WOW!!! Take a look Media Matters. Their home page is filled with

[Quixote1818]

dozens and dozens and dozens of false Plame/Wilson reports with an RNC stamp on them. The number of media mistakes on this is stifling!!!! It's like they put out one fire and the Right starts ten more!!! :banghead:

The media should be fined if they don't retract their mistakes!

I was over their reporting the Times UK's mistake about Wilson. I am not sure if they report on mistakes in UK papers though. I asked them to contact the Times and let them know their mistake.

http://mediamatters.org/


Please write to as many media outlets as possible about this: http://www.rumormillnews.com/MEDIA_EMAIL_ADDRESSES.htm

[mcctatas]

1. It's just too bad that Media Matters doesn't have a weekly TV show

to disseminate that kind of info. Of course to get most of the sheeple to pay any attention to it, it would probably have to be on FOX...oh never mind.:banghead: :argh:

[Peace Patriot]

4. The sheeple?

63% of them disapprove of torture UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.
58% of them opposed the Iraq war BEFORE THE INVASION. (I'll never forget that stat.)
60% to 70% of them oppose every major Bush policy, foreign and domestic, in poll after poll after poll.
50% to 60% of them have given Bush the most dismal and unprecedented disapproval of any president, on-going for over a year now.
And 60% of the voters among them voted to oust the Bush Cartel--and you can't tell me otherwise. I know the evidence.

These are not sheeple. These are DISENFRANCHISED and DISEMPOWERED Americans who represent the majority of this great progressive country. Don't sneer at them. Help them. Help us all get our country back.

-------

The answer to the stink in Washington DC is restoring our right to vote, by throwing Bushite electronic voting machine companies--Diebold, ES&S and brethren--out of the election business NOW--or, at the least, achieving some measure of election transparency with paper ballot backups, no secret programming code owned and controlled by Bushites, and strict election auditing. The only place where we can get that done is in state/local jurisdictions, where the authority over election systems still resides, and where ordinary people still have some say. See the DU Forum "2004 Election Results and Discussion" for information and action ideas:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=203http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=203

[Jim Sagle]

7. Any time I see that retrograde term, "sheeple", I look for the alert

button (although I usually don't press it). The people are too badly overworked by a top-down economy, too horribly underinformed by the corporate media, and too shamefully underserved by the "opposition" party to be saddled with such a derisive term.

[Quixote1818]

17. Wow, great points. nt

[Talismom]

24. Although I've used the term to describe those who parrot the MSM lines

and refuse to consider alternatives, I think you point was expressed very well. I agree with you and will use your wording in the future.:)

[WhoWantsToBeOccupied]

27. Don't forget the systematic theft of our votes!

[MH1]

28. Yes, but.

I agree with you in spirit, but...

Let me tell you about someone I know. Family guy withkids, busy, overworked, like you said (but not underpaid as far as I can tell). Remember the Apprentice? This guy can tell you every stinking nuance about every friggin' person on that show.

Ask - late last week, after it's been in the MSM for crying out loud - what do think you will happen to Karl Rove? Response, "who's Karl Rove?"

I can give many more examples. why I even bother, who knows. maybe for the fun of exploring the depths of comatoseness.

Okay. THAT's who I mean when I say "sheeple."

I do try to be careful with the term. But there's really no excuse for someone not paying ANY attention to what is going on with their government. And then bitching about "politicians" when something does break through their general stupor.

[Cats Against Frist]

30. Wha?

I think that it's taking identity politics, too far, when you've decided that the middle and lower classes, in total, constitute a "victimized group." It is the fault of these very classes, in what they eat, what they purchase, what they watch on TV, how they live, what they're scared of, who they hate, and their very desire to not steward their democracy -- which is basically a civic responsibility -- that gets all of us where we are, today. And that doesn't necessarily absolve DU members, you or me.

"Sheeple" is, as I understand it, a term that describes someone who stubbornly decides not to make a vested interest in looking and living in a broader world than their "individual family home," or whatnot. I think it is also used to describe people who watch too much goddamn TV that it rots their brains.

I don't think it's a derrogatory term, and though it's always stupid to generalize -- making excuses for the masses -- as in "they're all being victimized," is ridiculous. Interestingly enough, if you're suggesting that it's so easy for the "overlords" to render everyone the sort of willing, innocent, apathetic human capital, that you suggest -- then, I think, they are, in fact -- sheeple.

