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scarletlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 05:22 PM
Original message
Peak Oil Production--Why we attacked Iraq
Geologists and experts in the oil industry know that the world will reach its peak oil production sometime between the years 2010 - 2020. The most optimistic scenarios extend that another 20 yrs to 2040. After that the cost of oil must continually rise as it will become ever more expensive to pump out what remains.

There are more that 40000 known oil fields in the world. Of these forty are super-giant oil fields--containing more that 5 billion gallons of oil. Twenty-six of these fields are in the Middle East.
The reserve to production ratio (r/p) is the number of years that reserves of oil will last at current production rates. R/P rates are as follows: US r/p = 10/1, Norway r/p= 53/1, Saudi Arabia r/p = 55/1, United Arab Emirates r/p = 75/1, Kuwait r/p = 116/1, and in Iraq the total r/p = 526/1.

All of the above come from Jeremy Rifkin's book "The Hydrogen Economy"

The world is running out of oil soon and bushco knows it. this is his last gasp grab to what oil they can before it's over.
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the_real_38 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yes.
The most ignored fact out there - oil production is going to dip some time in the next decade, and demand is going to overtake it - Michael Klare, the author of Resource Wars, came out and accused Bush of this motivation right before the war.

We won't leave Iraq until Halliburton has upgraded their oil facilities - because that's the reason we're there.
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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thx
SGTV will adress this in their new film with interviews from Mike Ruppert and M. Meacher.

At globalfreepress.com
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beaver tamer Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Ruppert has been saying this..
..on his website fromthewilderness.com for sometime.
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
3. If You Would Like To Follow This Further
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Kick For Exposure
eom
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scarletlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Thanks
Rifkin's book is a great read. I'm very much interested into getting as many alternate energy sources open in this country as soon as we can and as quickly as we can. When you look at the stats in my post it is obvious why we invaded Iraq.
I personally believe we will reach peak oil production sooner rather than later and the disruptions to the world economy are going to be disasterous if we are not prepared.
Also bear in mind that China and India are increasingly demanding and using more oil.
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Rifkin might be too optimistic re. feasability of Hydrogen economy.
Edited on Fri Sep-26-03 06:14 PM by JohnyCanuck
I saw an interview with Rifkin a few months ago on one of the cable channels. In the interview he was really pushing for the development of a hydrogen based economy as a replacement for oil. While I'm not denying the need for research in alternative energy sources (including hydrogen), after reading this article by Mike Ruppert on some of the problems with Hydrogen as a replacement for oil, I am thinking that a switch to a hydrogen economy will be harder to implement than Rifkin implied, and even Rifkin admitted it would be an enormous project for the industrialized countries to get the infrastructure in place and operational by the time conventional oil production started to decline.


For months FTW has been besieged by misguided activists arguing that hydrogen is a real solution to the world's energy crisis. Sadly, these critics have been sold a bill of goods as deceptive and dangerous as Enron's cooked books, the intelligence "justifying" the Iraqi invasion, and oil reserve figures quoted by oil companies and government agencies. Hydrogen's problems are not difficult to understand and require little more than common sense applied to well-documented and easily understandable scientific fact.

There are no easy "magic bullet" solutions to the realities of Peak Oil and serious and irreversible natural gas shortages. Perhaps one of the most dangerous courses is to accept widely-hyped solutions without critical judgment and then waste the days and hours needed to look for real answers. Just because someone shows you a car that runs on hydrogen today, whether by burning the gas or by using a fuel cell to produce electricity, does not mean that they have shown you a solution. Spending more money or energy on a demonstration model than is produced from the resulting engine's output is a deception - nothing more.

<snip>

The basic problem of hydrogen fuel cells is that the second law of thermodynamics dictates that we will always have to expend more energy deriving the hydrogen than we will receive from the usage of that hydrogen. The common misconception is that hydrogen fuel cells are an alternative energy source when they are not.

