“POLICE, OPEN THE DOOR!” (Need Advice)

[LiberalUprising]

This is an email from a friend, this happened to her Sunday July 17 2005
She asked me to post this at DU

Was this legal?
Any advice on how to proceed would be appreciated.

TIA



“POLICE, OPEN THE DOOR!”

Statement

Afternoon 12:00 o’clock. I am napping.

I hear a bang, bang, bang, bang on my front door. Stirring from my nap, I hear BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, on my front door.

Realizing there is someone at the door. I wake up, and go to the door. Who is it? I say.

I hear a voice yell “POLICE, OPEN THE DOOR!”

I open the door.

There are 3 uniformed officers on my door step.

Officer Joe is a huge giant 6’4” 350 lb man.

I step outside. Both of my feet are on the porch past the threshold. My door handle is in my hand. I try to close the door behind me. But was unable to because Officer Joe was pushing on it to prevent it from closing. He also refused to move so that I could get onto the porch any further. He is pushing my door so I can’t close it. And is in my face. Pushing my door open.

I said what is going on? I was asleep.

Officer Joe: We got a 911 call from this house, can we come in? (As he pushes the door. He is forcing me with his body back into the house as the door opens).

Me: No. Why are you here? I was asleep.

Officer Joe: WE GOT A 911 CALL FROM THIS HOUSE. CAN WE COME IN? He continues to push the door and me into the house.

Me: No!

Officer Joe: (pushes the door with force). WE GOT A 911 CALL FROM THIS HOUSE, (He continues pushing the door forcefully. Pushing the door and myself back into the house and past the threshold).

HE WAS IN.

Me: (In defeat). I respond. Sure! And let go of the door.

Officer John (tells me to sit down. I sit down). Is there anyone one else here?

Me: No.

Officer Joe and Officer Jack proceed to search the house opening closets and doors and peering in with their flash lights.

(While they are searching the premises.)

Officer John: (sees my driver’s license on the table by the front door.) He asks is that your driver’s license there.

Me: Yes.

Officer John: (picks up my license. And begins to examine it).

Me: There’s been a mistake. What is this about?

Officer John: We got a 911 emergency call from this house.

Me: No you didn’t there’s been a mistake.

Officer John: What is your phone number?

Me: #-#-####

Officer John: (Looks at his partner down my hallway, whom I can not see and shakes his head in an affirmative motion)

Me: There’s been a mistake.

Officer John: Is this street address ####?

Me: Yes.

Officer Joe and Officer Jack return to the living room
.
Officer John tells me they got a 911 hang up call from a cell phone. The caller gave my address and phone number.

Officer Joe: Do you live here by yourself?

Me: Yes. Are we done now?

Officer Joe. Yes.

Me: (I get up) Okay you can leave now. You owe me an apology.

Officer Joe. WE DON’T OWE YOU AND APOLOGY.
(The officers are heading to and through the door, as I follow)

Me: Yes you do? (We are all outside the door). What is your name?

Officer Joe: Joe

Me: Can I have a card? You owe me an apology.

Officer Joe: I don’t have any cards. (Turns around and faces me) WE DON’T OWE YOU AN APOLOGY WHAT If SOMEONE HAD A GUN OR KNIFE POINTED AT YOU?

Me: NO ONE HAS A GUN OR KNIFE POINTED AT ME. YOU MADE A MISTAKE YOU OWE ME AN APOLOGY, YOU BIG BULLY.

OFFICER Joe: Go back to bed!

Me: THAT’S THE TROUBLE WITH PEOPLE NOW DAYS. NO ONE WILL ADMIT WHEN THEY MAKE A MISTAKE!

(I go back in the house. They leave).


All I wanted was an apology. Maybe legally they don’t owe me and apology, But morally they do.

[William769]

1. As someone retired from law enforcement

They had probable cause. With that said I would contact the Shift Commander & report their demeanor to-wards her.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

2. Demeanor?

Jeebus, they had no demeanor except the worst. That was not a SWAT takedown. That stuff would not wash up here in NJ.

[William769]

5. I didn't say what they did was correct with how they acted

But unless instances like this are reported, it will continue to happen. It shouldn't wash up anywhere, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[shance]

3. A phone call is not "probable cause".

All they had to do was get a feel for the situation and simply ask her if everything was alright. They also could have asked her the questions out in front.

That was invasive and bordered on illegal.

What if the law enforcement officers werent so law abiding and sexually abused her? IT would be her word against theres, and guess who would probably win that case? That is why abuse continues, when there is an imbalance of power.

There's no probable cause here, at least that I am able to see.

I heard there is legislation, if a woman calls 9-11 and is alone at her house, a female officer must accompany on the call, or the police are not allowed inside, unless they have "probable cause".

[William769]

7. A 911 phone call in the State of Florida is.

[shance]

9. Even if you didn't place a call?

n/t

[William769]

50. Not all 911 systems are the same

The one I have worked with, when you call, the address will automaticly pull up on the persons screen. I do not have all the facts to go into more detail. What I gave one a opinion of the information supplied.

[cestpaspossible]

73. Do you care AT ALL about the facts of this case?

Why don't you try reading what actually happened and make your judgement based on that instead of some fantasy hypothetical?

[youspeakmylanguage]

134. Where do you get off?

The poster obviously has vast first-hand knowledge of emergency response procedures and what rights the police have. He is "making his judgement" based on what he read and what he knows personally. Where do you get off attacking him?

The cops don't owe anyone an apology. If someone breaks into my house and is holding me and my family hostage and if I manage to dial 911 and hang up, I want them coming in forcefully as well.

[cestpaspossible]

142. The facts are relevant, the posters resume is not. nt

[youspeakmylanguage]

144. What facts?

You're basing your opinion on an email account, unsigned, representing one side of an incident that may or may not be factual.

[Name removed]

149. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

156. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cestpaspossible]

159. Well if they aren't lying, let's accept the facts they've laid out.

[youspeakmylanguage]

162. ...but an expert in the field can't comment on the law w/o documentation?

...or else they're in for condescension and ridicule from you?

:rofl:

[cestpaspossible]

168. He can comment, no one said he couldn't, he just happens to be wrong.

His only supporting argument has been that he knows best because he has '15 years in law enforcement' - otherwise known as the 'Appeal to Authority' logical fallacy.

[youspeakmylanguage]

175. Yet you have offered no evidence proving him wrong...

Put up, brother.

[cestpaspossible]

178. I have no desire to prove anyone wrong.

He made a positive assertion that the cops had probable cause based on this anonymous cell phone hang up call. I disagree. Normally in debates the burden of proof is on the positive, for example, if I say the moon is made of green cheese, it is my burden to prove that it is, it is not your burden to prove that it isn't.

But, I get the feeling none of that matters to you.

[youspeakmylanguage]

181. ...and good riddance. (n/t)

[cestpaspossible]

186. What are you rid of?

[LanternWaste]

247. burden of proof lies with the critic

I think that the burden of proof lies with the critic

Source: Sanders; Logic, Reason & Critical Thought.

[cestpaspossible]

302. The critic of what?

without the proper context and understanding, repeating other people's ideas is much like a parrot saying they want a cracker.

[youspeakmylanguage]

339. Good luck...

...trying to make any logical points on this thread. I think the Salem witch trials were more impartial.

[cestpaspossible]

350. What is the comment supposed to mean?

The burden is with the critic? The critic of what? If you want to talk logic, lets talk.

[djg21]

219. I think not.

It's a purely improper and incomplete hypothetical.

[cestpaspossible]

304. You think the original poster lied about what happened?

This isn't a hypothetical, it is a first hand account of events. Are you saying you don't believe the original poster?

[djg21]

345. response to your question.

I know that the original poster, whatever his/her motives, has an anti-police bias that is quite evident from the post itself. I would not be surprised if the poster's (and his/her "friend's") subjective account (or "spin") of events reflects that bias, and portrays the police officer in the worst possible light while at the same time protraying the poster's friend in the best possible light.

I also strongly suspect that the poster's friend was argumentative or belligerent with the police officer, who was merely trying to perform his job duties. The poster's friend's attitude towards police, as manifested in the initial post, makes me highly suspicious.

I take the account with a big grain of salt, and recognize that the police officer's subjective accounting of the events will be markedly different from that of the poster and her friend, and I recognize that since none of us were there, we will never know whether the account offered in the initial post was objectively truthful. Whether the post contains intentional falsehoods, or whether any such falsehoods were intended to advance a political agenda, I'll just never know for sure.

[cestpaspossible]

351. You really suspect the poster of intentional falsehoods?

Singularly ungracious of you but at least you are admitting that when you said this was a hypothetical, you were talking nonsense.

[William769]

163. Hi, it's nice to meet you youspeakmylanguage

About an hour ago I gave up. Some people just are not interested in the facts & it would seem to me would want to lump all Law Enforcement in one group, which is a shame.

[youspeakmylanguage]

170. It amazes me...

...the lengths some people here will go in order to trash law enforcement. I'm sure most of them are motivated by some personal vendetta.

I'm a part-time bouncer. Cops have helped me on the weekends more times than I can count.

When I was younger, I had bad run-ins with the police. And each time I was in the wrong, even if they sometimes overreacted or were overbearing. There are bad apples in every bunch.

I refuse to take unwarranted abuse from others posters here lying down.

[djg21]

216. Of course not!

Just bash the "cops"! This is pure bullshit.

God forbid the police didn't enter the home, and the initial poster ended up being seriously hurt at the hands of some home invader who had been hiding behind the door with a handgun. The poster no doubt would be bitching about the ineptitude of the police officers and threatening to bring some frivolous suit alleging failure to protect of some other nonsense. (Wasn't there a post on just this topic -- restraining orders-- last week?).

The officers were doing their job -- a very hard job -- and how much do you want to bet that the intial poster gave the officer lots of lip and attitude.

[William769]

225. Thank You Thank You Thank You.

[cestpaspossible]

311. PURE BS

[RobinA]

349. No, Not Pure BS

The cops here in Philadelphia in several recent cases have come under fire for not bashing the door down based on; once a cell phone text message, and once a reported scream. Both ended up being murders. In the case of the first murder, screams were reported by a neighbor, the police went out and heard nothing at all so they left. Woman was found murdered, police were blamed. I can only imagine if the police went around breaking doors down every time a scream was heard. THEN people here would be whining about jack-booted thugs. It's a fine line, and they aren't always going to get it right.

Frankly, if the police responded to my house to a fake 911 call I'd be a) grateful that they responded, b) worried that there was a real call somewhere going undiscovered.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

314. Interesting. Let's blame the citizen. Great idea.

[cestpaspossible]

356. Most police don't use the word 'citizen' very much.

Suspects and perps are all we are....

[moodforaday]

334. The question is

who are you more wary of - your potential "invader" or cops who can forcefully enter your house because of an anonymous cell-phone call (if you believe they were called in the first place).

If you can't refuse the let the cops into your house, even though they don't have a warrant and there is no emergency, you have a problem.

[djg21]

347. I don't know where you live . . .

but I am far more wary of a home invader with a handgun. If I was in the initial poster's shoes, I've be quite happy that the police arrived at my home quickly, to determine if I or a member of my family was in danger.

[cestpaspossible]

357. A cop who forces his way into your home when he has no right to do so

IS a home invader with a handgun.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

313. A cell phone will register the same information?

[hexola]

11. Its the crank who made the call that you (and they) should be after...

Someone could have screwed you good...glad it was all ok.

[William769]

51. Please see post #50.

[msongs]

41. link to your proof in florida/probable cause/911 call? n/t

edited subject line

[William769]

47. You may do your own homework.

I gave my professional opinion. If you disagree thats your business.

[Obamanaut]

62. I did a quick google

using "911 call probable cause to enter dwelling" got several thousand hits. I read 15 at random, they all seem to agree that a 911 call generated from an address is cause for warrant-less entry due to probable emergency. I did not check the remainder.

Because so many 911 dispatch screens show the address of the phone number being used, it is prudent to use the non-emergency number for the dispatch office to determine that your phone number and address match. Mistakes have been made. For three months after I got my second phone line, when I made calls the caller id on the receiving end showed the name of the person who previously had my new number.

[William769]

64. Sorry if I sounded terse earlier

All I did was comment on what I knew & it seemed like people didn't want to hear what I had to say.

[Obamanaut]

66. No apology needed here. I agree with you. nt

[cestpaspossible]

69. It's being totally wrong that's the problem.

nobody cares if you are terse.


" I read 15 at random, they all seem to agree that a 911 call generated from an address is cause for warrant-less entry due to probable emergency. I did not check the remainder."

