Plame is a fucking hero....

[slutticus]

From a former classmate of Valerie Plame.
http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/7/13/04720/9340

" <Valerie> became a non-official cover officer. ...That meant she agreed to operate overseas without the protection of a diplomatic passport. If caught in that status she would have been executed."



How DARE these traitorous COWARDS even imply that Rove is a hero for outing Plame. Here was a woman who was willing to give her life for her country, and this fucking COWARD Rove used her as a political tool with complete disregard for national security.

Here is a woman who actually put her life on the line...and this motherfucking COWARD says she's "Fair Game"?

What the fuck is wrong with this picture? I'm too flabbergasted to be angry. I'm in fucking shock right now.

There is not enough voltage in this world to electro-shock me back in to coherence....

Someone please help me understand

[redqueen]

1. The criminals are running the courts & prisons.

That's the best metaphor I can think of... did you see the WSJ editorial?

[slutticus]

48. Yes, I saw it.

The more I delve deeper into the bowels of this affair...the sicker to my stomach I become.

This is probably my first GD thread...It took a lot for me to post in here... :D

How have you been?

[redqueen]

52. Heh... I was wondering...

I hadn't seen you around this place much before.

I'm okay, you?

[slutticus]

56. I'm doing well. Working my ass off.

I only log on a couple of times a day now. I just had to vent a little. I feel much better now. :)

[Minstrel Boy]

2. Not by my understanding.

She was a spook.

By all means, eviscerate Rove for her outing. But I'm not forgetting for a moment that the CIA has been a blight on the globe for half a century.

[bpilgrim]

7. she was tracking underground WMDs

and she is not guilty for ALL the CIA's sins which are long and brutal but i respect the ones fighting TERRORISM at home and abroad.

exIntel folks for sanity have been giving the neoCONs hell ;->

peace

[Minstrel Boy]

35. you're right

I posted in a querulous pique. ;)

And I've even said before, the CIA is not a monolith; it's a labyrinth. Some corners are darker, and some lighter.

[movonne]

3. Every Repug that stick up for Rove, should be called a traitor....

It is outrageous that these Repugs are out defending this traitor...

[SteppingRazor]

4. I agree Plame is a brave woman...

But being a NOC doesn't necessarily make it so. Manuel Noriega was a NOC. So, possibly, were Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden, at one point or another.
All that means is you're getting paid by the CIA, but you're not officially with the CIA.

[slutticus]

50. Yes. The CIA stuff doesn't matter.

My frustration comes from the fact that here is a woman that is willing to do a job that few have the courage to do...and this is the way these fucking cowards respect her....and these are the dipshits that are supposedly "strong on National Security"???

And they want to praise Rove for it?


WTF?

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ozymandius]

6. There are CIA agents ... and then there are CIA agents.

Ms Plame was an operative who had absolutely no connection to the CIA sponsored coup against Allende. Ms. Plame's responsibility was the tracking and countermining of interests' desire to obtain various weapons of mass destruction.

If you wish to damn the CIA agents for what they did in Chile - go ahead. I'm all for it. Henry Kissinger is a good place to start. That was his baby.

[MissB]

8. Wow. Welcome to DU. Enjoy your stay.

Yeah, we all hate the CIA around here. :eyes:

[The_Casual_Observer]

9. Remeber? I didn't remeber a god damn thing

I'll bet you hate the CIA.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bouncy Ball]

14. Yeah, so that makes it ok to out them

and risk their deaths and the deaths of those around them?

Ooooookay, then.

:eyes:

[MissB]

15. The granite cookie didn't take long.

:bounce:

[Bouncy Ball]

18. Nope, after I posted that I thought

"watch he's already gone" and he was!

(But I'm sure still reading....)

[ProfessorGAC]

33. Yeah, That Was Pretty Darned Fast!

Exact same thing happened to me. Read the message, said "Probably a goner." Checked. Yup!
The Professor

[King Coal]

30. Remeber? Don't you mean rember? As in:

Rember? You rember. Rember?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. Hero my ass! She's CIA for Chrissakes.