In reality, hydrogen fuel cells are a storage battery for energy derived from other sources. In a fuel cell, hydrogen and oxygen are fed to the anode and cathode, respectively, of each cell. Electrons stripped from the hydrogen produce direct current electricity which can be used in a DC electric motor or converted to alternating current.41


www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/081803_hydrogen_answers.html

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scarletlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Read his book
Edited on Fri Sep-26-03 07:02 PM by scarletlib
I am no expert in any of this. What I do know is that we as a society can't just sit around and wait for the end. In the book Rifkin does acknowledge that there will be some difficulties and interim technologies will be needed. However, I like the overall optimistic view he offers. Clearly we must do something if for no other reason than greenhouse warming affecting the entire planet.
The US of A is going to be behind the curve if we don't get started. The European Union has already announced a major initiative in this area. The tiny nation of Iceland is planning to go all green/hydrogen by the end of the decade. (They plan to use their abundant geothermal resources to accomplish this.)

Point is that we must try. As we put our collective genius to work simpler solutions and better technologies will undoubtedly arise.

Finally, I didn't realize how much petrochemicals in the form of fertilizers are used in food production worldwide. Food production world wide will be affected by shortages.

We as a society/civilization at least have the advantage of knowing and understanding the role of fossil fuels in our economy. We have the very fortunate advantage of being able to act in advance to solve or at the very least ameliorate the coming fossil fuel shortages.
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
7. some links on Peak Oil
Edited on Fri Sep-26-03 06:18 PM by JohnyCanuck
IS THE EMPIRE ABOUT OIL? - A Response to the Naysayers By Geologist Dale Alan Pfeifer

Normally, I would not waste time and effort arguing about the motives behind the War on Terrorism -- what is most important is that we fight against this War on Terrorism. However, there is a lot more at stake here than simply greedy imperialism. The U.S. empire and modern civilization are all made possible by oil. Without it our technology would never have grown beyond coal-based industrialism. Furthermore, there are no alternative energy sources, which, considered separately or in total, can replace oil and natural gas.

As oil and natural gas production decline, so will the economy and our technological civilization. Without oil and natural gas modern agriculture will fail, and people will starve. Without oil and natural gas, industry will grind to a halt, transportation will be grounded, and people in northern climes will freeze in the winter.

Scientist Richard Duncan has created a model that has so far gone unrefuted. His model states that technological civilization cannot outlast its resource base, particularly its energy resource base. Once this resource base is exhausted, technological civilization will be forever beyond the grasp of life on a particular planet. Duncan makes his model readily available to anyone who wishes to test it in the hope that someone will be able to successfully refute the model. To date, no one has done so. (See "The Peak of World Oil Production and the Road to Olduvai Gorge" http://dieoff.com/page224.htm)

You see, there is a lot more at stake here than just a continuation of the Cold War or U.S. imperialistic greed. There is enough energy remaining in the world right now for us -- the people -- to take control and ease ourselves into a democratic, egalitarian, stable-state society. Or there is enough energy for the elite to build a feudalistic, fascist, police state with themselves at the top. This is the choice facing us right now, and this is what is truly at stake.



Colin Campbell on Oil - An interview with Colin Campbell, PhD retired geologist and oil company executive.

FTW: Will Central Asian-Caspian pipelines have an impact on the crisis? How long will it take them to come on line?

Campbell: There was talk of the place holding over 200 Gb (I think emanating from the USGS ), but the results after 10 years of work have been disappointing. The West came in with high hopes. The Soviets found Tengiz onshore in 1979 with about 6 Gb of very deep, high sulfur oil in a reef. Chevron took over and is now producing it with difficulty. But offshore they found a huge prospect called Kashagan in a similar geological setting to Tengiz. If it had been full, it could have contained 200 Gb, but they have now drilled three deep wells at huge cost, finding that instead of being a single reservoir it, like Tengiz, is made up of reefs. Reserves are now quoted at between 9 Gb and 13 Gb. BP-Statoil has pulled out. Caspian production won't make any material difference to world supply. There is however a lot of gas in the vicinity.

To put it in perspective this would supply the world for a little over a year, but it is broadly the same as U.S. potential

It is quite possible that the Afghan war was about securing a strong point in this area. But interest in it has now dwindled along with Caspian prospects as the U.S. turns to Iraq, which does have some oil. It is curious that these two U.S. military exercises had different pretexts

A) Afghanistan was to find the supposed architect of Sept. 11 -- in which it failed; and

B) Iraq is about a sudden and unexplained fear that it might develop some objectionable weapons that might pose a threat to someone in the future. North Korea, which already has nuclear weapons and long range missiles -- and isn't exactly a friendly place -- is not deemed a threat. The cynic can be forgiven for thinking there is some other motive for these military moves: could it be oil?