But this was NOT a 911 call generated from the address, it came from a cell phone.

But try getting a FACT like that through the "Blue Wall of Silence"... good luck. :eyes:

[William769]

71. Well thats your opinion

And you know what they say about opinions.

ON EDIT: spelling

[cestpaspossible]

72. No, there is no probable cause in this case YOU ARE WRONG

You think if I call 911 with a cell phone, say I am at your residence and say there is an emergency, that therefore the police have probable cause to enter your residence?


Please try to back up that nonsensical position with something more than an assertion.

[William769]

75. When you have spent 15 years in Law Enforcement we'll talk

Other wise talk to the hand.

[cestpaspossible]

78. Brag all you want about your 'years', it won't change the facts.

If I call 911 on a cell phone and say I'm calling from your house, that does not give the police probable cause to enter your home.

[AX10]

87. You have 15 years in law "enforcement" and I have the Constitution.

I will take the US Constitution anyday over hearsay.

[cestpaspossible]

97. BRAVO!!

[AX10]

271. Thank you!

[SouthernDem2004]

131. Lol, give it up. You can give some people facts and tell them from

experience and they will still not listen.

I am still a Police Officer and we still do this all the time. You are correct that the Officer's attitude was uncalled for and should be reported if that was the actual conversation.


Peace

[cestpaspossible]

137. You forcibly enter homes based on anonymous reports of unspecified events?

Really? What jurisdiction is that?

[SouthernDem2004]

150. The United States of America.

Read up on exigent circumstances: http://www.lectlaw.com/def/e063.htm

The Officers were obligated to make sure there were no problems at the residence. We get ALOT of 911 hangups that turn out to be domestic assaults. I mean ALOT. That is why we go into the residence and check on the welfare of the occupants.

[cestpaspossible]

164. The abuse of exigent circumstances is the number 1 way corrupt cops

get away with their crimes.

[SouthernDem2004]

167. Any proof of that at all? What do you base that on? Anything? /nt

[cestpaspossible]

177. Just my opinion.. what's yours?

What do you think is the #1 way corrupt cops get away with their crimes?

[SouthernDem2004]

230. Easy answer...

Police Departments allow people to quit or fire them quietly after wrong doing is discovered. The agencies fear the bad press of exposing corrupt Officers. They never actually press charges against the criminal Officers.

I personally say bring on the bad press. It will instill fear into the corrupt Officers and make others think twice before they do something rash.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

289. Don't make me agree with you on this statement....

Both our heads may explode.

LOL :toast:

[cestpaspossible]

306. I see, there are NO CORRUPT COPS. LOL

I like when someone says something so blatantly ridiculous that it refutes itself.

[SouthernDem2004]

329. What are you talking about? Reread my post. You seem confused./nt

[SouthernDem2004]

330. You must be replying to someone else. I checked and you reply still makes

no sense.

[tx_dem41]

336. You're right. Somone did just say something "blatantly ridiculous"...

YOU did. Your post is one of the most blatantly ridiculous examples of either "failure to understand what one is reading" or "putting words into ones mouth" that I have ever read on DU. Congrats.

[atre]

220. This is absurd

No offense. I greatly respect officers. I really do. They perform an essential government service. But none of us know whether or not there was probable cause in this case. For anyone to suggest they do is patently ridiculous unless you know what information they were acting upon. The fact that a phone call was made is not always sufficient basis for probable cause. There are hundreds if not thousands of cases in which courts have held there was no probable cause depsite an anonymous tip. Read Aguilar, Gates, Draper, and Spinelli.

Probable cause when based on an anonymous tip is judged by a "totality of the circumstances test." One of the factors to be considered in making the determination of whether there is probable cause is the reliability of the person providing the tip.

[SouthernDem2004]

234. Your reply is off topic.

This was a 911 call. The Officers entered out of concern for the occupants. This issue has nothing to do with anonymous tips really. Also, the Officers only looked in areas a human could be hidden. This was not a search and is not considered a search.

[atre]

242. Wow. Are you sure you were a cop?

A search is defined by Katz to include any intrusion into an actual and objectively reasonable expectation of privacy, without regard to the officer's motives. Searching within someone's house is ALWAYS a "search" under the Fourth Amendment. The officers' motive might be relevant to an exception (such as hot pursuit) to the warrant or probable cause requirements, but it has no relevance whatsoever as to the question of whether a "search occurred."

The general rule with searches is that the officers must have probable cause and they must obtain a warrant. There are, of course, a number of exceptions to both general rules. But regardless, the question of whether the officers had probable cause (which is the issue I was addressing) IS fact-sensitive; you DO NOT know whether there is probable cause UNLESS you know what information the officers were acting upon.

The 911 call was an anonymous tip, by the way. It is the classic type of anonymous tip. It was the only basis on which the officers had any reason to enter the premises.

[SouthernDem2004]

253. Last time I checked I still am...

The fact is a 911 call such as mentioned in this post is sufficient. A warrant was not needed. Checking on an individuals welfare allows for entry. Sorry, but that is just the way it is. People may not like it but that does not change the fact that it is allowed and done daily.

[cestpaspossible]

310. Cops are not above the law.

" it is allowed and done daily " doesn't make something right, nor legal.

:puke:

[SouthernDem2004]

331. But it is legal. You may not like it but it is legal. /nt

[cestpaspossible]

353. Things aren't legal just because you say they are, thank God.

That's what courts are for.

[Sterling]

278. Cops don't really know shit.

Ask a NY cop about pretty much any law and they will give you a incomplete or outright wrong answer. You sound like a lawyer. You sight case law at least. Lawyers tend to know the law. Cops tend to know donuts.

[cestpaspossible]

312. They count on the ignorance of the citizenry, and force.

[cestpaspossible]

309. Are you sure you know what 'off-topic' means?

Because you haven't used it correctly here. You also, in my opinion, are not using the terms 'probable cause' or 'exigent circumstances' correctly.

They are not synonyms for 'carte blanche'.

[SouthernDem2004]

326. Yes, read the cases cited by the other poster and you will see why I

stated it was off topic. They are completely unrelated to a 911 call and a welfare check.

You are confused about PC and EC. EC gives PC. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but these are clearly defined terms. Check out Lectlaw for solid definitions.

[cestpaspossible]

352. I'm sorry but you simply haven't used these terms properly.

When someone know what a term means, they are able to use it in proper context.

Yes, they are clearly defined terms, that but stating that is not evidence of understanding those definitions, lol.

[xmas74]

256. I dispatch

and we do the same thing. We receive many 9-1-1 hangups. Many of them are domestics. When they answer the call the people answering at the door are not always forthcoming w/ the correct info. The officer usually comes in to assess the situation.
What would have happened if this had been a domestic, the officers had responded, took the word of the person who answered the door and then left? What if it had been a domestic and someone was killed? That would have made the papers nationwide and we all would have been bitching about how the officers did not respond properly.

Maybe their attitude wasn't the best in the world but it sounds like the situation was not handled well on either side.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

317. What's to keep an officer from falsifying a 911 report so that...

...he or she may enter a residence?

[SouthernDem2004]

328. It would be criminal to do so.

Police are humans. Humans lie, cheat and steal. Yes, there are corrupt Police. A corrupt Officer could falsify just about anything. Thats why you complain if something is done incorrectly.


Peace

[cestpaspossible]

358. Yeah but who'd tell? Wouldn't it be the cops word against the citizens?

In court, if a cop has a 'believable' story, and the citizen's story contradicts the cop, won't the jury almost always give the cop the benefit of the doubt? Not to mention the other cops and the prosecutor who'd have to be convinced before it ever got to court.

[djg21]

346. I'm shocked!

Someone is actually providing citations to court cases -- and US Sup. Ct. cases too -- to support their assertions regarding Constitutional law. This must be a first on DU. :sarcasm:

It amazes me just how ridiculous DU can be at times. :puke:

But of course, the Supreme Court is just wrong!

[youspeakmylanguage]

151. An emergency call to 911 is an "anonymous reports of unspecified report"?

If your house ever catches on fire or someone breaks in and holds you hostage, let's hope someone responds quickly to your "anonymous reports of unspecified events".

[cestpaspossible]

157. Did you even bother to read the original post?

Officer John tells me they got a 911 hang up call from a cell phone. The caller gave my address and phone number.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4130139&mesg_id=4130139

Anonymous as in they don't know who called.

Unspecified events as in they don't what, if anything, happened.

:eyes:

[youspeakmylanguage]

160. Right - someone in an emergency or victimized always has time to talk...

...and report the details of a situation. It's not like someone being held hostage might not be able to talk aloud when his/her captor is in another room.

Hell, I think if my house ever catches fire, I'll write a 3 page letter to the fire department describing the situation and attaching a hand-drawn map to my house.

:rofl:

[cestpaspossible]

171. I see you are not interested in the facts of this particular case, either.

your fantasy hypotheticals seem to matter more to you than what actually happened.

[youspeakmylanguage]

176. And you're ignoring the real-world consequences...

...of what would happen if the police refused to aggressively pursue 911 hang-ups.

[cestpaspossible]

182. Actually no. That is not true.

[TriMetFan]

297. Tell that to my spouse the 911 dispatcher who had to hear

a 9 year old girl begging for help on the phone she was using in a closet because daddy was going around shooting every one in the home. Then all my spouse hear was the door open and the little girl begging dad not to shot her too. My spouse end up hearing the gun shot that killed the girl and then the ass hole killed himself. So you see people do have time to call for help.:mad:

[cestpaspossible]

308. Which has absolutely no relationship to the case we are talking about.

BTW, did you ever consider that perhaps people who can't handle dealing with traumatic events shouldn't be 911 operators?

[youspeakmylanguage]

338. I'm sorry your wife had to experience that...

...but how does that prove that sometimes people in dire straits don't have time to do anything more than dial 911 and hang up?

[Rich Hunt]

198. if you're house is on fire...

Wouldn't it be obvious to the police who were responding?

And if you were held hostage, why would you answer the door when you called 911?

Please try logic next time you try to obfuscate matters.

If the disingenuousness doesn't stop, I'm going to post the original story ten or more times in response to this thread.

Because it's clear people are "getting nervous" about the real point to this story, and they are flooding the thread to distract people.

[Ms. Toad]

294. A different real life perspective...

"And if you were held hostage, why would you answer the door when you called 911?"

Because the person holding me hostage overheard me make the 911 call, forced me to hang up before I could provide any details, then forced me to answer the door to get rid of the police without raising their suspicions.

If you don't think this happens, try hanging around a rape crisis center or battered woman's shelter for a while.

[Rich Hunt]

299. oh thanks

'cos I've never been around one, and you know that...how, exactly?

And why would a hostage victim come to the door all sleepy-like, as if she'd just been napping.

Whatever happened to common sense?

[youspeakmylanguage]

337. Posting ten times or more would be spamming the board...

...and, although I've never been held hostage in my own house before, I understand that sometimes a gun or knife is held to a person's head and they're told by their assailant, "Tell whoever it is at the door to go away or I'll kill you."

But hey, I'm just ignoring logic in order to obfuscate matters.

[youspeakmylanguage]

141. Don't let the haters here get you down...

Some people on DU are so ingrained to hate the police and law enforecement in general that they'll use any excuse to attack them.

Thank you for your service to your community. I'm sure the people whose lives and property you helped save are appreciative enough to make up for the shrill naysayers on this thread. They'll wish they had someone competent on the end of the line when an emergency happens.

[SouthernDem2004]

155. Oh, The anti-Police types do nto bother me. They are entitled to their

opinions.

It is unfortuante that some deny the actual facts of law but they are the only ones that will suffer. I certainly wish them the best.

[cestpaspossible]

192. The anti-citizen types among the police do bother me, though.

Only a few 'bad apples' of course -- it couldn't have anything to do with the brutal nature of the job, the corrupting influence of power, the poor training, inadaquate mental health support structures and almost total lack of citizen oversight...

Nah, don't worry about that stuff, just keep blaming a few bad apples, and eventually there will be no bad apples left... right?

[SouthernDem2004]

228. I never mentioned anything of the sort. /nt

[cestpaspossible]

305. What are you talking about? What is it that you never said?

Hello?

[SouthernDem2004]

332. I never mentioned a few bad apples. Your post seldom make sense. /nt

[cestpaspossible]

354. Well the police who are hostile to the citizenry do bother me.

Perhaps you think they don't exist, perhaps there is just no problem, or perhaps you are just to close to the problem to see it.

I mean, according to Rumsfeld, there is no prisoner abuse... because he says that, does it make it so?