[wryter2000]

40. Sheeple

Someone who's deliberately decided not to be part of the fact-based community. I know hard-working Republicans with whom I'm never going to agree on 85% of the issues who have nevertheless opened their eyes to Bush and his crimes. I'd never refer to those folks as sheeple.

The woman I work with, someone I dearly love, still thought through part of last week that Saddam Hussein had tried to buy uranium but couldn't get it. There's no excuse for that, but I wouldn't even call her a sheeple. Someone who believes that liberals wanted to give Bin Laden therapy just because an exposed liar told them that deserves derision. At least in private. As a tactic, it's pretty counterproductive.

[K-W]

36. Domesticated sheep dont herd themselves.

The things you mentioned are the sheep dogs of the metaphor.

There is nothing wrong with using the metaphor of sheep to point out that people are naturally social animals and that the powerful prey on peoples natural tendencies to get them to conform to official desires.

It is an apt metaphor regardless of the fact that some people have used the term ignorantly.

[many a good man]

44. Who are the shepherds? Party leaders? Press

Turkish shepherds look at dead sheep in the town of Gevas, near the city of Van, eastern Turkey, Thursday, July 7, 2005. First one sheep jumped to its death. Then stunned Turkish shepherds, who had left the herd to graze while they had breakfast, watched as nearly 1,500 others followed, each leaping off the same cliff, according to the Turkish media reported on Friday July 8, 2005. In the end, 450 dead animals lay on top of one another in a billowy white pile. Those who jumped later were saved as the pile got higher. (AP Photo/Sukru Akyuz/IHA) Fri Jul 8, 9:57 PM ET

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050709/ap_on_re_mi_ea/turk...

[K-W]

45. I would say the wealthy.

Everyone else functions to service them including the party leaders etc

[leesa]

38. Disagree. They have LOTS of time to watch sports, play games, go shopping

for stuff they don't need, etc., etc. A couple years ago I may have agreed, but this is too serious for them to continue watching teevee sports and the Survivor shows for 20 hours a week. No excuse.

Ask them about sports or the latest teevee shows, they know ALL the details.

[mcctatas]

9. Didn't mean to set you off...

but not all people who believe the current administrations lies are disenfranchised or disempowered...but I do agree, not all are sheeple either. I was merely pointing out the irony of how hard it is to get out ACCURATE information when the media, especially FOX, is in bed with a corrupt administration. Perhaps you could lighten up just a wee bit?...or not, just don't assume that one post you find objectionable means I am a cynical, sneering elitist.:yoiks:

[K-W]

37. But arent sheep disempowered too?

Isnt that the entire point of the metaphor.

Sheep herd naturally, a trait that is exploited by people to control thier behavior so that they can be exploited for food and raw materials.

How is this different than leaders preying on human fears, wants, and beliefs to get them to conform so that they can be exploited for economic and political gain?

I know the sheep person comparison has been used in ignorant ways on this forum, as an insult to less aware people, but that in itself doesnt discredit an apt comparison.

[NMDemDist2]

25. I got called for a survey here in AZ yesterday

started out with questions on the basic state of AZ economy then on to Bushco

on every question I sang out "He suckssssss" or "It sucksssss" after telling the young lady "sucks = very poorly"

She was laughing so hard she was almost in tears by the time we made it to the end of the list of questions.

I also took a the time to give a little commentary on the different questions and she even said "Wow Really??" to one of my comments (going off her script completely LOL)

[Booster]

31. Amen.

[Helga Scow Stern]

43. Right on, Peace Patriot!

Sheeple is almost a Rove talking point.

[snowbear]

11. Ohh... that would be such an EXCELLENT idea !!!

We should ask them what it would take to have their own hour long show --maybe even starting out on Air America?

Right now, they do have someone from Media Matters on Al Franken's show weekly ~~ but it would be great seeing them on their own tv show!

Great idea! :toast:

[mcctatas]

14. It would be wonderful to have some of that personal accountability

that the bushies are so fond of when it comes to the lies spewed by their operatives...now that some of the corporate media has found their collective testicular fortitude again, who knows what can happen!:toast:

[Quixote1818]

18. Perhaps DU could start a fund for such program

Or we could send the idea to Al Gore. I would give money to something like that. I am sure a lot of people would.

