Is the ultimate fantasy of the fundies to force women to bear rape babies?

[barbaraann]

Should the baby resulting from a rape be aborted?

"Rape is a horrible and traumatic event in the life of any woman who has suffered its indignity. It is the forcible act of sexual intercourse against the will of the woman. Should she become pregnant, not only must she bear the memory of the rape, but she also carries the child of the rapist. The question then is whether or not a woman should abort the baby that is the result of a rape? This is a very difficult question to answer. After all, it is a highly emotional issue. Of course, I am a man and cannot possibly relate nor understand what it would mean to be in the place of a woman whose body has been invaded in such a way. I can only speak from what I know and what I believe about the sanctity of life that is derived from God's word.

In my opinion, a baby that is a product of rape should not be killed. It is not the fault of the baby that it has been brought into the world. Why should the life of the baby be sacrificed because of the indignity suffered against the woman? Yes, I know the rape is horrible and that it is wrong. I know that the woman has the right of self protection and emotional security. But I also know that love is greater than all these things and few things on earth have greater love than a mother for her child.

I know that some will strongly object and say that my attitude is callous and insensitive to the needs of the woman. Indeed, a woman impregnated through rape has suffered greatly and bearing the child would certainly be a reminder of the horrible incident. The "father" would not support the child and the mother would be left to raise the child on her own. Without a doubt, the woman gets the raw end of the deal.
...
Jesus showed me His great love by sacrificing His life for me, a sinner. I deserve to be judged harshly by Him, yet He is gracious and kind. So too, I must be gracious and kind in response. Therefore, I would keep any child given to me and raise him or her as my own, with all my love and dedication....by God's grace."

http://www.carm.org/abortion/rape.htm

I think their fantasy is to live like the wealthy men in the Handmaid's Tale or plantation owners in the Old South--not just wealthy but able to forcibly make women bear their children.

Was Bush feeding this fantasy when we talked about "rape rooms?"

[trotsky]

1. I'm sure the thought makes them excited.

I think I'm gonna be sick.

[barbaraann]

3. I keep thinking of all the ugly, old Republicans in D.C. and

I feel sick, too.

Henry Hyde is pro-life and the implications of that bother me to no end.

[Lars39]

15. You mean these?

[barbaraann]

24. You just terrorized me!

I don't know what they're signing but I only see old, ugly, white men.

[Lars39]

25. I believe it was the "partial-birth" bill.

[Railroader]

2. Of course,

It's the only way the average freeper could ever manage to reproduce.

[Bouncy Ball]

4. What I have a problem with is his idea that he can decide this

for someone else.

Unless he is the woman who was raped and impregnated, he really can't make that decision. I find it insulting that he thinks he can.

I'm a woman and I would NEVER presume to tell another woman she should or should not keep the pregnancy that resulted from rape. That's HER decision, as it should be. Can you imagine forcing a woman to have a baby that was conceived through RAPE???

And not every woman WANTS to be a mother or is ready to be a mother, etc. So because she was raped, suddenly her maternal feelings spring to life and everything is daisies and sunshine?

[enough]

5. Yes. And

it's based on the idea that nothing bad can ever happen to them -- they have God on their side -- THEY will never be raped. Anything bad that happens is a punishment from God. I always wonder how these people react when something truly terrible happens to them.

The other day I heard a fundie say that a person she knew had received terrible life-threatening burns in a house-fire because that person "didn't know God."

It's the same mentality that has no interest in the rights of the accused. If you have been accused, you must be guilty of something. Otherwise you would not have been accused. If something bad happens to you, you deserve it.

[Bouncy Ball]

10. You haven't seen anything funny until you've seen two fundies

who both are claiming they have information directly from God, but their information is contradictory. So one tries to tell the other HER information was from a demon and the other one tries to say the same thing to the first.

[nickinSTL]

13. This reminds me of a recent news story

There was, a few months ago, a mother whose young (around 6-8, I think) daughter was kidnapped, raped and dumped in a landfill.

When the girl was found alive, the mother was on the news yelling about how god never abandons her, or something.

Which had me thinking, "If god was so great to you, why was your little girl kidnapped, raped and left for dead?"

[enough]

48. And then there are the post-hurricane stories

of the guy sitting on his un-harmed porch looking at all his neighbor's houses that have been flattened to the ground and saying something like "I guess God was watching over me." Obviously he thinks God was punishing the neighbors.

[BlakeB]

6. ...The radical right is CRAZY.

[jedr]

7. That was that woman choice !...get it..... "choice" ;

Her decision not the supreme courts

[Modem Butterfly]

8. With all do (DU) respect to my progressive brothers...

...this article reads like it was written by a man. Only someone who is relatively certain they will never be violated in such a way and completely certain they will never have to bear a child could write something like this.