[TriMetFan]

296. AMen to that.

[RetroLounge]

201. Sorry, being a Crossing Guard does not count

as 15 years in law enforcement.

RL

[William769]

206. If you had bothered to read the posts

You would have saw that I was a State Trooper. Your oneliner falls on deaf ears.

[RetroLounge]

211. Except yours. You seemed to hear. And respond

funny that...

RL

[atre]

222. That is uncalled for

It's possible to respectfully disagree with someone.

[RetroLounge]

223. Oh, yeah, he's a cop because he said so...

I trust all newbies on the internets...

Sorry. No proof from him, no respect from me.

But thanks for caring...

RL

[atre]

229. Retro

In my experience, police officers do tend to be poorly trained as to the contours of the Fourth Amendment. I'm sure there are hundreds of violations of constitutional rights by officers every day.

Plus, I see no reason for anyone to volunteer that information if it wasn't true.

And anyway, in my experience, people tend to give your arguments more weight if you treat theirs and them with respect.

[RetroLounge]

231. "I see no reason for anyone to volunteer that information"

Oh, come on... Really?

There are a group of posters here on DU who troll for Police-related threads and defend anything a cop does.

Anything. Many of them are here in this thread.

You know, regardless of whether the cops had cause in this case, saying sorry goes a hell of a long way to smoothing things over instead of looking like asshats. But these cops in particular feel they had the right to be all big and bad. Well, I hope this gets escalated.

RL

[SouthernDem2004]

240. Lol, there is also an anti-Police group that does the same.

Also, its not so much as troll as that other topics are of little interest at times.

Take me for instance. I am not into conspiracy theories so I do not post in those. I agree with alot of the post in the politics forums but do not feel the need to post a "me too" message, atleast not often. I do not speculate on 2008, its to early. I am ignorant to an extent on economics so I stay out of those. Heck, I basicly post about what I know which is LE.

[RetroLounge]

241. Hey! Stop making so much sense

or I may need to start respecting you...

:hi:

RL

[Media_Lies_Daily]

315. Do you believe the hijackers were part of a conspiracy to launch....

...attacks on 911?

Do you believe Lincoln' assassin was part of a larger conspiracy?

Do you believe the Iran-Contra participants were part of a conspiracy?

Do you believe the participants in Watergate were part of a conspiracy?

Do you believe the plotters of the 1930s coup attempt against FDR were part of a conspiracy?

Do you believe that the people who lied to us about the reasons to invade Iraq were part of a conspiracy?

In your 15 years of law enforcement you never encountered a conspiracy to break one or more laws?

Tell us again how you feel about "conspiracy theories".

[SouthernDem2004]

325. You seem confused...

Clearly I was speaking of the conspiracy theories frequently posted on DU.

Also, I clear stated theories not actual known and proven conspiracies. Please look up the definition of theory.

Peace

[youspeakmylanguage]

340. You hit the nail on the head, but you got the facts backwards...

There is a cabal of anti-law enforcement posters that troll for any thread in which to trash the police.

[cestpaspossible]

355. What are their names?

Could you point out one of the posts where these 'trolls' 'trashed the police' please?

Thanks in advance.

[AX10]

265. Police (municipal police) are poorly trained as a whole.

8 months at the academy is not enough. They should also learn about pyscology and details about the law too.

It's not their fault, it's just the system.

[cestpaspossible]

359. BINGO. More and better training, more citizen oversight,

and most importantly, ONGOING training and counseling... this is a necessary, difficult, soul-destroying job. I think it is criminal that we don't provide the necessary resources to the police.

[davsand]

260. How would they know where a call was made if it was on a cell?

Wouldn't it take more than hang up to lock on and triangulate any cell signal?

If a call was made on a cell phone it could be made from ANY location at all--not just a home address (hence the idea of MOBILE phones!) Seems to me there is something odd about all of this...

On a personal note, I have found that cops are no different than the rest of the population--both good and negative.

The one thing about being on force, however, is that 98% of the time nobody EVER wants to see you. They either are in trouble and need help and that just sucks, or else they are doing something and got busted. Either way--being a cop is never easy.

I agree that bad behavior and rudeness needs to be reported to the watch commander, and I also agree that it is a real B*&^H to run into a cop with attitude.


Laura

[noiretextatique]

105. the call was not generated from her address

it was a cell phone. not sure if that is still probable cause.

[MindPilot]

213. how do you know?

a GPS-enabled cell phone within 10 or 15 feet of the home would would've placed it at that addrss.

[noiretextatique]

287. well, the person said so per the original post

and i think the POINT was: she did not place the call, unless of course you believe she's lying. and, since the call could have been made 10-20 feet away from her address, it's possible the police had the WRONG address. that's not exactly unheard of...it happens on occasion.

[atre]

199. Probable cause is fact-sensitive

Just because there are a handful of evanescent evidence cases where the court holds there was probable cause under the circumstances to respond to a 911 call does not mean that is true of every such case.

[William769]

208. I agree with you 100% on your Statement

The problem is "probable cause is such a grey area, alot of times it's up to the courts to decide. But going to the original post I still believe that they had probable cause with the information supplied.

[Pepperbelly]

263. Once ... back in 1998 ...

when my Mom was busy dying from cancer, she collapsed one day in the bathroom. My grown children and I were there and I checked on her, then went to call 911, leaving my kids with her. After I had made the call and the phone was ringing, my kids shouted for me and I hung up and ran to check on her again.

It was very bad and we feared she was dying then and there.

I held her and asked one of the kids to call 911. As my son left to make the call in the kitchen, the doorbell rang. It was the city police.

My son opened the door and said, 'thank God. Call an ambulance."

The cop came in, then got on his radio. Two or three minutes later, the EMTs were here.

:shrug:

I understand the privacy and S & S questions but sometimes, it's pretty damned helpful.

[Kraklen]

Probable cause to be an asshole?

I hope in the years you served as a police officer you showed a little more respect to the people you swore to serve and respect.

[William769]

55. I can assure you that I did.

I'm Gay & a liberal (what else would you expect from someone like that). I was a State Trooper not a Police Officer.

[cestpaspossible]

84. I don't think being gay and liberal is any shield

against the corrupting influence of power.

[atre]

224. Let's try to tone it down here

[cestpaspossible]

360. What are you talking about? Power corrupts, even if you are gay or liberal

It's human nature.

[TriMetFan]

That what I was going to say too.

As a ex-cop these guys did have probable cause. There could have been some one there and even if your friend kept on saying that there was no one there how are they to know that your friend didn't call on the cell phone then hung up because she was scared of the bad guy/girl. The criminal could have been hiding in the house. The only different thing I would have done was said: " I sorry but there seams to have been a mistake, but everything is find."
If I was you, you should ask your friend if some one hates her to have made this prank call.

[atre]

196. To search a house, you generally must first obtain a warrant

Probable cause alone is not enough.

Of course, consent to the search would validate the search, but the Bustamante test for "consent" doesn't appear satisfied after repeated negative responses and an aggressive demeanor.

[djg21]

226. I'm sure you're aware of the exceptions . . .

to the requirement for a warrant then? Perhaps you could enlighten us as to those that are applicable in this instance? If you're a lawyer, perhaps a Lexis or Westlaw searche for "warrant" and "entry"
and "exigent circumstances" and "danger"? If you're not a lawyer, you shouldn't be giving bad, and incorrect legal advice.

[atre]

233. I'm not going to waste my time detailing the exceptions

to the warrant requirement for searches to a part-time bouncer, but I can assure you that the "hot pursuit" and "evanescent evidence" exceptions are much narrower than many people here seem to think. Buy yourself a copy of LaFave on Criminal Procedure if you want fuller treatment.

I'm also terribly sorry you don't understand the meaning of the word "generally."

No, I'm not a lawyer, by the way. But I have graduated law school and I am taking the bar examination next Tuesday. I think that qualifies me over a part-time bouncer, though, wouldn't you say?

[djg21]

243. Perhaps you should keep studying.

BTW, I am not a bouncer. In fact, I do have a law degree, and I actually passed a bar exam (albeit a long time ago). Moreover, as I have extensive experience as a prosecutor and a defense attorney, I am pretty familiar with both civil and criminal procedure, and more importantly, with constitutional law.

If your posts on this thread are any indication, you should spend less time on DU and more time with your nose in the books. Otherwise, you'll be studying for the bar well after July.

[atre]

245. Funny how people can say anything on the internet

The fact that you referred to what is referred to in law school as "criminal procedure" as "constitutional law" says volumes.

You're a prosecutor/ defense attorney by day and a bouncer by night???... Anything else we should know about your remarkably bizzare resume?

[djg21]

262. Sorry . . .You have the wrong guy.

I haven't worked in a bar since I graduated from college in the early '80s. Moreover, you are misquoting me. I never suggested that criminal procedure and constitutional law are the same thing (despite some necessary overlap). And, last I checked, the Fourth Amendment (i.e., unreasonable searces and seizures), which is implicated here, is in fact an Amendment to the United States Constitution. Like I said, you better hit those books.

[atre]

293. If you had graduated from law school...

you would have known that the Fourth Amendment is taught in Criminal Procedure, not Constitutional Law. But you didn't, so your ignorance can be overlooked. While in the real world "criminal procedure" encompasses more than the constitution (such as statutory procedure), that is not how things are taught in the ivory towers of law schools. So what do you really do? Are you a cop?

I don't know why the hell you get jollies personally attacking people over the internet for no reason, and I'm glad to know that your claims to be a practicing attorney are untruthful, because I would hate to think that anyone like yourseld be practicing law.

By the way, I performed in the 95th percentile nationally on Barbri's Simulated MBE, and I consider myself well-prepared for the essay portion, so I think I'll be fine. Thanks for the concern. Also by the way, if you had taken a bar exam, you might know that Criminal Procedure accounts for 10 questions, at most, on the MBE, and one question, at most, on the essay portion of the bar. But you didn't, so you can be forgiven on that point.

[Name removed]

335. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Guaranteed]

209. It was an unreliable tip.

Doesn't there also have to be some kind of exigent circumstances to enter someone's home without a warrant or consent?

[ovidsen]

4. And cops wonder why they have bad reps.

The police, responding to a report of a crime in progress probably (I emphasize probably) had a right to scope out the home. More than one victim has told police "nobody's here" when the somebody who WAS there was being very threatening.

But the doofus cop could have still offered an apology. What an arrogant butthead.

[AX10]

45. This is why I am not sympathetic when cops beg for more weapons.

and that stupid "Officers Bill Of Rights". If the SOB had a taser, the poster would have hurt. This is Facsism. :argh:

Cops need to do their job but there must be restraints damn it!

:grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr:

[alarimer]

252. They were rude assholes

She said there was nothing wrong. that should have been enough.

[leveymg]

6. They had no right to look into drawers.

If they were doing this as a pretext search, the plain-sight rule applies. Anything they might find that is hidden would be illegally-obtained evidence. Once inside, they have a right to determine that there's no one there who might be a threat to them (or you).

I really don't understand why they didn't apologize. Sounds like badly-trained officers.

As for his forcing the door open with his body, I understand why he did it. There was no way for them to know who you were and what you might be hiding inside, until they looked around and checked your ID to see if you really were the occupant. Probably not illegal for him to enter by force of will, given that you or someone inside might be in real danger.

Unpleasant experience, but I'd let it go.

[Jersey Devil]

22. snoopy nature of cops almost always makes them do that

I had a case once where the landlord called the cops so he could go in an apt where the toilet was running and they rummaged through drawers finding some pot, which the court through out on a motion to suppress.

They saw a photo or sketch of cannabis on the wall and the next thing you knew they were looking everywhere.

[shance]

37. Snoopy nature can result in theft of your own property from anyone.

Laws are on the books for a REASON.

Letting laws casually be overlooked is when laws can be broken, from anyone and/or any side.

[HEyHEY]

147. Why so stand-offish with them?

If cops had come to my place saying "We received a 911 call from here" I'd say, "sure take a look."
They're just responding to a call.

[ret5hd]

166. that is very similar to the "if you've got nothing to hide...

why not let them see your (pick one or all):
credit card bills
library records
travel records

etc etc etc.

[HEyHEY]

183. I don't think in this case that applies

If they got a 911 call from your house they are bound to attend. And instead of being on the offensive and making them suspicious just let em look around. For all they know you've got someone tied up in the basement. Think of the alternative.... someone says, "No one here called." And the cops say, "okay sorry to disturb you."
When in reality one of the women being held captive in the hole in the basement was the one who phoned.