[randr]

33. Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting

in heard on many public/community stations weekly.
http://www.fair.org/index.php

[glitch]

42. I never miss counterspin - they archive mp3s so I don't have to!

Also Between the Lines http://www.btlonline.org/

[punpirate]

2. This is the program from now on...

... produce as much confusion as possible. Out of that will come the belief that the administration has created plausible denial regarding the evidence for war, no matter what happens with regard to Fitzgerald's investigation.

Cheers.

[Why Syzygy]

3. Link ~

http://mediamatters.org/

also see ~
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1933877

[Fridays Child]

5. All the spin in the world won't stop the indictment of lawbreakers.

[yorgatron]

6. they're trying to bury us

in bullshit.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

10. And that has absolutely no bearing in a Grand Jury.

[JDPriestly]

8. What if there are no indictments?

What if the prosecutor is in on the cover-up?

What if the prosecutor never gets the evidence on exactly who the leaker was? What if Rove, et al. get by with this? What do we do then? How do we keep pressure on these guys?

We can't put all our chips on the prosecutor. We don't really know anything about him.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

12. If you don't know anything about Fitzgerald, who's fault is that?...

...do some homework and then tell us what you find out.

[Quixote1818]

13. We should still make an effort to show all these mistakes

I posted a link to Media outlets. We should write them ALL.

[Fridays Child]

46. Yes, I agree. For whatever it may be worth, we still have to do that.

[Fridays Child]

47. Here's a good starting point on Fitzgerald.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4122819&mesg_id=4122819

[Catrina]

15. How come the RNC

gets their talking points to the media??? Where are the DNC talking points, flooding the same media? Screaming, yelling or whatever it is the rightwing does to get their lies out there?

I watched Fox's John Wilson the other night for as long as I could take it, and I never, ever in my life saw such a string of lies one after the other, about Joe Wilson. They should be sued. Can we get a class action suit going on behalf of the people of the US?

They are getting DESPERATE and the media, once again, is helping them.

Pressure needs to be put on the DNC to flood the media with talking points and not responses to the lies, we're always responding. But with facts and demands for the truth. Don't they ever do anything? Don't they know by now that when cornered, the criminals will lie, and lie and lie?

The media is a disgrace anyway ~ I will write to them, and will send everyone I know corrections of any lies I can. I have already done that, will have a chance to do so tomorrow also, with some Repub friends ~ I will say this, it is getting easier to tell my Repub friends the truth. In the past, they wouldn't listen, now they ask me for websites that are not partisan, but will give them the facts. Even Republicans are worried about his country.

[Quixote1818]

16. Remember all the lies about Terri and Michael Schiavo?

The Right is really sick! This is just out of control insanity and the sad thing is the Media commits the crime for them!

Liberal media???? BULL SHIT!

[Quixote1818]

49. .

[Lecky]

21. b/c we don't need spin, we have the truth

I think most people realize what is going down, what kind of idiot really believes that Rove learned about Plame through Novak? Those people have shit for brains and are most likely in serious denial or they choose to ignore the truth because it hurts their own party.

I heard one repuke admit today that Rove probably had something to do with outing Plame, but they didn't care because democrats play dirty too. He was more worried about Rove getting caught than the actual truth...

I wanted to break something

[fooj]

22. Welcome to DU. Yes. We have TRUTH.

Truth is our most powerful weapon.

peace.

[Catrina]

29. I agree

we don't need spin, and I wasn't suggesting we do what they do. I was asking why the DNC doesn't get as much of the truth out on the media, as the RNC's spin.

Eg, take the Repub talking points ~ if the DNC had a list of truthful talking points, (if they do, I have not seen them) that would be helpful, since the media seems to like talking points.

The whole premise of the RNC talking points is based on the lie that Joe Wilson said that Cheney sent him to Niger.

The media repeats this lie, even when they do it by asking Mehlmann, eg, a question ~

DNC truthful talking points should begin with 'Joe Wilson has always said that he was sent to Niger by the CIA, not by Dick Cheney as the RNC has erroneously stated'.

Other talking points should explain why the CIA requested an investigation. Why Rove should have reported his conversation with Novak to the CIA. If you read their talking points, it's so easy to refute them with the facts.

I can't count the number of times I had to refute the 'J.Wilson lied when he said Cheney sent him to Niger' lie, and 'Valerie Plame was not undercover when Novak outed her' this week ~ even to Democrats who haven't been following the story. This could be all made simple if the DNC had a fact sheet sent out to the media, and calls to them demanding that they stop repeating the lies of the RNC.