The optimists believe that we have 30 to 40 years until peak, however that estimate is based on oil reserves as reported in USGS reports compiled from figures supplied by governments of various oil producing countries. However, there is reason to believe that for economic reasons these countries might have been intentionally exagerating the quantities of their own reserves.

http://www.hubbertpeak.com/summary.htm

Now comes the interesting part. Many estimates been have made of the world Ultimate for oil, a recent example being the 1995 USGS global survey. The value they published was 2275 Billion Barrels (or Giga - barrels, Gb). These studies are always based on estimates of reserves taken directly from producing countries themselves. Therein lies the problem. Many OPEC countries have been announcing reserve numbers which are frankly very strange. Either their reported reserves remain the same year after year - suggesting that new discoveries exactly match production, or they have suddenly increased their reported reserves by unfeasibly large amounts. This is clearly shown in the following table:

<snip>

These data are less odd when one realises that OPEC takes into account a country’s reserves when fixing production quotas: the more oil you say you have, the more you’re allowed to sell. Additionally, oil reserves can be used as collateral for loans - an example of this is the $50 Billion loan from the USA to Mexico: in December 1994, the Mexican Peso fell by around 35%. As a result, the Mexican Central Bank's international reserves fell from $29 billion to $5 billion. To stave off a collapse of the Mexican economy, President Clinton signed a $50 billion "Emergency Stabilization Package" loan to the Mexican government on 31 January 1995. The collateral for the loan was Mexico's pledge of revenues from its future petroleum exports.

Another problem with surveys like that of the USGS (from which the US government takes its figures) is that they use very flexible definitions of the different types of oil involved when predicting the amount of oil remaining to be discovered. Briefly, these break down as follows:


Conventional Oil (95% of all oil so far produced is conventional)
Unconventional Oil
Tar Sands
Oil Shales
Oil not recoverable with today's technology


This distinction is important, because the global economy is based on cheap pumpable petroleum which comes exclusively from conventional oil: there may well be sources of unconventional oil waiting to be found (ie Canada, Antarctica) but not at today’s prices, and not today, either. This counters the argument, often put forward by oil companies, that improvements in technology will prolong the lifetime of our oil resources: the cost of oil produced by these as yet uninvented technologies is likely to be astronomical by today’s standards. It is therefore misleading not to consider these resources as separate from conventional oil.




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TorchTheWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. apparently,
we can make our own oil...

http://www.discover.com/may_03/gthere.html?article=featoil.html

Interesting article anyway. And it's not like BushCo wasn't aware of it since they sunk money into it already.
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Seems to contravene the laws of thermodynamics.
From the website they indicate that they have to input energy into the system to heat the turkey guts (or whatever organic material) to recover oil at the end. If at the end of the process the end product (oil) contains more energy available than the energy consumed to create it would seem to be contradicting the 2nd law of thermodynamics, which if I remember my high school physics said something like if you do work or expend energy some of the energy expended will always be lost and becone unrecoverable and unusable

Going back to the example of the turkey guts. Supposing you process 10,000 lbs of turkey guts and get as a result 1 barrel of oil (just pulling these figures out the air to use as an example). Now to make those turkey guts in the first place required lots of oil based energy inputs to grow the crops that produced the turkey feed (our modern methods of factory farming are extremely energy and hydrocarbon dependent). There was more energy used in transporting the feed from the grower to the turkey farmer. There was energy used by the turkey farmer in heating or cooling his turkey sheds and in other aspects of running his turkey farm. Then he had to ship the turkeys to the slaughter house. When you add up all the energy that was expended producing the turkey guts, I'd wager it was far more than the energy contained in the oil that was produced by the turkey guts at the end of this process.

As I see it the same types of issues would apply to any manufactured product that you used as inputs to create manufactured oil. According to the laws of thermodynamics you would always get out less at the end than what you put in at the beginning.

So while I could see this scheme being of some use in alleviating the oil shortages that will come as a result of Peak Oil, I can't see this scheme functioning as 100% replacement for the oil we currently derive from underground wells.
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scarletlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-26-03 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. JohnyCanuck
You really know your stuff! Rifkin discusses the laws of thermodynamics in his book as well.
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