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ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 04:30 PM
Original message
Neo-Cons = Dominionists
Edited on Sun Jul-17-05 04:39 PM by ck4829
Wherever I see a Neo-Con, I always see a 'christian' Rightist not too far away.


Paul Weyrich. He has been called both a Neo-Con and the father of the 'christian' Right.

Gary Bauer. Both a 'christian' Rightist and a member of PNAC.

Jeb Bush. Seems as though he is a servant of the 'christian' Right. He is also a member of PNAC.


Some people are scared of Neo-Cons.

Some people are scared of the 'christian' Right.

Well, I have news for you. They are one and the same.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. Anyone who does not see that is denying reality. Any Neocon who thinks
he is not serving the needs of the Dominionists, is being used, and does not even know it.
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Redneck Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. I've always seen it as the reverse.
The Dominionists (and the so called religious right as a whole) are nothing more than useful tools being used by the neo-cons.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Actually, you are right. The Neocons are the much more devious ones, and
Edited on Sun Jul-17-05 04:42 PM by BrklynLiberal
would be the ones to take advantage of the religious believers to achieve their ends.
:thumbsup:
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matt819 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. Agreed, but. . .
what accounts for non-Christians in prominent positions in the RNC and the ultra-conservative, neocon right wing?

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ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. They are willing to use non-Christians as Pawns maybe?
:shrug:
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K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. There is more than one faction in the neo-con coalition.
Paul Wolfowitz is not a Dominionist, niether are the corporate lobbyists or much of the wealthy elite.

These are multiple factions/philosophies united under the banner of Conservative. And certainly one of those factions/philosophies is the dominionists.
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. I'd agree with this assessment
While I think the Neo-Cons and the Dominionists agree on a lot of issues- notably foreign policy and beating the snot out of Arabs, that doesn't mean that they are one and the same.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. There is a lot of overlap, but they are not identical sets..There
Edited on Sun Jul-17-05 04:47 PM by BrklynLiberal
are plenty of Neocons who are not Dominionists. Theirs is a "marriage of convenience". If they would ever achieve the total power they crave, then the huge differences in their world views would wreak havoc on their interesting union.
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teknomanzer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
5. Give us some more info on Dominionists...
I really feel like reading up on something that will scare the crap of me... I'm sure that would fit the bill.
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ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Sure thing
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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Here's another
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. The more you know about Dominionists, the more frightened you will be.
But, you SHOULD learn all you can about them...
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BrotherBuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. Katherine Yurica's "The Despoiling of America" is a excellent place to sta
http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm

After you finish that, look around her site and read other related articles - you won't be disappointed. I am very impressed with her work!!!
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Ready2Snap Donating Member (212 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
13. Welcome to the party, pal
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punpirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
14. Let's look at this from the classical point of view...
... that is, that the neo-conservatives, Democrats and Republicans alike, are a product of the school of thought originating in Leo Strauss' teaching at the University of Chicago.

Strauss believed that liberalism would cause the masses to lose focus on the most important aspect in society--national identity--and to promote that nationalism which he believed would be a unifying force, it was important for government to create what he termed "necessary lies" which would rally the public around the aims of the country's leaders to project force around the world. Strauss believed this was legitimate because the country was founded on freedom and democracy, noble aims, so it was perfectly okay to use any means to spread those ideals around the world.

Implicit in this is that Strauss and his followers believed that this was a moral goal, even if the means were not moral or ethical. And, I think this is where the alliance with the religious right wing fits into the mix. The religious right wing sees its role in this grand task of bringing "freedom" and "democracy" to the world as maintaining an aura of morality around quite immoral activities.

In exchange for delivering the votes necessary to bring the neo-conservatives to power, the religious right has been promised a greater role in government by making them the arbiters of morality in society. Therefore, they are necessary to the neo-cons to maintain in society a particular moral view of that society itself--that it is both moral and of noble aims, even while it is engaging in ignoble ventures--torture, indefinite confinements, illegitimate wars of opportunity, graft, corruption of the elite, etc.

Strauss himself believed that the world could be neatly divided into good and evil, white hats and black hats (some of his colleagues said he never missed an episode of "Gunsmoke"), and that whatever one did to promote good and attack evil was acceptable.

The fundamentally undemocratic part in all this played by both the neo-cons and the religious right is that Strauss believed that it was up to a few "wise men" to determine what was good and what was evil, and for those wise men to advise the aristocrats in society (people like the President) on how to explain that Manichean division between good (our society) and evil (the rest of the world) to the masses. Certainly the religious right, being the arbiters of morality, would want to be part of that small group of wise men controlling the aristocrats of society, guiding them to the moral goals they perceived as necessary for society.

But, the neo-cons stll run the ship of state--the religious right, then, to my mind, are essential to the neo-cons in promoting a series of "necessary" lies--that we are a good country, a moral country and a god-fearing country and our aims are pure, despite how we actually behave. This fiction, promoted by the religious right, allows the masses to approve of its government doing things it wouldn't otherwise. This is why there are so many attacks on what the right calls "moral relativism," which is nothing more than the non-religious ethical belief that means do not justify ends. The neo-cons seek to discredit that so-called moral relativism because their means are fundamentally immoral, unethical and undemocratic, and their true end is the arbitrary imposition of their values on the rest of the world by use of military and economic force.

It's a conjoining of aims. The religious right believes that their Biblical mandate to spread the Gospel impels them to spread Christianity world-wide. The neo-cons believe that they are spreading "freedom" and "democracy" around the world by their actions. They've joined forces to mutually obtain their own ends.

The only problem with it all is that Strauss had no respect for democracy or Constitutional rule of law, and didn't feel that the masses were capable of understanding the truth if it were offered to them (hence the need for "necessary lies" that they could understand, and for a cadre of "wise men" to direct that society and create the necessary lies while secretly proceeding along another course).

What Strauss advocated in his philosophy is fundamentally elitist in construction, and is a prescription for totalitarianism. The religious right is along for a ride because Strauss' conception of society agrees with their own shadings of the same.

Cheers.



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BrotherBuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Thank you....
I fired off my post while grinding my teeth without even reading your post. You touched on the same subject in a much more elegant and informative fashion. Thanks :)

Shaking head - Noble lie, my ass! ;)
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BrotherBuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
16. When push comes to shove...
The Neocon agenda will trump the Dominionists agenda every time. Bank on it!...at least that's what I have been able to learn from reading some of that nutcase Leo Strauss' crap, and observing and measuring the wacko Straussians that follow his tripe.
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