[ret5hd]

204. the current situation, tho...

is a (supposed) cell-phone call from someone that (supposedly) gave the persons address.

as was stated elsewhere upstream, hell all they've got to do to search your place is whip out a cell-phone...damn the search warrants.

[MindPilot]

221. not quite -- I forget the legal term but they have to conduct

a reasonable search. In other words if they are looking for a person as they would in a 911 call, a look in the closet is reasonable. A Rifling through dresser drawers is not.

If they see the bong because it's out there on the coffee table, well, that's why you need to keep that shit put away.

[Guaranteed]

210. GREAT point. THAT was WAY out of line. nt

[Media_Lies_Daily]

318. Well, heck...the person who made that cell-phone call may have...

...been in one of those drawers, don't you know!

[noamnety]

8. Can you get a transcript of the 911 call?

Ordinarily, they are considered a matter of public record. I would ask for a copy of the transcript, as well as the cell phone number and person the line is registered to.

If they made a prank call to 911, they could (and should) be liable for criminal charges.

I think I'd be more concerned about that aspect than the police behavior. If they can't produce a transcript with a date and time, then I would question whether they have some harrassment campaign going on in your friend's area - they've got one running in New London, police bullying their way into people's houses without a warrant, with no charges, all hours of the day and night.

[shance]

14. I think that's a great idea.

I hope your friend won't allow this to blow over. There needs to be record of what occured and it would be best if she would pursue this to find out what happened and why the police allowed themselves in her house.

[Orrex]

24. And is it possible to get some corroboration from the scene?

I am reluctant to doubt your friend's account, but I am leery of long, from-memory transcripts, especially when they so clearly favor the reporting party, complete with ALL CAPS embellishment of certain dramatically SATISFYING moments.

I also don't dispute that some cops are just power-tripping assholes who need a good dose of people skills, but we can't objectively assess these cops from the account at hand.

All we can conclude is that your friend likely endured a bit of hassle that should have preferred to avoid.

But I wonder what her reaction would have been if she'd had a gun to her head and the cops had said simply "You didn't call? Have a nice day, ma'am. Goodbye."

[AX10]

89. Those few cops who are power hungry don't need to learn...

anything, they need to be fired.

[gman16]

10. In NJ

They have to enter the dwelling if there has been a call placed to 911.

[Jersey Devil]

13. What law says that?

We have no idea what the call was to 911 or even if there really was one. If it was a domestic violence call then you'd be right but otherwise they'd need a warrant.

[Corgigal]

132. plenty of domestic calls

come in as 911 hang up calls. We try to call back and no one picks up, even then we respond to the house. Do you know why they have to come in and check it out? People have died when they didn't.

I worked at the Tampa 911 center for 10 years. It's a high priority call.

[sendero]

98. That makes perfect sense..

.... IF AND ONLY IF the 911 system is one of the modern ones that auto log the location and the call was not from a cell phone.

Otherwise, police wanting to look inside an house without having probably cause would need to simply place a bogus 911 call from a cell phone or whatever and they're in.

[Jersey Devil]

12. Go listen to the 9-11 call or have your lawyer demand they produce it

If it does not exist or they went to the wrong address sue their asses off.

[hexola]

23. Since it was a cell phone and someone gave your address...

...thats really bad...malicious...

For an typicall 911 call - you don't even have to say anything...the police will just show up...as they did recently when my 18 month old granddaughter called 911...

[Jersey Devil]

27. All calls are recorded along with the caller id

If someone was playing a prank they should have no problem finding out who

[msongs]

39. call the local media, hold a press conference, call the ACLU...

you have been violated by the gestapo like police in your area. get all the confirming data you can get from the local police department (fat chance) and city council etc. File some complaints. there are probably others who have been attacked as you have been.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[SlavesandBulldozers]

126. that's what I'd do

i'd raise hell. And I would get a very aggressive lawyer and start suing the fuck out of people. And im not kidding.

[leveymg]

25. What's the point of suing? They didn't hurt her or destroy anything.

You can't sue the cops just because they were impolite. That's something to take up with the shift commander or the public affairs office.

Your lawyer will probably tell you the same thing.

[Jersey Devil]

31. They touched her - battery - and they scared her - emotional distress

See how you like waking up and having a bunch of burly cops invade your home.

[leveymg]

36. Sorry, doesn't sound like not a winning case.

With all real sympathy for her -- that was a scary experience -- and appreciation for the people offering her advise. :hi:

[Jersey Devil]

43. I didn't say it was a winning case, just suggesting it, however, might

bring some action and maybe an apology.

Personally, they way I'd handle it is to make an appointment to speak to some police brass, explain what happened to them, ask to hear the tape and if a 911 call was made ask for help in finding the prankster. I'd like to think that the higher ups would produce the cops involved and have them tell the woman they were sorry for being so brusque.

[leveymg]

56. Threatening to sue might just send this to the PA office.

An apology is more likely to come if she were to personally call the station house and ask to speak with Joe. As calmly as possible, she might want to tell him that she felt bullied by him, and say she was frightened and annoyed by the experience, particularly what he said about not having to apologize.

If he has an ounce of grace and humanity, he'll probably sigh and apologize to her. That should take care of the matter. If Joe's rude or doesn't return her call, I'd escalate it -- make a call to the watch commander. He should be, at the very least, gracious and apologetic. That's about as far as it goes, I'm afraid.

[Jersey Devil]

70. Your advice seems sound

I often react by shooting from the hip. That's why I follow the advice of the first secretary I ever had by putting really nasty correspondence in the drawer overnight and then looking at it the next day after with cooler emotions before deciding whether to send it.

Likely, as you say, if the brass have any brains they will do the right thing.

[noiretextatique]

110. she tried talking to him

i think she'd have better luck talking to his superior.

[atre]

203. Battery will get you nominal damages ($1)

There's no emotional distress unless you can prove distress and show the defendant's conduct was "extreme and outrageous," beyond all bounds of decency in a civilized society.

You may have a claim for something, but the damages aren't worth pursuing.

[AX10]

275. True that there may be no financial damages. But the cop should..

be on file as to how he acted. In the future, the same cop may step way over the line. It's good to have a complaint of file.

[Drifter]

15. That's a tough one ...

First of all the Officers have a point.

Whenever there is 911 hangup, they have to respond. My daughter (10 yo at the time) found out the hard way, when she dialed 911, and hung up when the operator answered. The police showed up, and a valuable lesson was learned.

Now in your case, 911 was called TO your house (from a cell phone), and not FROM your house. Slightly different matter, but the police still must follow this to the end (in the case as he said, that there is a gun pointed at your head).

It sounds like officer Joe was certinaly being a DICK well beyond the call of duty. He should have apologized (even a shallow non meaning Sorry Ma'am), as a friendly gesture.

Seems to me that the officers should have focused their attention on the 911 call itself. Because both your phone number and address were given, either it is someone screwing with you, or you hit the lotto (someone picked a random person in the Phonebook, and you won).

I wouldn't let it bother you, but I certainly would file a complaint about the rather harsh treatment you received after it was obvious that you did not make the call.

Cheers
Drifter

[SeattleGirl]

59. Why didn't the 911 operator call her back first?

I'm asking because I once had an opportunity to go to the main 911 center in Seattle and observe. Each desk had caller ID so the number of the caller would show up. If someone hung up, the operator would call them back right away to try and find out why the caller hung up. If they did not get a response, THEN they would send the police out, but they did not automatically do that, because sometimes, as in your example, kids call 911 then hang up. And, the operator I was sitting by told me it was unbelievable how many pets "call" 911 if it is speed-dialed into the phone. The pet (usually a cat) walks over the phone, knocks the receiver off, and inadvertently pushes the 911 speed-dial button. The owner finds the phone off the hook and hangs up without checking to see if there is anyone on the other end of the line. When the 911 operator calls them to check on the call, the pet owners are usually rather shocked (not to mention very embarassed!). But, I know laws are different in different states, so maybe it is standard procedure to always send cops out where this woman lives -- but it should also be standard protocol for police to not act like jerks like these guys did, AND to explain why they had to come inside. That could have gone a long way toward calming this woman down.

As to looking in drawers, etc., what's up with that? What were they looking for -- the Munchkins and the 7 Dwarfs? Looking in rooms is understandable if they think someone might be there, but drawers and cabinets? Seems a bit of a stretch (not to mention illegal search) to me.

[RPM]

16. contact a lawyer

and get those motherfuckers

[SlavesandBulldozers]

128. amen

nt

[RaleighNCDUer]

17. You got off lucky.

You were so obviously hostile, I'm surprised they didn't tazer you.

[screembloodymurder]

63. Me too.

You blocked the door, you were sleepy, you should have been tazered into a fully awakened state. You're lucky to be alive my friend.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

129. hahahah

exactly.

[minerva50]

18. Don't think you can do anything.

They were rude, but they had reason to come in.

My mom's phone went nuts one time. I got a call from her number at 2 AM one morning, I answered it and there was no-one there. When I tried to call her back,it apparently rang and rang with no answer. I worried about what was going on, finally called my brother who lived down the street from her and asked him to check on her. I found out the phone was calling on its own and it had also called 911, so the cops showed up at her door at 2:00 AM. It was one of those programmable, mobile phones.

[shance]

30. I don't believe they did.

It was 12:00 in the afternoon. They could have seen she'd been napping. If there was something funny, then they could have gone from there.

I believe the questions could have been asked outside and then if they were still skeptical then perhaps they could have asked her if they could have gone in. Technically there needs to be a reason to enter one's house. There was no specific reason cited, which makes the whole situation weird.

[Jersey Devil]

32. You are assuming the 911 call was legit

They could very well have been at the wrong address.

[AX10]

33. Did the cops harrass her though, that is the question.

This happened to me once and the two officers were very polite. Confused, yes, but polite. It was cleared up quickly.

[notadmblnd]

19. file a complaint with the PD against Officer Joe

what he did was highly illegal. 911 has been accidently been call by my phone too and the police never behaved like that. They told me they had received a call and were stopping by to see if all was ok. the police were polite and left when I assured them everything was fine. Once was around christmas and me and the kids were decorating the tree and the other time was in the middle of the night, when we were sleeping.. both times the police were nothing less than professional.

If you file a complaint at the PD it may not come to anything, but it will be in Officer Bobs record and if his behavior becomes even more unprofessional with someone else. It could make a big difference to that person when it happens to them.

[cynatnite]

20. My kid played with the phone...dialled 911 and hung up

The cops showed up and were very nice. They can do that I found out.

These guys were just assholes. I would report them and tell exactly what happened to whoever is in charge.

They have to investigate hang-up calls from what I've been told.

[knitter4democracy]

52. Mine too

The officer who came to the door was nicer than nice, very respectful, and was even worried that I was being told what to say, lowering his voice and whispering, "Are you answering for yourself. Can you talk freely?" When I put it all together and called my son over--who still had the phone in his hand--he figured it out, too, came in (I asked him to), and gave my kids stickers, explaining when to call the cops and when not to.

I can't imagine that kind of behavior from any of the cops around here.

[fujiyama]

323. Similar thing happened at home

My mom accidentally dialed 911 while intending to dial an area code in TX (which was 901 or something like that).

Anyways, the officer came by, asked if anyone dialed 911, if there were any problems, and once my mom told the officer what happened, he was nice about it and left.

[theHandpuppet]

327. And just what did you tell little Junior?

Calling 911 is not a joke, just as pulling a fire alarm is not a joke. I hope your kid got a serious reprimand FROM YOU. I'm glad the cops who showed up at your house were nice, but I'm afraid I would not have been so polite. Fortunately, I'm not a cop at everyone's beck and call and putting my ass on the line every day, wondering whether the next call I get will be one where my life could be snuffed out by some drunk or drugged out crazoid with a gun.

With regard to the situation as outlined by the thread author, the cops who answered that 911 call had no idea who might have placed it -- or why the guy was so reluctant to allow them in. A battered woman or child might have placed the call when the guy was asleep (only a hypothetical) and someone's life could be threatened. There's no way they could have gauged what the situation was and being cooperative is the quickest way to resolve the situation. I had a similar thing happen to me and my partner (someone in the neighborhood mistakenly placed a call to our house) and a little mutual respect goes a long way.

I'd have to see an actual transcript of this exchange and the 911 call before I'd engage in another round of DU cop-bashing.

[mtnester]

21. ID first, then confirm, then open door

If they bust in they bust in, but there have been a rash of home invasions with people posing as impostors lately in our area. What if that had been a ruse with fake uniforms, etc?