Just google Phoenix Program to see what the "heroic" CIA does. You might also check out "Allende", "Guatamala", "Patrice Lumumba", "Mossadegh", "Cuba", and many more examples of murder, assasination, mass killings, and subversion.

They're about as "heroic" as the SS and Gestapo.

[mondo joe]

13. You might as well hate all Americans because of the acts of the Bush govt

Hasthe CIA done awful things? Yes.

Does that mean everything te CIA does is awful? No. Does it mean every agent is awful? No.

You want a CIA and a US govt that is more decent? I do.

You want to live in 2005 without an intelligence agency? I don't.

[Bouncy Ball]

16. You're answering your own questions, rummy-style!

:rofl:

Just kidding!!!

:hi:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. I'm sure there were SS guys that loved puppies and kittens.

And, were upright citizens who didn't like their bosses.

The CIA like the School for the Americas should be shut down and the thugs that work for them brought to justice in the ICC.

I'm supposed to respect and sympathize with people who chose to work for an organization well known for it's crimes against humanity?

I think not.

[mondo joe]

21. Again, you may prefer to live in 2005 without an intelligence agency.

I do not.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. Good for you. How patriotic.

If you are capable of overlooking a little assasination here, some mass murder there, the arming and direction of death squads, as necessary to our "national security" (aka protecting corporate interests) you're welcome to the CIA and it's happy little group of bungling thugs.

[mondo joe]

24. My only question for you is how you propose the US manage

international affairs - including monitoring threats to the US - without a CIA.

Thank you.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

29. By being honest. A novel idea, I know, but it might work.

Instead of trying to control the world we might attempt joining the world community and put the spooks and their fellow murderers to work doing something useful.

As for their "intelligence gathering" efforts, their track record is dismal and their failures monumental.

[mondo joe]

31. So you'd prefer no intelligence agency function at all? Okay.

You may not know it but all those other countries in the world community also have intel agencies.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

37. Oh, I see! It's their fault that the CIA murders people.

Funny how most of the world's intelligence agencies seem to get by without knocking off people that the current bosses deem "enemies". You seem to be able to separate the activities of the CIA from your perception of what an intelligence agency is "supposed" to do.

The "The other guys do it, too" is a pretty thin defense. Try it the next time you rob a bank.

[mondo joe]

39. Again, I'm asking what you propose we do without an intel agency.

Do you think if we disband the CIA today there will be no terrorists or enemeies looking to harm the US?

I agree we should not seek to control the world but should partner with the world community. But even those countries that already do that - as you suggest - still have intel agencies.

So I'm asking what you propose we do without an intel agency.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

42. How about we disband the CIA and form an intel agency.

That, if necessary, gathers intelligence. Period. One that's budget is open for the public to see. One that's required to present ALL of it's operational doings and methods to congress for review. One whose members are held personally responsible for any crimes committed, where they were committed, or in front of an international tribunal. That would elimate the "I was only following orders", "I didn't know what was really going on" defense used by the agents and their chair bound bosses.

[mondo joe]

53. So you want another agency with a different name charged with the

same official responsibilities?

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

And don't you think a number of CIA operatives would be first in line for jobs in this NEW agency you speak of? Or do you suggest abandoning any knowledge or expertise we currently hold?

Why not just leave it be the CIA and reform whatever practices need to be ended?

[Uncle Joe]

49. Well said n/t

[slutticus]

46. Nice generalization.

I was talking about one woman.

One woman who was willing to risk her life for her job.

I would not risk my life for my job. Never.

I respect this woman.
People like her make the chickenhawks really stand out as the fucking cowards they are.

[dogday]

17. Look Carefully-This Is How The Government Treats It's

loyal employees who risk their lives for this country. Both Wilson and Plame had many years of experience and their reputations and resumes' are sterling.


See how the government eats one of it's own....

[Catherine Vincent]

20. Now you guys see how republicans treat women!

And nominated for an ex-Texan (Sluticus).

