Are video games protected as an art form? Reminded of a dung painting...

[fujiyama]

in NYC a few years ago. Guiliani was absolutely pissed about it.

Most DUers probably (or atleast hopefully) understood that as offensive as that may have been, it was protected as free expression under the first amendment.

Video games, as far as I know, are as well (though I may likely be wrong here since no precedent has been set on video games at the SC level).

The fact is, we are faced with many offensive images. I personally find Fox News terribly offensive, but I'm not going to ban it. I find Pat Robertson to be a hateful, mean spirited ass hole, but honestly, I don't give a shit about the hate he spews, because I know he's full of shit.

OTOH, I find GTA:SA to be a mindless, silly game where you go around shooting stuff (I don't own it but I've played it a few times). It's amusing and entertaining, reminescent of a bad action flick and yes, I understand why people would find it offensive.

But that doesn't mean anyone has the right to ban it.

We live (or so some claim) that we live in a free society and in such a society we face certain risks - one of those is getting offended.

The fact is, the entertainment industry has adopted guidelines giving parents a reasonable idea of what to expect in a game. A game like GTA, which features shooting people (including cops), running over pedestrians, and pimping hookers is rated M (Mature 17+). An R rated film, like say Natural Born Killers (never saw it but heard it has similar content), was rated R.

So, that's it. R = M. G=E. T=PG-13.

There's nothing to this system folks. It's simple to follow. Here's a link...and leave gamers in peace.

http://www.esrb.org/esrbratings_guide.asp



As for this "patch" (which is a hack), it is VIOLATING Rockstar Games' own user end agreement. Users are not supposed to play around with the code in the first place. And kids that can find this, sure can find MUCH raunchier stuff on the internet (including Man on Dog's favorite fetish - bestiality).

So, if you don't like the game, don't buy it for your kid. Concerned about your child's friends have these games? Contact their parents. Send them the above link. Still worried they'll play the game? Well, lock your kid up then, because video games should be the least of your worries out there.

[JackDragna]

1. If they're not, they should be.

Video games now present the public with a level of immersion in entertainment not previously seen. It's one thing to watch a character in a movie make important decisions: it's another thing to be making those decisions. Video games, more than ever, are art.

[mduffy31]

2. This is my thing

It seemed that these people didn't have a real objection to this game before the mod, you know the fact that you kill cops, hookers, steal cars, its the fact that you can set up the game to show a womans tits that is objectional. Once again sex is dirty, but violence is devine.

[fujiyama]

3. I saw the screen shots

and didn't even notice any nudity. Just some poorly animated, blocky, simulated sex (they keep their clothes on).

It was stupid. Perhaps about as bad as would appear on some Fox show on primetime.

Either way, these politicians are wasting a lot of time.

[CrazyForKucinich]

6. As I said before in a different thread

If Hillary Clinton wants to do some good. She should get rid of the Girls Gone Wild commercials that are on all the time on BASIC LOCAL CABLE even. That is far more adult and real than a videogame sex with clothes on.

[madeline_con]

7. They also deal, right?

:shrug:

[evilkumquat]

4. After Seeing for Myself the "Offending" Video...

Anyone who is going to get aroused by it is certainly a danger to himself and others because, if the cheesy computer simulated sex is enough to stimulate that individual's prurient interests, then he is likely to rip his own dick off masturbating furiously to a JC Penney's catalog (or even a Parade Magazine cover) and probably injuring anyone around him by hitting their eyes with bits of meat.

Evil Kumquat

[CrazyForKucinich]

5. Xenogears, Metal Gear Solid 1, MGS 2, MGS 3...

Chrono Trigger, FFIV, FFVI, FFVII, FFVIII and FFX...some of the greatest stories ever told in any medium.

Videogames are definitely art in many ways. From a story standpoint, to graphics, to music, and so on. A hell of a lot goes into crafting them to what you end up playing.