She should have asked for badges, then asked if she can call ID in, or better YET, she should have called 911 and stated you had uniform officers at your door and were not sure if they were legitimate if they would not do that...this could have been straightened out.

As a woman, home alone or not, I would not have opened the door. I would have dialed 911.

Most 911 operators would have called the house back ASAP if they got a 911 hang up, even if it was from a cell phone...That is SOP....something fishy here.

[Rich Hunt]

152. that's what I said, too

It could well have been an imposter....the behavior was just so unprofessional.

[MindPilot]

26. This happened to me -- you probably have a problem with your phone

Mine came at three in the morning. When I walked--staggered and stumbled actually--down the hall I saw a flashlight beam sweep across the living room wall. I just drew a breath to yell, "honey bring my gun!!" and heard "Open up--police!"

I opened the door and the cop didn't attempt come in probably because I was restraining 120 pounds of ferociously barking Irish Wolfhound. He told me there had been a 911 call from this address. I told him there hadn't and asked for the phone number. When he told me I realized that was from a data line, a previous roommate had and apparently hadn't turned off. The officer--I think not wanting to deal with the dog and satisfied with my explanation went on his way.

As it turned out there was a short in that line caused by a recent rain that looked like a hang-up 911 call to the phone system.

Cops and firefighters take a 911 hang-ups very seriously and because of the potential that life or property are in jeopardy have probable cause to enter forcibly if necessary.

Yes, the cop could've been a little nicer, but look at it from his perspective; he could be walking into the middle of a very dangerous situation.

[shance]

34. They could have seen from the moment she opened the door ,

there wasnt going to be any problem. Perhaps that's why Joe was pretty invasive and bullying to begin with.

[MindPilot]

102. I think the fact that she was reluctant to open the door

aroused their suspicions. As another poster had pointed out you can easily see the cop's POV if you play a little "what if?"

What if a panicked and confused neighbor made the call and her drunken abusive husband was hiding in a closet? What if while the woman was standing at door as a kidnapper held a child at gunpoint? "if those cops come in; the kid gets it". Cops have to deal with that kind of shit day in and day out and they would be the ones to pay for the mistake if any of those horrible scenarios would've been the case and they'd have walked away with a jaunty "have a nice day ma'am".

So they may have been assholes about it, but they were erring on the side of your safety and theirs.

[Rich Hunt]

189. um, you didn't read the story, either

Asking to have a look around because of a 911 call is one thing - being a bully about it (pushing, not listening, etc.) is quite another. I love how all of these posters distort the original story. This happens quite often on DU - when an "inflammatory" topic is posted, the thread is flooded to the point where people are responding to each other and not referencing the original post.

Sorry, but I read the whole story. Don't know about you.

Love how many apologists for a police state there are on this thread.

This was either harassment by an imposter, or a cop who was insensitive and unprofessional to boot.

[MindPilot]

232. Apparently in reading th entire story, you missed this part

Both of my feet are on the porch past the threshold. My door handle is in my hand. I try to close the door behind me. But was unable to because Officer Joe was pushing on it to prevent it from closing. He also refused to move so that I could get onto the porch any further. He is pushing my door so I can’t close it. And is in my face. Pushing my door open.

The police have an anonymous hang-up 911 from that address which gives them reason to suspect a crime against a person is in progress, and the occupant of said address is physically restricting their entry. What part of probable cause do you not get?

And I doubt if anybody on DU is an "apologist for a police state". That was a cheap shot and you know it; a retraction is in order.

[Rich Hunt]

291. hardly

It sure didn't sound to me like the "friend" was "blocking access". The police have to give reason, and not barge their way in.

According to some people's arguments, if the police merely suspect there is an axe murderer or child rapist hiding in the closet, they have grounds to enter. If you ask questions, you are now "blocking".

Apologies for a police state? You bet. As I've said, I personally have not witnessed police behaving this way in response to a 911 call, especially when it is a "hang-up call".

Theoretically, a bad police officer could get someone to make the call himself, then barge in to someone's house.

[KCS72000]

28. I question this line;

"Officer John tells me they got a 911 hang up call from a cell phone. The caller gave my address and phone number."

[Mojorabbit]

29. This happened to me in Fl

The cop was uptight and pushed his way in. When I saw him at the door I almost had a heart attack thinking something had happened to my hubby.I told him I had not made any calls and was watching a movie.

He asked if he could look around and I said sure. He relaxed. Turns out that my phone had somekind of short and was somehow dialing 911.
It happened three more times during the night and we got it fixed in the am. Though the cops knew it was a phone line problem they had to respond each time.

[TreasonousBastard]

35. A very similar thing happened in my city recently...

and made the papers. The abusive cop is being investigated.

And, like this one, it started as a reasonable call for the cops but one of them got nasty when they realized there was nothing there. His supervisor was there and did a little to calm things down, but had to back his officer while on the scene.

Your friend should file a complaint with whoever it is complaints are filed in that town.

[AX10]

42. would you mind giving us details?

I am sorry to hear this.

[TreasonousBastard]

46. I'd have to dig out the article to be any more specific...

and I don't know if it's online.

[TreasonousBastard]

57. OK, I found it...

http://www.nj.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news-0/1121316884302120.xml?starledger?nun&coll=1

[AX10]

82. Thank You. My Condolences.

[AX10]

38. This is why I oppose that myth know as the "Officers Bill Of Rights".

Why is it that police can do things like this without punishment, but still they cry that their rights are being trampled on in court?!? :wtf:? It's bullshit. So if someone makes a cell-phone call that your house is in danger, that should be reason enough for them to use force against you. Christ, they could also use that GD Terror (taser) gun. It is unjust. You sir, were terrorised by the Cops.


Police work is not easy(stressful), but that does not give them the right to treat us like this.

[MindPilot]

48. Let's get the terminology straight -- cops don't have "rights"

As police officers--acting as agents of the government--they have powers. Those powers are limited by the rights of individual citizens.

[AX10]

54. Please clarify.

How do we control unruly police?

[MindPilot]

86. Not sure what you are asking but I'm going to take a guess

just what I said in the previous post; limit their power through the laws and rules of conduct. It's a balance between government power and citizens' rights. The government doesn't grant rights, we the people already have them. One of the rights we have is to allow our government just enough power to protect our rights.

[AX10]

90. How do we get those laws past?

Too many political types are in the business of being elected. What can I do?

[MindPilot]

169. The trick is to keep the ones we have

number one here would be to repeal the Patriot Act followed by decriminalizing drugs.

But I think this subject is taking this thread a bit adrift.

[Stinky The Clown]

40. I see two sides to this ... and some right and some wrong .....

First off, I am not a cop, have never been one and am no apologist for police thuggery in any way, shape or form.

With that said, here's how this strikes me .......

They got a 911 call to that address. The cell call was a hang up. For the moment, let's assume that to all be true.

It seems to me that they need to open the door to make sure the woman who answered was not saying everything was okay while having a gun trained on her. I see that as a reasonable action by the police. They need to be absolutely certain there is no threat. Can you imagine if they had NOT done this and then the poor woman was raped or robbed or shot? The very people who might condemn the police for overzealousness would be condemning them for lax action.

However ........ to go through drawers? No way. Wrong, wrong, wrong. To look in closets? Okay cuz a person (a bad guy) could hide in there.

Here are some other things that the police could reasonably assume **might** possibly be going down:

The woman who answered the door was, by her account, trying to block the police from going in. As a cop, you have to ask 'why'?

Was the woman who answered the door a mother with a kid being held hostage in a closet by a bad guy?

Was the woman who answered the door a battered spouse who's husband was there, hiding, after threatening her with, say, a knife?

Anything **could** have been happening. The cops have a duty to make sure that is NOT the case.

As to their overall demeanor, from the story as posted, it seems it was over the top. But that's just one side of the story. However, as I assume the cops really got a 911 call for that address, I'm also willing to assume the woman's account is generally accurate.

I'd be on the horn to the local PD.

[LiberalUprising]

49. A clarification: The police did not look in drawers

From the statement

"Officer Joe and Officer Jack proceed to search the house opening closets and doors and peering in with their flash lights."

Just wanted to clarify that point.

Thanks to all for the advice, I'll pass this thread on to my friend.

[leveymg]

58. You're right - that was a hypothetical. Sorry about any confusion.

[Ready4Change]

44. Call the station, find out the specifics.

Get this, and your objections, on record. Crank 911 calls happen. But the officers actions after the fact are bad news for any police department worth its salt.

Entering your residence without your permission is questionable in these circumstance. Opening and searching drawers is DEFINITELY suspect. Not providing an explanation, names or badge numbers, especially when requested, is downright damning. These officers are either doing CYA after being misled into acting overly aggressive, or were doing wrong right from the get go.

If there was a 911 call, they should be investigating who it came from. If there was NO 911 call, these officers need to be investigated themselves.

EDIT: On a re-read of the original post I see they searched rooms and closets, NOT drawers. Given the nature of the event, sounds like they were searching incase someone was hiding, either the person who made the call, or a person threatening the caller.

Still, the last of explanation, and refusal to provide names/badge numbers, is still troubling.

[LisaL]

53. You are lucky they haven't tasered you.

:silly:

[TriMetFan]

60. After reading some of the anti-cop posts just remember one thing...

When you need them they will come to help you and they don't question if they should put their lives on the line for you. It is way to easy to bash cops. So if you hate cops that much don't call them when you need them. Also I'm not saying that there are not bad apples in law enforcement, but there are ways to get to the bottom of this.
Again this person should ask his/her friend if they have some one that hates them that much to have made a prank call. Also call the Precinct and find out who the cop were and see if she can get a tape of the call. But to lump all cops into one group is wrong. Cops put their lives on the line every single day for you and me and get paid shit for doing it.

[cestpaspossible]

76. LOL

"When you need them they will come to help you and they don't question if they should put their lives on the line for you."

I guess if you are a guest star on 'T.J.Hooker' that's true.... in the real world it is total bullshit.


If you call the police, you are considered just as much a suspect as the person you are calling to report. That is reality.

[AX10]

93. Sadly true.

[TriMetFan]

103. O.k. have you ever been a cop?

I have and I have put my live on the line for people like you that think cops are the bad guy. Like I said there are some bad apples, but not all cops are bad. And if you had read my post I gave this person the tools he needs to help his friend with. Now it up to them to get this fixed. Also who in the hell do you call when you are in trouble (raped, stab, beaten etc.)?

[cestpaspossible]

109. Ever been beaten by a cop for absolutely no reason?

Arrested without explanation and subsequently released without apology? I have and therefore I don't respect people simply because they wear a police uniform. They have to earn that respect like anyone else.

Cops are human beings just like the rest of us. Power corrupts and police wield power. Therefore, without some type of proactive system to counteract that corrupting influence, the vast majority of cops will succumb. To give one example, they will almost always defend the actions of another cop, almost as a reflex, regardless of the facts of the case.

This thread is a perfect example.

[TriMetFan]

119. I have been stopped just because of my skin color.

And I turn the dumb ass in!
The Cop stopped me and I kept my hands on the wheel . When he ask for my reg. and licn. I gave them to him and I ask very kindly why I had been stopped. He would not give a answer, but I knew why. I was drive a brand new max-out Ford Truck and I'm American-Mexican. (Color of skin=Dark) When the guy didn't right me a ticket or anything I again ask why he had stopped me and that when the guy told me to get going. Will I took on to myself at that time to pull out my badge and I informed the ass hole that cops like him made our jobs hard them they had to be.

Again like I said before not all cops are bad. And when I was one I wouldn't have thought about twice to my live on the line for some one that needed it.

[cestpaspossible]

125. So the answer to my question is NO. Try it sometime

and see how it affects your attitude.

[TriMetFan]

259. Now again there are good cop and there are bad cops.

There are good doctors and there are bad doctors.
There are good dads and there are bad dads.
And I can go on and on and on. I'm sorry if you got your ass beat by a cop or cops but that doesn't mean that all cops are bad. Just like the cop that stop me because of my skin color.
Its just gets me mad that you are willing to lumb all cops into the same pile of shit with the bad one's. I hope that you never need a cop to help you out, becuase you would seam to be the type to find something to bitch about on how they helped you out.
That all I got to say about this.

[cestpaspossible]

361. What you said about me is untrue.

I never "lumped all cops into the same pile of shit with the bad one's" - that characterization of my comments is utterly false and in no way a reflection of anything I've actually said.

But I don't believe the problem has anything to do with 'bad cops', rather the problem is with a system that does not provide the police with proper training or citizen oversight and does not recognize or take into account the psychological hazards of the job.