[barbaraann]

14. Check this out:

Rape and Incest are Tragic, But Abortion Doesn't Heal the Pain
by Frederica Matthewes-Green

http://web.mit.edu/Pro-Life/www/articles/vnv.html

[Modem Butterfly]

16. AAARRRRGGGGHHHHHHHHH

:banghead:

[alittlelark]

33. It was written by a man...

< Of course, while sitting here and comfort of my office it is easy for me to urge women to keep the babies who are the product of rape. After all, I don't have to carry the child, suffer the emotional trauma, or bear the financial burden. This is true. The closest I can come to experiencing their situation is to try and imagine what I would do if my wife were raped and impregnated. Years ago I decided that if it happened, I would want to raise the child as my own. I dearly love children and could never simply want to get rid of it. My wife feels the same way.>

[megatherium]

9. If you believe that abortion is murder,

this is a logical conclusion. What I find inexplicable is the position (often expressed by politicians) of opposing abortion except in cases of rape or incest. If abortion is murder, it wouldn't be morally acceptable in those cases. If abortion is not murder, what then is the argument for depriving women of reproductive choice?

[raccoon]

21. I think people who think like that, their real agenda is they

think a woman who's had consensual sex shouldn't be able to have an abortion; she should "pay for her sins" by being forced to carry the baby to term.

[K-W]

46. Because abortion can be wrong without being murder.

If you think a potential life deserves some protection, but not as much protection as an existing life.

[Darwins Finch]

11. Pregnancy isn't "free"

Carrying a child to term involves a great deal of strain on the mother's body, with many metabolic and chemical costs. Then there is the pain and possible complications of the delivery, which can be dangerous to the woman as well. Not to mention other problems which can occur, such as incompatibility reactions in the womb. And then who cares for the child?

I'm a male and I find the idea of forcing a female to carry ANY child to term against her will to be abhorrent. In my mind this is in many ways a greater violation than the rape itself.

I'm not suprised an ignorant male like the author feels so comfortable with his stance, since he is personally NEVER in danger of having this happen to him. I wonder how devoted he would be to his position should his own wife become pregnant by rape, however.

[trotsky]

22. Read to the end.

He addresses this very possibility, and says that both he and his wife feel the same way: they would raise the child as their own.

Well at least he SAYS his wife feels the same way.

:scared:

[Darwins Finch]

27. Sorry

What was posted nauseated me enough, so I didn't read the whole screed at the link.

And may she be fortunate enough never to have her conviction put to the test. I know thousands of other girls won't be so lucky.

[lukasahero]

29. Obviously she's never been raped...

And thinks only women who are "irresponsible" get raped, hence, she can speak of that which she feels she is in no danger of...

[Proud2BAmurkin]

12. No, ultimate fantasy is to make BRAIN DEAD women bear rape babies

.

[ck4829]

17. Babies have no Self Consciousness

It is both my Spiritual and Psychological belief that babies are not sentient until they are at least 6 months - 1 year old.

[iconoclastic cat]

18. That, and honor killings.

[Bouncy Ball]

19. I still say if you are against abortion, DON'T HAVE ONE.

Period.

[arwalden]

20. Careful... It Almost Looks Like YOU Wrote That.

I agree with the author when she says a BABY which is the product of a rape should not be killed. Why would anyone want to kill a living-breathing BABY?

But immediately after conception, it's NOT a "baby"... it's a fetus.

[Bouncy Ball]

23. Actually, immediately after conception, it's a blastocyst,

which is an eight-celled ball.

Then it's a zygote (I may be skipping stages here), THEN an embryo (until about 12 weeks), THEN after that it's a fetus.

If a woman has a legal abortion (up to 12 weeks), it's not a fetus even then, it's an embryo.

[megatherium]

26. An interesting criterion for the beginning of life is "brain birth",

to parallel the criterion for cessation of life of "brain death". This sounds logical to me. The central nervous system begins activity when the embryo becomes a fetus (I've read variously that this is 7 weeks or 10 weeks). A bit too early for the Supreme Court, whose criterion was viability. Far too late for many pro-life people, who want to protect blastocysts.

[Bouncy Ball]

32. Some pro-life people get upset

about a woman losing a viable EGG with every period.

And no, unfortunately, I am not joking.

:crazy:

[anarch]

45. "every sperm is sacred..."

Maybe that is the ultimate "pro-life" stance...that it is in fact sinful to waste a single sperm or egg, and that every egg produced by every woman on the planet should somehow be considered a child...if the egg isn't already fertilized, then by God it will be... and by a good Christian sperm, too!

Makes about as much sense to me as most of those kind of arguments, actually.

[arwalden]

28. Thank You... Professor Ball

... the small details and being accurate are important when dealing with the zealot Christians.

[Bouncy Ball]

30. Yeah because they are lying fuckers.

And that's an accurate statement, too! :rofl:

This "baby" stuff is just emotional exploitation. It's a BABY once it has been born.

