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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 10:25 PM
Original message
What is the Times (UK's) reputation? Are they a conservative UK paper?
Warning, I got this from Free Republic:

Everyone was latching on to the paragraph below over on FR in a Times UK article called: "A summer storm at Scandal Central ."

I thought Wilson ended up being right? Am I missing something here?

Here is what it said:


>>>Perhaps the biggest irony of all is that Mr Wilson’s own version of events about his trip to Niger was thoroughly undermined by a bipartisan Senate committee report a year ago, which found he had misled Congress and the public about his task, and which also found that the uranium from Niger story was one of the few Iraq WMD claims that had not been proved false.<<<

What is the Times UK's reputation?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1444050/posts
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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. As far as I understand the Times, it's pretty conservative, and now owned
by Rupert.

Any Brits out there that can address this?

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vickitulsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Not a Brit, but I was engaged to one.
He is a very bright guy and current events aware, and he told me The Times is the conservative rag in the UK but you have to realize that "conservative" means something a bit different in the UK than it does here.

I think he meant there just aren't very many truly conservative "news" papers in his country. At least I think he thought I wouldn't see them that way. He is a died-in-the-wool progressive, but he loathes Blair and has equally disparaging things to say about the opposition party's leader(s).

Just offering what little I know about it FWIW....

:shrug:

I do still love that crusty ol' Englishman, even if we did break up over September Eleventh. I can't help wondering if he might see things differently now? After 7-7 I mean. He had some mighty harsh things to say about my country right after the terrorist attacks of 2001, when I was least able to bear hearing them.

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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I just went into the other room and asked my wife. She's a Brit born and
raised in London. But she's been in the states for over 20 years. She used to buy a week-old copy of the Times every week or so at a British store here.

The Times is considered conservative, but in the sense that it's "staid", not right-wing.

She also said that even though Murdoch owns it, he's pretty much kept his hands off.

Gosh, you're the first person I've every heard say that they broke up with someone over 9/11.


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vickitulsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 04:51 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I may just be the first to admit it.
I'll bet it happened a lot in those dark days just after the attacks. Could well be all the more reason why so many don't like to talk very much about those days as well.

Ours was a totally serious relationship, begun via the Net, moved to real life, he even flew across the pond to spend a "fortnight" with me in February 2001. His previously slightly shrill anti-American-government stance (he said, as so many Europeans do, that he never held what our govt did against the American people) was tempered when he was here because he saw things he had never expected on his first trip to the U.S.

This is a worldly wise guy of almost 60 who had worked for the BCD (British Civil Defence, ask your wife about that organisation) for almost 30 years. He had extreme disaster rescue skills and certifications, worked both of the Yorkshire floods and too many disasters out of the UK to count. He was great in earthquakes, qualified as a "tunnel rat" to enter pancaked buildings that had collapsed and trapped living people and bodies that had to be gotten out. So he worked in Turkey, Iran, Iraq following quakes there. He had so many stamps on his passport it was a mosaic. He'd been to (he estimated) maybe 20 countries over the years. He worked the famine/war scene in Rwanda in 1994 -- his worst assignment and his longest, providing clean drinking water to an orphanage in the middle of the war. The orphanage also sheltered women and elderly men who were sick or injured. Many had been wounded by the factions fighting, even though they were non-combatants. Rod's team was even shot at when they would transport their water cleaning machine to the nearest water hole some miles away from the orphanage to fill it up. Well-fed young "warriors" would wait in ambush for them there, knowing they could force them to give the clean water to THEM if they could catch them. Rod's team went prepared, however, and armed, so they were always able to get their precious machine and the clean water it could provide back to the orphanage.

The BCD team remained in Rwanda for six weeks, Rod's longest stint at a disaster site. It was so physically and emotionally draining for him he wrote in his personal log on the plane on the way back to the UK: NEVER AGAIN! Underlined several times.

He did continue with rescue work, however -- just not the sort he encountered in Rwanda. How many people do you know who would go so far as my Roderick to practice what he preached about caring for the world?

Yet this same man had such an anti-American attitude when I met him I could hardly talk with him. If we hadn't had other reasons to like each other and persist in trying to communicate, we'd never have made it very far past "Where you from?" ;-)

But we fell in love and he hopped on a plane to Tulsa in February 2001 -- and was totally amazed at what America was REALLY like, down at the heartland, grassroots, real life level where I live. We ate at a Route 66 diner in midtown Tulsa and he loved the chow so much we went back there at least ten times during his two week stay! Apparently British food leaves something to be desired.

I took him into the outlying areas from Tulsa where I'd lived a lot of my life, into the rural and lake country. We even spent five days and nights in a lake cabin originally built by the WPA back in the 30's! It was glorious, even if it was winter. The weather was deliciously mild when we arrived yet it snowed lightly on us the day we pulled out from the cabin. I drove him around that area, where I had lived when I was 19 and 20 years old. My folks had put a mobile home on a small acreage after my dad retired from the Highway Patrol, and down those country roads (unpaved, but passable most days) were the homely shacks, mobile homes, and tin-reinforced dwellings of truly poor people. Yet they weren't even aware for the most part that they populated the "below poverty level" end of the economic spectrum ... I know because I was one of 'em.

Rod was completely shocked. Stunned. Smart as he was, wise even, he had NO IDEA that there were poor people in America! That may be overstating it just slightly, but he certainly was not prepared for what he saw down those rural Oklahoma roads. I asked him did he think all of us drove BMW's and lived in mansions? Of course he didn't, but it's amazing at the misperceptions so many around the world have about us Americans....

By the time he flew back to the UK, our plans to get married were firm. One of us would have to relocate, as a marriage across the big pond just would NOT do. We were prepared to go that far to be together.