[AX10]

268. Hold on there! We are not saying that "ALL" police are bad.

I don't know where you are getting this from! :eyes:

We are addressing the issue of two things:
-Constitutional Rights (4th Amendment)
-The Few "bad apples"

[TriMetFan]

107. I meant to answer this part of your post.

"If you call the police, you are considered just as much a suspect as the person you are calling to report. That is reality"


Do you know why that is?

The reason is that there are to many people out there that are chicken shits when it comes to killing them selfs and they would rather have the cops do it for them or the person is faking it to do harm to the cop because they hate cops.

[cestpaspossible]

111. I notice that you are not disputing what I said.

Indeed, if you are the victim of a crime, let's say a petty burglary, the kind that the police don't really investigate, all you are doing by calling the police is putting yourself in jeopardy of getting in trouble over some law you may not even know you are breaking.

The police are not there to help you -- that is a total myth. They are there to enforce the law.

[AX10]

269. In the case of "suicide by cop", I do not believe that the person...

hates the police, it's just that they are too scared to kill themselves.
So they manufacture a percieved threat against the officer in order to make the officer pull their gun on them (suicidal subject).
In this case, the Taser gun is the perfect solution. Disarm the person and arrest them! Why should an officer have a murder on his/her head.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

133. TJHOOKER

bwahahahah!

[cestpaspossible]

146. Now those were some cops you could trust.

They were there to help no matter what the law said!

[AX10]

285. KICK

[AX10]

77. That's not the point. Should they be allowed to escalate....

to this level under the circumstances. What if they pulled a Taser on them. It hurts like hell! Cops don't have that right.

[Jersey Devil]

79. get "paid shit for doing it"? LOL, around here cops make 100G

Hell, a patrolman on the job for 5 years in my county makes 70-80G.

But no matter what they get paid and no matter how much they are helpful, is that any excuse for treating the public like crap?

[AX10]

81. Police make that much in New Jersey. Interesting.

I do agree that police have no right to us like shit. They are public servants. This person was respectful. The cops were out of line.

[TriMetFan]

112. Again there are bad apples in ever job and if

ya'll would have read the post I gave this person the tools on how they can help their Friend. Are you going to tell me their are no bad apples in job? Just remember that when you pick that phone up because you think some one is trying to break into your home it is going to be a cop that show up to help.

Again there is no job that there are no bad apples. Also if you guys would have read my first post I also said that I would not have acted like that guy. But NOOOOOOO you guys like putting all cops in the same shit pile with the the rotten apples.

[cestpaspossible]

117. But not every job is subject to the corrupting influence of power.

When they are kids in school, they learn Lord Acton's dictum:

Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely

but when people grow up and wield power, somehow they think it does not apply to them... it's all about a few 'bad apples'...

[AX10]

281. It is about a few bad apples.

20% or so.

The problem is that the government holds power that can be used against us. It is only in our best interests as citizens to demand a balance exist. We do have right to exist freely.

[AX10]

272. I am NOT "putting all cops in the same shit pile".

Those are your words. I have always had calm and polite interactions with the police. Not that I have trouble with the law (perfect driving record :bounce:), but you see them in the store and we have had trouble before. Never once, in my town, has an officer acted in such an obscene and unprofessional way. Now one time in NYC, I was asking for directions and the cop just pushed me aside.

I would expect a certain level of professionalism from the police. That we can agree on.

[Mairead]

92. They're being PAID for their work, so don't give us the 'don't call them'

They're not doing anyone a FAVOR by responding, they're doing their JOBS. And part of that job is to treat people with respect.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

140. exactly!

don't like the fuckin job. . FUCKIN QUIT!!!

[TriMetFan]

295. I did "FUCKEN QUIT"

1. I got sick of dealing with low scum ass holes that all they did was cry for help and then when you try to help they get in your face because your doing your job.
2. Got sick of dealing with child molesters. (daddy, grandpa, priest etc..)
3. Got sick of being one of the few that could speak both english and spanish and having my MDT(car computer) over loaded with calls that seamed I was the only one that could deal with them, cause I was the only one on duty at that time that could speak spanish.
So yeah I "FUCKEN QUIT"! I'm so glad I did because I sure as hell was starting to hate the job and I knew I was not that type of person and I was not going to let ass holes bring me down. I'm a very happy Transit Driver now here in Portland and I find it very funny to have some of the same jerks that I busted get on my bus and they freak,because they know they can't get away with shit on my bus. But I will say I do miss working with the kids, but it is nice to run into them now that some have made it to adult hood and to know I made a difference in their lives. I'm also sorry if most of you have had a hard time with cops, but most are not ass holes. I sure as hell was not, no matter how much I had started to hate the job.

[noiretextatique]

113. oh please...criticizing asshole cops has nothing to do with god cops

you sound like the "with us or against us" folks. i have had great experiences with great cops, and bad experiences with asshole cops.

[cestpaspossible]

148. But the knee-jerk response to any criticism of cops

should raise a warning flag to those who doubt the existence of the 'Blue Wall of Silence'.

[noiretextatique]

158. no shit

and i am not talking about the retired officer in this thread, or the ones currently on the force, though i know what you mean.
but...some of the more over-zealous police defenders here find nothing at all wrong with a policeman tasering a handcuffed little girl, for example. i think even the police officers here agreed the cop in this account was rude.

[cestpaspossible]

188. And

all I did was disagree with the narrow point that they 'had probable cause' and the next thing I'm labelled 'a police hater'.... :eyes:


...and no, imho this does not qualify as 'exigent circumstances' either

[noiretextatique]

197. true...

hence my first post :D
some people just don't have the experiences with police that others do, e.g., driving while black/brown. as i was telling a friend of mine recently, in the area where i grew up the police were a considered a danger to one's well-being. during the 80's in LA when the war on drugs was in full-swing, innocent people died because police mistakenly rammed the wrong house.
i've had many unpleasant experiences with police and so have many people i know.
on the other hand, i have been the victim of crimes, and a witness to others, and i met some really great, very professional cops.
i am not sure about the exigent circumstances in this case, but i am sure that the cop in the story was acted like jerk and should be reprimanded.

[AX10]

276. That I agree with.

The "Blue Wall of Silence", while not existent throughout the entire Police community, occupies a VERY LARGE part of it. Even some of the better police may succumb to it (peer pressure).

[Kraklen]

61. My advice-

go down to the station and file a complaint. They may have been legal by coming in, but I think depending on the state they are required by law to tell you their name and badge number.

Anyway, go down to the station and they'll help you out. They'll know who "Joe" is, and if that's not his real name then he'll be in even deeper shit. There'll be a police report that you can use to identify them too.

Filing a complaint won't do anything in and of itself. But if these guys ever shoot an unarmed black man, or some such thing, they'll have complaints to look into.

[screembloodymurder]

65. In the future don't open the door.

Ask for a warrent and keep the door locked.

[0rganism]

67. No apology is necessary, but a thorough investigation of the caller is

If I were your friend, I'd be a lot less interested in how the cops responded than in who placed that 911 call in the first place. Your friend has apparently attracted a rather vicious sort of practical joker, and she needs to make that her primary concern.

[cestpaspossible]

68. You should have let them break down the door.

you are under no legal obligation to obey police orders in your own home. If they'd forcibly entered the premises you'd have a stronger case.

[djg21]

237. Please provide a citation.

Let me save you the trouble. You can't because it's pure bullshit.

If the cops receive a 911 call from a home and no one answers the door, they very well may be within their rights to enter the home through forcible means.

[lateo]

74. No it wasn't legal.

But good luck taking them to court. I had a similar situation with some asshole cops in Mississippi and the judge ruled in their favor. Mostly because the cops LIED UNDER OATH.

[AX10]

80. This is why people don't trust them.

The system is designed to favor them. It's not fair and it's not just.

[bobbieinok]

83. apology seems necessary......but what if there had been a killer there

and she had been told to send the cops away or everyone would be killed??

or if she had a child who was being held hostage and she must send police away???

or have I read too many mysteries??

I would have wanted them to search but with a protecting demeanor not 'you're our enemy' demeanor

some discussion with police chief and possible training sessions on how to interact with private citizens seem in order

[bhunt70]

85. everyone hates a cop until you need one. these people get shot at for you.

They may have been rude but in the end of the day they put their lives on the line to keep you safe. Sure, there are some power hungry cops who abuse their power but in general these are people who risk life and limb when you need it.

Call the precinct and report their bad attitude because it could have been much better, other than that I don't see the point in calling the aclu, suing them, or hiring a lawyer.

[AX10]

88. I'd sue them. From a CELL PHONE call....

they barge into a house and begin searching everywhere. That is NOT law enforcement, that's a cop with an unprofessional attitude.

[bhunt70]

91. you sue the grocery store clerk or waiter with an unprofessional attitude?

[AX10]

94. Unlawful entry.

[bhunt70]

95. there have been many posts stating that it may not be unlawful

depending on state law.

[cestpaspossible]

96. Those posts are from people not acknowledging that it was a cell call.

Intentional obtuseness, I'd call it.

[bhunt70]

100. well, I don't know the regulations behind that either but

would you rather them take the chance that the house was empty?

If I'm a cop and I get a call from 911 reporting a call from a cell phone was terminated after they gave the house address, I could easily envision someone hiding in the closet or in the basement under duress.

Like I said, the rudeness should be reported but I'd rather a cop be safe than sorry in a case that COULD involve someones life.

[cestpaspossible]

104. I'm talking about the law, the Bill of Rights,

not what someone would 'rather'....

But if you're gonna put it that way, sure, I'd 'rather' that in order to force their way into someone's home, the police need more than an anonymous tip that some unspecified event is happening there. As in, real probable cause that a crime is being committed or someone's life or property is in danger.

[bhunt70]

106. what I think you are missing is that an anonymous 911 call to a residency

would have to be looked at as a possibility that someone's life or property is in danger.

Seriously, do you think the cops should treat all non-frantic cop calls as pranks and take their time to get there or better yet, just ignore it?

They have to look at these things as worst case scenarios because if they don't and they are wrong then people lose their stuff, get hurt, or die.

[cestpaspossible]

115. I'm trying to parse your sentence but it seems meaningless.

"an anonymous 911 call to a residency"

wtf is that supposed to mean? 911 calls go to the 911 center, and this wasn't a call from a residence, it was a call from a cell phone.


Do you think that if I call 911, and say there is an emergency at your home, the police should have the right to break in? If so, PM me your address and I'll call right now.

The question is whether the cops had probable cause to enter the residence and the answer is no.

[bhunt70]

120. what don't you understand about anonymous?

A call from a cell phone where someone gives an address but leaves no name. anonymous.

If you call 911 and there is an emergency at my home then yes, I'd like the cops to come in. If there is no emergency but they say they got a call I'd let them in anyway, I don't have a problem with authority and I realize that most likely they are acting in my best interest.

If they cuff me, hit me or my wife, kick my cats or take my property for no reason then we have a problem. If they ask to come in because they had a 911 call from a cell phone my answer would be "be my guest".

What you don't seem to understand is that if you call the cops and tell them to come to my house for no reason, you are breaking the law, not me, not the cops. They are doing their job.

If they are rude, I'll take that up as a seperate issue, but entering my house because they wanted to be sure everything was ok...where's the problem?

I'm not even a fan of cops but hell, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and I have had my fair share of run in's with cops.

Like I said, everyone likes a cop when you need a cop. Generalizing about their nefarious nature because of bad cops is just that...a generalization.

[cestpaspossible]

123. I don't understand how you can have a 911 calll to a residence.

Or 'to a residency' whatever that means.

As I stated, 911 calls go to the 911 center.

if you are going to respond to my posts, I think you should extend the courtesy of pretending to actually respond to what I'm saying.

"If you call 911 and there is an emergency at my home then yes, I'd like the cops to come in."

I think you are deliberately mistating what I said, therefore, I'm not going to bother to repeat myself.

[bhunt70]

127. maybe im missing the point but it seems you are hung up on the

fact that it was a cell phone call. I don't see how that's different from any other notification that there is an emergency. If my neighbor hears screaming through my basement windows and calls the police to my residency then the police would treat that the same as if I called 911 myself, would they not?

when I mean the call was made to a residency I mean that the police were called/alerted/notified about a situation at a residency. not that tough.

I don't really care what you think about cops to tell you the truth, I just hope when you need a cop one will actually be there for ya. To me the automatic dismissal of certain people with certain professions based on generalizations or bad eggs, are a bit immature.

[cestpaspossible]

136. yeah you are.