[opihimoimoi]

31. Those fanatical Pubs are masticating far too much these days....

Excessive masticating makes you blind...don't these guys know that???

and since sperm are living organisms from a man....killing them is MURDER......

[Democracy White]

34. I could never

in my entire life force a woman who is pregnant as a result of rape to carry her child to term. Rape is a very scarring experience and can hold alot of psychological reprecussions on the woman. I know that if I was raped I would want to get rid of the zygote before it grows to full term because I myself is emotionally weak to handle the psychological tags that it would bring. Everyday I would look at that child and relive the trauma over and over.

I have read stories about children concieved of rape and how they are/were abused by their mother, even actually hated by their mothers because they are nothing but a byproduct of an emotional scar cause by the trauma that is rape.

God/dess is that understanding and full of unconditional love that he knows why a baby is being aborted and that stays between the woman and Him/Her no matter what the circumstances are.

Dee

[Melinda]

40. Let me share my story with you then, in contrast........

I was brutally, viciously raped at age 17, and impregnated as a result.

Roe v Wade had just become the law of the land, and I could have chosen to terminate the pregnancy, but I didn't.

I CHOSE to have my son.

I was a baby having a baby, ill-equipped to be a single parent, and suffering from the trauma of what I had endured at the hands of a monster.

But the child growing under my heart was MY child, regardless of the circumstances of his conception, and my Matthew was born.

His name means "Gift of the Lord", because that was what he was then, and is now, to me.

In my minds eye at that time, Matthew saved me from the trauma of what had happened to me. He was the one good thing to come from that horrid trauma, and his coming into my life made all the difference in mine. We grew up together, and we grew together in love.

My son is now a fine young man; he teaches High School in California, has traveled the world, served his country (6 years Navy), and works hard to make a difference in his community. I can't imagine what MY life would have been like without him in it, but I am glad that I made the choice I did... and I'll continue to stand on the side of any woman's right to choose what to do with her body, regardless the circumstance.

I share this to offer a contrasting story to the others of horror you have read so that you can know that not all have such horrible endings.

[Democracy White]

42. Thank you

and that really touched my heart. I am glad that you found a shining light in the darkness that you were in. I know I could not have done that if I was in your position. I am mentally unstable and I know that the trauma would have been hard for me.

Dee

[Melinda]

43. Ah, you are so welcome.......

Your plight is exactly why our individual rights are so important... there is no blanket answer or one "right" way when it comes to making these type decisions. We must continue to be allowed to choose what is right for us.... because after all, that is truely what freedom means.


Thanks for listening and for sharing. :hug:

[Democracy White]

44. You're right

We have many spectrums of circumstances, every situation, every line of thinking, every disorder is a spectrum, there is no black and white in this world, just many shades of grey. Most fundies only think in black and white because they can't or are unwilling to see the grey shades in between.


Dee

[noiretextatique]

35. is he offering to raise alll children conceived by rape?

"Therefore, I would keep any child given to me and raise him or her as my own, with all my love and dedication....by God's grace."

i don't believe a word of it.

[sweetheart]

36. They colonize their enemies, like "the alien"

The very purpose of the neocriminals is to colonize all persons and
parts of the earth irrevocably with their egos. Rape babys is just a
small part of that strategy, to take over a woman from her genitals
and to control her and dominate her by forcing her to carry an economic
burden that will weaken her economically and remove her as a threat to
their political tyranny.

All patriarchy uses "colonizing" as their methodology in war.

[The Magistrate]

37. Yes, Ma'am, It Is

At bottom, they view women as nothing more than living incubators, and this is the ultimate practical expression of that view.

[SeekerofTruth]

38. Yes, and the irony is the child will be considered a bastard child

because the child was born out of wedlock.

So they force the mom to have a child, then treat the child like a pariah because it was born out of wedlock.

That is some really screwed up thinking.

[seabeyond]

39. lets take it further. the woman so emotionally devastated

by the rape she kills herself at the thought of producing and creating this fetus. or the woman that has such hate or disgust, she drinks poison to get rid of this parasite. paint yourself the rosiest prettiest most pure picture,.....and you insist the woman endures. that wont be the experience, so your whole conclusion is flawed

i agree with you. if we ban abortion because it is murder, that means all, the incest, the rape, the death of a mother all takes second burner. every female must have baby, no excuse for said abortion

what about the teen that is raped, and the manly man father in his patriarchic role takes it out on the child and baby. what about the rejection of the baby. you think all will embrace the baby as you suggest

you are living in a world that isnt, and demanding all particpate in your creation.

[Kraklen]

41. Yup.

Because if concievement via rape was good enough for their children then it's good enough for other people's children.

[Lilith Velkor]

47. No

Their ultimate fantasy is an afterlife of eternal torment for all who don't think like them.

They see making life as miserable as possible for their fellow human beings as a means to that end. Especially women, for their god is a war god who hates women.