[ToeBot]

8. If Hillary was content to stay in the senate none of this would matter,

Nothing much will change as a result of all this 'Outrage', particularly since it's based on nothing. All she is really doing is pissing off the young (and not so young) male demographic. Granted it's a group not likely to vote and even less likely to vote for her; it won't make any difference to her bid for reelection. But if this is supposed to be a move to help propel her to the Presidency, I think it's a mistake. The gaming industry is huge and it's closely tied (obviously) to the tech industry. Many, many people will see this as unnecessary governmental interference in a business that is already adequately self-regulated. It may be just enough to sway their vote. Gore putting that moralizing ass Lieberman on the ticket was enough to sway me. Personally, I wont vote for another DLC splitter, regardless of there stance on censorship. It would be nice if the Dem's ran a Dem for President again, I wasn't old enough to vote for Carter.

[RC]

9. I would like to know the ages of the other posters on this thread.

In every popular video game I have seen, you win, go to the next level, whatever by laying down a swath of destruction, killing, blowing up, knocking down stuff. The more stuff, the higher the score or the more 'power' you have.
And yet war and indiscriminate killing and destruction in real life is bad because bu$h in into it?
When one spends hours every day or with some people, all day, every day killing things for fun, how can it not carry over into reality?
A strong case can be made that these video games are training for future canon fodder for this or future wars by desensitizing the player to the human factor of others. Just as the military dehumanizes the enemy to make it easier for you to kill them.
If these games involved under age sex people would be foaming at the mouth about all the child molesters we are creating. But because this country glorifies killing, death and destructions of anything not self, these games are good and wholesome? Give me a break.

[evilkumquat]

10. I'm Thirty-Three...

...and I have been playing video games since Colecovision.

I have had an Atari 2600, IntelliVision, Commodore 64, Nintendo, Super-Nintendo, Sega Genesis, Nintendo64, GameCube and I play most of my games lately on a PC.

I have been playing violent video games since "Pac-Man". In fact, the only reason I bought that crappy Sega Genesis is because it had an uncensored version of "Mortal Kombat" (the most despicable "violent" video game of its day).

I also watch violent movies, violent television shows and surf violent and gory websites. I have seen the uncensored Iraqi hostage beheading videos, footage of the aftermath of suicide bombers and the color photos of the Tate murders.

I do not read the Bible, however, because it makes me sick.

Anyway, despite exposure to the worst of all the trashy, gooey violence, I am a Loony, Left-Wing, Anti-Gun* Liberal.

Violent movies, television shows and video games do NOT cause violence. Period.

People predisposed to be violent, however, often enjoy violent media. One does NOT cause the other.

Just remember how many people have died because of reading the Bible, a book filled with more violence and death than any iteration of Grand Theft Auto.

Evil Kumquat
________________________________

*I personally hate "real life" guns and secretly wish we had more gun-control, but lately, my position has been changing. How can I be so fervently opposed to an ounce of suppression of the First Amendment and yet be okay with any curtails of the liberties guaranteed by the Second? I hate hypocrisy an any form and the worst kind, in my opinion, is the kind I have myself.

[CrazyForKucinich]

11. in Metal Gear Solid series stealth is key

And you can beat all the games without "killing" anyone.

I'm 23.

[fujiyama]

16. I'm 24 and don't play video games

I have friends that do though and they aren't violent. When I was younger I played Doom and I haven't hurt anyone.

And no one said it was wholesome. The games in question are meant for adults.

So no, why don't you give gamers a break and spare us this self righteousness.

[Kraklen]

23. 28. How old are you?

Given that you apparently haven't loked at a game in 20 years I wonder.

Why don't videogames cause kids to hurt people? Because human beings, even young children, know the difference between fiction and reality. I wish all adults knew the difference between reality and Family Research Council bullshit.

[KittyWampus]

12. The Dung Painting Referenced, In Part, The Custom Of Vibhuti, Or

anointing oneself with dung ash. And evokes the alchemical transmutaion of the mundane to the sacred.

The actual subject matter (Virgin) also touched that which unites mankind and what is sacred and in so doing, added positive energy to the Collective Unconscious.

Violent video games add negative energy to the Universe.

Playing them reinforces that energy and amplifies it.