The cops came to the house saying they had received a 911 call from that house. But it turns out that wasn't true. Later, they admitted that they'd received cell phone call that gave the house address and phone number and then hung up.


If you can't see the distinction, I can't help you.


I hope if you ever call the police for 'help', it works out for you... peace.

[msrbly]

124. I don't know if you understand the right to privacy

If the cops do not have probable cause to be in your home and they ask to come inside anyway, it is your right to either say yes or no. That's very kind and trusting of you to say yes, I on the other hand, would rather say no and that is my right to do so.

Let the police "be your guests." They won't be mine.

[bhunt70]

130. of course I understand it, but there is a difference between an

emergency call being received and them just dropping by because they thought they'd check me out.

[Rich Hunt]

173. WRONG

Like...maybe they should ask the person at the door what the problem is. Even if the person answering the door was one of the "bad guys", it would still give the police time to assess the situation.

I mean, come on. This is just bad policing, period.

But as I said before, I think these guys were phonies, so it's funny to see people on both sides ranting and raving as if that weren't a possibility.

[BiggJawn]

101. "Clerks or Waiters" don't have the tools to kill you with.

Cops DO. AND, they have some authority to use those tools.

There's a buttload of diferenct between some snotty loser with a corkscrew and a beligerent cop with a gun...

[bhunt70]

108. being rude does not show the intent to kill.

edit - and the difference between a waiter and a cop is that most likely the cop has been trained to use force, and when not to. The waiter doesn't have that training but could kill you all the same.

[noiretextatique]

116. assholes are rude, and a badge doesn't excuse it

we all have bad days, and i'm sure police officers have more than many. that still doesn't excuse being rude to the people who pay your salary, especially whn you are invading someone's home. as we all know, the police make mistakes just like everyone else.

[bhunt70]

121. I agree, like I said, their rudeness should be brought up w/ their supers.

[BiggJawn]

153. I'd be more afraid of the Sommelier...

He has that knife for cutting the foil, after all...

If the waiter kills me, he goes to trial, and maybe prison.

If the cop kills me, the review board smacks his ass with the whitewash brush, rules it "justified" and sends him back out into the street.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

145. i've never had a store clerk pound at my door and demand entry

but if i had, yes i would sue them too:)

[noiretextatique]

114. people get paid to do all kinds of work

everyone hates the profession i do...until they need me. unlike civil servants, if i am an asshole, i won't get clients.

[Bethany Rockafella]

99. They were there to protect her.

But once they saw the coast was clear, they could have done the professional thing and apologized. And she in return should have accepted it and went back to bed.

[Guaranteed]

212. Looking through drawers? nt

[Saphire]

118. My 2 year old called 911 once, and hung up. They didn't come

to my house, but called me back and asked if everything was o.k. I thought that was strange.

[msrbly]

122. No probable cause in Michigan

"The test of reasonableness of search without warrant is whether officer making it had, prior to search, knowledge of such facts or reasonable cause to believe existence of such facts as would amount to the probable cause which is made a prerequisite to issuance of search warrant, and an anonymous information does not meet such test. Const. art. 2, § 10." People ex rel. Roth v. Younger, 327 Mich. 410, 42 N.W.2d 120, 121 (1950)

I guess the answer to the question of whether there was probable cause to enter the house depends. It depends on which state it happened in. If it happened in Michigan there was no probable cause.

That being said, if nothing was seized, no charges were brought and no one was arrested, the homeowner has no recourse (other than to complain and request an apology). If, on the other hand, the warrantess search without probable cause (or under other circumstances) resulted in an arrest then the recourse would be suppression of the evidence seized. The plain sight rule (any thing in plain sight is fair game for cops) only applies if the cops have lawful right to be where they are when they see whatever they see in plain sight.

That's the short answer.

[SouthernDem2004]

139. Look up exigent circumstances.

http://www.lectlaw.com/def/e063.htm

This is the legal basis for entry on 911 hangups.

Peace

[cestpaspossible]

200. A cop would NEVER EVER LIE about whether there were exigent circumstances.

It just couldn't happen, could it?

[SouthernDem2004]

235. That is not relevant to the discussion at hand. /nt

[cestpaspossible]

301. I don't agree.

[Guaranteed]

214. Would have to be reliable information, though.

A call from a cell phone?

[SouthernDem2004]

236. Yes, that is good enough.

We are not talking about a full search of a residence. Officers just enter to look for people and to check on their welfare.

[Guaranteed]

239. It's essentially an anonymous tip.

And we're talking about entering someone's home, where typically you need a warrant without their consent.

An anonymous tip from a cell phone is exigent circumstances? They can't trace the call back to the residence to corroborate the information.

[SouthernDem2004]

249. Afriad their are no perfect solutions.

Its basicly a damned if we do, damned if we don't. We choose to err on the side of safety and public welfare.

[Guaranteed]

250. But people have rights. If police can't find their solution within the

law, they can't find one at the expense of innocent people, like the lady above.

[SouthernDem2004]

254. Ah but it is within the law. The Officers mentioned did not violate any

law.
They may have been rude and certainly were if the text mentioned was accurate but they operated within the law.

[Guaranteed]

257. Then what's the "there's no perfect solution" stuff?

I said that it was essentially an uncorroborated, anonymous tip, which would not justify a forced police search of a house.

The police's actions violated the 4th Amendment rights of the house's owner.

[SouthernDem2004]

261. But it didn't...

The no perfect solution was in reference to the Police not entering and someone being injured in the residence or Police entering and annoying an innocent resident.

The Supreme Court disagrees with you I am afraid.

Peace

[Guaranteed]

270. No, the Supreme Court agrees with me on anonymous tips.

Alabama v. White (1990) held that *corroborated* anonymous tips, in light of the "totality of the circumstances" (Illinois v. Gates), can give *reasonable suspicion* to STOP a person suspected of a crime.

We both know that the authority to enter someone's HOUSE is much, much higher than simple reasonable suspicion. We're talking probable cause, PLUS some, without a warrant, to enter without consent.

Those police were nowhere near justified by the law in entering that house. All they had was a suspicious call from a cell phone that was totally uncorroborated. Nowhere near cause for forcible entry into a house. By Alabama v. White, they didn't even have reasonable suspicion.

[SouthernDem2004]

274. The cases you are citing are not relevant to the issue at hand.

They do not apply to the topic of discussion here.

The topic here falls more under exigent circumstances due to the welfare concern. You cases do not apply and are about a different subject matter.

Peace

[Guaranteed]

279. No, the entire circumstance was created by the phone call,

which was essentially an anonymous tip. Alabama v. White applies directly. All of the information came from that person on the cell phone. It's about the reliability of the information.

I find it very hard to believe that an uncorroborated anonymous tip could actually provide probable cause AND exigent circumstances.

On edit: Minnesota v. Olson held that, "in the absence of hot pursuit there must be at least probable cause to believe that one or more of the other factors justifying entry were present and that in assessing the risk of danger, the gravity of the crime and likelihood that the suspect is armed should be considered."

While the risk of danger in this situation is "very high" *cough*, there is no cause for the entry in that the information ITSELF was dubious and uncorroborated. There was no REAL reason to believe that something was going on in the house, in particular at the point where the woman answered the door and there was nothing happening!

[SouthernDem2004]

283. Well you are entitled to your opinion. I can only tell you how it is

actually done.

Peace

[Zhade]

321. Well, you can SAY you know how it's done.

Considering some posters have corrected you on the law...I'd go with the actual law over your alleged professional status.

[SouthernDem2004]

333. Name one correction? Entering on a 911 is legal.

People may not like it but that does not change the fact that it is legal. Not one person has cited any case or law that prohibits exigent circumstance warrantless entries.

Some people mention case law that does not apply. There is not a single law or case law that prohibits 911 welfare entries.

[djg21]

264. It doesn;t take into account Qualified Immunity.

Show me a US Sup. Ct. Case that says a 911 call does not provide probable cause. Otherwise, an police officer in any state is entitled to QI and the complaint is dismissed on a 12(b)(6) motion.

[LifeDuringWartime]

135. if somebody called 911 with a cell phone, they can be traced

ask the police department where the call originated.

[SouthernDem2004]

143. We can not do that.

Yes, Dispatch has the number but in order to get name and address of the caller we have to subpoena the records from the cellular company. They will not come off the info without an order.

[AX10]

277. Now that's screwed up! You can't get the phone records without...

a subpoena but you can enter a house without one. :wtf:?

[Rich Hunt]

138. now wait a minute

I see people here defending the actions of the "police" (because there ARE imposters out there who pose as police officers who do these kinds of things - sorry, but this sounds like one of those "imposter" cases I read about in the papers).

Fact is, I DID call 911 once from my sister's apartment building, because these creepy guys had been stalking both of us, and I had received an e-mail earlier in the week that appeared to me to be a veiled threat. I went to check on my sister, who said she'd either be home that morning or she'd leave the deadbolt unlocked if she needed to go to the store.

I knocked on her door, and there was no answer, nor did I hear her dog, which was HIGHLY unusual, since he usually comes to the door when I call him. I tried calling her on her cell phone several times and got no response. I tried for about an hour to find her. Since there had been stalking and threats made toward us, and her apartment and my apartment had obviously been "accessed", I called 911, fearing the worst - injury to either her or the dog.

The cops did NOT use this as an excuse to break down the door or go through the entire apartment. They asked me a few questions about our situation, and they talked to the building manager about getting the key so that we could go into the apartment. Then we went in together, just to make sure everything was okay (she was not home & the dog was hiding behind the furniture).

As it turned out, she was okay - she had "disappeared" for a couple of hours without telling me. But it goes to show that the cops should remain calm and ask questions first, and that anyone who says they should barge in and tear the place apart like they did in this story is simply nuts.

There are "false alarms" all the time, not to mention situations that aren't as severe as they first appeared, and the cops should know this (in fact, I'm sure most of them do).

[TrueAmerican]

154. Your friend should

thank those officers for showing up in a timely fashion and being presistent to check out the house for bad guys. Your friend owes an apology to the officers doing their job. 911 is an emergency call, the officers have probable cause by the call alone. It's the same if the officer was passing the house and a neighbors tells them they heard screams of help coming from there. The officers are obligated to check it out. If they DIDN'T, you HAVE A LAWSUIT for lack of response on their part.

So have your friend call the officers up and offer an apology.

Bash away. ;)

[Name removed]

161. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TrueAmerican]

172. So officer can tell

if a person is half asleep, drugged, or happen to be in shock because their life or a love ones life is threaten?

You give too much credit to the Police and not enought credit at the same time.

[Name removed]

180. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TrueAmerican]

190. Instincts?

Now I heard it all. Officers are suppose to trust their instincts and just move along?

[Name removed]

194. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Rich Hunt]

290. that's not what I said

Too bad it now looks that way.

Good thing I have a blog. ;)

[barb162]

174. no bash here. If there was a call the officers have to go in and

check and see if anyone is hurt, etc. This recently happened to a relative of mine whose 2 year old kid called 911 and only breathed heavily into the phone. The cops came checked their entire house. Everyone thought it was funny; the kid thought it was great. She proceeded to do it 2 more times over the next month.

[Rich Hunt]

195. yeah but

They don't have to use force (the person at the door was willing to comply) and they don't have to be bullies about it.

Tell me, was this alleged abuser hiding in an underwear drawer.

I've seen this "flooding" tactic countless times on DU.

Perhaps one of the good "old-timers" here can help us all out by posting the original story, because it appears that 80% of the dittoheads on this thread haven't read it.

[barb162]

207. "flooding"

???

Missing your point here. I can see why they were carefully checking rooms, closets, etc to see if somebody was hiding like a robber. When the cops don't know if a potential danger (eg.,person with a gun) is hiding behind a bedroom door, you can see why they might be a bit gruff.

[AX10]

282. You're too kind. The cop was out of line.

What if there really was a crisis, should the cop be escalating it? Hell NO!

[Rich Hunt]

292. thanks

I'm sorry, but having known too many good cops, and having cops in my family, I hate to see this unprofessional conduct defended. But I have to be careful about being "less than kind", I guess.

[Kraklen]

251. Quite the opposite.

The officers may have had an obligation to investigate the call.

They also have an obligation to treat the OP with all the respect they can muster.

The police swore to serve and protect the OP. They didn't do that.

And if they can't, they don't belong in uniform.

[AX10]

273. Ding Ding Ding.

That is the truth.