The rightwing screams about the media being biased, even though they know it isn't ~ we know it is, so it is the truth to make a huge issue out their bias towards this administration.

[C_U_L8R]

26. I have the same questions / RNC = Conspiracy

If the RNC is putting out BLATANT LIES (as printed talking points
and through surrogates speaking to the media) THEN is this not
a CONSPIRACY ?? Is this not an orchestrated effort to distract, decieve
and cover-up a FEDERAL CRIME ????


Who has the power to start INDICTING all these CROOKS?
The evidence is clear... and flowing every day.
Do we let them put the noose further around their necks?

The only thing that worries me is that they might slither
away with this gross ABUSE OF POWER because our side lacks
the strength or coordination to pull off a CHECK MATE.

Someone please tell me that our guys are playing to win.
We're gonna win this one.. right??

[dalaigh lllama]

32. Which nonpartisan websites

do you recommend? I'd like to have a few to recommend to my republican friends.

[Catrina]

39. Since I rely

on official or documented sources, such as the Congressional Record, eg, when applicable. In the case of whether Rove violated any laws, I link my Repub friends to the non-disclosure agreement Rove signed. They are smart enough to compare what he actually did, re Novak (which was reported in their own rightwing sources) and what he was obligated to do, and draw their own conclusions.

I have also asked my RW friends who continue to insist that Wilson said Cheney sent him, for a source for this alleged statement. I've been waiting all week for that!! Some have had to acknowledge that THEIR only source came from 'unsourced' statements from the RNC and their various RW outlets!! They are not dumb, it takes a while, but I can see that many of my personal friends and Republican family members do care more about their country than their party!

This week, a Bush-supporting (he voted for him twice) member of my family, now thinks Bush lied about this war and should be impeached.

His words to me (and we could not even discuss politics for the past three years) were 'I am a Republican, but any president who lies about something like this, needs to go'.

The RW attacks that used to work, are not working anymore. Too many people have now seen the returning wounded, the dead in their home towns. We don't need the media, they are HERE in our towns, and so people are seeing the cost of this war with their own eyes, and are paying way more attention to WHY we are in Iraq.

While 'casualties' mean little to the warmongers in the WH, they mean EVERYTHING to ordinary Americans ~ and they want answers. They know one thing, right and left, there were no WMDs. That makes Joe Wilson way more believable than the RNC now!!

I also refer them to statements made by the WH before the war. I give them quotes from Rumsfeld, Cheney, Bush, Wolfowitz et al. I ask them why Larry Lindsey was fired, or Paul O'Neill smeared, or Richard Clark, or Gen. Shinseki, Gen. Zinni, the IAEA, Joe Wilson and anyone else who even dared question them? And who was right, all these people, many of them Republicans, or the WH?

And, btw, the DNC ought to include the growing list of names of decent Americans, like Paul O'Neill, who have been attacked simply for telling the truth, by this administration.

[girl gone mad]

19. The media is horrible.

Their reporting on this story is worse than ever.

Helping to get us into a stupid war was bad enough, but this feels even more personal, since it can't be chalked up simply to naivety or the ratings chase.

[slor]

20. " media mistakes" ?...

How I wish they were only "mistakes" and that they would simply be corrected. The fact is, the media has been all too complicit in the crimes of this administration, since before he stole the WH in 2000.

[snot]

23. Even the media can be liable for defamation!

They're held to a lower standard based on First Amendment concerns; but last I knew, they could still be held liable for defamation involving a "reckless disregard" for the truth--and lord knows many of them are way past that.

The next question would be, who has standing to sue. Wilson, certainly, but I'd like to see lots more plaintiffs . . .

And I wonder about liability based on other kinds of misrepresentation--e.g., intentional fraud. I'm sorry to say, but it seems to me that much of the media has actually reached that level.

As an aside, I'm happy to note the contrast between what we're getting from some outlets vs. what many individual reporters would now clearly prefer to be telling us. I mean, the way the WH press corps. grilled McClellan . . . !

[Douglas Carpenter]

34. Media Matters is Great

http://mediamatters.org / provides so much info. I wish there were

more like them..

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[Ilsa]

35. I hope the RNC lies themselves into oblivion.

There will always be the diehard Mehlmans in the RNC, but their veracity might be part of hte reason why their political contributions are diminishing compared to the DNC.

[Quixote1818]

41. Kick

[dogday]

48. Republican are saying lies like it is the truth

this does not surprise me.....