If you want to rid the world of violence, and criticize the Neo-Cons for their violent, reptilian behavior... then don't engage in violent behavior ON ANY LEVEL.

I may not agree to passing laws to censor video PRODUCTS MEANT FOR CONSUMPTION.

But I certainly will point out the hypocracy of DU'ers and liberal who SAY they want Peace and yet go home and play violent video games.

[fujiyama]

14. You can claim whatever you want

If video games were significantly responsible for violence in society then Japan would be much more violent.

Also, does watching violent movies "add negativ energy to the universe"? What about books? What about the bible?

[KittyWampus]

17. In Japan, Violence Is Turned Much More Inwards Towards Oneself

and regardless, Mankind's Collective Unconscious is much larger in scope than any one particular society.

True, violence and destruction are a part of Life & the Creative Process.

But Humanity is marked by its unique capacity for rising above our animal nature and contolling the impulse to blindly pursue violent behavior.

If you don't want Violence in the World, then don't participate in it or give it energy.

[kiki]

20. I'd be interested to know...

...what you think of martial arts. Martial arts are often built around philosophies of non-aggression, and have been the making of many individuals who have had a tremendously positive impact on the human race; and in my opinion, martial arts would rank in the upper echelons of man's attempts to "rise above his animal nature". Yet they could hardly be considered "pacifist", certainly not in cases of self-defense, and they appeal to a perfectly natural affinity some people have towards rapid, "violent" movement, physical exertion and, for want of a better word, excitement.

As somebody once wrote, the "poetry of violence" is for many a way to come to terms with the reality of violence, which is not going to go away any time soon, regardless of what games people play.

[jayctravis]

13. If it is true that GTA3 has pornographic content...

inconsistent with the rating they received from the board (as this is in a cheat code and potentially was not reviewed) then the rating becomes misleading and they might be liable for some sort of penalty...if anything it establishes that game companies need to lay the *entire* content of their game bare, including easter eggs and features.

It's possible that this was included without the publisher's knowledge, then they certainly should fire whoever put this in the game.

Not that there's nothing wrong with pornography, but it does deserve an Ao rating.

[fujiyama]

15. Why?

Films with R ratings have nude sex scenes.

AO is reserved only for those that feature full nudity - something this coffee mod doesnt' feature.

[jayctravis]

21. Not familiar with the mod.

But if some staffer hid stuff in a game that exceeded its rating...that was my point.

[mongo]

24. Not exactly true

But if some staffer hid stuff in a game that exceeded its rating..

No, some HACKER wrote a modification without the knowledge or approval of the games manufacturer.

If I write a modification to some veggie tales game - that involves cucumbers and radishes having sex - should the veggie tales game then be rated adult?

[MinotaurArms]

18. I have seen a mod for the original Super Mario Bros.

called "KKK Brothers". Mario starts off as a skinhead, grabs a cross (mushroom) and becomes a hooded klansman. The koopa troopas (turtles from the original) become offensive caricatures of Blacks crawling with KFC buckets on their backs. The fish in the underwater levels are yet another offensive Black caricature with a giant penis.

This duplicable modification gets no outcry from senators and should not, since Nintendo had no part in it. Rockstar North had no part in the "sex patch" for GTA:SA. However, when sex is brought into video games, there is Puritan prudishness while racism and violence go on with no hitches.. I find this controversy to be a pathetic attempt by Hillary to appeal to conservatives.

BTW, GTA:SA is a work of art in my humble opinion.

[kiki]

19. Just like comics...

...video games are a minor, unrespected art form that tends to slip under the radar until somebody decides to make a fuss (witness the "Seduction of the Innocent" campaign that put EC Comics out of business in the 50s). While this tends to work to their advantage, it also means that reactions are quite extreme when they do arise.

It seems to me that much of today's computer technology, particularly in the user interfaces we take for granted, was developed in the realm of games... video games are essentially where the concept of "interactive" was born. In the future, whatever replaces televisual entertainment will essentially be an extension of video games.

[Kraklen]

22. Yes, it's a protected art form.

This is very much like people burning Harry Potter books.