[Pacifist Patriot]

22. I'm really surprised by some of these posts.

I once considered a job as an analyst in the CIA. I thought a career in intelligence would be one way in which I could serve my country. It never occurred to me that I'd be held personally responsible for every crappy decision ever made by the organization.

I wonder if the same people glad Plame was exposed because they dislike the CIA are expressing the same satisfaction over military casualities because they dislike the war in Iraq.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

25. The casualties in Iraq are due to CIA types.

[Pacifist Patriot]

27. The casualties in Iraq are because

the fucking neocons need the casualties to accomplish their greedy ends.

[mondo joe]

28. Incorrect. The casualties in Iraq are due to policy decisions.

Not the CIA.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

32. Based on CIA "intelligence".

I know, I know, "they were pressured by the administration". "They allowed themselves to be swayed by political operatives". "The administration misused the intelligence", etc, etc.

What all that boils down to is, "We were just following orders." A familiar phrase post 1945.

[mondo joe]

34. Actually, based on cherry picked data and a good deal of denial.

We already know Bushco ignored intel warnings and latched onto what he wanted.

The CIA doesn't make policy - it supplies data.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

38. OK. So where were the CIA "heroes" that blew the whistle?

That's like the Eichmann defense. "I was only coordinating train schedules".

[mondo joe]

40. I recall reading about them in the news - about how Cheney did

things no other VP had ever done before, and how vague the case against Iraq was.

[bpilgrim]

55. Ambassador Wilson to START, hello...

and there were many others that spoke up, who are noted here and in the M$M as well.

fyi

peace

[slutticus]

57. I'm sure they are there lurking in the darkness waiting for the chance..

...to expose this poor excuse for an administration.

I think this may finally be their chance. The administration tried to blame the CIA for "faulty" intelligence while at the same time endangering an entire operation.

I'm sure their revenge will be sweet.

[Garbo 2004]

43. Actually the CIA was the one contradicting Bushco's propaganda & agenda

Tenet played lapdog to Bush but the analysts (like Ray McGovern, etc) were against the war because they knew the justifications were bogus. Which is why Bushco ignored the CIA warnings about "suspect" intel, set up the Office of Special Plans in the Pentagon to "fix" the intelligence to support their agenda and then scapegoated the CIA, claiming it was the source of the "bad intel" when the jig was up.

The Plame outing was to discredit Wilson, the CIA (and their views that Iraq was no significant threat re: WMD and the "intel" Bush was pushing was BS), and to cover up the fact that Bushco lied us into war.

As Minstrel Boy said, the CIA is not a monolithic entity. But Bushco appointed Goss to clean house, remove any independent analysis and make sure their agenda is served. That's NOT a good thing.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

44. Which is a damned good reason to shut CIA down.

Among many other better reasons. Or, at least, take it out of the executive's hands and put it into the hands of congress.

[Garbo 2004]

45. The CIA was (still is?) accountable to Congress if recollection serves

(to Congressional oversight committees). Also Congress confirms the CIA director. (Don't know what specifically may have changed with the intel reshuffle and Intel Czar, but the CIA as I recall previously was accountable to Congress.)

But of course, who's got the majority votes in Congress?

[mondo joe]

54. You are letting facts could your potential for misdirected hatred!

[slutticus]

51. Do you guys think that maybe the CIA has it in for the * administration..

...for making them look like they got the intelligence "wrong"?

I would certainly be pissed if all along I was screaming "this is bullshit!" and then at the end get blamed for providing "faulty intelligence".

[mondo joe]

26. I especially like how some hate the CIA but have no proposal on how to

function without an intelligence agency.

[rateyes]

36. She was lwilling to lay her life on the line...

unlike the Cuckoo-in-chief--the VEEP--and most of all the others in the Bush cabinet administration. And, they almost get her killed, and probably did get a lot of associates killed. Pricks.

[slutticus]

47. Exactly.

I would never risk my life for my job.

I just don't have that in me. Compared to the chickenhawk cowards this woman really stands out for me.

[in_cog_ni_to]

41. We should send her flowers from Working Assets!

We should let her and Joe know that we are here supporting her.

A DU activist cause?

on edit:http://www.flowersforchange.com/