Are we focusing on Karl Rove too much?

[nyhuskyfan]

I know it would be a nice little piece of poetic justice to see the Republican's famous attack dog go down, but at the same time, if this turns into a long, drawn-out affair and he's the fall guy for the administration, then maybe Bush and Cheney leave office without the black eyes that they deserve. And I'm sure there are plenty of little Roves-in-training out there that can step in and do some of the same bullshit that Karl is known for.

I've seen plenty of Dems call on Bush to fire Rove -- and the implication there is that Rove alone is the guilty party and Bush should do the honorable thing and get rid of him and make it all better. But shouldn't we be reframing this? What about holding those at the top responsible? It shouldn't be "Karl Rove leaked" -- it should be the "Bush White House leaked...". Instead of telling Bush to fire Rove, shouldn't we be implying that this is an example of the corruption of the whole administration, not just one guy?

Karl Rove is not his own independent entity. He's Bush's closest advisor, he was hired by Bush (not appointed by the people), and Bush should be held responsible for his actions. It isn't like the assistant to the secretary of the interior did something wrong -- this is as "inner circle" as it gets.

And nobody is discussing Downing Street any more.

[emulatorloo]

1. DSM and Plame Outing are all part of the cloth

and Karl Rove is the thread that will unravel it all.

Karl outed Plame to protect the big lie of WMD, etc. . .he did it for Bush and Cheney and their glorious war plan.

[Marnieworld]

2. Discussing Rove/Plame IS discussing DSM

Wilson revealed exactly how and when they were "fixing the intelligence to support the policy." It is a documented example of what the memo stated. They lied us into war. They planned it. Then they did it. Then they went after someone who tried to uncover it publicly. Not different stories at all.

[Tyler Durden]

3. Is it POSSIBLE to focus on Rove TOO MUCH??

Nope.

Seem to recall that another president came within an angry mule kick of being Convicted by the Senate for a cigar and a stain on a blue dress...

FUCK NO. ALL ROVE, ALL THE TIME. When Rove goes down, he'll take W AND Cheney with him.

[BIG Sean]

4. Yes we are....and here is why!

Hi,

The American people, (i.e. the common voter) doesn't understand or care about the day to day scandals in Washington. I tried to explain this Rove story to my Mom, as well as the DSM and the whole Tom DeLay mess, I can tell that she cared, but after a few minutes...well, I can see that I was losing her.

We have to focus on simple issues that American people can understand and relate to quickly. We have to reframe and explain issues that we might not consider important, but they do. We can not spend to much time and energy on things, that although extremely important in our eyes, are near meaningless to the common folk.

BIG Sean

[thebigidea]

5. have you considered that maybe your mother isn't "The American People"?

Like Dubya, I don't believe in focus groups. Especially when they only consist of someone over the internet's mother.

Then again, i'm told that my Uncle Chicolini was consulted every step of the way during Watergate,

[BIG Sean]

8. LOL.....

If Democrats want to win elections, people like my Mom are exactly who they have to explain things to.

[thebigidea]

13. not really an answer, but then - I didn't expect one.

"my mom doesn't understand" isn't much of an argument, really. Either in politics, or say - the appreciation of Fellini films.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GreenPartyVoter]

7. Welcome to DU

[MissB]

9. Welcome to DU! Enjoy your stay.

It's really easy to explain the Rove story. Next time, tell your mother he is a liar and is out to destroy middle class America. End of story.

Just keep it simple.

[longship]

6. No. Karl Rove is the big one.

This ties the whole bunch of 'em into a nice neat bundle.

Watergate, a bungled, third rate burglary led to the resignation of the President by exposing an entire culture of illegal doings within the WH.

Like the DNC break-in, the exposing of Plame is the linchpin to open the WH to closer scrutiny by independant arms of the Justice Dept, the special prosecutors and grand juries. This will inevitably lead to Congressional hearings. The Reps cannot stonewall that forever. If indictments are handed down, the hearings will come. The public outcry for hearings will make it manditory.

Once hearings are held, like in Watergate, someone will talk. The whole WH mess may be exposed. And the * regime will be toast.

We've crossed the line and there's no going back.

[nyhuskyfan]

10. That's the best case scenario...

I hope it's closest to the truth. There's also the worst-case -- Rove is exonerated, or cops a plea for a slap on the wrist, and nobody else gets dragged into it.

I can see both sides of the argument, though -- I guess you have to start with something tangible and hope everything else collapses like a house of cards. If W leaves office in 2008 and Karl Rove is the only one with a slight smear by his name, though, then something's wrong. This administration deserves to be the standard by which all future corruption is judged.

[longship]

12. Sorry, I don't agree.

If indictment(s) are handed down, public opinion *will* turn against them. The public may be sheeple at heart, but they don't like being lied to by their public servants. We're already seeing a sea change.

I now have faith that the * house of cards is going to tumble. Remember, these guys are clever, but they are also fallible. They've made a lot of mistakes. It's inconceivable that an administration which has bungled Iraq so badly has their shit together in this.

Hell, news people are already tagging Faux News as "surrogates" of the administration. The last three days' press briefings weren't chopped liver. That's our press corps coming alive again. They may be temporarily distracted by other matters once in a while, but they *all* know that this is a big story which is not going to go away.

My portrayal was not a best case scenerio. It's precisely how things went down in Watergate. It may take some more time for the SP and GJ to do their jobs, but it is now clear that they will not be stonewalled by the WH. Savor the moment.

[wli]

11. storm of scandals

So there's a storm of scandals going on.

What's not getting talked about? Downing Street, AIPAC espionage stuff, 9/11 investigation, coingate, London bombing oddities, Gladio, WTO/IMF, Iraq/Afghan war crimes, CIA "renditions", heavy media propaganda, unconstitutional laws getting passed right and left, people getting fired and/or arrested for not being "sufficiently pro-war", overtly racist anti-Arab/anti-Muslim statements by public officials, talk about "nation ending", rigged elections, the wave of heavy-handed demonstration smashings, Guantanamo-style detention camps popping up all over for use against US civilians, the entire court system getting flushed down the toilet by PATRIOT/etc., ominous warnings of massive terrorist attacks and martial law from Tommy Franks later repeated by others still within the administration, and more.