"They've thrown the worst fear that can ever be hurled"

[A-Schwarzenegger]

I think it's important to keep in mind that the whole
Bush/Rove effort to "get" Wilson was because he threw a
monkey wrench into the machinery of the biggest lie of
their demonic war-making scheme. Namely, the "mushroom cloud."
Saddam has/wants/is going to get the BOMB, and therefore we
MUST go to war to stop him. Wilson says, No, not true, it's a lie.
They said, We'll show him for taking away our mushroom cloud.

[getmeouttahere]

1. What can I say, when you're right, your right

sometimes it really is "just that simple" as Ross Perot used to say

[A-Schwarzenegger]

2. I miss that guy.

I can hear him saying it: "Just that simple!"

[Bunny]

4. He'd probably have some kind of pie chart to illustrate his point, too!

[foo_bar]

5. do you hear the giant sucking sound?

[A-Schwarzenegger]

6. Doesnt a nuke bomb make a giant sucking sound?

[foo_bar]

7. if an eardrum falls in a forest

As a general guide, city areas are completely destroyed (with massive loss of life) by overpressures of 5 psi, with heavy damage extending out at least to the 3 psi contour. The dynamic pressure is much less than the overpressure at blast intensities relevant for urban damage, although at 5 psi the wind speed is still 162 mph - close to the peak wind speeds of the most intense hurricanes.

Humans are actually quite resistant to the direct effect of overpressure. Pressures of over 40 psi are required before lethal effects are noted. This pressure resistance makes it possible for unprotected submarine crews to escape from emergency escape locks at depths as great as one hundred feet (the record for successful escape is actually an astonishing 600 feet, representing a pressure of 300 psi). Loss of eardrums can occur, but this is not a life threatening injury.

http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Nwfaq/Nfaq5.html

[Beam Me Up]

22. Yeah. Like the sound of your atomic bonds coming unglued -- or the sound

of your flesh cooking from the inside out -- depends on how close you are to ground Zero.

I've seen the light: Every time you die, you are reborn. So if you want to see heaven, you have to find your way outa hell.

[Bouncy Ball]

10. Pie chart!

I thought the same thing!

"Well, here, we have the neocon's desire to lie and get us into a war, see? And HERE, we have Joe saying 'Hell, there ain't any bomb!'"

"So over here, see, you've got the neocons gettin' mighty fired up over that and then THIS slice shows how they just up and decided to mess up his wife."

[A-Schwarzenegger]

19. I wish there was an alternate universe where Ross could be Pres.

Course I'd trade Bush for him in a split second.
Imagine what Perot would do if he had a Rove & Rove outed an agent.

[Bouncy Ball]

27. He'd skull fuck him.

Sorry for the vulgarity.

But he would.

I actually voted for Perot in 92! Hey, I helped Clinton get in! My entire family voted for Perot, even my in laws. They were smitten with him and they are hard core repukes. It freaked me out a bit, all of us voting for the same guy.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

29. He'd buy 30 minutes on all the networks & do it on live TV!

[enough]

3. Very telling point.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

8. Wilson messed with the cornerstone of the rationale for war.

At the heart of "WMD" is the BOMB, the biggest WMD of all.

[foo_bar]

9. you're right, of course

Q: So are you saying the President's broader reference to Africa, which included other countries that were named in the NIE, were those also incorrect?

FLEISCHER: Well, I think the President's statement in the State of the Union was much broader than the Niger question.

Q: Is the President's statement correct?

FLEISCHER: I'm referring specifically to the Niger piece when I say that.

Q: Do you hold that the President -- when you look at the totality of the sentence that the President uttered that day on the subject, are you confident that he was correct?

FLEISCHER: Yes, I see nothing that goes broader that would indicate that there was no basis to the President's broader statement. But specifically on the yellow cake, the yellow cake for Niger, we've acknowledged that that information did turn out to be a forgery.

Q: The President's statement was accurate?

FLEISCHER: We see nothing that would dissuade us from the President's broader statement.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0307/S00099.htm

[A-Schwarzenegger]

16. Thanks. And what was Rice's line about the mushroom cloud?

[foo_bar]

17. "The problem here is that there will always be some uncertainty...

...about how quickly he can acquire nuclear weapons. But we don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud."


But thanks for asking!

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/01/10/wbr.smoking.gun/

P.S. How's Oscar doing?

[A-Schwarzenegger]

18. Amazing that they can get away with a war (so far)

and go down (one hopes) on a simple phone call or two
going after some guy through his wife.

P.S. At the moment Oscar is licking his chops.
He brought home something in a big takeout bag
and ate the entire bag and all before I even saw
what it was.

[calimary]

13. We have a winner! I think this is spot-on.

This whole sordid mess goes straight back to the DSM - and the "fixing" of the intel. This was clearly one of the biggest priorities they had to "fix" properly.

It just fits their pattern. Vicious vindictiveness. Settling scores. Petty retaliations. And this, mind you, from the folks who boasted that "the adults are back in charge" when they first "took" office.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

14. Hi, Mary!

It's hard to figure out what theyll do next because
if theyll lie as they did to start a war, theyll do
anything. Anything. Imagine the scenarios theyre poring
through to bury the Rove crime, especially if it leads to
Bush, as it surely does. This is a dangerous moment.

[Gay Green]

20. God!!! They said "the adults were back in charge"

and then they started acting so...







Middle School.

