man. But there is hope, there will be for a while now. The ozone layer wont last forever, but if it gets to that point we will figured something out. The human race can perservere!

[arcos]

29. water...

you are forgetting about water. Of course the ozone layer is important, but lack of water could be our biggest problem.

According to this article http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/11/08/wdry08.xml, we will start to run out of water in 50 years. If I'm alive by then, I will be 72 and won't live much longer... it won't be us, but babies who are born today may have terrible days ahead.

"THE world will begin to run out of fresh water by 2050 because of the expected population growth to 9.3 billion, the UN Population Fund said yesterday.

<snip>


The fund's report, State of the World's Population 2001, said the Earth's resources were being used at a greater intensity than at any time in history. Since 1960, world population had doubled.

Last year 508 million people lived in 31 water-stressed countries but, by 2025, three billion will be in 48 such countries. By 2050, 4.2 billion will be in countries unable to meet the UN daily requirement of 50 litres of water a person for drinking, washing and cooking."

[Castilleja]

35. I think you are right, domination by one gender...

is not an answer. I certainly don't think having only women in charge would be a cure-all, and I am one. Just watch the group dynamics of women, and you will see that they can be just as bad. We need each gender to moderate the extreme tendencies of the other. But as it stands right now, I do think that the male dominated world could stand to be adjusted considerably.

[punpirate]

30. Umm, before you begin thinking that destruction or matriarchy are...

... the only options, consider this: perhaps the problem is the all-to-human desire of one person to dominate others, given the power to do so. In that sense, perhaps striving for power for the purposes of wielding it is the worst inclination in human beings.

For every woman you can find in your daily life who is strong, intelligent, caring, but who is not interested in seeking public office, I can find one in politics in current times or recent history who is or was unnaturally ambitious or incompetent or uncaring or stupid or weak and corrupt or vainglorious or vicious and/or anti-egalitarian. To wit: Gale Norton, Condoleezza Rice, Christine Whitman, Margaret Thatcher, Elaine Chao, Benazir Bhutto, Megawati Sukarnoputri, Kay Bailey Hutchinson, Indira Gandhi, Katherine Harris, Heather Wilson.

For every Barbara Jordan, or Eleanor Holmes Norton or Marcy Kaptur, there's a Helen Chenoweth or a Mary Bono.

As for the concept of utter destruction, the biblical Armageddon, isn't that sort of playing into the hands of the religious right wing? After all, they seem to be the ones most in favor of this very odd tendency toward self-destruction as redemption....

I believe it was that old totalitarian himself, Henry Kissinger, who said, "power is the ultimate aphrodisiac." That's an equal-opportunity seduction.

Cheers.

[xchrom]

31. i have a few names for you to remember

margaret thatcher, lynne cheney, anne coulter, concerned women for america, phyliss schafly, nancy reagan, etc.
it's not just the men -- heavy sigh.

[JNelson6563]

32. News flash:

Every where you look - there is exploitation, oppression, overt destruction of the human spirit and misery and poverty and the list goes on . . . . . .

As a devoted but amatuer historian I can tell you there is absolutely nothing new in your statement/the situation. This is how it always has been and always will be. Nature of the beast and all that.

Julie the Realist

[arcos]

33. I agree...

but does that mean that we are a plague to our planet? Would the planet be better off without us?

[proud patriot]

34. Aren't men going extinct ..Wasn't there an article about that ?

I saw the pbs show last night , with my jaw agape the whole
show ...My husband , was in another room , but stopped what
he was doing to watch the show .

[Snow]

36. My friend, why don't you take the weekend, go buy or

borrow a copy of Sherry Tepper's "Gateway to Women's Country". You can feel better imagining what Tepper imagined, or something......and you'll notice she doesn't paint all guys - or all women - broad-brush. (mild harrummphhing)