Then September 11th happened ... and after his first instinctive desire to "bounce" out on a disaster rescue mission to help the firefighters and medical people at Ground Zero, Rod began to rant at the USA as he had done when we first met. Before he got to know this American lady really well and learn the truth about what the USA is like. From a positive, upbeat point of view -- mine -- that is.

I was in what could only be called shock for a full seven days after 9-11. I'm a TV news junkie and some days watched cable news networks all day, so doing that from the Tuesday of the attacks until the following Tuesday was not an "unusual" behavior for me. I was glued to the TV set, could hardly bear to walk the dog, afraid I'd miss some important breaking news.

I couldn't eat; couldn't sleep worth a damn; couldn't carry on a normal conversation with friends or family. I stayed in bed and wanted to pull the covers over my head and make the world go away. At the end of the week post 9-11, I had a nightmare that was the mother of all nightmares. (And I've had them all my life, stemming from a history of childhood abuse.) I dreamed I was in a small mountain village in some third world country, at night, wandering around looking for Rod while the village was being bombed. I couldn't find Rod, and the people I encountered were scareder than I was. It was bloody, gory, and truly apocalyptic.

I woke up shaking and falling apart, went to a neighbor friend's apartment and she talked me down, gave me a Valium. After that, I began to pull out of the dive I'd been in, which was potentially suicidal. But things were never the same between Rod and me after that time. Even while I was trying to get my head around the horrors of 9-11 and the backlash that came at Americans (after the compassion that was expressed first), Rod was joining in the attack, accusing the U.S. of vile doings in the world (not unjustified in all cases but I couldn't take it just then). Our relationship deteriorated very quickly until he happened to be diagnosed with cancer and just dropped out of sight almost overnight.

You could say it was the diagnosis that caused our breakup, but I know the truth: it was the discord and pain over 9-11.

*Whew* Haven't told that story in a long time. Guess I needed to or I wouldn't have spilled it here. Thanks for listening.


.... Guess I'll always be just an all-American girl....

P.S. I'm a singer/songwriter too, and I wrote a couple of really good songs after 9-11 that I never sing. Just remembered that ... strange.

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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 05:32 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. I''m going to PM you in a minute.`
Thanks for being so personal...I'm impressed, and amazed.

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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 05:45 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. I can't find you on PM...
vickitulsa isn't coming u...

There you go.

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vickitulsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #10
18. Thanks. My first one of these here ... now if I can find it...
*BSEG*
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. It is apparent
Edited on Sun Jul-17-05 07:48 AM by DoYouEverWonder
that you really care for this person and he sounds like a very wothwhile person to be friends with. May I suggest that you try to get in touch with him again, especially since he is sick and before its too late. Personally, I would rather face the rejection and know, rather then wonder if we could have at least been friends.

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Tom Bombadil Donating Member (175 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Traditionally the Times was considered
conservative, but only moderately so. Slighty to the right of centre I'd say.

Editorial nowadays doesn't seem that influenced by Murdoch and the political leanings of the paper's columnists are varied.

Simon Jenkins, one of the best there is, recently moved to the Sunday Times.

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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. Hi Tom Bombadil!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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wurzel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. I think it is owned by Murdoch who owns FOX.
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LiviaOlivia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. Murdoch took over that paper in 1981
WHO OWNS WHAT
News Corp. Corporate Timeline
1910s | 1930s | 1950s | 1960s | 1970s | 1980s | 1990s | 2000-present

http://www.cjr.org/tools/owners/newscorp-timeline.asp#2000

~snip~

1981 - Takes over Times and Sunday Times in London
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jzodda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 05:14 AM
Response to Original message
8. Conservative there does not = here
Its a conservative british rag but that means something very different then here. The UK has no social conservatives at all so the dividing lines between labor and the tories are in economic matters, european integration, foreign policy..



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cheeseit Donating Member (152 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 06:40 AM
Response to Original message
11. Conservative, traditional paper of the establishment
Edited on Sun Jul-17-05 06:46 AM by cheeseit
Now Murdoch owned but, as pointed out above, he keeps a rather looser grip on it than his other publications. The paper is deeply conservative, and in more than just the small-c traditionalist sense (although it is this, too); but it's not insane, drooling right-wing whacko (that's the Telegraph). If I rememebr rightly they endorsed the Conservatives during this years election and Labour in 2001.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. Hi cheeseit!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 06:47 AM
Response to Original message
12. Yes, they're conservative
but not rabidly so - though their chief US correspondent, Gerard Baker, is a complete brown-noser for the Bush regime (he's also a contributing editor to The Weekly Standard in the USA). So, it came as no surprise to find it's a quote from a commentary piece of his. I think he receives the GOP talking points along with Fox News and other Friends of Cheney.

The Times is still reasonably influential in British political circles (Washington Post/New York Times kind of thing), so it's worth Bush getting his propaganda into it - it may help him with things in Britain a bit, and it won't hurt Halliburton either.
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T_i_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 07:34 AM
Response to Original message
13. Murdoch rag
VERY popular with the commuter crowd down in my neck of the woods. Personally I'd much rather read the Daily Telegraph. It's actually more right wing but it has a much better standard of reporting then the Times.

That said I actually pick up a copy of Metro when commuting and I'm happy with that.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
14. Too bad that one paragraph is so INCORRECT on both counts.
But don't even bother trying to explain the real facts to freeping rightwingnuts.
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mr blur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
19. It's a conservative Murdoch paper,
but not in a Fox News rabid right wing sort of way. It may be the most "reasonable" news outlet that the Dirty Digger is involved with. I mean, I can bear to read it but the writing is not all that great. Traditionally the paper of the Establishment here - people who ran the country would read it every morning to see what the other people who ran the country were up to. For a long time it had the air of "quality" about it but no longer so, esp. since Murdoch stepped in.
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