[in_cog_ni_to]

11. I think it was a twofer.

Get Wilson for his Op Ed and take Valerie away from investigating the WMD. She had to know there were none in Iraq. They couldn't afford for that info to get out.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

15. I guess we dont know how many covert agents

were doing what she was doing on WMDs, or what her findings
or reports were, but you are certainly right.

[Inland]

12. Telling the truth about the rush to war could NOT be tolerated. nt

[Beam Me Up]

21. There is an even more sinister possibility.

In Worse Than Watergate, John Dean calls the exposing of Plame the "Dirtiest of Dirty Tricks." He writes that "revealing her identity damaged the national security and her career, and resulted in the loss of a valuable government asset." He called this action "literally life-threatening." (pgs 170-171)

What could have possibly been so important to VP Cheney that he oversaw the violating of the 1982 IIPA, and risked a White House scandal? The answer clearly can not be found in goals #1 or #2.

The answer, which supports goal #3, appears in Klein's article: "Furthermore, there is intense anger over the White House's revealing the identity of Plame, who may have been active in a sting operation involving the trafficking of WMD components. ..... 'Only a very high-ranking official could have had access to the knowledge that Plame was on the payroll' of the CIA, an intelligence source told me."

And that very high-ranking official may have known through his parallel national security office about the activities that Plame was involved with at that time. The answer to goal #3 likely is to be found in the checklist of things Valerie Plame did to mitigate the damage done by Novak's article immediately after she read it.

This is from a paper constructed here on DU almost exactly ONE YEAR AGO: THE WATERMAN PAPER

[A-Schwarzenegger]

23. Wow. Thanks. By the way,

where the hell IS Cheney? He's made himself scarce
as a rocking chair in a cat factory.

[Beam Me Up]

24. NO ONE KNOWS

how this is all gona work out, you know? Most of us asume that tomorrow will be pretty much like today, but that might not in fact be the case. We're living in a new kind of world. Things can change profoundly and quite quickly. Look at how quickly the edifice of a Super Power like the USSR was suddenly and irrevocably changed. Of course history went marching right along and we now find ourselves at this most peculiar place.

We really are in a war, you know. It just isn't the one they tell you about on TV.

I'm sure DICK has his reasons for remaining scarce.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

25. Yeah. It's amazing that the ones in power

continue to believe that they will remain in power,
just like the last ones in power believed they would
remain in power, and that they will continue to
get away with everything, and that they really know
what theyre doing, even when theyre standing in the
piles of plaster from the roof & walls caving in. The
emperor, lest we forget, is the first one to believe
that he's wearing new clothes and not standing there
with his ass in the breeze, or sitting there with his
ass in the trap.

[Beam Me Up]

26. Yes. Well, that is why they're going after Cheney first. Smart move, IMO.

And if they have to go through Rove to do it, more power to them.

However, there is a limit -- unless there's going to be a full-fledged counter coup. Given the media's complicity in the right wing coup that began in earnest five years ago, I find it hard to imagine. But, then again, new information technologies have to be taken into the equation. No one has ever seen anything quite like this ever before in the history of civilization. We're in completely uncharted territory.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

28. The media is like the big dumb monstrous pet of those in power.

It has one instinct. It can see when the scales tip away
from those in power. And when it sees that, it is suddenly
no longer their pet. It starts gnawing on the limbs of the
ones that used to be in power and are losing that power like
handfuls of melting butter. In fact, the power as it runs down the
arms and legs of the ones in power just stokes the appetite of the
GREAT MEDIA IT that used to be their pet. It is a beautiful thing to
watch in this instance. It takes a while, but when it starts to dine
on such demonic entities, it's sweet to witness.

[Beam Me Up]

30. No. It has always stopped short of revealing the truth. Always.

It may take down some and help shuffle the players -- but it has never, in my experience, unveiled the monster behind the curtain.

They have names just like we do. They are flesh and blood. But we seldom find out a whole lot about them. That doesn't work both ways.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

31. Yeah it's not after the truth, but

it is a ravenious beast and it will eat whatever
is put on its plate. And like you say, anything can
happen now. It's a different media world even from the
Clinton BJ era. "Don't mean it wont happen just because
it hasnt happened yet."

[Beam Me Up]

34. Closing quote is true enough.

Can't argue with that.

Wow. There's so much optimism bubbling around DU tonight it is almost contagious!

:rofl:

Could it be? Could it be that those lying ass Nazi shits are finally going to get what should be coming to them? Well, they said. We're either with them or we're against them.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

35. Remember, even the repukes have to run for re-election again.

Not Bush, but everybody else.
It's gonna be hard to run on a pro-Rove, pro-IraqWar ticket.
Anymore than a pro-Watergate ticket.
The repukes turning against
Nixon was the tipping point. Goldwater I think was the
last straw, Mister Conservative.
But yeah I can't kick that hope monkey.
More shall be revealed.
That quote's from Jackson Browne. It's actually:
"Don't think it won't happen just because it hasn't happened yet"

[Beam Me Up]

36. Indeed, more shall be revealed.

All we can do is what we've been doing only more of it and louder.

[kentuck]

32. Bingo !

Baiscally, that's it! But they went ahead and continued to lie about it after Wilson made his argument. Bush even mentioned it in the NYTimes! They never slowed down for long. Their Big Lie was going ninety miles an hour and there was no stopping it. We were going to get that sonuvabitch Saddam...

[Must_B_Free]

33. Wilson took a Shitakke on their Mushroom could.