[Vinca]

165. I don't know the legalities, but he owed you an apology.

You, on the other hand, should be grateful there's such a persistant pain in the ass on the police department that he wouldn't just say "Oops, sorry," and go on his merry way without verifying the situation was okay. What if a lunatic was hiding in your closet with a knife and had threatened to kill you if you gave him up after catching you on the cell phone? Cops make mistakes, no doubt about it, but sometimes you have to let it slide.

[Rich Hunt]

185. oh yeah, plausible

Okaaayyy...there's a lunatic in your closet, but you don't know it.

However, just to be safe, you call 911 without your knowledge, and during a nap so that the police can push their way into the house and go through your drawers. Or are the neighbors so psychic that they call 911 on your behalf because they saw an intruder going into your house. Well, how kind of them to not call you to let you know to get the hell out of the house.

These excuses get more preposterous the longer the thread gets.

I think some people may have struck a nerve.

As I said, these guys were clearly imposters (assuming that the original post is not a fiction), but lots of people here seem to be ignoring that.

[TrueAmerican]

191. As the orginal poster pointed out

They did not go into anyones drawers. Admit it, you hate cops.

[Name removed]

202. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MindPilot]

246. It's possible these guys were impostors

but usually people who impersonate cops do so to in commission of another crime. From the story that didn't appear to happen, no rape, no robbery, no assault.

I would also imagine that if impostor cops showed up there would be a "look and feel" that wouldn't be there; a sense that these guys don't fit. Not to mention that cruiser that wouldn't be sitting out front.

And if anyone has reason to suspect there are impostor cops banging on your door, make a quick 911 call from your cell. With a little luck the real police won't dismiss it as a prank.

[Rich Hunt]

288. I said before

I don't hate cops. I hate imposter cops.

Apparently, this statement is too inflammatory for some people, because I can no longer find my retort to this accusation.

:eyes:

[Joey Liberal]

179. They were out of line

Those cops sounded rude. You should go to their Chief. That way, you can work it out and everyone will be happy. If the Chief doesn't take care of it, go to your town/city council.

[ScamUSA.Com]

184. welcome to the way things are

worse goes on all the time.

might as well be grateful you didn't get tazered or taken to the hospital in an ambulance for psych eval and let it go

[NoSheep]

187. I'm sure that was an awful experience. I do think they should have

offered an apology but I can understand that they felt they were arriving at the scene of wrongdoing. Had no idea if you had a gun to your head behind the door or what. A terrible mistake, but a mistake, nonetheless. I am glad you have a police dept that responds, but it sucks because you could have been doing anything in your private home and they just came barging up. I think it sounds like an incredibly unfortunate circumstance that probably does not happen very often. If they had been deliberately harassing you, I would sue the pants off them. But it does just seem like an unfortunate mistake and I'm glad you didn't suffer any "lingering consequences" from the intrusion. I hope you can come to terms with this. An apology would have seemed, at the very least, the NICE thing for them to do.:hi:

[Mairead]

307. "it does just seem like an unfortunate mistake"

Not to me. To me it seems like a deliberate set-up. Once it was clear that the call was a fraud, the cop should have--at a minimum!--'switched sides' and started focussing on the fraud call. That he didn't raises the suspicion that the 'call' might never have occurred.

[Zhade]

322. Great point.

NT!

[NoSheep]

342. I read the OP but did not learn the call had been determined a fraud

before the police showed up.

[RebelOne]

193. Your experience is similar to an incident

in Dean Koontz's new book "Velocity." I think I would have been totally freaked out if I thought that 911 call came from my number. Read the book and you will see what I am talking about.

[Rich Hunt]

205. like the cops don't know

That people use 911 all the time for pranks and harassment, not to mention tying up the lines.

Please.

[kymar57]

238. OK all you legal eagles

Just out of curiosity. Circumstances the same. cell phone hangup citing trouble at address. Police arrive. Homeowner meets them on the porch. tries to deny access but police insist. Upon gaining access against the will of said homeowner and without a warrant or any external signs of trouble, the police search the house and find nothing amiss except for the small hydroponics pot farm in the basement closet. This is merely a hypothetical for the legalistas that may be out there
:hippie: :hippie: :hippie: :hippie:

[ScamUSA.Com]

244. arrest, legal bills, trial, aquittal

[MindPilot]

248. yep, that's the trade-off

[SouthernDem2004]

255. Actually more like... Secure residence, wake up judge, get warrant,

arrest, trial, guilt, jail.

[ScamUSA.Com]

258. yep

also likely

[AX10]

284. Then I should have the right to deny them entry to my house.

[The Doctor.]

215. That's harrasment... but not by the police...

The apology is owed by the individual who made the call.

This happened to my wife and I a few years back. The police showed up at our door several times in two days saying they recieved reports of child abuse, but since the caler called the station and not 911, they had no idea who it was.

If this person dialed 911 from their cell, the victim here can sue for harassment. Police generally don't like being used to harrass people either.

The police may have been rude, but they are not at fault as far as I know.

[pinto]

217. Sometimes, in long threads, people can get sidetracked, especially

if the topic is of interest to a lot of members, and, duh, gets a lot of response. Sometimes the discussion gets hot. That's to be expected, no? Just want to encourage members to maintain our reputation for civility. Sorry to jump in here, thanks. pinto

[1932]

218. They need a warrant to come into the house unless a warrant exception

rule applies, which is usually hot pursuit, or something like that.

A hang-up cell phone call to 9/11 where the person gives an address and no more information might not qualify as a warrant exception. I would assume they'd have to say something like, "he's going to kill me" or "oh my god, he has a gun."

But, guess what? There's nothing you can do about warrantless searches. It'd be nice if innocent people could sue for damages when their privacy is violated. However, the only remedy for a warrantless search is that you get the evidence they discover thrown out of court. If you're not even going to court, that's not much consolation.

Oh, and there's no "police apology" requirment in the constitution either.

Maybe you could have a complaint filed in the cop's personnel files, but do you really want to get on the bad side of cop like that?

Instead, I'd petition my congresspeople for a law that gave innocent people money damages in these situations.

[dogday]

227. The police are being trained to deal with us like we are

terrorist. They are getting terrorist training and using it against the public. The tasers are just one of the examples of the abuse of their power. It used to be that officer would subdue a person, try to pin them down, now they just taser them. I feel that is wrong.

Our rights are being trampled to death concerning the police and what they are allowed to do. But last I looked a person should be able to be secure in their home without anyone coming in.

[AX10]

266. What is most decerning is how many on the left support the...

trampling of our rights. Police are peace officers, their job is to keep the peace (so be it if they must use force).

It brings great sorrow to me to see so many "liberals" support the trampling of the US Constitution.

[Guaranteed]

298. That's the thing. You know, I support the police. But I'm

not going to let them screw me over or violate my rights.

They're there to do JUSTICE. Not fuck with people.

[writes2000]

267. Police ransacked my car. Tossed around papers in my glove compartment

After making me sit on the street for 45 minutes. Why? Because I had out of state plates. And also probably because I'm black.

They asked me several times if I had stolen the car.

When they finally realized I had not committed a crime, they let me go back to the car and it was trashed.

I told them they needed to put everything back. They tried to ignore me. I went to their car and demanded that they put everything back.

They drove off.

I went down to their station and filed a complaint. The officer there was great. Sincere and apologetic.

Sometimes all you need is a simple "I apologize."

[AX10]

280. You were assaulted because of your skin color, no question.

My condolences.

[really annoyed]

286. Similar Story Here

My story ends with an apology though.

Our phone sits on the counter in the kitchen. At about 2 AM, my mom dropped the phone on the floor when she opened the dishwasher.

About 5-10 minutes later, my mom knocks on my bedroom door. She says she hears somebody softly knocking at the front door.

She looks through the peek hole of the front door, and there are 3-4 police officers on the porch.

We opened the door, thinking something bad had happened in the neighborhood. There were police at the sidewalk and at the side of our house.

The police on the porch explained that somebody had dialed 911 from the home. The police doublechecked it with the dispatcher. It was our number.

Then one cop asks my mom, "Is your husband home, ma'am?"

My mom responded that he was snoring in the bedroom - which he was.

My mom explained that she had dropped the phone on the floor.

We must have looked shocked - the police apologized and left. They didn't ask to come in or look around. My mom said thank you to them.

Personally, it is good to know there are police officers at the ready if we had an ACTUAL emergency!

But I don't understand why the police acted that way toward your friend. But seeing that they thought it was a 911 call from the house, their actions are understandable.

[nomatrix]

300. From Fourth Amendment.com

"911 call and open line as emergency; close case, but officers could not ignore the potential dangers: State v Frankel (2004) 179 NJ 586, 847 A2d 561, aff'g (2001) 341 NJ Super 594, 775 A2d 665
("A 9-1-1 call is tantamount to a distress call even when there is no verbal communication over the telephone to describe the nature of the emergency. The responding police officer is not required to accept blindly the explanation for the 9-1-1 call offered by the resident answering the door, but must base his decision on the totality of the circumstances. Courts are loath to second-guess decisions made in good faith with the intent of protecting life when the circumstances clearly reveal a legitimate emergency that will not abide delay.").

Google search/ cache
highlighted

patriot act
police
search
emergency
911 call
resident

http://www.fourthamendment.com/secondquarter04.html

Edit
to add link
word fourth not 4th

[Mairead]

303. Your citation isn't relevant

This was from a cell phone, not the house phone, and there was no open line. It was more akin to an anonymous tip than a distress call.

[nomatrix]

341. Correct me if I am wrong

The original post states the officer said "we got a 911 call FROM THIS HOUSE"
several times.

Was it the homeowners cell phone?

Did they misplace or lose a cell phone?

E911 service on cell phones

http://www.redherring.com/Article.aspx?a=12699&hed=TechSpin%3A+Verizon+Adds+E911

"The system automatically provides emergency response operators with a VoiceWing caller’s telephone number, name, and service address. “Our VoiceWing customers in New York City now benefit from having E911 service that works as efficiently and effectively as wireline and wireless emergency calling,” said Michael Hassett, senior vice president for Verizon’s Retail Markets Group. “We are working hard to replicate the New York City arrangement in other areas so that all our VoiceWing customers can have E911 service.” When setting up or moving the service, a VoiceWing customer must register the service location either online or by calling VoiceWing customer service. If that location is in one of New York’s five boroughs, the customer’s 911 call will be routed to the New York City public safety answering point, and the caller’s phone number and address information will automatically appear on the emergency response operator’s computer screen."

I believe all cell phones have GPU's.

Sorry. I am not trying the case. I'm just pointing out "since 9-11 everything has changed" = Patriot Act

[Mairead]

343. Are you presuming that the whole story is rubbish?

If the account is accurate, then the cop first claimed the call came from the landline phone. Later he claimed the address was given over a cellphone ('The caller gave my address and phone number'). That's very different to 'a hang-up call was made from a cellphone registered to this address'. The latter situation would fit with your cite, but not the one we were given.

And if we presume that the person merely misreported what was said, then who did the phoning? Or, if the phone dialed gratuitously, why didn't we get the part of the story where they find the phone, say it's malfunctioning, and everything comes out okay? The story as related fits with the 'tipoff' scenario, but not with a 'malfunction' scenario.

So my point was that, given the situation as described, your cite wasn't relevant. Which means that either the whole story was rubbish as told or the cop was in the wrong.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

316. "But must base his decision on the totality of the circumstances"....

...which in this case did NOT merit the behavior of the police officer. There were no suspicious sounds coming from the apartment unless the occupant was snoring. There were no signs of a struggle which the officer should have noted after he forced the door open.

What happened to plain common sense that officers used to employ on a regular basis?

[nomatrix]

344. From a law enforcement point of view

What kind of response do you get from a person who answers the door of a home when there is.....
for example, domestic violence?

(A.) "I'm sure there's a mistake, but come in and look since you are here"

or

(B.) "No"

It became more suspicious when she held the door and repeated no.

Children do use cell phones. If a child is being molested by a family member or babysitter then calls 911, afraid to say how they are being violated but needs help.....

.

[TrueAmerican]

348. You are actually right

A good number of victims call 911 for help. But by the time the cops get there, they want to protect their spouse who has beaten up on them and/or the kids. You make a good point of why the cops need to be presistent in cases such as this.

[Zorbuddha]

319. Report this to the ACLU.

They would probably appreciate knowing about this, and can advise you.

[KG]

320. she lucky she didn't get tasered.

[fujiyama]

324. I doubt it was illegal

Being rude was not have been justified, but considering someone actually gave that PARTICULAR address and phone number, and depending on the nature of the call (it's not clear what the caller said), walking in was justified.

[pinto]

362. Locking.

The topic appears exhausted. Locking this extremely long thread. Thanks for your consideration.